Rick's Mark V Roadster Build

Today I installed the e-brake cables. It went well with some minor modifications needed. The first was there was a clip included with each of the cables. The clip was not mentioned in the instructions, but there was a slot in the cable that seemed like it would accept the clip to secure the cable to the caliper. It did not fit so I decided to use a Dremel to shorten the legs of the clip and then it fit well.

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I then moved to install the clevises. The instructions say to grind the cable ends so they fit. The cable ends are actually bigger than the picture. I had to spread the clevis a little bit to get the ends to line up with the larger part of the clevis opening. Once I did that I was able to get them in and installed. I used my handy alignment tools to spread the clevis and then pliers to close them again.

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Today I adjusted the e-brake cable. The first thing I noticed was the manual does not really mention what to do beyond routing the cable. There is no detail about how to connect the cables or adjust them. I figured that the Mark V is based on the Type 65 coupe so I checked its manual. There is the same explanation, but it goes into more detail about how to connect the cables to the handle and adjust. Pages 295-297. One thing you will notice is that the connection to the Type 65 is different. It seems the handbrake for the roadster is a combination of the Mark IV and the type 65.

Step 1 was to connect the clevises to the handle. Unfortunately there was not enough slack to reach the handle. In looking at the mechanism on the caliper, it is controlled by a spring. I figured if I could compress the spring I could get enough slack to connect it and then use the handle after that. I used a prybar and bungee cord to compress the springs so I could connect the handle.

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Once it was attached I was able to use the handle to pull the cables and began the adjustments. From then on I used a pair of vise grips to hold the cables so I could loosen the handle and make adjustments to the heim joint.

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Once I started the adjustment I could not get both calipers to engage. The left caliper would lock up solidly but the right caliper would not. When looking at the cables, they attach to the heim joint at different angles because the handle and the frame mounts are not aligned. This causes one cable to have more pull than the other. To prove my theory I connected only the one cable and the caliper locked up. So to fix it I tried to find a way to shorten one of the cables, but could not think of anything. So I decided to try and align the heim joint to the cables. This worked! I was able to engage both sides and tested it with my torque wrench set to 200 ft-lbs.

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I'm not sure if this is what others have done, but this is what I came up with, since the manual really does not mention, with any detail, how to connect or adjust it. Tomorrow I start the wire harness.

Today I started the wiring. I really enjoy wiring as my background is in electrical/computer engineering. The first step was to locate the fuse box. The instructions are for the Mark IV so it is up to you to find a spot. The build school suggested the location I chose, but I mounted it perpendicular to the way they mounted it. Since there is only 2 points of contact vs 3 on the mark IV I figured that lengthwise would be stronger.

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Here is where I installed the inertia switch and front harness exit point.

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I then followed the instructions in connecting the rest of the harnesses together. One of the things that was mentioned at the build school was that if there was confusion with which connector to use, make sure the colors of the wires match. I didn't really find any issue identifying which connectors go together, BUT I did notice that both connectors for the rear harness had colors crossed. After looking at the wiring diagram, it did not appear that this should be the case. I spoke with FFR and they agreed that this was wrong and that I should swap the pins on both connectors. I had bought a tool for this thinking I would mess up and some point making connectors, so I had it available. It was remarkably easy. I then checked all the connectors and the wire colors matched. So crisis averted.

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Once I completed routing and securing all the harnesses I moved to adding connectors to the lights. This went smoothly.

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I have some questions for the experts...

1. I may be missing something, but I don't see a connector for the turn signal switch. The manual says "Plug the Turn signal switch into the chassis harness plug near the fuse panel."

2. The tail light harness has 4 wires, but the tail lights have three wires. I spoke with FFR and they referred me to the Mark IV manual that mentions a "tail light converter" that needs to be grafted on to the harness, and that it is in Box 4. I did not have that converter in box 4 or in my inventory. The Mark V manual has the same entry but states "The tail light converter is not used with the column turn signal switch." What do I do?

Thanks for the help.

For #1 is this it?

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Originally Posted by rickster991

For #1 is this it?

