Rick's Mark V Roadster Build

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Originally Posted by RKRacing

For those following this thread and have the FF A/C unit to install... flow the Coupe instructions https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...en-3-REV-G.pdf

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I used these instructions and they were good until I got to the wiring. It only has a picture and some of the wire colors seem off. I asked the FFR tech about the connector on the evaporator that has two purple wires. He was not sure what they were for as they are not called out in the diagram. As I was searching for answers I came across the AC instructions for the AC for the Hot Rod / Truck. There is a lot of information here for the wiring. Including the two purple wire connector! I am going to check it out tomorrow and see if it helps me understand the wiring.

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https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...ck-Hot-Rod.pdf

Today I installed the AC evaporator following the instructions in the Gen 3 AC pdf. It went pretty well and was easier than expected once I figured out where to place the evaporator. I started by trying to find a spot that would clear the frame rails, but still allow me to use the mounting points on the evaporator. The instructions have you using self-tapping screws and then using silicone to make sure there is no leak. Happy to report that by rotating it towards the outside I was able to do it. It is really secure and not going anywhere. I used two angle brackets and two of the supplied mounts. As a bonus the angle brackets help to hang it while you secure it.

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I then proceeded to cut the access panel. I was worried that I had wasted effort installing the panels, but it was actually easier as the panel is rigid when cutting. The panel gives plenty of room to work with the AC lines and to tighten the fittings when the time comes.

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I then proceeded to installing the firewall mount for the AC lines. I decided to use these instead of the grommets as I did not want to deal with figuring out what to do with the valves. This meant that I had to make the small line that connects the evaporator to the bulkhead connector. I was worried it would be difficult but making sure the connectors are as aligned as possible made it easier than expected.

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The next step was to install the drier. The tricky part is that you need to worry about the flow. From the diagrams provided with the evaporator, the flow is from the condenser to the evaporator. Hopefully I got this right. The last thing is to remove the nut that is covering the port for the trinary switch. It was really tight but I was able to get it off. I chose to mount it on the inside rail, but rivetted on the top of the rail instead of the bottom. Once that was done cutting the hose to length was simple. By the way I used a PVC pipe cutter I had to cut the hoses and it does it really well.

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And then I attached the heater hoses and the heater control valve. This was pretty straightforward. With the evaporator angled there is plenty of room for the hoses. I cut relief into the top panel for my angle brackets and then riveted the valve on the cover. I chose to not use the bulkhead connector for this as I don't see the value for the added complexity. I used the grommet holes I had drilled previously. The panel will be removable using rivet nuts. I hope to be able to add some sort of insulation to stop air intrusion into the cabin.

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It was a successful day. Tomorrow is my last day to work on the car for a month. I'm going to wire the AC. As I posted, I found the Hot Rod / Truck instructions have more detail. Hopefully that helps.

I finished plumbing the evaporator by running the drainage lines. No surprises and it went smoothly. I decided to run the lines out the front of the footbox instead of the floor as the instructions call for. Installed a grommet through the sheet metal and then a tie down to the frame. I thought you might see the line if I ran it through the floor.

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And now to the wiring of the AC. I used the pictured diagram from the Gen 3 instructions and some info from the Hot Rod / Truck instructions to come up with how to wire it. I decided to document how I connected it so that others can benefit as well as anyone with experience can correct me if I'm wrong. The AC harness has 6 connection points: Power in, Controls, Evaporator, Heater Control Valve, Trinary Switch, and Compressor. First I connected the Power in and Controls. There a three wires: red, black, and blue. I connected the red wire to the brown heater wire from the dash harness and the black wire to the chassis. I'm not really sure what to do with the blue wire yet. The diagram says to run it to the ground of the fuse block fan relay ground. The HR/T instructions are more complicated and gives choices on what controls the fan. I need to contact FFR / BluePrint and see what they say?

