Camera's 818C

Before I dropped the top on the car, I tied up some loose ends while everything was out in the open. I never mounted my air intake as I was waiting for the side pods/rear fender wells to be installed but now was a good time even without the fender wells. I used a 45deg silicone elbow and made a simple bracket from 1/8" aluminum bar to attach the end of the AEM intake that came on my engine. The filter sits just behind my passenger side scoop and hopefully high enough to avoid the fender liner when it goes in.

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After 9 months of hanging over my head, I finally dropped the top onto the car. This thing is hard to get into haha. I've never gotten into an 818 coupe with a steering wheel before and it is tight. I put my seat in and I have about 3 fingers of space between my head and the roof. I'm 5'9" and 155lbs. I'm not sure how you 6 footers are making the coupe work. However, my seats may be on the bigger side and since I angled the front lip to get over the cross bar, the further you scoot the seat back the lower the seat gets. So that may help. I'm also still using the Subaru steering wheel which sticks out far and has a large diameter. When I switch to a smaller wheel that should give me some more room to get in and out.

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I have a question. When the manual says to cut out the front surround for the master cylinder and use the rear hood support as a "maximum guide", how did you do that? My aluminum hood support sits in front of the master cylinder. I want to cut the front surround directly in front of the master cylinder so I can reach the cap but the aluminum is there? Does the aluminum really need to be as long as it is?

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I really like your larger side pod openings. I am 6'3" tall and fit fine but with Kirkey racing seats. Keep up the great work!

mcamera: "I have a question. When the manual says to cut out the front surround for the master cylinder and use the rear hood support as a "maximum guide", how did you do that? My aluminum hood support sits in front of the master cylinder. I want to cut the front surround directly in front of the master cylinder so I can reach the cap but the aluminum is there? Does the aluminum really need to be as long as it is?"

Maybe the right hand side of the aluminum is just a pattern for the cutout?

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Photo by tommytt.

To maintain the strength of the windshield surround, wouldn’t it be better to cut out a circle in the vertical section just large enough to get your hand into and back out of while holding the reservoir cap?

I also really like your expanded side pod opening.

RPG

I don't think the aluminum is just a pattern. The manual shows the entire piece being riveted to the surround as the rear hood support. Scott texted me yesterday and warned me that I can't use this aluminum support if I use the mono wiper as your picture shows. Now it makes sense why. I had to cut the bottom of the surround since it interfered with the corner of my master cylinder reservoir. I could have cut out less and just made a square hole like you're saying but the brake line would be close. I cut it normal to the curvature of the surround to try and eliminate pointy corners and make it look nice which I think turned out well. I'll try to keep that theme when I cut the hole larger for better access to the clutch reservoir but I started small.

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I also have a large 1/2" gap where the top and back of the door meet. If I scoot the top forward then I have a huge gap where the top and rear bumper meet. The top just seems too short and it doesn't even follow the curve of the side pod well yet which will make it seem shorter.

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My 818 hardtop has its own set of issues too. If I was giving advice I’d say to just add some glass to bring it up to flush. It’s not a visible area to anyone but you and if done correctly nobody but you will ever know unless you tell them.

Thanks for the advice Lance, that sounds like the best way to fix that area. I've spent all weekend digesting the issues with the body and I've underestimated how badly everything fits together. I thought there would be some small adjustments but not much seems to fit well. Nothing sits flat, panels interfere at every corner, my door and front fender hits the a-pillar, even the rear fenders have maxed out their adjustment range for how far they can be pushed in to meet trunk hatch. I need to cut the frame where the rear fenders bolt on, so I can slide them in a little further. I have a lot of trimming to do while trying to not make the car look like crap haha.

Did everybody else have to grind down several flanges to get the weather stripping on? The rear hatch was 3x too thick at the top corners and the top of the doorways look like they need to be thinned out also.

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I have a very similar gap issue except mine is due to the top not being able to be any further forward because the A pillar bolts are all the way forward. See photos. I just decided to roll with it for now and maybe turn it into a future project. :)

Other things I've done to get "acceptable" body fitment is cutting off a small part of the front radiator frame to allow the nose to sit straight, I ended up having to raise one of the rear fenders 1/4" and I've also pulled the rear fenders in as much as I could to get decent gaps with the hardtop. Had to really push them in a lot and the gaps still aren't perfect. One side is pretty nice, the other so-so.