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I heard back from my build school instructor. This is correct. Still waiting on 4 wire question.

I found this picture from build school. I’m going with not using the purple wire.

Attachment 215668

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rickster991

I have some questions for the experts...

1. I may be missing something, but I don't see a connector for the turn signal switch. The manual says "Plug the Turn signal switch into the chassis harness plug near the fuse panel."

2. The tail light harness has 4 wires, but the tail lights have three wires. I spoke with FFR and they referred me to the Mark IV manual that mentions a "tail light converter" that needs to be grafted on to the harness, and that it is in Box 4. I did not have that converter in box 4 or in my inventory. The Mark V manual has the same entry but states "The tail light converter is not used with the column turn signal switch." What do I do?

Thanks for the help.

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Just getting into my Mk5 kit and learning about this too since it's new with the Mk5. The hot rod and truck used the hot rod connector from the Ron Francis harness. Now that Factory Five has incorporated a turn signal into the Mk5 with a similar GM style turn signal switch, they're now also using the hot rod connector.

1. Correct. The hot rod connector.

2. I couldn't find it in the Mk5 manual, but if the same as the truck that I built, the brake wires (purple) are NOT connected to the three wire rear lights. The turn signal switch will handle the switching. Don't overlook a couple places in the manual where it says to cut the pink hazard wire and the yellow and white rear turn signal light wires off the turn signal connectors that are for the dash turn signal switch. These can backfeed and mess up the rear lights. The truck was the same. It worked BTW.

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I couldn't find it in the Mk5 manual, but if the same as the truck that I built, the brake wires (purple) are NOT connected to the three wire rear lights. The turn signal switch will handle the switching.

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Thanks for confirming.

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Don't overlook a couple places in the manual where it says to cut the pink hazard wire and the yellow and white rear turn signal light wires off the turn signal connectors that are for the dash turn signal switch. These can backfeed and mess up the rear lights. The truck was the same. It worked BTW.

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I was wondering if I needed to do that. Thanks for the tip!

Today I finished all the connectors and added extra ground connections from the harness connectors. This was a recommendation from the instructors as having only the one ground from the harness was not enough in their experience.

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My EFI kit came with a third short line. I assume it’s for the regulator to EFI. But that cheaper looking line that goes from the pump to the filter was bothering me. So I decided to use it for that connection and deal with the missing hose for the EFI later. It has one quick connect so I bought another to complete it. I hope this was the right one.

Amazon fitting


Here is where I had the canister and filter to accommodate the shorter line.

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And here is where I mounted them with the new line.

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I feel much better now… :)

Today I customized my 18.5" Kirkey race seats to fit. I also modified the seat tracks to fit the Kirkey mounting brackets. I had to cut a lot of the seat to make it happen, but happy to report it is still solid and I can completely stretch out my legs! With the seat in place, I was able to finalize the steering wheel position, and readjust the turn signal cam position. I was also able to finalize the dash layout. To get the turn signal arm into place, I had to cut a slot next to steering column hole to expose the screw that connects it

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I actually can get two more inches of room by cutting more. I am going to wait to install the seats once I install the windshield so I can figure out the seat height and then see if I need it.

I then proceeded to drill and install the trunk panels. There is a problem in the steps the manual wants you to follow. I was not able to drill holes / rivet the top part of the trunk panel. With the cockpit back wall installed there is no way to get a drill in there. So drill that before installing the back panel. I coated it with liberal amounts of adhesive. Hopefully all the other rivets will be sufficient.

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So I just need to bleed the brakes and install the trunk side panels and I will have completed all the pre-engine install. Well except for the AC. Oh my goodness this seems complicated. Does anyone have experience with it? Tips & tricks? I found the install instructions under the Type 65 section. There are over 100 pages!

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Originally Posted by rickster991

So I restarted the install of the differential and was able to complete. I took some engineering with straps to get it into place. Since the first try was a fail I decided to add a little bit of silicone grease to the bearings to help with adjusting and it helped a lot. I started by using straps to lift it and get it into position.

