JB in NOVA's MK4 build : First overnight road trip!

While this may not answer your question, I'll add my experience. Back in 2011 I got my PS rack from Breeze which were rebuilt racks. My rack required 'O' rings. I installed the rack and later when I went to hook up my lines I noticed that the rebuilders, when painting the rack, had gotten some paint in the tapered section where the 'O' ring needed to seal on more than one spot. I preceded to use some dental tools I had and slowly removed the paint, little piece by little piece followed with some real fine abrasive paper to finish up. I had the ports plugged up with some paper towels to keep debris out. This was done from under the car while the rack was mounted on the chassis.

Long story short, no leaks.....at the PS ports anyway. I did have one small leak at the reservoir, but that was my fault, and it only required some tightening.

George

I have the F5 rack and the Breeze fittings. I did not use the washers. The O rings were all that was necessary for a leak free connection. Be careful, this is easy to over tighten and squeeze the O ring out of place. It does not take much.

Gentlemen, thank you for your advice! Tomorrow I will disconnect the rack-side PS connections and reinstall without the sealing washers. Hopefully that will solve the problem. I had a “feeling” the sealing washers were not the way to go, but as I’ve learned, it’s pretty hard to determine whether a threaded port has an O-ring chamfer. It’s a subtle thing.

In the meantime, I think I’ve got the coolant system buttoned up. I used the Boig “cool tubes” for the upper and lower radiator hose connections. Great product, easy to install, and everything fit together very nicely! For the upper connection, I trimmed about an inch of the 90-degree rubber connection to the pump to get the in-line filler cap approximately even with the frame rails:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1603158285

Here is the lower hose connection:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1603158300

Where the lower connection passes beneath the X-frame member, I used a section of rubber hose, secured with zip ties, to cushion any vibration, as many have suggested:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1603158319

For the overflow tank, I read many threads about how the FFR tank is “marginal” at best in terms of capacity. But I decided to go ahead and install it to see how it works. If I need to replace it with a larger tank later, so be it.

I fabricated a couple brackets and angled the connection holes so that the tank would be more-or-less vertical and upright when installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1603158333

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1603158351

Once everything was installed and tightened up, I filled the system with about 3 ½ gallons of 50/50 distilled water and Prestone concentrate antifreeze. So far, everything looks good!

Progress continues . . .

those tubes look great. I had to get my lower tube custom bent as my water pump comes off the PS instead of the DS. stupid pre 1969 engines...
I would recommend renting a pressure testing kit from your local napa to check for coolant leaks. i found a small leak at my heater return nipple that i would have been chasing down for months if it wasn't for the pressure testing kit.

I’ve been working on getting everything ready for engine start. First, an update on my PS leak. As Terry suggested, I disconnected the Breeze rack fittings and removed the sealing washers. As an aside, I knew it would release fluid when I loosened those connections, so I had a bucket to catch the PS fluid, but it still made quite a mess given the location of the connections above the rack and the 4” frame tube. Lesson learned: I should have used the “turkey baster” method to suck fluid out of the reservoir first.

Anyway, I reinstalled the fittings without the sealing washers. One fit just fine, but the other had a larger O-ring that squeezed against the outside of the port and just didn’t look right. I know the inlet and outlet PS ports are different sizes, so I understand why the Breeze O-rings are different sizes, but this one just seemed too large. I replaced it with a smaller O-ring that came on one of the plastic plugs with the PS rack, and it snugged up perfectly. I refilled the system, moved the steering wheel from lock to lock several times, and . . . no leaks! I will keep an eye on this when the engine starts and the system is fully pressurized.

Next, I connected the drive shaft to the rear axle. My kit did not include the required bolts for some reason, but FFR sent them to me right away. I purchased a 12mm, 12-point socket to drive the bolts. Everything mated together fine, and I torqued to 70 ft-lbs per the FFR manual.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1603323272

I will adjust the pinion angle later.

Next, I filled the engine with break-in oil. I used this product:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1603323296

It has the high zinc and phosphorus content that BPE recommends. My engine took 7 quarts to fill.

Finally, I filled the transmission with Dexron III ATF. It took just shy of 3 quarts. I used this technique:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1603323319 https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1603323333

It was kind of cool watching the blood-red ATF fluid run down the clear plastic tubing into the TKO600. I felt like Dr. Frankenstein bringing a monster to life!

At this point, I’ve got the engine wired, sensors installed, the entire system filled with engine oil, PS fluid, coolant, and transmission fluid, plus 3 gallons of gas in the tank. I’ve got no leaks. I can hear the fuel pump coming to life when I key on, and I’ve programmed the Sniper EFI with the basic presets. I plan to do the BPE pre-start technique tomorrow (turning the engine over several times without a spark to move fluids around). In the meantime, does anyone see anything I still need to do before I start this beast?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1603323348

I think she’s ready!

maybe a little late but filling the trans is a pain from the side plug. going in from the top cover so much easier... CAPTIAN HINDSIGHT TO THE RESCUE!