As for grinding down the rear hatch flange, I didn't have to grind anything but the corners where the intercooler vents are were the tightest (like your photo shows). I did have to grind the door flanges down entirely for the flocked weatherstrip to fit.

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Originally Posted by carnutdave

I have a very similar gap issue except mine is due to the top not being able to be any further forward because the A pillar bolts are all the way forward. See photos. I just decided to roll with it for now and maybe turn it into a future project. :)

Other things I've done to get "acceptable" body fitment is cutting off a small part of the front radiator frame to allow the nose to sit straight, I ended up having to raise one of the rear fenders 1/4" and I've also pulled the rear fenders in as much as I could to get decent gaps with the hardtop. Had to really push them in a lot and the gaps still aren't perfect. One side is pretty nice, the other so-so.

As for grinding down the rear hatch flange, I didn't have to grind anything but the corners where the intercooler vents are were the tightest (like your photo shows). I did have to grind the door flanges down entirely for the flocked weatherstrip to fit.

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It's good to know I'm not the only one who has these larger fitment issues. Your car looks good! You've done a nice job pulling everything together. Like you, I have 1 rear fender that's acceptable but the other has a large 1/4" gap to the hardtop and I can see the mounting screw. They're pushed in as far as they'll go. The fender is pressed against the side of the mounting tab. I'm trying to make the smallest changes possible so I can drive the car without paint for awhile and not have big patches/cuts of fiberglass.

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Originally Posted by mcamera

...my door and front fender hits the a-pillar, even the rear fenders have maxed out their adjustment range for how far they can be pushed in to meet trunk hatch. I need to cut the frame where the rear fenders bolt on, so I can slide them in a little further. I have a lot of trimming to do while trying to not make the car look like crap haha.

Did everybody else have to grind down several flanges to get the weather stripping on?

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I ground off a fair bit of metal from the A-pillar on the roof to not interfere with the doors. Also elongated some of the bolt holes to allow the roof to be positioned a bit better. My fenders did not quite go in far enough to match up with the roof, and I was going to cut off some of the supporting plate, but then took the easy approach and hit the plate with a hammer to bend the outer portion of it down to clear the fender.

The flange around the door opening is way too thick for the weather stripping they supply. Apparently you are suppose to grind down the fibreglass. Seriously? They couldn't supply weather stripping for a 1/4" thick piece? Like several others did, I bought some with the proper size channel opening.

Some things I get really annoyed at, some just a little ticked-off.

Rick

One small step at a time. I read through the body install sticky on this forum, and that helped. I detached my rear bumper from my driver side pod and that allowed me to push the rear fender in another 1/8" to close my gap to the hardtop. I see why I couldn't push the fender in further now too. As you push the fender in, it also moves forward and my bolt was binding on the fender mount. I had to elongate the hole in the fender to allow it to move forward. I also moved the hole more towards the center of the car to hide the bolt under the hardtop. I could previously see it in the seam. The driver's side seam is much better now all the way up to the b-pillar. Still a little tight near the rear bumper so I may grind away some of the hardtop flange. The rear bumper is still cleco'd on so it'll be pulled even tighter when I eventually use bolts.

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Passenger side looks good so I'm not going to touch it. Even though it's technically 1/8" off center compared to the driver side.

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I like the push button latch supplied for the rear hatch but I wish it had a key. It seems strange to me that anybody walking by in a parking lot could open the rear hatch and mess with stuff. Thinking about this version from the same supplier (Southco) and just not using the left black piece that you hook your finger under. Feedback/alternatives are welcome.

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I like it!
And don’t start measuring the body! It will drive you batty! Just make it look right, no matter squareness, etc. mine is off side to side by the tape but all my panels join acceptably well, though I’ve modded almost every one. My main concerns were that the wheels were centered within the wheel wells, and with tires mounted, that the distance between tire and fender was equal as possible on both sides.

I've been very busy but I'm still picking away at the body. I had to slot the mounting holes for the hardtop at the a-pillar more. I cut about 1/2" out of the frame holes so I could slide the hardtop forward more. This combined with cutting some metal away on the hardtop mount allowed me to close up the a-pillar to door gap and the b-pillar to door gap. Before and afters below.

