Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build: 5,000 Mile Report

Another quick update. Today finished the center switch panel. Wrapped it with the same C-F like vinyl used on my gauge panel. A little tedious, but it’s done and turned out nice I think. Also worked more on the overall layout of all the electrical components. I mounted the previously discussed modules across the top of the upper transmission tunnel cover. They’re pretty much out of the way of the main wiring harness and HVAC ducts. Plus hidden by the switch panel. So I think (hope) it’s all going to fit and be reasonably accessible if needed. This is the completed switch panel with everything mounted. Managed to sink quite a few hours into this with the design and fabrication. Lots going on, even though doesn't quite look like it now. One last minute surprise. Had to make a cutout in the switch panel base and trans cover for a corner of the Cole Hersee wiper/washer switch. It's pretty big. Then made a little sheet metal cover for the underside to seal it up. Always something.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1530904496

Left to right – relays for the headlight reminder and fog lights, headlight control module, keyless push button start module, reverse lock-out module. Have to get everything hooked up, but this is a start.

Here’s the gauge cluster and switch panel in my now nearly completed dash. Lots of work to do obviously for all those wires hanging into the footbox. As mentioned before, planning vinyl on the front and top of the dash, with red stitching that matches my seats across the top front. No brow piece. The two trans covers will also be vinyl covered, with red stitching along the corners. The glove box door will probably be the same vinyl as the dash. I'll look at using the C-F style vinyl, although that might be too much. But coming together now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1530904513

The switch panel is held in place with six screws through the bottom of the trans cover, all accessible from underneath, and two into the underside of the dash. With those screws removed, the panel will slide out. The gauge cluster is captured between the dash and the upper dash tube at the top and three screws along the bottom. With the switch panel and those three screws removed, it will tip out. At that point, all the wiring should be accessible, including the modules pictured previously. Both the upper and lower trans covers also will be removable. None of that would be real quick but possible. Hopefully won’t be necessary.

That’s a good head start on electrical. Basically fabrication is completed and ready for wiring. But going to take all this out and get going on permanently mounting panels and getting everything insulated. Then wiring can be finalized.

Family visits and other stuff going on for the next couple weeks, so progress will be slowed a little. That’s OK. With the warmer weather it’s been a little warm in the garage. Received another update on the Gen 3 Coyote. Saying “end of August” is looking pretty good. That works.

Finally getting around to another update. Family time and out cruising cuts into available time. But all good. Last few days have been productive. With all my panels back from powder coat, finally time to get serious with them. First took a bunch of stuff out of the chassis. Wiring harness except the rear harness, dash, pedal box, steering column, and A/C evaporator. Need as much as I can out of the way for panel install and partial Lizard Skin spray. More on that later. Then started on the cockpit installing panels for the final time.

There are occasional threads in the forums about using silicone sealant as an adhesive for the panels, as the manual says. Some think a stronger material is needed. Others don’t want anything silicone around their build for fear it could contaminate the body and subsequent paint. Others find it a pain to clean up, which it sorta is. I’ve used plain old GE silicone from the big box stores on my previous builds and didn’t have any complaints. I’ve had to remove a panel or two in the past, after the usual rivet and silicone, and it’s not easy to do without damaging the panel. So, it does seem to be strong enough for this purpose. But never being one to leave well enough alone, plus like to try different things, I went for one of the alternative adhesives that has been suggested. There are several, but I chose Sikaflex-221 Polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant. Available from Amazon for a little under $10 for a 10.1 oz cartridge. Just about through the first tube, and have several observations, all good I guess. I’ve not done any testing, and don’t plan to. But all indications are it’s stronger than silicone, if that’s important. Still a little flexible when cured but seems more substantial. Definitely bonds well. Probably the main thing I like is how easy it cleans up. A little mineral spirits on a paper towel and it wipes right off without leaving a residue like silicone. It does start setting up pretty quickly, but still can be cleaned in a reasonable time. My only regret is I chose the aluminum grey color thinking it would match my powder coated panels. But it’s quite a bit lighter, so I need to make sure every trace of squeeze-out is cleaned up. In hindsight, I would have chosen black. Probably will get another tube for the all black radiator tunnel.

I have a number of cockpit pieces installed. The two transmission tunnel covers will be removable, as already mentioned. The rear outside cockpit corners don’t go in until the body is on. The front tunnel sides will get riveted when the footboxes are installed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1532467834

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1532467825

I prefer to not put rivets into the seat pan. Certainly all the chassis members all around it, but not the pan itself. Just don’t like the rivets sticking through the underside of the pan. (My OCD at work again…) What I do is put plenty of adhesive on the pan and after putting in all the other rivets, weigh it down with a cinder block. I let that sit for 24 hours or so, and the panel is firmly attached. The seat bolts will add another layer of attachment when installed. Pretty glamorous picture of the cider block doing its thing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1532467754

Another small detail is the rear harness through the aluminum panels. As I recall, this isn’t noted in the manual. And isn’t cut in any of the panels. I added a cutout in the top of the DS trans front tunnel side. Put a piece of wiring protector on the cutout, and there you go. Right now has the rear harness and the rear brake line going through. Will add the clutch hydraulic line when the engine is installed, and then seal it up with some caulking.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1532467845