GOOD LUCK ON THE START! Post Video. For me was one of the best parts other than the first legal drive.

I have 1 thing JB MAKE SURE YOUR VIDEO CAMERA BATTERY IS CHARGED. HA HA. Good Luck.
JR

What ATF did you use for the 600? The spec is specific. I used Pennzoil Synchromesh in mine but don't recall standard ATF fluid as spec.

"For all TKO 5-speed models, TREMEC recommends TREMEC HP-MTF, GM Synchromesh™ or Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. For all other aftermarket models we recommend Dexron III ATF"

Nuhale, thanks for the heads-up. It looks like I read that spec incorrectly. Now I see it refers to all TKO 5-speed models, which would include the TKO600. FWIW, American Powertrain says that, for the TKO600, "[y]ou can use standard Dexron III ATF for break-in, but it must be drained after the break-in period and replaced with Synchromesh or Mobil1 ATF as your permanent fluid." https://americanpowertrain.com/ufaqs...-and-how-much/

Nevertheless, I will drain and replace with one of the recommended fluids now. Thanks again for catching that!

Hey JB, I ended up using the GM Synchromesh part #12345349 per the Tremec installation tips doc that came with my trans. I picked it up from the local GM dealership. Interestingly, in the Maintenance section of the instructions it states "Recommended oil change intervals should be based on specific usage. In most cases a "fill for life" is adequate, while in severe applications such as drag racing or road racing a more frequent oil change should be prescribed." I tend to be overly cautious with these types of things and will likely drain and replace after the 500 mile break-in period.

Look forward to seeing your first start video!

Loved the Frankenstein bit. I felt exactly the same way when doing mine. All the best for your start up.

Cheers,

Nigel

Just a quick update. Today I drained the transmission fluid and replaced it with the correct fluid. This time, I used Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. Here’s the “wrong” fluid leaving the system via the drain plug:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1603506679

Thanks again FFR forum for saving me from myself! Yet another newbie lesson learned.

After getting that fixed, I moved on to Blueprint’s recommended priming procedure. As instructed, I disconnected the spark plugs and the coil output to prevent a spark, and I used my fuel pump cutoff switch to prevent the fuel pump from receiving power. After checking everything one last time, I turned the key and . . . nothing. Not even a sound.

With the “sad trombone” music still playing in my head, I resisted the urge to get frustrated. It was obviously an electrical problem. I broke out my multimeter and quickly identified the culprit as the clutch safety switch. I had wired it as instructed in the RF manual with the wires connected to the rear prongs:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1603506695

But when I did a continuity test with the multimeter, it showed an open circuit in both positions of the switch. In contrast, the forward prongs showed continuity when the pedal was depressed and an open circuit when released, which seemed correct. So I switched the wires to the forward prongs:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1603506712

After checking everything again, I depressed the clutch pedal, turned the key, and it cranked! To ensure proper functionality, I tried to crank with the clutch pedal at rest, and it did not crank. So I’m assuming I got this right. I’m not sure why the RF manual shows it differently.

With that out of the way, I followed the BPE instructions and cranked for 20 seconds, rested a minute, then cranked again for 20 seconds. I did this three times. I observed no leaks in any of my lines, and everything looked and sounded good. Then I rechecked and topped off the fluids.

In terms of oil pressure, the gauges seem to be de-powered during cranking (which I guess is normal?), so I didn’t actually see any oil pressure during cranking. But when I released the key, I observed the oil pressure needle jump up and then slowing sink back down to zero. I’m assuming that indicates I was getting oil pressure during crank.

As always, if anyone sees anything wrong with my setup or my pre-start procedure. Please let me know. Next, I will be installing the side pipes, and I think I’ll be ready.

If your gauges are not powered when cranking, then maybe you have them wired to the accessories terminal instead of the ignition terminal on the key switch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JB in NOVA

In terms of oil pressure, the gauges seem to be de-powered during cranking (which I guess is normal?), so I didn’t actually see any oil pressure during cranking. But when I released the key, I observed the oil pressure needle jump up and then slowing sink back down to zero. I’m assuming that indicates I was getting oil pressure during crank.

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Gauge power feed is on the "ACC FED" section of the Ron Francis panel. The ignition switch turns off the accessories when in the start position. So your gauges are de-powered along with the radio, wiper and heater during cranking. Totally normal and designed to make maximum power available while cranking. You can see the three sections of the panel on the Ron Francis wiring diagram. IGN FED = on any time key is on in run or start, ACC FED = on when key in accessory position or run, BATT FED = always on.

If you are keen to see oil pressure, you could jumper a wire between the accessories and ignition terminals whilst you are doing the prestart testing.

