Papa's Retirement Type 65 Coupe Build - Index in first post

Dave - I am following your console work closely, really like the direction it's going.

Relating to your first couple of pictures. It looks like the flange of your fuel tank is flush to the frame members on either end (which appears to be the correct way). Can you confirm this please? My tank sits about 1/4" off the perimeter frame members. I have been reluctant to really reef down on the two flange bolts to try and snug it up as they are pretty tight now.

I don't really see any conflicts between the tank and any fixed objects so I had somewhat resigned myself this was the way the tank fits until I looked closely at your photos.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

Dave - I am following your console work closely, really like the direction it's going.

Relating to your first couple of pictures. It looks like the flange of your fuel tank is flush to the frame members on either end (which appears to be the correct way). Can you confirm this please? My tank sits about 1/4" off the perimeter frame members. I have been reluctant to really reef down on the two flange bolts to try and snug it up as they are pretty tight now.

I don't really see any conflicts between the tank and any fixed objects so I had somewhat resigned myself this was the way the tank fits until I looked closely at your photos.

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Tim,

My tank does sit flat against the frame on the sides and back. Did you bend the tank flange flat at the strap locations both front and back?

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Originally Posted by Papa

Tim,

My tank does sit flat against the frame on the sides and back. Did you bend the tank flange flat at the strap locations both front and back?

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I did bend them flat. It's just a little odd. I am going to take a close look today and see what I can discover. Do you recall if your tank went flush to the rails when you jacked/lifted it into place or did you pull if flush with the strap bolts? I tightened mine to what seemed a pretty snug amount, and I'm not sure further tightening would pull the tank any higher.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

I did bend them flat. It's just a little odd. I am going to take a close look today and see what I can discover. Do you recall if your tank went flush to the rails when you jacked/lifted it into place or did you pull if flush with the strap bolts? I tightened mine to what seemed a pretty snug amount, and I'm not sure further tightening would pull the tank any higher.

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Mine went in flat, Tim. You might need to fiddle a bit with it to get it to go all the way up. I can't imagine what it could be getting hung up on.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

I did bend them flat. It's just a little odd. I am going to take a close look today and see what I can discover. Do you recall if your tank went flush to the rails when you jacked/lifted it into place or did you pull if flush with the strap bolts? I tightened mine to what seemed a pretty snug amount, and I'm not sure further tightening would pull the tank any higher.

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Mine went in flat as well. I put some adhesive backed foam between the frame and the tank. Also made sure it was not rubbing on the vertical frame mounts where the bolts go through.

Today I finished up fitting and drilling the rear hatch/trunk of the car.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1761849906

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1761849906

I want to get the rest of the odds-and-ends panels fitted that can be done without the body on the car and then it will be time to pull everything off to go to powder coat. I'm thinking of doing all the under-hood panels in a gunmetal gray color and all the interior panels in a satin black finish.

I'm also considering adding a couple of Brent's access panels in the rear panel to make it easier to get to the lighing connections that will be behind there.

Looking good Dave. I love following your build

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Originally Posted by TBull

Looking good Dave. I love following your build

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Thanks, Dan!

Looks good Dave. I just sent the last few pieces of that back end to powder coat.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

Looks good Dave. I just sent the last few pieces of that back end to powder coat.

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It's time to go meet the powder coater!

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Originally Posted by Papa

Today I finished up fitting and drilling the rear hatch/trunk of the car.

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Nice progress, Dave. It's amazing how many holes we drill on these builds!

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Originally Posted by 460.465USMC

Nice progress, Dave. It's amazing how many holes we drill on these builds!

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Thanks, Chris. I'm happy to be sort of done with that task now. There are still more to do after the body goes on, but some of those will wait until after paint. I have a little time to rest my drill.

Let's talk about a little chemistry today that can be a relevant concern with our builds. Specifically, I want to discuss galvanic corrosion.

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Galvanic corrosion is an electrochemical process where two dissimilar metals in contact with an electrolyte (like saltwater or moisture) form a galvanic cell, similar to a battery. This causes the more reactive metal to corrode preferentially as the anode, while the more noble metal is protected as the cathode. The three conditions required are: two dissimilar metals, an electrical connection between them, and an electrolyte

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The following chart helps us understand which metals are more likely to produce galvanic corrosion.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1762184263

To interpret the chart, select one of the metals on the left axis and follow that row until it intersects with the column for the second metal. If the cell at the intersection is blue, there is risk of galvanic corrosion.

