JB in NOVA's MK4 build : First overnight road trip!

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Originally Posted by JB in NOVA

Is this just a matter of fabricating an aluminum panel and bending it to fit, then securing with rivets or screws? Do most folks get it painted along with the rest of the body? I'd appreciate any suggestions, thanks.

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Like lots of other build choices, kind of up to you. Leaving it as is a little rough but many do. Easy to make a panel from aluminum. Or Dark Water sells one. Can be installed with self-tapping screws and probably be fine since it rarely needs to be removed. Or you could use nutserts or nut plates (what I do). Some leave them bare aluminum. Kind of depends on the rest of the trunk finish and the look you're after. Or you can have painted with the rest of the car. What I've done.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...370&fit=bounds

Made a panel from aluminum and installed with nutserts. Leaving it bare.

Attachment 145076

If you use nutserts, try these - they are meant to bite into softer material like gelcoat or fiberglass vs metal. From McMaster-Carr.

Attachment 145077

chris at darkwater customs makes a block off plate for this.

It's a simple and kind of fun thing to fabricate yourself. I covered it, probably way too much, in my build thread starting here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post340129

The material is very thin that the panel will screw into, so keep that in mind. I used way more screws than are needed. I kept mine raw aluminum and just treated it with a little Sharkhide to keep it from oxidizing.

Garage time has been scarce lately, but I’ve managed to knock out a few small projects. First, I purchased and received a 1.5-inch adjustment wedge from Breeze to help with my PS side pipe issue. https://www.breezeautomotive.com/sho...ustment-wedge/ It actually helped quite a bit. With that adjustment, I was able to get my side piper hangers installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1617491589

As many have advised, I only installed the upper of the two bolts on the side pipe bracket, to allow some movement and prevent cracking.

Next, I installed the Breeze adjustable seat bases. I debated whether I really needed these, but now that I’ve installed them, I’m happy I did. As many have noted, the ability to adjust the seats is probably not that important since I will be the only driver. But the seat base provides a slight recline angle, which does make it more comfortable, and I really like the extra rigidity it provides to the aluminum floor. These are solid pieces! As always, Breeze’s instructions were clear and easy to follow. I had to wait for nicer weather to prime the steel components. Here’s the base riveted to the floor:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1617491620

Question: do most folks carpet over the entire base, leaving just the four studs protruding through the carpet? Or should I cut a big square in the carpet to accommodate the entire seat base?

The final thing I managed to install is the Breeze trunk prop, which I’m really happy with. It's simple, functional, and seems period correct:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1617491705

A few comments about the install. First, I had to reverse the orientation compared to Breeze’s instructions (swiveling end on PS instead of DS) because the drop-trunk mod makes it impossible to get access to the ¾-inch tube on the DS to install the cotter pin. You can get access on the PS through the fuel-sender access panel, which is what I did. Second, I had to trim a few inches off the prop rod to make it fit properly – no big deal. Third, I found a great tip on another thread (sorry, can’t remember whose it was) about how to drill through nylon trunk-liner material without the “twirling” problem. Use a soldering iron to melt away the nylon material where you want to drill. It creates a clean hole that is “cauterized” so that the threads will not catch on the drill bit. Worked like a charm! I wish I had discovered that tip sooner.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1617491732

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Originally Posted by JB in NOVA

do most folks carpet over the entire base, leaving just the four studs protruding through the carpet? Or should I cut a big square in the carpet to accommodate the entire seat ]

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I'm sure either option is fine. I carpeted over the base and just left the four studs protruding. Worked out fine.

I ended up mounting my breeze seat base over the carpeting, I used a larger diameter rivet that are 4.8mm long. Not sure if this is correct way to mount but it seemed to work out fine. One tip JB when you mount the seat on to the breeze base plate. If you remove the four allen bolts that attach the seat frame to the upper base plate it makes install much easier. You can bolt down the upper plate and easily reach the four outer bolts. Once the upper plate is bolted down you can put the seat frame base on with the four allen head bolts. If you try and install the seat attached with the upper base plate it is near impossible to tighten down the outer four bolts.

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Originally Posted by JB in NOVA

This hose was also included in the rear suspension box. I’m assuming this connects to the rear axle vent. Is that right?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1587925486

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Hello JB, did the answer to this become "yes"? I haven't found mine yet, but this part number is in my fuel box paperwork, which was just delivered today, so might be in there.

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Originally Posted by BeePea

Hello JB, did the answer to this become "yes"? I haven't found mine yet, but this part number is in my fuel box paperwork, which was just delivered today, so might be in there.