Now for sound/heat insulation. I’ve sprayed Lizard Skin heat and sound materials on all my builds, and have been satisfied with the results. As with most spraying jobs, there are hours spent on masking and minutes spent spraying. As I mentioned before, the Gen 3 Coupe with the space frame has even more obstacles to deal with, mainly in the footbox area. Rather than trying to mask it, I’m going to take a hybrid approach. I’m using stick-on sound/heat insulation products on the footboxes, and Lizard Skin on the rest. I’ve not used these materials before, so spent quite a while looking at the options. Both on our forums and elsewhere. There are a bunch of choices! And the costs are all over the map. I ended up doing a hybrid here too. I was very impressed with everything I read about Second Skin Damplifier Pro. Gets great reviews. Isn't the cheapest, but also isn't the most expensive. It’s primarily for sound, and is the first layer used. I wanted to add another layer for heat. There I chose to use Dynamat 1/8-inch Dynaliner. It has an adhesive backing, where the similar product from Second Skin did not. I found a couple very positive reviews using this combination, so not an original idea. Ordered the required materials and have been working on it.

My strategy is to mount all the insulation materials on the loose panels before installation. Then mount and done. So first thing, traced all the chassis members and overlaps on the inside of the affected panels. Total of 15 (so far). Then I used blue masking tape along all the marked lines. I found it easier to see and work with. Then made patterns for all the pieces out of Ram Board. If you’re not familiar with this material, it’s sold at Home Depot (and I’m sure lots of other places) and is used for floor protection on job sites. It’s just thick enough to make great patterns. Way better than chasing around thin Kraft paper or too small file folders. Only available in a 50-foot roll, so will last a long time. With all the patterns, started cutting and applying the Damplifier Pro, which is now basically complete for all the pieces. Interesting and tough material to deal with. At least for this first-timer. I found a straight edge and single-edge razer blades to be the best for cutting. But went through a bunch of blades because it dulls them fast. Read all the warnings about the sharp edges. But no bloodshed. At least this time through. The material is butyl with an aluminum layer. Really sticky and gummy stuff. But apparently doesn’t smell like tar based products. Here are three representative pieces with the first layer applied:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1532467800

With that done, started on the second layer of Dynamat Dynaliner. It’s way easier to work with and should go quickly. I only have the same three pieces done so far. Should finish the rest tomorrow.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1532467815

Then will start installing the footboxes, and also get the rear hatch area done. Still a ways to go and a bunch of details to finish. But hopefully will be spraying Lizard Skin in the not too distant future. Than a whole bunch of stuff starts going into the chassis for the last time.

One other comment about insulation. Obviously, my approach is to put the insulation on the inside of the footboxes, plus the balance of the cockpit and hatch area. An alternate approach, and used frequently especially for the coupe, is to put the materials on the outside of the engine facing panels. Especially in the areas directly adjacent to the headers. Certainly a valid approach, and arguably easier than how I'm doing the footboxes. I just prefer the clean look of the powder coated panels in the engine compartment.

Some of you may have seen Mark Gearhart’s post on the forum about receiving one of the first of six Gen 3 Coyote crate motors. Didn’t explain specifically, but apparently an early release for those in the industry because they’re still not officially released. But the August promise still seems on track and I’ll be ordering mine as soon as possible.

Finished the two layers of footbox insulation today. Was pretty tedious work. But I kept telling myself how much easier this was than trying to mask and spray these panels if they were mounted on the chassis. Plus there's no way I'd be able to get up into all the nooks and crannies like this. I'm really hopeful this will do a good job on the heat and sound for the footboxes. Have test fit most of the pieces and have a little adjustment to make in one place where I didn't allow for the pedal box mounting bracket. But an easy fix. Will starting mounting them for good tomorrow. You can see in the pictures I also decided now was a good time to mount the A/C and heater bulkhead fittings. They have 1-1/8 inch nuts on the inside, and easy to reach them now. Still a couple small pieces to insulate. Will do those once all the panels are mounted. One other small detail I'll mention. When I was tracing the frame members onto the panels, I noted where there were gaps or openings (like where frame members intersected, etc.) and adjusted the patterns accordingly. Should help get those openings filled. Planning to add seam sealer or something similar. But this will give something for support rather than just a bare opening.

Also today received notice of an incoming FedEx from Factory Five. My last POL item! It's the long lost clear Coupe headlight covers. Apparently they changed vendors and took some time to sort out. No big deal and not holding anything up. But kind of a milestone. Kit is now 100% received. :D

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1532652244

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1532652233

Paul,

You Always Do Killer Work & We All Enjoy Watching Your Builds Turn Into Rolling Art!

Steve

That is amazing work!!!! Great news for the headlight covers. Should be seeing those items soon too. They are also my last POL.

Were you to build another roadster, would you use this insulation process for those footboxes as well, or would you stick with masking & spraying?

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Originally Posted by mmklaxer

Were you to build another roadster, would you use this insulation process for those footboxes as well, or would you stick with masking & spraying?