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I found an identical black version of the rear hatch latch but the first one I got was defective. I had to wait another week for a replacement. For anybody interested it's Southco part# M1-2A-13-5. I also ordered my ZDM hood hinge kit and will be using 1.5" Quick Latch mini's (part# QL-25-SB1.5) for securing my hood/hardtop. Due to the need for several keys, I've ditched the idea of having everything lockable. The door, hood, hardtop mounts (x2 sets), and rear hatch latch would all have separate keys which sounded like a pain. I'm sure somebody on here has come back to their parked car with a couple latches popped open or messed with but that's just a gamble I'll have to take.

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Your gaps are awesome.

Thanks Lance! The passenger side A-pillar didn't close up quite as well. The vertical slotted holes are maxed out but there's no use in slotting them more. The front apron is already sitting on the frame so I can't push the top lower. I also had to cut away a lot of the B-pillar so it would clear the top of the door.

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With the hardtop in its final position I went ahead and cut out the apron to clear for a couple suspension bolts and the brake/clutch reservoirs. I wanted a simple cutout shape to try and make this look normal. If you cut along the frame rails you'll end up with sharp angles and an opening with a strange shape. I'm happy with how this looks and I kept a lot of the structure.

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MCam, Blending form and function, skill and art. An access cover would disguise the cut-out and present additional fastening options.
You might not believe the lack of symmetry I struggle with on my body, but I can attribute that to it's pre CAD-CAM origin.
jim

You seem to have had a lot of body fitment issues. A lot of others have also. I am considering an 818 and have been following your thread. When you are finished do you think you'll have them all resolved? I see others with the same body problems. Are you unhappy with the 818 body? I am trying to make a decision and that is my biggest concern.

Thanks JR, a cover would be a nice finishing touch.

Hi nnolte, I have no bodywork experience so this is new and challenging for me. There are plenty of guys on here that will put in the extra work to have a nicer fit and finish. All of my issues won't be fixed when I'm done. The hardtop is where most of my trouble is coming from. I'm not sure if the convertible is better or worse. I'll still have large gaps above my doors at the a-pillar and a large gap between my hardtop and rear bumper. Those areas will need extra fiberglass to fill them in properly and have even gaps.

The body fitment is worse than I expected and it'll show when I'm done building. Nobody will mistake this for a production car in a parking lot but it'll look decent from 10' away. When I get the car painted, I'll have the body shop fill in the bad areas and work everything to fit better. That's beyond my skill, patience, and willingness right now. Maybe after I get the car done that will become a winter project. Good luck planning your build. The people on these forums are beyond helpful so keep us in the loop!

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Originally Posted by mcamera

I'll still have large gaps above my doors at the a-pillar...

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You aren't making the same mistake I made in assuming this gap should be very small? Then I realized that the mirror mount and inner door panel need this gap to fit properly.

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Originally Posted by mcamera

I'm not sure if the convertible is better or worse. I'll still have large gaps above my doors at the a-pillar and a large gap between my hardtop and rear bumper. Those areas will need extra fiberglass to fill them in properly and have even gaps!

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Michael - the S model is just as bad with the rear engine cover, and it’s alignment to the tops of the doors, and having to clear around the roll bar. I’ve spent almost all of my time doing the body work here and still not happy with it. We’ve also had to fill in that gap along the sides and the rear bumper.

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Originally Posted by FFRWRX

You aren't making the same mistake I made in assuming this gap should be very small? Then I realized that the mirror mount and inner door panel need this gap to fit properly.

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One of the things that was totally apparent at the build school is that using the donor mirrors on the "C" is terrible. They are almost totally blocked by the A pillar. They work on the S, but we have no intention of using them on our C.

I'll have to double check the position of the mirrors, but when I did a quick check I found the drivers side one was in a good position. The passenger side one looked like maybe the A pillar would partially block it, so I'm going to make a new mount for that one that moves it rearward a little so it is not behind the A pillar.

FFRWRX, I know there should be a gap for the mirror bracket but I'm still dealing with a 1/2" gap. I haven't closed it down to 1/8" or anything that tight. I don't plan to use the donor mirrors though. They were missing from my VCP donor pallet. I've requested them 3 times and was told they'd get shipped, but I still never got them (along with my rearview mirror). I'll buy aftermarket mirrors.

Scott, that's what I expected but I didn't want to talk about something I haven't worked on. Plus you have more bodywork experience so that helps show that it's not just me creating issues lol.

Roadrashrob, good to know! I'm not bummed that I get to shop around for some fancier mirrors.