I had the same issue with my clutch safety switch. The manual had it wrong or they changed switches in the kit.

I had the same experience with the clutch safety switch.

With respect to the oil pressure, I think it may be normal on these gauges to get little or no oil pressure during cranking. I had the same experience as you and consulted with BPE. They said a manual oil pressure gauge would give a more immediate confirmation of oil pressure during cranking. So I bought one and tried again. The manual gave me a reading of 55psi whereas the dash gauge barely registered during cranking.

First engine start today! Started on the first try, and no leaks! What a fun day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNQ...ature=youtu.be

Thanks again, FFR forum for all your help so far! I couldn't have done it without you.

Congratulations!

Nice jump from your friend there :p

Congrats! It is a big step.

Very nice JB, congratulations!
JR

CONGRATS, just. dropped the coyote in my build today, ran a few wires.

Congrats! Amazing how good that feels, right?

Wahoo! Great accomplishment, JB! You must feel very satisfied to have such a great success first try...and no leaks! Can't wait until I get there someday.

Nice! Congratulations on a major milestone.

Congrats! Sounds awesome.

Congratulations. Those side pipes always shock the bystanders.
-Steve

Congratulations! A great day!

... and there it is! Fantastic, great to see it start up without a hitch. What a great milestone!

Congrats, JB! Sounds great.

Congrats! Sounds great!

So exciting to see it fire up! Good on you!

Today, I installed the driver’s side lap belt and shoulder harness. I also inserted the seat warmers and re-verified their operation:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1604277375

I’m getting excited for my first go-cart drive. But I have a problem that is basically a show-stopper at this point. I’m hoping someone smarter than me will have a solution to it! Although my engine starts fine and runs OK (albeit a little rough), the EFI system does not register any coolant temperature. It just says “CTF, F – LOW Err.” Here’s a screen shot during idle:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1604277389

My dashboard coolant temperature gauge works fine, and I’ve let the engine warm all the way up, but still I get “LOW Err” on the Sniper handheld. I have two different CTS sensors--one for the dashboard gauge and one for the Sniper, which was installed by Blueprint. Here’s a picture of the Sniper CTS, with purple and green wires that come directly out of the Sniper housing:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1604277417

When I swap the leads between the sensors for the dashboard gauge and the EFI system, I still get proper gauge readout but no Sniper readout. This leads me to believe the sensor is not malfunctioning. There is something wrong between the sensor and the Sniper control.

I have taken the Sniper CTS connector off and tested voltage across the purple and green leads, and I get zero volts with the system powered up. In contrast, my FFR gauge lead shows +5V, which I believe is normal for a CTS sensor. So it doesn’t look like I’m getting any voltage to the Sniper CTS sensor.

Finally, on one of the Sniper display screens, I see an indication of “Coolant Enr, % -- 120.0.” I don’t know what this means, and I’m wondering if this might be a clue to my problem:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1604277438

For completeness sake, here is a screen shot of my basic EFI configuration:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1604277450

I’ve already ordered a replacement CTS sensor, which I will install when it arrives. But I’m not very optimistic this will solve the problem, given that the current sensor works fine when hooked up to the dashboard gauge.

If anyone has thoughts or suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks.

Interesting. I have the same BPE engine/EFI/Trans set up and I didn't have this issue. Obviously, BPE dyno'd it at one point and everything was fine. I'd double check all your connections in the Sniper wiring harness. Make sure no wires are pinched etc. Just curious, when you ran your engine up to temperature, did the cooling fan kick on and off? Those temps are/can be set with the handheld and controlled through the EFI computer. I'm pretty sure the EFI uses the CTS input to turn on and off the fan.

Following your thread.
Thanks!

The coolant enrichment value is used when the coolant is cold to provide more fuel during cold starts. At a value of 120%, your coolant temp should be ~60 degrees F.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1604332941

That said, I've always had a valid readout for coolant temp, even at ambient temperatures. Sounds like a problem with the wiring in the Sniper.

Gentlemen, thank you for your helpful comments! Today, I received a new CTS and tested it. As expected, it did not work. So, unfortunately, it looks like the problem is internal to the Sniper system. The good news is that Blueprint has been great to work with, and they are in the process of getting a new Sniper shipped to me. So I guess I’ll be learning how to install that soon!

A bit of a bummer, but I’m sure I’ll get it worked out eventually. In the meantime, I fitted up my DS roll bar in preparation for (someday) go-karting.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1604532609

I drilled the three bottom holes, but I haven’t yet drilled the hole for the so-called “Frankenstein bolt” at the top. I know some folks have installed a hidden fastening system, like this one: https://520speedworks.com/shop/ols/p...ar-kit-15-inch. But at $80 a pop, I’m not sure it’s worth it, so I’m leaning toward just dressing up the Frankenstein bolt with a SS acorn nut and being done with it. Unless, of course, someone talks me out of it :).