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Interesting question. Had to think about it a little. I think my sensitivity to this topic is higher with the Coupe because the cockpit will be closed in all the time. So I'm really focused on controlling sound, heat, maximizing the effectiveness of the A/C, etc. I suspect the double layer of insulation on every square inch of the Coupe footboxes will be more effective than what I did on the Roadsters. But how much difference it makes is unknown at this point. My experience with the Roadsters based on multiple driving seasons and using the two Lizard Skin products is that we've never felt that heat from the engine or headers affected the temperature in the cockpit. But then living in Michigan, we have occasional hot days, but nothing like other areas of the country. We've also never had or considered a top. Sound control in an open top Roadster is subjective. I believe the insulation gives the car a more solid and tight feeling. But whether it affects actual dB's, probably not so much. And whether every square inch is covered is perhaps less of a priority. As a side note, I'd stress that sealing the cockpit from hot air infiltration from the engine compartment is a top priority. No amount of insulation will help if hot air is blowing into the cockpit.

Having said that, based on the Lizard Skin experience with #5125 and #7750, I did actually hand brush a couple of panels on the DS footbox of #8674 before assembly, as pictured below. These were areas that were nearly inaccessible for spraying once assembled. Couple of other pieces not pictured. The underside of the removable transmission tunnel cover and the DS access panel. But the rest I sprayed once installed with a lot of masking. For a Roadster, I'd probably do it the same way again. Masking and spraying early in the assembly process with as few obstacles as possible. Including the pedal box, any wiring, etc. Now that I've tried the stick-on approach, that's certainly an option as well. But the work is about the same either way.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbh1x4hq3.jpg

I live perhaps 90 minutes away and would be very interested in dropping by to see what you have, and meet you. I am considering a 65 Coupe.

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Originally Posted by Budge

I live perhaps 90 minutes away and would be very interested in dropping by to see what you have, and meet you. I am considering a 65 Coupe.

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Sure. I enjoy having visitors. PM sent.

Hello Paul,

I noticed on your past few builds that you fasten your sheetmetal in the cockpit utilizing two types of rivet sizes. Are you using 3/16 for the floor pans to chassis and 1/8 for the transmission tunnel panels? Do you upgrade any of these to structural (Q-rivets) for increased strength?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Troy Johnson

Hello Paul,

I noticed on your past few builds that you fasten your sheetmetal in the cockpit utilizing two types of rivet sizes. Are you using 3/16 for the floor pans to chassis and 1/8 for the transmission tunnel panels? Do you upgrade any of these to structural (Q-rivets) for increased strength?

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Those larger looking rivets are 1/8-inch "Ultimate Rivets" from Summit Racing. The version with a 3/8-inch head. https://static.summitracing.com/glob....jpg?rep=False. I like them because they have a wide grip range (0.063-0.375 in) and the large head pulls and holds well. Nothing wrong with the kit provided rivets. I just happen to like these better in certain places. But I only use them into chassis members, not panel-to-panel because of the size of the crushed rivet on the back side. That's one of the reasons you see different rivets in different places in my pictures.

I do use the more structural Q-rivets, but not a lot. I have the 3/16-inch size on the tabs for the brake flex lines, the padded clamps holding fuel and brake lines, and the padded clamps where I want to tie down the chassis harness. I like them a lot for applications like that. I don't think they're necessary for general panel attachment. At .30 - .40 each, would be quite expensive as well. Also, at least the 3/16-inch size (only size I've used), I can barely pull them with both hands on the manual rivet tool. My office hardened grip... I use my pneumatic puller whenever possible, which I do in all cases anyway.

I’ve had some productive build sessions since the last update. As of today, all the panels I’m planning to install are done. As I’ve mentioned before, the Coupe has a number of pieces that aren’t installed until after the body is installed. So I have those yet to go. Plus I’m leaving the fixed portion of the footbox tops and firewall off for now. They’re easy adds later and I want the additional access for the upcoming wiring, HVAC installation, etc. Also still not permanently attaching the center fill piece I made for the engine compartment. I don’t see any reason why it won’t work or fit. But waiting until I have the engine and everything else installed just to be sure.

Related to this, and I’ll mention it here, the hatch sides are two of the major pieces that don’t go in until after the body is on. The instructions show the edge of these panels going under the hatch floor. That’s fine, and what I’m planning to do. Be careful to not have adhesive under this edge of the floor. I actually kept it an inch or two away on the cross pieces as well. I’m able to left the edge enough to get the pieces under. Also on this point, I’m not planning to use adhesive on these pieces or the other pieces, like the outer rear cockpit corners, that are also added after the body is on. Although I’m not sure why it would be necessary to take the body off once everything is done, don’t want to make it harder than it needs to be. The nose would come off pretty easily, e.g. for major engine work or removal. The back half affected by all these pieces probably unlikely.