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With a lot of adjusting I was able to insert the first forward bolt. I then proceeded to try and place the second forward bolt with no luck. So I tried to get the same side rear bolt in. I used a 5/16 alignment punch on the opposite rear bolt hole and it helped align the bolt. I was able to thread it a few turns. The second rear bolt went in easily as it was aligned with the punch. The last bolt fought me for a long time. I used the punch to see where it was catching and adjusted accordingly.

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Eventually I got it close and had to use a hammer to get it to go. The first time the sleeve went with it. I tried again but the second time I used a socket to hold the sleeve in place and was able to get it in!

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When I torqued the bolts the sleeves did not go all the way back in. I will re-torque over the next few weeks???

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Had same issue so use spacers to close the gap

Thanks, this inspired me to add a post to help hold the fuse panel...

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Originally Posted by RKRacing

Thanks, this inspired me to add a post to help hold the fuse panel...

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I like that idea. I'm going to do the same. Thanks!

Today I got to the pre-engine roller stage. I finished the rear panels and bled the brakes. I tried to use a power bleeder with no luck. It was a complete fail. So I went the old school method. I bled the front brakes and then the rear. That seemed to work well. After talking to FFR they recommended bleeding the power booster first and then move on to the calipers. The tech said not many people ask about the FFR brake booster. Glad I'm the guinea pig?! I struggled until I bled the master cylinder independently. I used one of my "mistakes" to run a line directly to reservoir. Good news is I was able to work on the MCs with the fuse box position I chose.

Here are some pictures of the roller.

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I could not resist installing a spinner...

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Thanks for posting these... really helps pull your story together.
Also for other MK5 builders with the carbon dash... use the 3-4 holes for your steering shaft on the dash template (as of this post was not in manual)

Quick warning. I cut a hole in the dash to install the turn signal stalk. It was loose so I tightened it. When I went to take it off, the screw is just spinning. So I can’t take it off. I will have to remove the shaft to get the dash out for drilling the final holes in the dash. So be careful.

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Originally Posted by RKRacing

Thanks, this inspired me to add a post to help hold the fuse panel...

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RKR, did you have to get creative with your brake line routing, or clutch? Looks tight.
Ralph

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Originally Posted by rickster991

Quick warning. I cut a hole in the dash to install the turn signal stalk. It was loose so I tightened it. When I went to take it off, the screw is just spinning. So I can’t take it off. I will have to remove the shaft to get the dash out for drilling the final holes in the dash. So be careful.

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That little screw into plastic to hold the stalk on looks like a design problem. The constant force on the stalk over time may cause trouble, and then impossible to get to. How do you plan to resolve the issue? Put a longer bolt all the way through with a nut on the other end?
Thanks, Ralph

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Originally Posted by rponfick

That little screw into plastic to hold the stalk on looks like a design problem. The constant force on the stalk over time may cause trouble, and then impossible to get to. How do you plan to resolve the issue? Put a longer bolt all the way through with a nut on the other end?
Thanks, Ralph

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I don’t know yet. I have not tried to get it out yet. Taking a break with family over. Back at it on Monday. Happy Fourth everyone.

Quick question. Since the family was over they helped me put on the body. The holes for the windshield are not even on each side. Is this normal? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by rickster991

Quick question. Since the family was over they helped me put on the body. The holes for the windshield are not even on each side. Is this normal? Thanks.

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Yes. The molds are not mirror images.

Jeff

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by rponfick

RKR, did you have to get creative with your brake line routing, or clutch? Looks tight.
Ralph

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Have not run break lines yet as waiting on a ABS unit.... will likely use different fittings... but there should be enough space. Happy to post pix when complete but heading out on a long vaca soon.

For those following this thread and have the FF A/C unit to install... flow the Coupe instructions https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...en-3-REV-G.pdf

I was back at it. Yesterday and today I was working on getting the seats installed. I started by installing the brackets for the windshield and used a string to simulate the windshield height. With that I was able to determine the height I wanted the seats. I ended up using 1 1/2" steel square tube to mount it and along with the sliders it was a perfect height. I was dead set on installing the 18" Kirkey seats. If I had to do it over again I would stick to the ones that FFR tells you fit! I'm not sure the extra inch of comfort was worth the effort!