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Yep, that is for the axle vent, which I figured out by process of elimination.

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Originally Posted by JB in NOVA

Yep, that is for the axle vent, which I figured out by process of elimination.

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Thanks!

Well, I can no longer say “progress continues,” as I’ve suffered a very unfortunate setback. While waiting for my registration paperwork to be approved, I’ve been taking the Roadster out on neighborhood roads to shake out bugs. After 45 miles, everything was running great, and I had already taken care of several small issues (engine was idling a bit high – fixed; PS door kept swinging open – fixed; etc.)

But at mile 45, my clutch suddenly gave out. The clutch pedal lost all pressure and fluid began leaking out of the clutch/transmission. Here is #9822 taking the “ride of shame” back home:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1618517943

Here are the basic symptoms: (1) the clutch fluid reservoir is partially drained, so I’ve definitely lost some of that fluid; (2) it also appears some transmission fluid is leaking, although it is light pink rather than red (see picture below) – so perhaps mixed with the clutch fluid?; (3) although hard to tell where the fluid is leaking from, it seems to be from the enclosure that houses the slave cylinder and throw-out bearing, both of which are internally mounted in the Blueprint 347/TKO600 drive train; (4) no leaks or apparent damage at the master cylinder or on the lines and fittings connecting to the slave cylinder/TOB.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1618517962

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1618517955

I’m working with the warranty team at Blueprint to diagnose the problem and figure out what to do next. The slave cylinder/TOB is a likely culprit, although I don’t see how that would cause “pink” fluid to be leaking. Seems like it should just be the clear DOT 3 brake/clutch fluid leaking if the slave cylinder/TOB failed.

Anyway, to get to the issue, I have to separate the transmission from the engine because that’s the only way to expose the internal slave cylinder/TOB. I’m assuming this can be done with the engine installed, but I could really use some advice on how to do it. I’m assuming (1) disconnect and remove the drive shaft, (2) unbolt the transmission from the mounting plate, (3) use a floor jack(?) to support the front of the transmission; (4) unbolt the bell housing from the engine; (5) and then somehow “slide” the transmission backward until it’s disconnected from the engine(?).

Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Needless to say, I’m pretty disappointed with all of this. I’m used to taking two steps forward and one step back on this project, but this is a real kick in the nuts, I won’t lie.

Can't help with your hydraulic clutch issue, but fret not, everybody has had setbacks and several of us the ride of shame

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1586809767

Well, not sure how the trans fluid and clutch fluid can mix. You need to find the connection that gave way or maybe the TOB itself. You may be looking at pulling the trans to repair. I recall Shark had a similar issue in his build thread (think he has coyote but same trans). I know that many like the TOB route but slave for me for this reason.

Hope its something that can be tackled without major surgery!

Oh man JB, dang.. I am sorry to see this...

Wish I lived close to you, I would be over in a heartbeat to give you a hand. I hope BP gets it figured out for you and also helps out with the labor involved, you will get through this and keep moving ahead.

Best of luck to you...

That’s unfortunate. At least you’re getting warranty help. As far as the dripping fluid being pink, break fluid is going to dissolve any paint it comes in contact with. Your pressure plate wouldn’t be red by some chance? Anything else red in the bell housing?

Good luck

Norm

PS Ride of shame member

Sorry to hear about this. The warranty is good news, but a bummer none the less. As far as the dot 3 being low those are 2 separate systems. My guess is if they are related at all is whatever blew out in your transmission damaged your throw out bearing too? Best case scenario is what Norm is saying. Maybe the transmission is fine and it’s just the bearing.


Good luck

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Originally Posted by Norm B

That’s unfortunate. At least you’re getting warranty help. As far as the dripping fluid being pink, break fluid is going to dissolve any paint it comes in contact with. Your pressure plate wouldn’t be red by some chance? Anything else red in the bell housing?

Good luck

Norm

PS Ride of shame member

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Thanks Norm. Funny you should ask. I finally was able to remove the plastic housing tonight and stick a camera up inside -- yep, everything inside is red:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1618548324
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1618548330

So the "good" news is that probably isn't transmission fluid leaking, it's just the DOT 3 brake/clutch fluid with some leached red paint. Thanks for catching that. Now I just need to figure out how to drop the transmission to diagnose and fix the problem.