The heat and sound insulation I added to the footbox pieces, shown in the last update, all worked out pretty well with just a couple minor trims. Real happy with how that turned out. For the exposed rivets in the engine compartment, I painted them with matching Duplic-Color spray. Same stuff I used on the #8674 build. Kind of a tedious (and maybe a little silly) process of taking the rivets apart, lining the heads up in a pre-drilled block, spraying them after a light sand and clean, and then re-installing the pins. For the most part, they held up to the assembly process pretty well. The pneumatic puller seems to be easier on them than the manual one. But still some would get a little scratched or marked. Spent a little time with an artist brush tonight and touched up those that needed it and I’m done with that. Lots of pictures.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1533181296

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1533181303

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1533181311

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1533181319

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1533181335

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1533181327

We all know what I need to put in that big empty space in the last picture. Come on Gen 3 Coyote. With the dropped box and hatch floor installed, finally permanently installed the gas tank. Felt good getting everything hooked up and connected for real. Very briefly put power on the fuel pump wires from the harness at the dash. It’s alive. Not supposed to run those dry, but a second or two shouldn’t hurt anything. Also read the ohms out of the fuel level sender. Where it should be for an empty tank.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1533181345

These are views from the underside. Shows that nice big tunnel for the trans. The T-56 fits pretty easily. Also shows how it looks to have all the panels coated. There’s often debate on the forum about which panels to finish on these builds. Some say only what shows from the engine compartment. I say everything shows. Well, I guess if you have a lift and care about such things.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1533181369

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1533181382

With all that done, installed the steering column and the brake/clutch reservoirs. Hopefully both also for the last time. I’m going to bleed the brakes tomorrow. Anxious to get my lines all checked out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1533181270

Finally, broke open the carpeting box for the first time. A lot of pieces in there! Makes sense since there’s carpet for the entire cockpit and hatch area. Would be like a Roadster with added trunk pieces. I checked the fit of most of the pieces and looks pretty good. I don’t have all the details yet, but I don’t see any glaring raw edges like with the Roadster. That’s nice. I think I’ll add a couple pieces in the footwells to cover the square tubes in there. The inside is already covered, and think I’ll add the other two. One hint. Open the box and lay out all the pieces well in advance of installation. That way the bends and creases from being jammed in the box should flatten out. I've got them all stacked up in the basement and they should be good and ready when I am.

Next major step, after a few more details, is masking and Lizard Skin application.

Looks fantastic Paul!

Jeff

Paul.
Huge help as always! I'm EXACTLY at this point on my build, going to go mark and install the insulation on the foot box panels tomorrow per your process - this update is very timely! Thanks for the heads up on the pieces that get installed AFTER the body. You are helping me avoid many rookie mistakes...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dlirium

Paul. Huge help as always! I'm EXACTLY at this point on my build, going to go mark and install the insulation on the foot box panels tomorrow per your process - this update is very timely! Thanks for the heads up on the pieces that get installed AFTER the body. You are helping me avoid many rookie mistakes...

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Cool! Follow the manual on the aluminum panels. They do a good job of explaining where they go, when they get installed, etc. The parts I listed are just a few of the ones that don't get installed until after the body is installed. Add to the list the rear hatch wall, some pieces around the firewall, and all the splash guards. Plus a couple other small parts I'm probably not remembering. They're all kind of spread out in the manual. I went through the manual a couple months ago and made a list.

Man that looks GREAT! I'm with you; powdercoat everything (unless of course you are afflicted with polishing disease):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1432244060

:)

Looking great!!!!

Thanks for the positive comments guys. Fun to do and also fun to get positive (and motivating...) feedback. Don't plan on daily updates :p but just finished bleeding the brakes for the first time, as mentioned in yesterday's update. Kind of a big deal. The CliffsNotes version is it's done, working, and no leaks so far. For the whole story, I used my previously successful pressure bleed process. Hasn't let me down yet and doesn't require a helper. I've always used the CNC reservoirs, and came across their pressure cap I think based on another forum post some years ago. I used the Tilton reservoirs on this build due to space limitations, but still wanted to use the same process. So bought an extra cap and added the Schrader valve to it. I didn't plan ahead and didn't want to run around finding one, so just "borrowed" the valve off the CNC cap. Screwed it into the plastic cap with a little sealant and it seem to hold the low pressure required just fine. I used the same Valvoline DOT 3/4 synthetic brake fluid I've used on all my builds. Stock item at our local Advance, not expensive, and supposed to be good fluid.

The process I use is first do a "bench bleed" with temporary lines from the MC's back to the reservoirs. With fluid covering the end of the lines, pump the pedal until there's a full flow of fluid back into the reservoirs. Some have suggested this step isn't necessary when pressure bleeding. But it's the process I've used and not difficult, so sticking with it. With that done and the actual brake lines back on the MC's, start the actual bleeding. I turned my compressor down to 5/6/7 PSI, and used that to first pressurize the rear reservoir. It doesn't take a lot and you don't want to over pressurize. Then to the right rear caliper and attach a line to the outside top bleeder. The big Wilwoods have a top bleeder on each caliper for the rear brakes. With the line into my official brake bleeding Ball jar, open the bleeder. Note at no time during this method of bleeding do you pump the brake pedal while the reservoir is under pressure. The reservoir may need to be pressurized several times on the first try as the lines fill with fluid. But then fluid with bubbles and eventually no bubbles. Repeat for the inner caliper. Then to the left rear, then the right front, then the left front. Keep pressure in the appropriate reservoir. Also watch the fluid level, refilling as needed. If it runs empty, then you'd have to start the whole process over.