Replaced my old donor air filter while it was still easy to get to. My black hatch latch also worked out great. I put sound deadening and insulation on my door before I started playing with the window.

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My first attempt at aligning the window had the window way too short. With the motor all the way up, I still needed a couple inches to seal at the top.

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I raised the motor assembly and adjusted the angle. Still short.

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I raised the motor as much as I could, maxing out the bottom bracket adjustment, and moved the glass up in the rubber pads that hold it to the motor. This is where I stopped for the night but it looks promising if I adjust the angle of the glass. Once again the adjustment range seems tight/too small for something on the car. The flange around the window is too thick for the supplied flocked weatherstrip. I'm looking for a flocked weatherstrip with a 1/4" opening but having trouble finding one. Anybody have a link/suggestion? Nothing on McMaster Carr.

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How soon until you start going through the assembled vehicle process?

Lookin' good, you're well ahead of my pace!

Thanks! It's not on my radar yet. Still need seatbelts, head/tail lights, windows, windshield, and a bunch of aluminum panels. Lots of work before I want it on the road so I might be near the end of the year.

The driver window is working well after many hours of tuning. I couldn't find a ~1/4" flocked seal to fit the thicker flange around the window, so I ground the flange down to fit the ~1/8" FFR flocked seal. I figured that was better than using a rubber seal that squeals/chatters across the window when raising/lowering it. I cut the hole in the top of the door with a slight curve to match the window, but I'm not sure I like the look of it with the seal installed now. I'll see how it looks with the trim and inner door panel installed but I might be cutting that hole straight again for aesthetics. I'm proud of myself for figuring out the window wiring lol. I know it's fairly basic, but I had to group 3 wires together in a couple connections which was a curveball. Small victories.

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https://youtu.be/4rfSeFUTPZo

Has anybody had any big issues fitting their door windows on the 818 coupe? I got my driver window to fit and seal well but my passenger side window is really far off. I'm starting to think the glass is warped. It doesn't seem to match the curvature of the hardtop. Here's what I emailed to Factory Five to see if they have any suggestions.

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Has anybody NOT had problems with the windows?!

I emailed Factory Five to, politely, point out how the windows were not designed properly to go up and down, and with very small changes to the shape and curvature could be much improved. I got a response that explained their reasoning for the current shape/size. Made some sense, but not totally. Basically, the curvature is wrong on the windows. The rear part is curved and the front is flat, so it can't correctly go up and down following a curve at the rear with it flat at the front.

I didn't measure mine to see if each side is the same.

Rick

mcam, I drove Art Quillen's car a couple of weeks ago, and it is Lexus like fit/finish. His windows worked perfectly. Art has the patience and skill, ask him.
jim

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Mac, the right side of the coupe top is not symmetrical to the left side, making the windows a real challenge. I suggest you throw away the shower door rollers and go to your local junkyard and get some window channels from a 2002 Chevy S-10 pickup truck. You’ll have to do a little welding but having the window held within channels is the best approach.

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Originally Posted by lance corsi

Mac, the right side of the coupe top is not symmetrical to the left side, making the windows a real challenge. I suggest you throw away the shower door rollers and go to your local junkyard and get some window channels from a 2002 Chevy S-10 pickup truck. You’ll have to do a little welding but having the window held within channels is the best approach.

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Caveat emptor ehh Lance? Like crossing the street, look left, look right, and proceed with caution.
It pizzes me off when my cardboard templates work once only.
Do you suppose anyone got spanked for this fax pas?

Based on mcam's observation, there will not be symmetry front to rear either.

I have been shopping auto components on Amazon. Analyzing packaging and design/function I most often end up with Honda or Toyota; hood, trunk latches recently. Diversity of options and multiple photo views are helpful.
ebay is similarly helpful but replica OEM is a crap shoot in both venues.
Salvage yards here want to sell over the internet or the counter. "Shopping the yard" is rarely an option.
jim

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Originally Posted by mcamera

Has anybody had any big issues fitting their door windows on the 818 coupe? I got my driver window to fit and seal well but my passenger side window is really far off. I'm starting to think the glass is warped. It doesn't seem to match the curvature of the hardtop. Here's what I emailed to Factory Five to see if they have any suggestions.