Most of us don't think twice about pulling a stainless-steel rivet or tapping threads in our carbon steel chassis to thread in screws for various things we want to attach to the chassis. We typically use stainless-steel screws because we are trying to prevent rust (corrosion) on the hardware. Unfortunately, by doing so we have introduced two of the three conditions that lead to galvanic corrosion; putting dissimilar metals in contact with each other and creating the electrical connection (simply making a conductive connection between the two metals). All that remains to start the galvanic corrosion process is an electrolyte (moisture).

So, we have options when deciding how to mitigate galvanic corrosion. First, we can choose to use compatible (similar) metals. This isn't always possible, so the second way to mitigate the issue is to prevent the metals from being exposed to an electrolyte. This means keeping moisture away from the metal. We all say we never plan to drive these cars in the rain, but it is inevitable that we can someday find ourselves away from the garage in the rain. Also, keep in mind that it doesn't take a ton of water, like rain, but even high humidity can trigger the reaction. Lastly, we can break the electrical conductivity of the metals in some way. For threaded connections, a bit of thread locker may be all that is needed, but there are better products designed specifically for this that I recently came across.

A product called Tef-Gel is one that is frequently called out in the marine industry where stainless-steel is widely used along with aluminum and other metals. Tef-Gel works by coating the fastener with a non-conductive material that also shields the material/part from moisture. It gets applied when the parts are assembled and that's it. Tef-Gel also acts as an anti-seize to prevent threads from galling or becoming stuck to each other.

I plan to use Tef-Gel for any stainless fasteners, screws and rivets, that I attach directly to the chassis.

Thank you for sharing that bit of information. I've been researching and planning my build for a while now, and galvanic corrosion was nowhere on my radar. I'll add that to my build notes!

Professor Papa, thanks for the lesson! I admit to mostly turning a blind eye to this problem. Wishful thinking

While I have known about galvanic corrosion, I was not aware of this product you called out.

Quite frankly, I just *assumed* everyone knew about galvanic corrosion. Just putting my engine together with stainless steel fasteners, from ARP, I have probably kept Permatex alive and well with all the anti-seize compound I have gone through.

I'll look into this Tef-Gel. Thanks for the heads up!

To add on to that Galvanic Corrosion chart. There is a diagonal line through the middle where it's like metal w/ like metal.

Anything above or below that line is at risk for corrosion, because you can have a steel and aluminum combo both above and below the diagonal line. Above the line in the blue area indicates the metal that will corrode worse in that scenario.

Also the farther away you get from that diagonal line the worse the issue becomes. So steel and aluminum have a mild reaction compared to titanium and aluminum. Not that any of it is good when you're trying to remove a seized fastener.

I've also never heard of Tef-Gel, but I will be giving that one a try!
Thanks,
Jon

Invaluable info Papa Dave thank you … you wouldn’t happen to have a link as to where to buy the Tef-Gel ? I’ll purchase today just sayin ….

Neverming found it on Amazon on the way Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by JTG

To add on to that Galvanic Corrosion chart. There is a diagonal line through the middle where it's like metal w/ like metal.

Anything above or below that line is at risk for corrosion, because you can have a steel and aluminum combo both above and below the diagonal line. Above the line in the blue area indicates the metal that will corrode worse in that scenario.

Also the farther away you get from that diagonal line the worse the issue becomes. So steel and aluminum have a mild reaction compared to titanium and aluminum. Not that any of it is good when you're trying to remove a seized fastener.

I've also never heard of Tef-Gel, but I will be giving that one a try!
Thanks,
Jon

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Jon,

Thank you for the added information on interpreting the chart I posted.

Dave

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Originally Posted by Lugnut Mark

Invaluable info Papa Dave thank you … you wouldn’t happen to have a link as to where to buy the Tef-Gel ? I’ll purchase today just sayin ….

Neverming found it on Amazon on the way Thanks again!

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Mark,

I found it from several sources. I clicked the easy button for me and ordered it from Amazon.

Dave

Hi Dave,

that is a cool and interesting chart. Any chance you can upload as a PDF. I would like to print a copy to put with other quick reference info I keep in the work shop.

Here is a example of a metric / imperial conversion chart I put up a few years ago on this forum.
Attachment 221028

Cheers,

Nige

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Originally Posted by Nigel Allen

Hi Dave,

that is a cool and interesting chart. Any chance you can upload as a PDF. I would like to print a copy to put with other quick reference info I keep in the work shop.