Once completed the first time, I didn't have a completely hard pedal. So ran around the bleed process again. Only takes 10 minutes or so. Found a few bubbles still in the rear lines. First time that's happened, but no big deal. Then the pedal was hard just like it should be. Tested the brakes by having my shop assistant (my wife...) press the pedal as I turned each wheel. All grab hard and release properly. Hooray! Held the pedal down hard for a minute or so and it seems to be holding fine. Checked all my fittings and no sign of any leaks. That's a relief because I really don't want to mess around (again) with those SS lines and fittings. Obviously I'll keep checking, but looks good for now. Since I had all the bleeding gear out, went around one more time and bled each again for good measure. Didn't get a single bubble anywhere. So I think it's good to go. Topped off the reservoirs and cleaned everything up and put away. Man I don't like working with brake fluid. Glad it's done for now. Little more ahead for the clutch, but that should be simple with a single bleed.

Quick picture of the Tilton homemade pressure cap. Obviously now removed and replaced with the real cap.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1533239011

The valvoline synthetic fluid is what I used for years in my track day/autocross car. 80% of the heat resilience at 10% the cost of fancy racing fluids. I alwaus found that if I boiled fluid it was because of improper pad selection and temperatures were such that any fluid would fail.

Regarding powdercoating, I recently pulled my panels out of the box after a year and a half, and seeing the oxidation on the panels that had been in my florida garage next to the ones from the box, I am convinced that all panels need some protection.

Today I finished how I’m going to install the seats. I wanted to get this done before starting the cockpit insulation while it’s easy to see everything. Plus I need to sort out my heated seat wiring before spraying on the insulation. My normal method is to bury the wires in the corner of the floor/trans tunnel on each side. My previous builds have all been the standard Roadster seats where the bottom cushion swings up exposing the seat frame for easy access. Plus I haven’t done sliders before. Only bolted directly to the cockpit floor. With the Corbeau seats I showed earlier, no option for either. With them in place, it became very obvious reaching under the seats to install mounting bolts would be challenging if not impossible. Especially for the rear bolts. I decided to mount them with 3/8"-16 button head alloy steel screws from the bottom into the cockpit with nuts fixed to the slider frame. After looking at several options, decided to use 3/8"-16 weld nuts from McMaster (where else?) located and riveted to the frame. These: https://www.mcmaster.com/#90955a123/=1e1xnql.

So the challenge was to establish the locations for the mounting bolts, taking into account the seat positions, slider frames, and acceptable mounting locations on the chassis. There is a seat pan welded into the chassis. But how to find the proper locations? After staring at it for a while (I do that…) decided to make cardboard patterns for each side that exactly indexed to the slider frame on three sides and extended 6-8 inches out the front. Then with the seats in the appropriate locations, marked the position of the patterns with tape. They were out in front of the seats and could be reached. Then took the seats out and used the patterns to determine the locations of each mounting bolt. As it turned out, I was able to get 3 of the 4 into the seat pan on each side. But one (the front inside on both sides) needed to go through a frame rail.

With the locations determined, drilled the cockpit floor, matching locations in the slider frame, installed the weld nuts onto the frames, and a little while ago fit everything together. Success! I’m very happy with how this turned out, and will be relatively easy to install and remove since all four bolts are accessible from under the car. The nuts move around slightly in the retainers, so makes getting them started a little less critical. Once in and tight, the seats are rock solid. Both seats will slide forward six inches or so. But not sure how often that will be required. Even for me (5’10”) the rear position on the driver’s seat is fine. Basically the same exact distance from the steering wheel and pedals as my Roadster. Side note: These seats work very well for me (discussed before) but for taller builders may not be the best choice. Different seats could locate another couple inches at least further back than these. Another side note: Found the passenger seat was most comfortable turned slightly to the outside. The passenger footbox is slightly offset to the right, and found the seating was more comfortable slightly favored to that side. Barely noticeable. But makes a difference. And yet another side note, the seat location, the location of the underlying seat pan, plus the seat type I selected, all work together to make an anti-sub belt not practical. I'm looking right now at Schroth Profi II ASM belts. Designed to be 4-point while still providing anti-submarine function. Nice but pricey to say the least. Trying to sell my kit provided Simpsons if anyone is interested.

With that, some pictures. This is the pattern attached to the passenger seat and the resulting index marks after determining the desired location. Same process for the drivers side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1533655510

These are the two patterns (made from Ram Board, mentioned in a previous update) in their desired locations. Marked the location of the seat frame, tracks, underlying seat pan and frame rails, etc. From that, determined the four mounting locations for each side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1533655481

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1533655473

Slider frames with the holes drilled in the frame and cockpit floor, and all eight weld nuts installed. First time checking the fit and everything aligned. Whew! I did throw a little rattle can black on the weld nuts before riveting them in place. Not visible, but plain steel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1533655466

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1533655459

Seats installed now in their final locations.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1533655492

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1533655500

One of the interesting challenges of the Coupe is climbing in and out. Efforts to date have been a little clumsy, to say the least. Today I learned (and am relieved!) that having the seats bolted down makes a big difference. Passenger side is relatively easy. Driver’s side would be easier without the steering wheel (I can see why some guys go with a removable wheel) but I can manage OK. Obviously it will also make a difference with the body, the doors, etc. But way easier getting in and out with fixed seats versus when they were loose and sliding around.