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Mine was the same in the passenger side. I ended up cutting the frame and welding a new piece to reinforce it, tho I only have a pic of the cut door for some reason. I got it to track pretty well in the end, but used thicker bulb seal like Art did.

Pitching the the top of the track further back then the bottom also helps to avoid the top corner of the glass from digging in to the seal. It basically engages the seal in the top 50% of the travel where the curve of the opening starts to open up. Attachment 153896

The best I can tell you is I spent many hours fiddling, adjusting, observing and finally got them to behave. No silver bullet - just keep at it, walk away and come back over and over. I suspect Lans' use of the S10 rails is probably the better starting point than the FFR setup.

The primary reason I decided to use the S-10 channels is because during the window travel, because of the wicked bad engineering, the window moves away from the rollers, leaving no support for the windows except for the regulator itself. With the channels, the windows remain captive throughout their travel. Although the windows will be more stable this way, they will still not perfectly follow the desired path. I adjusted mine to seal at the full up position. After spending nearly 6 weeks on adjusting, I called it good enough.

This issue upsets me as an example of FFRs development process. My career was recreational product development. The development gates were prototype build stages of improvements leading to a pre-production build on production tooling. These assemblies were for "production level" quality evaluation, performance tests and durability testing. Any of those evaluations should disclose an assembly error. In my case if this design failure went to the assembly line, it would stop production and heads would roll. If the production process or purchased parts went out of specification, the dealers sent back parts; the service department and warranty departments would stop production until the problem was resolved.

All great feedback. The rollers don't always contact the window on my driver's side but I prioritized good contact when the window was all the way down. When it's up, it has the motor at the bottom and the seal around the window at the top to hold it in place. When it's all the way down (which it will be 90% of the time, I don't have AC) there's nothing holding the top of the window in place so I wanted the rollers to do a good job there. The driver side took a lot of time but it was NEVER this far off.

I've tried hours of adjusting and nothing gets me less than a 1" gap at the back of the window. I emailed FFR some pics and a description. They're sending me another tubular door frame and said if the frame has any warp in it, that it won't line up like I'm seeing. I'm skeptical, but I'll try the new frame when it gets here.

Thanks for the ideas and support. We'll see if I need to take more extreme measures soon.

I mounted my first 1.5" mini Quik Latch (part# QL-25-SB1.5). I like the look of these more than the chrome hood pins. There's a lot of room for adjustment and it latches well even at some wide angles. I made a simple aluminum bracket for mounting. My mount flexes enough and is at an angle that the latch doesn't disengage freely but I won't need to open this so that doesn't bother me. The area above the rear wheel still bows up so I'll need another quick latch there to keep my seam flush. Sorry the last 2 photos are upside down, but you can see how that seam is raised.

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I would add a safety chain anywhere the wind could pull on those latches. I added them to my Mustang hood after a builder I know had a set turn the hood loose on the first test drive after paint and assembly. Sent the hood across the roof and required almost a total repaint.

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Originally Posted by mcamera

I mounted my first 1.5" mini Quik Latch (part# QL-25-SB1.5). I like the look of these more than the chrome hood pins. There's a lot of room for adjustment and it latches well even at some wide angles. I made a simple aluminum bracket for mounting. My mount flexes enough and is at an angle that the latch doesn't disengage freely but I won't need to open this so that doesn't bother me. The area above the rear wheel still bows up so I'll need another quick latch there to keep my seam flush. Sorry the last 2 photos are upside down, but you can see how that seam is raised.

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Instead of adding "another" latch, you can reinforce it with some carbon fiber underneath while holding the proper contour. Once it cures it will stiffen it right up!

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Originally Posted by Ajzride

I would add a safety chain anywhere the wind could pull on those latches. I added them to my Mustang hood after a builder I know had a set turn the hood loose on the first test drive after paint and assembly. Sent the hood across the roof and required almost a total repaint.

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The manufacturer specifically says that the mini Quik Latches are not sufficient for hood closure. They do make a couple of more robust versions for that purpose.

"* Please note that the use of a quantity of 2 x QL-25 Mini Quik-Latch series fasteners are not intended for use in hood pin applications where there is no OEM hood latch latch present. The QL-25 series universal latches are not designed for use as a primary hood latch mechanism, although they can function as a secondary safety mechanism.

If you are looking for the hood pin models, please consider either the QL-38 or QL-50 series Quik-Latch Hood Pin Kits" https://www.quik-latch.com/