JB, Sorry for your clutch problem and "ride of shame". I'm sure B/P will make it right.
JR

I'll bet the pressure plate rubbed a hole in one of the hyd lines.
You may not have to pull the trans all the out.
Then again you will probably have to wash out the bellhousing enclosure.
I will be watching, a friend has the same set up from BPE.
Good luck,

I too have experienced the ride of shame (for a different reason...) and I too will be following this thread to see the outcome. I committed to an internal hydraulic throwout bearing in my Coupe build. Different brand (Tilton) but obviously same risk if something fails. I love how it setup and works. But there is this risk. Lots written about pulling a TKO on a Mk4 Roadster. Possible but not fun. I helped a buddy do one. Takes some twists and moves but we got it done. His was on jackstands. Would have been way easier on a lift. Just saying. Also agree take a hard look at how you have the hoses routed. One of the failures previously listed on here was related to that. Not the bearing itself.

Oh, man, JB - I'm really sorry to hear this news. I hope it turns out to be not as tough as it first appears. Good luck - you'll make it through!

JB, you are getting a brainstorm of ideas here, so I will weigh in. I have limited experience with what I call donut TOB, we ran one on a 1954 Corvette for La Carrera Pan America, and it survived.
Your fluid drips look homogeneous, not like a mix. I always smell that kind of thing for evidence. If it was gear oil you would know. I speculate that the brake fluid may have been stressed and burned dark, Could it be that you did not have free-play and the TOB was partly loaded while you were driving? As an old guy I minimize effort. I would pull the transmission, (I can press one of those laying down) then I would pull the bellhousing if necessary.

That clutch hose looks awfully close to the pressure plate. Removing and replacing the transmission/bellhousing is not that difficult, a friend and I R&R’d mine in about3 hours. (rear main seal). Try and get a plug for the output seal, it will save a lot of mess. Blue print can probably get you one if you didn’t save the one that came with your transmission.

I found the problem! And one of you forum gurus was SPOT ON! I’ll reveal the winner at the end of this post.

First, a few words about dropping the transmission in case some future newbie like me is faced with the same task. After discussing a couple options with Blueprint, I decided to disconnect the transmission from the bell housing, leaving the bell housing secured to the engine. I liked this option because the transmission is easier to handle without the bell housing attached, and some of those bell housing bolts are difficult to get to.

The first step (after watching a bunch of Youtube videos like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1VmKQqwy68) was to buy a transmission floor jack for $108 at Harbor Freight. Next, I disconnected the hydraulic clutch lines, drained the transmission fluid, removed the drive shaft and the A-frame. I eventually found I also needed to remove the resilient mount from the bottom of the transmission and the shifter stub to allow the tail end of the transmission to slide fully backward:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1618620444

Once everything was removed, I used the transmission floor jack to support the weight of the transmission and my regular floor jack to support the engine (some of the videos said this is a good idea to prevent the engine from shifting during the removal process). I removed the four bolts connecting the transmission to the bell housing. They were tight, but they broke free with some effort:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1618620496

Finally, I carefully slid the transmission out of the bell housing, being careful to keep the alignment straight. It slid out relatively smoothly, revealing the McLeod slave cylinder/TOB:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1618620522

And once I worked it all the way out of the bell housing, I found the culprit right away:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1618620539

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1618620555

Just as Railroad correctly predicted, and Chuckster too, the supply hose was rubbing against the clutch vanes inside the bell housing. Apparently 45 miles is how long it takes to eat through stainless steel braiding. The clutch itself does not appear to be damaged, though:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1618620564

I’m relieved to know what the problem is, and I’m especially relieved to find it wasn’t my fault :) Hopefully, Blueprint will get me a replacement quickly -- and figure out how to prevent this problem in the future. I’ll update once I get the repair completed and everything buttoned up.

So glad for you.

Hey, I suggested that too. :D But not first. Glad you found it and not a major issue.

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Originally Posted by edwardb

Hey, I suggested that too. :D But not first. Glad you found it and not a major issue.

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Ha ha! You sure did. I didn't mean to slight you, Paul. But you know you already have a Lifetime Achievement Award for being an incredibly helpful and generous FFR forum guru!

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Originally Posted by JB in NOVA

I found the problem! And one of you forum gurus was SPOT ON! I’ll reveal the winner at the end of this post.

First, a few words about dropping the transmission in case some future newbie like me is faced with the same task. After discussing a couple options with Blueprint, I decided to disconnect the transmission from the bell housing, leaving the bell housing secured to the engine. I liked this option because the transmission is easier to handle without the bell housing attached, and some of those bell housing bolts are difficult to get to.