Shortest update in my history. Heard from several sources that my planned BFGoodrich G-Force Rival S tires were in short supply. Have them on #8674 and am happy with them, so not interested in finding something else at this point. Took a few tries, but found the sizes I wanted at Tire Rack and today they're in my garage. P275/35ZR-18 for the front, P315/30ZR-18 for the rear. Will get them mounted and I'll have a roller.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1533745471

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Originally Posted by edwardb

Another quick update. Today finished the center switch panel. Wrapped it with the same C-F like vinyl used on my gauge panel. A little tedious, but it’s done and turned out nice I think. Also worked more on the overall layout of all the electrical components. I mounted the previously discussed modules across the top of the upper transmission tunnel cover. They’re pretty much out of the way of the main wiring harness and HVAC ducts. Plus hidden by the switch panel. So I think (hope) it’s all going to fit and be reasonably accessible if needed. This is the completed switch panel with everything mounted. Managed to sink quite a few hours into this with the design and fabrication. Lots going on, even though doesn't quite look like it now. One last minute surprise. Had to make a cutout in the switch panel base and trans cover for a corner of the Cole Hersee wiper/washer switch. It's pretty big. Then made a little sheet metal cover for the underside to seal it up. Always something.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1530904496

Left to right – relays for the headlight reminder and fog lights, headlight control module, keyless push button start module, reverse lock-out module. Have to get everything hooked up, but this is a start.

Here’s the gauge cluster and switch panel in my now nearly completed dash. Lots of work to do obviously for all those wires hanging into the footbox. As mentioned before, planning vinyl on the front and top of the dash, with red stitching that matches my seats across the top front. No brow piece. The two trans covers will also be vinyl covered, with red stitching along the corners. The glove box door will probably be the same vinyl as the dash. I'll look at using the C-F style vinyl, although that might be too much. But coming together now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1530904513

The switch panel is held in place with six screws through the bottom of the trans cover, all accessible from underneath, and two into the underside of the dash. With those screws removed, the panel will slide out. The gauge cluster is captured between the dash and the upper dash tube at the top and three screws along the bottom. With the switch panel and those three screws removed, it will tip out. At that point, all the wiring should be accessible, including the modules pictured previously. Both the upper and lower trans covers also will be removable. None of that would be real quick but possible. Hopefully won’t be necessary.

That’s a good head start on electrical. Basically fabrication is completed and ready for wiring. But going to take all this out and get going on permanently mounting panels and getting everything insulated. Then wiring can be finalized.

Family visits and other stuff going on for the next couple weeks, so progress will be slowed a little. That’s OK. With the warmer weather it’s been a little warm in the garage. Received another update on the Gen 3 Coyote. Saying “end of August” is looking pretty good. That works.

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This is looking very nice. Can you give some details on how you countersink those flush rivets and bolts? What sort of materials/tools you used? I was wondering how to get good results in the thin gauge aluminum panels.

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Originally Posted by edwardb

These are the two patterns (made from Ram Board, mentioned in a previous update) in their desired locations. Marked the location of the seat frame, tracks, underlying seat pan and frame rails, etc. From that, determined the four mounting locations for each side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1533655481

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1533655473

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I thought I was the only one that used Ram Board for templates. Great minds think alike. Great work Dude!

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Originally Posted by shark92651

This is looking very nice. Can you give some details on how you countersink those flush rivets and bolts? What sort of materials/tools you used? I was wondering how to get good results in the thin gauge aluminum panels.

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Thanks. Really nothing too earth shattering going on there. I use a 100 degree countersink like this one https://www.mcmaster.com/#2742a35/=1e2kmht and plain old 1/8-inch aluminum rivets. Set them with a small anvil and hammer. For screws, use the same countersink and 100 degree screws like these https://www.mcmaster.com/#90471a210/=1e2knbs. The shallow countersink angle allows them to be used in thinner material. In both cases, I make sure to get the countersink at or slightly below the surface, and then use JB Weld as a filler and sand flat. They completely disappear under the dash covering.

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Originally Posted by i.e.427

I thought I was the only one that used Ram Board for templates. Great minds think alike. Great work Dude!

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Thanks. It does work really well for patterns. I had never heard of Ram Board until last year when we had some work done on our house. The contractor put Ram Board down on our wood floors for protection. Served its intended use but I realized it had a more noble purpose. :D

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Originally Posted by edwardb

Thanks. Really nothing too earth shattering going on there. I use a 100 degree countersink like this one https://www.mcmaster.com/#2742a35/=1e2kmht and plain old 1/8-inch aluminum rivets. Set them with a small anvil and hammer. For screws, use the same countersink and 100 degree screws like these https://www.mcmaster.com/#90471a210/=1e2knbs. The shallow countersink angle allows them to be used in thinner material. In both cases, I make sure to get the countersink at or slightly below the surface, and then use JB Weld as a filler and sand flat. They completely disappear under the dash covering.