Here is a example of a metric / imperial conversion chart I put up a few years ago on this forum.
Attachment 221028

Cheers,

Nige

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Here you go! If the attachment isn't what you need, this chart is all over the Internet in many versions.

Dave

Perfect.

Cheers,

Nige

Corrosion control and treating for potential galvanic corrosion was definitely a thing for my airplane build. For obvious reasons. The kit instructions called it out for any dissimilar metals. Most typically was the combination of SS and aluminum. I used https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...kCorrosion.php. Maybe not quite as critical on a car build but certainly a good build practice to consider. Easy enough to do.

I worked on the two front splash panels today. Not a difficult task but took some time since I also powder coated the brake line fittings where the braided lines transition to the hard lines. After initially fitting the panels, I followed the example of others and made some openings along the front edge of the panels to route the brake lines through.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1762290789

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1762290789

These openings will allow me to route the lines similar to how Paul did, but with some minor adjustments for routing along the tubing where the battery mount is, and to install and remove the panels after the brake lines are installed without opening the lines and having to re-bleed the brakes.

I spoke with the powder coater and they can certainly do the work. To get an estimate for the panels that are ready, I'll need to provide measurements (surface area in square inches). Does anyone that has had their panels done happen to have any information on area that they can share? If not, I'll create a spreadsheet to document what each panel I pull measures out in surface area.

Dave

It's been a few days since I've posted anything, so I thought I'd update the thread on what I've been up to. I've started pulling panels off for powder coating. I'm building a spreadsheet with the part name, quantity, and surface area of each panel to provide to the powder coater for an estimate. I've ordered and received a set of color swatches from Prismatic Powders to see if I want to go forward with using two colors on my panels. I'm now leaning toward just a single color, but haven't decided on what that will be yet.

I'm waiting on a test panel that I should receive tomorrow for the console. Once I get that fitted and trimmed (if necessary) I'll pull the remaining cockpit panels off and start working on brake and fuel lines.

I've also been considering how I want to finish the dash. One thing I've been looking at is wrapping the instrument cluster panel with a carbon fiber material. While looking at options, I came across some 3k twill mate finish carbon fiber panels in different thicknesses. I'm considering using one of these for the instrument panel instead of wrapping the aluminum. I'm still undecided on what to do with the rest of the dash. I like the idea of leather, but may just do a powder coat on the aluminum and leave it at that.

A bonus I discovered while looking through the A/C parts to get measurements of the control panel is that the panel I received is much better looking than the panels I've seen in earlier builds that folks have tried to dress up in different ways.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1762803802

Wow, I like that way more than the included FFR branded plate. Is there a Vintage Air part number on that?

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Originally Posted by bishes

Wow, I like that way more than the included FFR branded plate. Is there a Vintage Air part number on that?

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It's actually a Siroco part:

https://www.siroco-hvac.com/en/accessories/controls/

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Originally Posted by Papa

It's actually a Siroco part:

https://www.siroco-hvac.com/en/accessories/controls/

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I was pleasantly surprised with that part when going through inventory. The knobs have a nice solid feel to them.

Going through their catalog, I also like the look of the air diffuser with the metal bezel better than the plastic parts shipped with the kit. It looks like sourcing them may be difficult however.

https://www.siroco-hvac.com/en/produ...i-84-diffuser/

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Originally Posted by JTG

I was pleasantly surprised with that part when going through inventory. The knobs have a nice solid feel to them.

Going through their catalog, I also like the look of the air diffuser with the metal bezel better than the plastic parts shipped with the kit. It looks like sourcing them may be difficult however.

https://www.siroco-hvac.com/en/produ...i-84-diffuser/

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I've been looking at these:

Check out this page from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-38110

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Originally Posted by Papa

I've been looking at these:

Check out this page from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bsp-38110

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That seems like a nice balance of style and price. Some of the vents I've found were gorgeous but over $800 for a set of four vents is not in our budget.
Like the products from Restomod Air... I need to stop looking at their website before spending my money on something silly.

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Originally Posted by JTG

That seems like a nice balance of style and price. Some of the vents I've found were gorgeous but over $800 for a set of four vents is not in our budget.
Like the products from Restomod Air... I need to stop looking at their website before spending my money on something silly.

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I've been waiting on Restomod Air to have a Sale/Promo for a year. Nothing. Can't believe they can keep a business going with those prices. Beautiful stuff though

I've been sidelined the past few days with a cold, so the only real progress I can post is the additional damage to my checking account. It seems being relegated to my study sitting in front of my computer results in more spending.