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Next I connected the Controls. This was the most complicated to figure out as there are several wires that are the same color. Using a multimeter I was able to determine that the red/black wires are simply connected together, the solo red wire goes to the red wire in the evaporator and the double red wire is connected to power. The control panel has three connections: temperature, fan and AC switch. The temperature knob has a bespoke connector with three wires. The fan switch has 5 connectors, H,M,L,B, & C. The AC switch has three connectors, 1,2, & 3. I could not find any documentation on the AC switch, but the diagram shows power, ground, and thermostat in the middle. 3 was a different color then 1 & 2 so I assume this is ground. Here is how I connected it.

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I then connected the Evaporator. This was simple as there are bespoke connectors. The only mystery is the two purple wires. According to the diagram these are for the thermostat. The HR/T instructions show connecting this to the brown/white connection from the AC harness.

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I then connected the heater valve harness. Again this was straightforward. It was just a matter of connecting all the same color wires together with butt connectors. I chose to mount the wiring block in the footbox and just run the loom to the valve rather than mounting it on the valve mount. I used solder-seal butt connectors. Really easy to use and seem much more reliable than crimp style connectors. https://a.co/d/a4yb8IW

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The last one to deal with was the Trinary switch. This was more complicated. The switch comes with two plastic connectors and the harness comes with male/female spade connectors. Two of the connectors were the wrong type so I had to cut them and solder in the right ones. Once this is all working, I plan to change the connectors to Weatherpack. Here is the diagram I used.

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Update:This wiring for trinary switch is wrong. I used the wiring in the Gen 3 coupe instructions. https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...en-3-REV-G.pdf

Finally I ran the harness. I used one the extra grommets that are provided with the AC kit. I used it for the Heater Valve wires and the AC harness.

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The only wires left will go to the compressor once I have it. That's it for a month or so until the engine arrives. So how many hours has it taken to get this far? 220 hours!! I have really enjoyed it so far.

I think I found my color….

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...mance-mkiii-2/

Quick question for the experts. Going to re-start the build next week, but was just informed by Blueprint that my transmission is not available. It was supposed to be a TKX with .81:1 OD. They said they have the .68:1 available and that would speed up delivery. I was told 1-4 are the same ratio and only 5th changes. I have the FFR IRS. I assume it means I'll have a lower cruising RPM traded for less response between 4th and 5th. I chose to go ahead with that new transmission. My logic is that I would only need to worry about 4th-5th response in a track situation. I will only track the car occasionally. Does anyone see any issues?

Rick,

I opted for the same transmission, I actually think it’s a better option in some ways. I’m mated to the 427 so I honestly think for my application it’s a better choice. I think that tranny is slightly more expensive, so hopefully that’s not an up charge for you. On most autocross tracks and short tracks, I don’t think you’ll ever see 5th. You might see it driving in the Hwy to the track.

I have a TKO with a .63 behind a 408W. The only time I use 5th is on the freeway. It's no fun in the twisties.

What’s the first gear ratio in the TKX (can be 3.27 or 2.87) and what rear end ratio do you have.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

What’s the first gear ratio in the TKX (can be 3.27 or 2.87) and what rear end ratio do you have.

Jeff

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I’m not sure. I can ask BP and FFR tomorrow. I did not specify so whatever the default is I imagine.

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Originally Posted by Reddrig

Rick,

I opted for the same transmission, I actually think it’s a better option in some ways. I’m mated to the 427 so I honestly think for my application it’s a better choice. I think that tranny is slightly more expensive, so hopefully that’s not an up charge for you. On most autocross tracks and short tracks, I don’t think you’ll ever see 5th. You might see it driving in the Hwy to the track.

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Agree. Back straight at Sebring and back straight at VIR. I’ll follow up on the up charge!

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Originally Posted by rickster991

I’m not sure. I can ask BP and FFR tomorrow. I did not specify so whatever the default is I imagine.

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The FFR build list says “ 2018 Mustang IRS 3.55 Center Section”…

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

What’s the first gear ratio in the TKX (can be 3.27 or 2.87) and what rear end ratio do you have.

Jeff

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I believe these are the stock ratios for that tranny. The only difference is 5th goes to 0.68

: 2.87:1 (1st), 1.89:1 (2nd), 1.28:1 (3rd), 1.00:1 (4th), and 0.81:1 (5th)

My driving is almost totally street cruising. I had a TKO (TCET4617) in one of my builds with the .82 5th gear for the reasons you mentioned. I liked having less of a gap between 4th and 5th and I could use 5th for lower speed cruising. But at highway speeds, the engine RPM was unnecessarily high and in the end I didn't care for it. I think you'd be happier with the .68. Off topic, but that's probably the main reason I like the T-56 in my Coupe. It has both OD ratios.