The first step (after watching a bunch of Youtube videos like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1VmKQqwy68) was to buy a transmission floor jack for $108 at Harbor Freight. Next, I disconnected the hydraulic clutch lines, drained the transmission fluid, removed the drive shaft and the A-frame. I eventually found I also needed to remove the resilient mount from the bottom of the transmission and the shifter stub to allow the tail end of the transmission to slide fully backward:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1618620444

Once everything was removed, I used the transmission floor jack to support the weight of the transmission and my regular floor jack to support the engine (some of the videos said this is a good idea to prevent the engine from shifting during the removal process). I removed the four bolts connecting the transmission to the bell housing. They were tight, but they broke free with some effort:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1618620496

Finally, I carefully slid the transmission out of the bell housing, being careful to keep the alignment straight. It slid out relatively smoothly, revealing the McLeod slave cylinder/TOB:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1618620522

And once I worked it all the way out of the bell housing, I found the culprit right away:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1618620539

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1618620555

Just as Railroad correctly predicted, and Chuckster too, the supply hose was rubbing against the clutch vanes inside the bell housing. Apparently 45 miles is how long it takes to eat through stainless steel braiding. The clutch itself does not appear to be damaged, though:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1618620564

I’m relieved to know what the problem is, and I’m especially relieved to find it wasn’t my fault :) Hopefully, Blueprint will get me a replacement quickly -- and figure out how to prevent this problem in the future. I’ll update once I get the repair completed and everything buttoned up.

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Glad you got it figured out. Makes me a little nervous though. I’m the friend of Railroad he mentioned in his post. We dropped it in earlier this week. Wondering if there is anything I can do to inspect it short of dropping the transmission. I’ll definitely be reaching out to BPE next week. BTW...I might have missed it in your post, did you get the TKX with your motor? That’s what I have although it’s probably not relevant to this problem. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

Glad you got it figured out JB, now just clean up and new parts and reassembly. No big deal right Ha Ha!
JR

I have the same setup from BPE. 700 miles so far and no issues but I'm very interested in any method I can use to inspect my setup without dropping the transmission. Any insight would be appreciated.
Thanks!

Recalling from Jeffhelms56 set up, I think there is room to inspect the hoses through the clutch arm window.
At worst, a probe camera should give a good view.
If the lines are attached outside of the bell housing, not allowing movement, and clear of the pressure plate, all should be good.

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Originally Posted by Railroad

Recalling from Jeffhelms56 set up, I think there is room to inspect the hoses through the clutch arm window.
At worst, a probe camera should give a good view.
If the lines are attached outside of the bell housing, not allowing movement, and clear of the pressure plate, all should be good.

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Yes, I was able to take the cover off that "window" and stick my iphone up inside with the flash on. You can get pictures of pretty much everything inside that way.

Nice work JB, glad it is relatively a minor fix... You will be back on the road soon!:cool:

As railroad said secure the new hose to the outside of the bellhouseing, an insulated cable clip should do it, you should have a few spares left over from the wiring box. Drill, tap, screw, and you’re good to go.

Thinking out loud ... would it be worth fabricating a hard line for the internal connection?

Great to see you got it resolved, JB! Thanks for sharing. This forum continues to be such an excellent resource!

* Personal note taken to ensure my towing insurance is current when I eventually get to this stage...I doubt I'll get away with only one ride of shame.

Hi JB,

Thanks for sharing your build! I just spent the last couple of hours reading the entire adventure and enjoyed it very much. Somewhere in there, I think you mentioned your wife reviewing color combinations and I had to chuckle a bit as I am not yet into a build, but my missus has already claimed that part of the process.

Any favorite combos yet?

(I have a feeling I will end up in some fall colors with browns, oranges, reds, and blacks to choose from.)

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Originally Posted by Papa

Thinking out loud ... would it be worth fabricating a hard line for the internal connection?

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Sounds like a good idea to me. I'm going to bounce that off the folks at Blueprint.

I looked at mine yesterday and there is a lot of slack in the lines going into the bellhousing. I didn’t measure it but it seems to be at least 3 inches or so. The ID of the grommets is such that they don’t have any appreciable grip on the lines and the slightest bit of force applied to the fitting tends to shove the line into the bellhousing. I’m going to install a hose separator clamp between the supply and bleed lines just outside the grommets and I think that should keep the hoses from creeping into the bellhousing.

Nice, it’s a bummer you had to drop the tranny but at least you know how now. Also any repair that inexpensive is a win.

Happy for you.