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Thanks, I'm pretty sure my problem was my countersinks - I think they are 82 degrees. I ordered a 100 degree so hopefully will get better results.

I love those AC knobs you chose can those be purchased through the supplier you chose and any part numbers you can share? Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge

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Originally Posted by i.e.427

I thought I was the only one that used Ram Board for templates. Great minds think alike. Great work Dude!

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Yeah, sure, but I'm more of a Miller High Life box kind of guy. I seem to have an almost never ending supply of those around here although there was that one time I called Nancy and asked her to pick up a case on the way home...she said "Surely you aren't out of beer". I replied "I'm not, but I am out of cardboard---and don't call me Shirley" :)

Jeff

Paul, I have been following your build for some time now. you are not only a good builder, but an excellent technical writer. I am visiting the factory on Monday (8/13)and expect to place my order for a type 65 coupe. as have many others, I will be using your build threads for guidance. I am about 3.5 hrs from you. would it be possible to come up and see your build. "a picture is worth a thousand words."

thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowledge / experience with us.

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Originally Posted by P100DHG

I love those AC knobs you chose can those be purchased through the supplier you chose and any part numbers you can share? Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge

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Those knobs come with the Factory Five Gen 3 AC-Heater kit. Maybe with others as well. I asked for and received another so my wiper-washer knob would match. I'm going to label them or put icons on them. Still looking at options.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

Yeah, sure, but I'm more of a Miller High Life box kind of guy. I seem to have an almost never ending supply of those around here although there was that one time I called Nancy and asked her to pick up a case on the way home...she said "Surely you aren't out of beer". I replied "I'm not, but I am out of cardboard---and don't call me Shirley" :) Jeff

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We have clearance, Clarence. But don't get me started on the Airplane quotes. Too funny.

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Originally Posted by kehenline

Paul, I have been following your build for some time now. you are not only a good builder, but an excellent technical writer. I am visiting the factory on Monday (8/13)and expect to place my order for a type 65 coupe. as have many others, I will be using your build threads for guidance. I am about 3.5 hrs from you. would it be possible to come up and see your build. "a picture is worth a thousand words."

thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowledge / experience with us.

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Thanks for the generous comments. I have visitors pretty regularly and you're welcome to stop by. Send me a PM when you're settling on a date/time. My schedule is usually pretty flexible. Enjoy the factory visit. It's very interesting and I think you'll be impressed.

Great detail on the build. I'm debating mk4 vs new coupe. The Corbeau seats look fantastic. They seem to hit the roof or get really close? Makes me think I may not fit at 6'3" I'm curious how tall you are? and how the taller folks have fit in a coupe?

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Originally Posted by merim123

Great detail on the build. I'm debating mk4 vs new coupe. The Corbeau seats look fantastic. They seem to hit the roof or get really close? Makes me think I may not fit at 6'3" I'm curious how tall you are? and how the taller folks have fit in a coupe?

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I am 6'5" and have a few pounds to many. I can not answer for the Corebau seats but the Coupe in the FF showroom fit me like a glove. The car has the low back vintage race seats (15478). I do, however, have to practice getting in and out of the car.

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Originally Posted by merim123

Great detail on the build. I'm debating mk4 vs new coupe. The Corbeau seats look fantastic. They seem to hit the roof or get really close? Makes me think I may not fit at 6'3" I'm curious how tall you are? and how the taller folks have fit in a coupe?

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

I am 6'5" and have a few pounds to many. I can not answer for the Corebau seats but the Coupe in the FF showroom fit me like a glove. The car has the low back vintage race seats (15478). I do, however, have to practice getting in and out of the car.

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Agreed for 6'3" (or 6'5") the Corbeau seats that we've selected and installed wouldn't be the right choice. I'm 5'10" and my wife several inches shorter, so for us they're just right plus they're the look I was going for. They don't hit the roof. They're tight against the outer roll bar cage, but that doesn't appear to be an issue. Some seats have a narrower headrest, or would be lower. Factory Five made the door opening and height/legroom a priority with the Gen 3 Coupe, so I'm confident much taller owners will fit. Like Sigurd said. But with different seats. When I sat in the showroom model at Factory Five, I dropped into the Kirkey race seats and was barely looking over the steering wheel. Felt like I was in 6th grade in my father's Oldsmobile. Knew right then we'd have to find different seats. I ordered mine with the standard Roadster seats, knowing I could sell them which is what I did. Made maybe a little more than with just deleting the seats outright. Then shopped for what would work best for us. No matter what you do though, I highly recommend high backs. The roll bar cage is directly behind your head.