Another question for the experts. I was waiting to install radiator/condenser until after the engine was in. Since it’s delayed, do you see any issue in installing them prior to the engine? Will it interfere with engine install? Thanks!

I have the .68 5th gear in my TKX and love it. I went that way, based on Kleiner's recommendation. Here's a chart I put together for it. It shows various RPM at speed and in various gears. I removed my Radiator for engine install, and I was glad I did, because it would've interfered with my cherry picker:

Greg

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Originally Posted by gbranham

I have the .68 5th gear in my TKX and love it. I went that way, based on Kleiner's recommendation. Here's a chart I put together for it. It shows various RPM at speed and in various gears. I removed my Radiator for engine install, and I was glad I did, because it would've interfered with my cherry picker:

Greg

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Makes sense. Seems I got lucky with the OD! Thanks for the tip. I guess I can install it, get it plumbed and remove it for the install. I noticed a cinder block in your hoist. I assume for counter weight. I’ll make sure to have some ready.

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Originally Posted by Presdough

I have a TKO with a .63 behind a 408W. The only time I use 5th is on the freeway. It's no fun in the twisties.

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Can you elaborate on this ? I am planning on a 408 for my build, and still haven't figured which ratio's yet.

Greg, I also noticed the car is on dollies. Is this so you can adjust it as well as the hoist? I have some I could use if it would help me. Looking for all the advice I can get. First time doing this…

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Originally Posted by CW_MI

Can you elaborate on this ? I am planning on a 408 for my build, and still haven't figured which ratio's yet.

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If I had it to do over again I would go with the .82. Most of the cars use is on twisty roads having fun. I like RPMs and I rarely get to use 5th. It's great on the freeway, I just don't do mugh freeway. But that's just me...

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Originally Posted by rickster991

Greg, I also noticed the car is on dollies. Is this so you can adjust it as well as the hoist? I have some I could use if it would help me. Looking for all the advice I can get. First time doing this…

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Yep, that's so the legs of my dolly would fit under the car frame.

Greg

So I’ve decided to ceramic coat the headers, extensions, side pipes and heat shields. I like the “chrome” look so I’m going with Jet-Hot. Could not find anyone else to do a “shiny” look.

I’m thinking of going with these in raw metal, since they’ll be coated. Any experience with this company?

https://www.cobrastuff.com/plainshield.html

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Originally Posted by rickster991

Making progress. I installed the left front suspension and brake components. I could not do the right side as I am missing parts. I painted the calipers yellow in homage to other cars I have enjoyed: I have a feeling they are not going to last, and I will be getting them powder coated in the future. I did run into installing the steering arm backwards because I test fit it with tie rod end from the top instead of the bottom. If you plan to mess with the calipers you will need thin wrenches to torque the slide pins on.

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I had to skip the rear suspension and brakes because I am missing parts. I moved on to the parking brake assembly. It went well. For those about to do this, I suggest you do not tighten the main section until it’s all together as I had to tighten/loosen it several times to get it done.

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I then proceeded to spend 4 hours installing the pedal assembly. I tried to put the pedals as far back as possible and still have full throw without hitting the frame. My tip here is do not cut the arm until you are done adjusting it to your liking. I barely had enough to fit it the way I wanted it because I cut it according to the manual. The pedals do go past where the existing sheet metal goes, so I will need to make some adjustments.

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And finally I installed my first rivet and got to use my new tool. It worked great.
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How do you like the Milwaukee rivet gun, any issues ?

I have always wondered what those loops were for, even on passenger vehicles... I thought it was something to assist in fluid movement or helping to bleed air out.

Good point on buying the raw lines and bending and flaring for application!

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Originally Posted by Wicked427

How do you like the Milwaukee rivet gun, any issues ?