I started by removing the parts of the seat that hit the frame and don't allow it to go all the way back. I had to take off way more that I thought I would. The seats are still rigid and feel comfortable with the covers on.

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After removing the material I attached the mounts that are made for the 55 series Kirkey seats. I then attached the sliders to make sure they were perfectly parallel. I have installed race seats before and that is always the most difficult part. Once these were attached it was a matter of finding structure to make sure the mounts are secure. It was remarkably difficult, but I managed to find solid mounting points. I ended up using carriage bolts to hold the sliders to the steel tube and bolts to secure the tube to the frame and structure. Happy to report I fit really well and my wife and I can both reach the pedals.

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The passenger seat was much simpler. I chose to mount the seat directly to the steel tubes rather than use the Kirkey mounts. This made it much more straight forward to find structure to secure the seat. I simply drilled holes in the seat to pass the bolts through the seat to attach to the floor. I used socket head screws so I could secure them easily with an allen wrench and bolt on the other side.

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And since I had the seat in and body I finalized and installed the gauges. I'm really happy with the layout.

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At the end of this week I'll be away from the car for a month until the motor arrives. I hope to finish the wiring for the gauges and install the AC. I ended buying a crimping tool so we shall see how that goes. It was great to get back at it.

UPDATE on the stripped screw in the turn signal. There is no getting it out. It looks like there is a piece that the screw grabs on to. That piece is spinning and there is no way to hold it to get the screw out. I really did not want to take it out and start the whole process of aligning it again. But it looks like I will have to. I am going to call FFR tomorrow and see if they can help or send me another one.

Quick question for the experts. I placed cardboard under the car to see if I had any brake fluid leaks. The only place I can see is two of the three reservoirs. I used the supplied hose and clamps. I would not think the lines are under pressure??? Should I use teflon tape on the fittings? This was the last place I thought it would leak from.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by rickster991

Quick question for the experts. I placed cardboard under the car to see if I had any brake fluid leaks. The only place I can see is two of the three reservoirs. I used the supplied hose and clamps. I would not think the lines are under pressure??? Should I use teflon tape on the fittings? This was the last place I thought it would leak from.

Thanks!

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Only gravity pressure from the reservoirs. But there's fluid in them all the time and will leak. Teflon tape is not recommended. Especially for anything related to the brakes. Many of us don't use it anywhere on the build. Save it for your house plumbing.

Update on the turn signal. After speaking with FFR and making sure I could get a replacement, I decided to try and pin the insert that’s spinning in the enclosure. I used a small drill bit and perforated the plastic housing and the insert. The insert is metal. I’m not sure how it’s secured to begin with. I left the drill bit in and was able to remove the screw! I guess I could place a small screw in there to hold it and shorten the screw that holds the stalk.. I really do not want to reinstall and readjust the mechanism. Any way, be careful when installing this screw!

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Update. I pinned it with a tiny screw I had laying around and shortened the mounting screw. I am now able to snug it down and remove without issue.

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Rick,
I think you may not be understanding how the turn signal mechanism is designed. The plastic piece with the hole for the lever screw is keyed to the metal cylinder. This cylinder is captured in the switch's housing and is supposed to rotate when the lever and the piece it attaches to is moved for a left or right signal. The screw that attaches the lever is supposed to go through the plastic and thread into the metal cylinder. By pinning that cylinder it is now immovable and the the plastic that is intended to be keyed in position on it will now be pivoting on that lever retaining retaining screw rather than the cylinder. If the plastic piece is turning while the cylinder is immovable it indicates that the tabs that key it to the cylinder have been broken. I'm afraid that this won't last long term... Can you remove the pin and lock the plastic to the cylinder as intended?