Another eventful week or so on the build. First up was finally finishing all the panel installations for now plus getting all the gaps and openings filled, e.g. around frame members, door hinges, etc. Lots of different products possible for gap filling. For #8674, with the special white and glimmer frame and panels, found a product called Marine-Tex Epoxy Putty. Just so happened to come in white and grey (very dark, almost black) so perfect for the Anniversary Roadster build. The stuff’s been around for a long time I guess. I really like how it worked, so went back to that product on this build. Used the grey which blends well with the gloss black frame and dark grey powder coated panels. I mentioned before that where I pre-installed the sound and heat insulation, I left the products long where there were gaps and openings to fill. That worked perfect as a backer for the Marine-Tex. Mostly it’s kind of like caulking a bathtub or whatever. Except I use masking tape to keep it from going everywhere. Process: Mask around the area, glop in the filler, smooth with precision digit (e.g. my finger), and pull the tape. Little tedious, but everything is done. Also I installed the seat heater wires. As I've done before, glued into the inside corners of the cockpit and up the footbox tunnel on each side. They're be buried by the insulation and carpet. Next step is to spray Lizard Skin, which I plan to start next week. The usual process. Multiple hours masking, minutes to spray. I’ll do the sound product on one day, and the heat product on the second.

In the meantime, couple other updates. I showed my new tires in a previous post. Today I was able to get them mounted, balanced, and on the chassis. As always, a bit of a story. For #8674, I had the same exact rims and almost the same tires. Took them to a tire store that was highly recommended. They immediately got hung up on the valve stems and tried quite unsuccessfully to install bolt in stems and scratched up one of the rims in the process. I’ve posted about this a couple times before. After a call to Factory Five, right from the store, received instructions to use plain old TR413 rubber pull through stems. With a little lube and a twist, installed fine. They got the job done, but I wasn’t too happy with them and I think they were happy to see me go. Obviously, wasn’t interested in going back this time. Took the tires and rims to my local big chain tire store. The guy there was very friendly and helpful, but didn’t want to install the tires because of the rims. They don’t have touchless equipment, and he pretty much promised they would scratch the rims. So did some more checking and ended up at a high-end shop that our club visited a couple years ago. They’re used to Ferrari’s, Lambos, Bimmers, etc. but were happy to do mine. They have a nearly new Corghi touchless tire wheel mounting machine (made in Italy, approved for Ferrari :cool:) and also a pretty new and modern Hunter Road Force wheel balancer. When I explained about the TR413 valve stems (didn't want to repeat that problem again...) the guy immediately understood and said "Yea, just like a Ferrari." Have to like that. Got to watch the whole time, which I found very interesting and the guy doing the work was super careful. For a couple of the tires, he broke the bead and rotated the tires on the wheels to reduce the balance weights required. It worked. Nice. The price was less than the quote I had from the big chain store. Got them home and mounted. Now we’re getting somewhere. Finally a roller. The 275's in front look like they're going to fit just fine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1534535630

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1534535621

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1534535613

Another open topic has been the seat harnesses. Of course my kit came with the usual Simpson 5-point harness I’ve used previously and most other builders do as well. I’ve always used the 5th anti-submarine belt on previous builds. For some seats and some installations, they don’t fit too well and people leave them out. Not a good idea IMO. Early on I realized the Corbeau seats I selected weren’t going to play nice with the anti-submarine belt. Plus where the seats ended up the steel seat pan wasn’t available for mounting. Early in the build thread another forum member suggested I look at Schroth Profi ASM harnesses. Over the last couple of weeks I did and short version, have them and test mounted. These are designed to be 4-point and still provide anti-submarine protection. Their website shows how it works, crash tests, etc. Pretty interesting. Shopped around and found the best price for their Schroth Profi II ASM FE product. These have a Push-Button Cam lock which is really nice. Note they also have to be sided. So there is a different part number for the driver and passenger side. They come in several colors. I chose red. Big surprise. Now I’m fully committed. Mocked them up today and I’m very impressed. I’ll do the wrap on the roll bar when it’s time for final assembly. I was able to sell my NIB Simpsons for a decent price on the forum, so that helped offset some of the cost. But they still needed another chunk of change. They’re very high quality, made in Germany, and not cheap to say the least. Once again, what budget? Couple pics:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1534535586

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1534535576

Checked in with my contact at Ford Performance again earlier this week. Still very promising the Gen 3 crate Coyote will be released to the general public by the end of August. Looks like the timing is going to work as I’ve been hoping. Tomorrow is the Woodward Dream Cruise here in SE Michigan, projected at 1 million participants and more than 40,000 cars of every shape and size. If you're a car person, you probably would like it. If not, it's just one big giant traffic jam and loud party. Many that don't participate leave town this week. Too bad. Our club has an event right in the heart of everything with lots happening. Weather looks promising, so looking forward to it as always.

That looks absolutely beautiful!!!!!

Are you leaving the foam around the roll bars?

Awesome job Paul, the Coupe is coming along great.

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Originally Posted by Automan

Are you leaving the foam around the roll bars?

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All of the foam is just cheap pipe insulation from HD intended to keep me from scratching things up during the build and is temporary. I will be adding something permanent on the roll bar sections above the doors. They're quite close to the driver and passenger heads. Something that's specifically made for that purpose. Everything else is far enough away once you're belted in.

Wow, haven't checked in for awhile!! Its looking like a race car! As always great work and write ups.
Higgy

Looks so cool as a roller....but I must ask have you actually rolled it anywhere to make it official? haha Lets get that thing out in the sun for a picture!
Really nice to hear the guy at the big box tire store was honest about the likelihood of scratching.