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Works great. I was not able to get the catch can to work, so I use it without it. Every once in a while you need to remove a jammed rivet. Mostly because I forget to grab the expended nail. Really easy to do. 99.99% of the rivets it’s fine, there are a couple where it’s too big to fit, so you need a conventional gun. But it was essential for me as my elbow is not what it used to be.

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Originally Posted by rickster991

After re-routing the brake lines I mounted the reservoirs for the brakes and clutch. I chose the location looking at a picture of the car from the build school and a picture from the manual. Hopefully there is room. I wanted a spot that would give accessibility and show off the chrome canisters.

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So here is what I ended up with. Fingers crossed...

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Nice clean and uncluttered engine compartment !!

I will echo the comments/accolades of the M12 rivet gun. I sourced mine new from eBay at a significant discount. I use the catch can about 50% of the time. After the rivet pops, point the gun upward and gravity drops the pin into the can, otherwise it will not. My only word of caution is that it is a gateway drug if you are not familiar with Milwaukee tools. As for the radiator install before the engine, go ahead and moc it up (I did because I was in the same boat of waiting on my engine), but you will be happier with it not there when it comes time to put the engine in. There is already enough collateral damage to worry about.

I’ve been watching videos of engine installs and decided to look at type 65 installs as it matches the Mark V more. There are a lot of videos showing the 347 having issues with the shifter. Both rear positions seem to hit the crossbar. So the solution is to install a mid-shift kit or cut the criss members. I definitely do not want to cut the frame, and seems the mid-shift install is expensive/tricky. Anyone install a BP 347 with a TKX? Any issues? Should I order the mud-shift kit? Thanks any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by rickster991

I’ve been watching videos of engine installs and decided to look at type 65 installs as it matches the Mark V more. There are a lot of videos showing the 347 having issues with the shifter. Both rear positions seem to hit the crossbar. So the solution is to install a mid-shift kit or cut the criss members. I definitely do not want to cut the frame, and seems the mid-shift install is expensive/tricky. Anyone install a BP 347 with a TKX? Any issues? Should I order the mud-shift kit? Thanks any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

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I hope this is not the case. I specifically ask Blueprint when ordering my 347 with a TKX if the MK5 frame had any issues with the combination, since they coordinate with FFR. They indicated that it would drop right in without any tranny changes. I have not installed the combo yet.
So, not sure if FFR changed any of the bracing in the tranny tunnel for the MK5 from the type 65, but I hope so, or I will be upset.
Ralph

This is a picture of the cross-bracing in the Mk5 chassis transmission tunnel. Very different from both the Gen3 Coupe and previous Roadsters. Appears FF has made an effort to provide maximum clearance without having to cut anything. Seems the main decision will be about shifter location depending on what the builder wants, e.g. mid-shift or not, or reorienting the rear location. For my Mk5 build, I'm expecting that rotating the rear position 180 degrees is going to provide what I want. Although my Coyote based engine is slightly shorter than a SBF. So your experience may vary. I already loosened the rear shifter on my TKX so I'm prepared. I was pleased to find Tremec is now using a gasket on the rear shifter location so it's easy to remove the six bolts, flip it around, and run the screws back in. Previous transmissions (TKO and T-56 in my experience) had silicone sealant on that cover that you have to pry off with some effort and then apply new when back together. Off topic but will mention here as well -- usually best to remove the rear shifter for the engine installation. Provides a little more clearance and one less thing to run into.

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Thanks! That’s a relief. The picture from the coupe does have the cross brace in a different spot.

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I'm back at it after being away for a while. I was very curious after reading other threads about the fit of the rollbar. I dry fit it and was able to get the bars to line up after persuading it with a mallet. I have added pictures. I was not able to get it to sit flush with the trunk floor. Is this acceptable, or do I need to get a bigger hammer?

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The straight bar was not binding and I could slide it up to close the gap.

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It took serious hammer work to get it back out again. Is the bolt from the hoop really necessary? Wouldn't geometry and three bolts at the base of the hoop bars and straight bar hold it in place? If not I still need to decide if I want to go with the Boltless roll bar from Speedworks or add the 3rd brake light in the hoop.

Yours looks better than mine! I have taken a couple of whacks at it, and while it is getting better, still not there yet for me.