Progress continues . . .

Swapping over to the new Sniper will be pretty simple. Disconnect the fuel lines and unplug the Sniper harnesses, remove the old and replace with the new and reconnect. You'll need to run through the setup wizard and can actually transfer your tune from the old unit to the new one if you save it off first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JB in NOVA

Gentlemen, thank you for your helpful comments! Today, I received a new CTS and tested it. As expected, it did not work. So, unfortunately, it looks like the problem is internal to the Sniper system. The good news is that Blueprint has been great to work with, and they are in the process of getting a new Sniper shipped to me. So I guess I’ll be learning how to install that soon!

A bit of a bummer, but I’m sure I’ll get it worked out eventually. In the meantime, I fitted up my DS roll bar in preparation for (someday) go-karting.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1604532609

I drilled the three bottom holes, but I haven’t yet drilled the hole for the so-called “Frankenstein bolt” at the top. I know some folks have installed a hidden fastening system, like this one: https://520speedworks.com/shop/ols/p...ar-kit-15-inch. But at $80 a pop, I’m not sure it’s worth it, so I’m leaning toward just dressing up the Frankenstein bolt with a SS acorn nut and being done with it. Unless, of course, someone talks me out of it :).

Progress continues . . .

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I drilled mine for the bolt. After some swapping for acorn and ruby nuts, I tapped the holes for the next size up, I think 3/8-16 and put a stainless button head allen bolt in both sides. I have passenger roll bar, so I got to do it twice.
I think Kliener mentioned this as an option.
My local Ace Hdw had these in 3/4" length which was perfect.

Attachment 137221

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Railroad

I drilled mine for the bolt. After some swapping for acorn and ruby nuts, I tapped the holes for the next size up, I think 3/8-16 and put a stainless button head allen bolt in both sides. I have passenger roll bar, so I got to do it twice.
I think Kliener mentioned this as an option.
My local Ace Hdw had these in 3/4" length which was perfect.

Attachment 137221

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I like that! I think that's what I'll do. Thanks for the tip.

While I'm waiting for my Sniper replacement, I managed to get a few things done this week. First, I set the ride height. As many on the forum have advised (and as taught in the build school), I used stacks of three 2X4s under the 4-inch frame tubes in the front to set the front ride height at 4.5 inches. I jacked the car up, adjusted both Koni collars so that they just touched the bottom of the coils, then lowered the car toward the stacked 2X4’s and observed the gap. I jacked up the car again and adjusted the collars an equal number of turns on both sides and repeated this process until the frame tubes just barely touched the stacks of 2X4s. In the rear, I did the same except I added a ½” piece of wood for a rear ride height of 5 inches. Once the ride height was set, I tightened the set screws on the Koni collars.

With that completed, I set the pinion angle on the drive shaft. I used the Tremac app, which allows you to use your iphone to measure the three critical angles: (1) transmission angle, (2) drive shaft angle, and (3) rear axle angle. Here’s what I got:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1604873103

Tremac rewarded me for being “within specification.” So I guess that’s that. I will be sure to revisit this once I have a few miles on the car to make sure I’m still within spec.

Finally, with my dad visiting, I decided to put him to work for a rough front-end alignment. NOTE: My only goal here was to get the front end into the general “ballpark” of a proper alignment. I don’t have the tools or the skills to do an actual alignment.

For toe, we ran a string parallel to the rear tire and measured the gap between the front wheel rim and the string at the front and the rear of the front wheel. We adjusted the tie rod until the rear gap was 1/16” less than the front gap. We did the same on the other side. If I understand correctly, this should represent an overall toe of about 1/8” inward (roughly).

For camber, we used a piece of wood cut to length so that it wedged between the upper and lower ridges of the front rims. We used a level to get this perpendicular. Then we used an angle-finder app on my iphone to measure the camber. I adjusted the upper control arm sleeves to get the camber to about -1 degree on both sides.

For caster, we put the front wheels on folded-over garbage bags to allow them to turn without too much friction. We turned the wheels one direction 20 degrees (we used a straight edge and a protractor to get the angle approximately right) and measured the camber using the same procedure above. Then we turned the wheel until it was 20 degrees in the opposite direction and measured the camber. My understanding is that the difference between these two angles is an approximate estimate of caster. I adjusted the upper control arm sleeves until this value was between +7 and +8 degrees. We repeated the process on both sides.

Finally, we went through and did all the measurements again to make sure everything was still roughly within spec. It was. Good enough to drive, I think.

I also greased all the zerk fittings. I found this thread particularly helpful: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ease-points-16
On my MK4, I found 18 zerk fittings in total: 7 on each side of the front suspension, and 2 on each side of the rear control arms. I did not see any grease fittings on the drive shaft U-joint, so I’m assuming I have the sealed variety.