I ordered the Specialty Power Windows WWK-2 kit used by many others and planned from the start for my build. I saw that they offer a more expensive "Deluxe" kit that includes flexible tubing instead of the rigid tubing for the cable. I already have some nickel-copper tubing left over from my Cobra wiper install, so I just went with the standard kit.

I also ordered a Moroso 63761 Coolant Expansion Tank for the 2024+ Mustang that I think might work better than the one that has been frequently used on builds here. I grabbed mine on Amazon for $273, about $45 less than any other place I found it. It looks like I may have gotten the last one at that price! I'll have until the end of the year to return it if it looks like it won't work, so I figured I'd give it a try.

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Originally Posted by Papa

I've been sidelined the past few days with a cold, so the only real progress I can post is the additional damage to my checking account. It seems being relegated to my study sitting in front of my computer results in more spending.

I ordered the Specialty Power Windows WWK-2 kit used by many others and planned from the start for my build. I saw that they offer a more expensive "Deluxe" kit that includes flexible tubing instead of the rigid tubing for the cable. I already have some nickel-copper tubing left over from my Cobra wiper install, so I just went with the standard kit.

I also ordered a Moroso 63761 Coolant Expansion Tank for the 2024+ Mustang that I think might work better than the one that has been frequently used on builds here. I grabbed mine on Amazon for $273, about $45 less than any other place I found it. It looks like I may have gotten the last one at that price! I'll have until the end of the year to return it if it looks like it won't work, so I figured I'd give it a try.

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Hope you get better.

1. I don't think that's the difference between the WWK-2 and WWW-2L. I've installed their kits on two different builds. They've always been flexible spring-like drive cables inside rigid tubing that you bend between the components. Looks like the difference is actually a 2-speed switch vs. one that adds a delay. https://www.specialtypowerwindows.co...eld-wiper-kits. The switch looks like the Cole Hersee 75600-04 (or something similar) I used in my Coupe which has the delay/intermittent function.

2. I'll be interested in how you plumb that newer version Moroso tank. I'm really squeezed for space on my Mk5 build and looks like that one is a little more compact.

Brent just posted an announcement for a new dash extension part he's made available as of today. I was his Guinea Pig for this part since I was trying to develop my own version. After running it by Brent, he told me he was already working on something nearly identical. Now that the prototype is done and the part is in production, I thought I'd share some additional details.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1763149524

The part is very easy to install to the upper trans tunnel cover provided by Factory Five. You simply attach two brackets to that panel and then mount Brent's new panel using machine screws that go in through the sides.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1763149720

The panel can be adjusted by trimming to fit or by adjusting the placement to align with the dash. If more adjustment is needed, the holes on the panel can be enlarged and you can use a larger head screw. The panel is designed to be removable to provide access behind it. I also have Brent's front and lower transmission tunnel panels that close in the area under the FFR upper trans cover. Brent's new extension will allow me to modify the FFR panel to provide access to that additional closed space. The panel doesn't attach to the dash at all, but could with a simple mounting tab.

Feeling better after dealing with a cold the past few days, I completed my list of parts for powder coating for the guy I plan to take the stuff to. With that, I have a spreadsheet now of all the panels and their surface area in square inches.

Attachment 221631

I'll continue to add parts down the road, but this first batch will be just the panels.

Thanks for the pc info …. Glad to hear your feeling better btw already purchased Brent’s dash extension kit he’s just waiting on my polished bezel then he’s going to send me a few more parts

No problem, Mark. The site won't let me upload the spreadsheet, so I just put a pdf file up. If you want the spreadsheet, just PM me an e-mail address.

I'm seriously considering the FormaCar power windows, so I'm holding off on coating any of the door parts right now.

With all the panels back off of the chassis, I started plumbing the brakes today. I kept all my tools from the Cobra build, so this one will cost a bit less!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1763416356

I ran the front cross-over similarly to what most others have done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1763416341

Next was the front primary line. Getting the bends I wanted to do made it quite the puzzle to fish the line into the footbox. I laid in the fuse panel to ensure I had plenty of clearance.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1763416341

I used a 90 degree fitting that came in the kit for the MC connection to keep the line as far away from the electrical as I could. I'll be using a straight fitting for the rear and clutch MC connections and will run those lines under the dash and into the tunnel.

I just used cushion clamps under the inside engine bay rail to secure the line.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1763416341

Finally, a quick check that I could still attach the front foot box and splash panels. Everything fits well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1763416341

Next up will be the rear lines. I need to study a few build threads to see how others have done theirs first.