Next I proceeded to mask the car to begin the application of LizardSkin Sound/Heat coating. As usual it took much longer to mask/sand to get ready to apply than it did to actually get it sprayed on. I bought the spray kit that includes a stirring wand and the spray gun needed. I used my 8 gallon/4CFM compressor and it worked perfectly. I was able to finish the sound coating by applying two coats as per the instructions. I used a two gallon container to finish the car and all the pieces you see.

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I still need to apply the heat barrier and paint the engine compartment body color. I have decided to go with Spectra Blue Mica.

A couple of lessons learned from the experience. Apply this coating before you do wiring or the AC. I had to remove a lot of the wiring looms and hoses to spray. It definitely added time to the job. The second is to install the pieces of sheet metal that go in the front by the brakes before installing the brake lines and front wire harness!!! When I went to spray the pieces I tried to dry fit them to see which side would be best to coat. I discovered that they attach to frame where I ran the brake lines and where I decided to mount the hard/soft line transition pieces. There is no way I am messing with those so I will need to massage the panels to fit. I watched videos of the Mark IV build where people mentioned "F Panels" first. I did not see any mention of that in the manual, or I missed it, so I thought it was a Mark IV thing. The panels I am referring to are 35,36, and 49-52.

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Originally Posted by rickster991

So I’ve decided to ceramic coat the headers, extensions, side pipes and heat shields. I like the “chrome” look so I’m going with Jet-Hot. Could not find anyone else to do a “shiny” look.

I’m thinking of going with these in raw metal, since they’ll be coated. Any experience with this company?

https://www.cobrastuff.com/plainshield.html

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After talking with Drummer Mike, I am now not going to ceramic coat the side pipes and instead go with his heat shields. I really want the polished stainless look. There a lot of good reviews about his product. After talking to him, I learned that he has been doing this for 25 years. He still has his Mark I that he built. He is an actual Jazz drummer.. :) He is pretty old school but I was able to get his email from others on the forum. If you need it,PM me.

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Originally Posted by Tango

Yours looks better than mine! I have taken a couple of whacks at it, and while it is getting better, still not there yet for me.

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I just found your build thread. Following along. My engine is supposed to ship this week! fingers crossed.

Rick, I ground down all the edges of the base tubes and the inner of the rear down bar, and the hoop ends.
And with some help of Rian's jaws of life, and Danmas, we able to get mine to fit acceptably. The hoop and the rear bar were not all the way down to the frame.
I could force the system to work with much pounding to get in place, but worried about re-installing everything on a freshly painted body. It took some force to get it apart before my modifications.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Ralph

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Originally Posted by rickster991

l
It took serious hammer work to get it back out again. Is the bolt from the hoop really necessary? Wouldn't geometry and three bolts at the base of the hoop bars and straight bar hold it in place? If not I still need to decide if I want to go with the Boltless roll bar from Speedworks or add the 3rd brake light in the hoop.

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Another thought I had was to tap the roll bar and brace to have just a bolt on one side instead of a bolt/nut popping through. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by rickster991

install the pieces of sheet metal that go in the front by the brakes before installing the brake lines and front wire harness!!! When I went to spray the pieces I tried to dry fit them to see which side would be best to coat. I discovered that they attach to frame where I ran the brake lines and where I decided to mount the hard/soft line transition pieces. There is no way I am messing with those so I will need to massage the panels to fit. I watched videos of the Mark IV build where people mentioned "F Panels" first. I did not see any mention of that in the manual, or I missed it, so I thought it was a Mark IV thing. The panels I am referring to are 35,36, and 49-52.

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Update: I installed the panels with some cutting and re-routing lines/harness. I don’t see a reason not to install these from the beginning. I could not install a rivet in the corner of the upper panel as there is no room to drill with the suspension in place.

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Regarding the roll bar, I think it's fair to say the rear leg needs to be fully attached. The stock through-bolt is one method. The hidden system, now sold by 520 Speedworks (which I've used from the previous supplier) requires you to turn the rear leg in order to thread it on. So if the bars are so tight you can't turn the rear leg, you're not going to be able to install it. FYI.