Jeff

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

Rick,
I think you may not be understanding how the turn signal mechanism is designed. The plastic piece with the hole for the lever screw is keyed to the metal cylinder. This cylinder is captured in the switch's housing and is supposed to rotate when the lever and the piece it attaches to is moved for a left or right signal. The screw that attaches the lever is supposed to go through the plastic and thread into the metal cylinder. By pinning that cylinder it is now immovable and the the plastic that is intended to be keyed in position on it will now be pivoting on that lever retaining retaining screw rather than the cylinder. If the plastic piece is turning while the cylinder is immovable it indicates that the tabs that key it to the cylinder have been broken. I'm afraid that this won't last long term... Can you remove the pin and lock the plastic to the cylinder as intended?

Jeff

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Good description Jeff, I messed with mine CAREFULLY and was able to get it to work adequately. You can actually see how the tabs or small ears contact the springs and cancel the signal when depressed to indicate right or left. But after seeing how it functioned and then looking at its probable lifespan I’ve decided to go with a push button self canceling turn signal option. I’m convinced the supplied option won’t make it a full two years before needing adjustment or replacement. For some it might be great, but for me it’s going in the replacement folder.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

Rick,
I think you may not be understanding how the turn signal mechanism is designed. The plastic piece with the hole for the lever screw is keyed to the metal cylinder. This cylinder is captured in the switch's housing and is supposed to rotate when the lever and the piece it attaches to is moved for a left or right signal. The screw that attaches the lever is supposed to go through the plastic and thread into the metal cylinder. By pinning that cylinder it is now immovable and the the plastic that is intended to be keyed in position on it will now be pivoting on that lever retaining retaining screw rather than the cylinder. If the plastic piece is turning while the cylinder is immovable it indicates that the tabs that key it to the cylinder have been broken. I'm afraid that this won't last long term... Can you remove the pin and lock the plastic to the cylinder as intended?

Jeff

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Thanks for the input! I could. I just tried it again and it seems to be working and the screw is not coming loose. I could leave the pin in only to tighten and loosen the screw and then remove it once the screw is tight.

If it’s supposed to rotate how would the screw ever tighten, unless it only rotates a few degrees?

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Originally Posted by rickster991

...If it’s supposed to rotate how would the screw ever tighten, unless it only rotates a few degrees?

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As I said, the cylinder and plastic part that moves from left, off, right are keyed together by a tab to the outside of the cylinder that keeps it from rotating more than just a few degrees. You can't see that with the lever installed---and probably don't want to take it off although I think you'll have to to install the dash.

Jeff

Rick,

I f you decide you want some new parts I can probably part with mine. I’ve already piece together my new setup.

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Originally Posted by Reddrig

Rick,

I f you decide you want some new parts I can probably part with mine. I’ve already piece together my new setup.

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Thanks for the offer. I don't want to mess with it. It it fails in the future, I'll figure out a different solution.

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Originally Posted by rickster991

Thanks for the offer. I don't want to mess with it. It it fails in the future, I'll figure out a different solution.

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Just FYI these switches are AC Delco #D6211. There were literally millions of them produced for use in GM A, B and F bodies and trucks as well as for other domestic and European manufacturers. Obviously they are still being reproduced. Ididt, Speedway Motors, American Autowire and others use them for their columns and or harnesses.

Jeff

Today I worked on wiring the dash. I finished all the connections according to the manual. Fingers crossed it all works.

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A few questions.

1. I couldn't find a corresponding ground wire for the light switch. I assume I can just tie it to the chassis or any any other available ground wire.
2. The dimmer for the gauges requires constant power. I hooked it to the battery terminal of the starter switch, Is that acceptable?
3. Do you use the wires provided with the Oil/water sensors or do you use the wires in the harness? I thought it would be easier to simply using the connectors/wires provided.

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I then proceed to mock up the AC evaporator. The only way I could get the lines to not run into the frame was to mount it at a slight angle. I used some angle brackets along with the provided brackets to get 4 points of contact. I was reading some posts and some people forego using the bulkhead connectors. It seems that It would be a pretty tight fit with them in there. I mocked it with just the grommets. I would just need to figure out a place to put the connectors with the valves. Can they both be connected at the compressor?

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

Just FYI these switches are AC Delco #D6211. There were literally millions of them produced for use in GM A, B and F bodies and trucks as well as for other domestic and European manufacturers. Obviously they are still being reproduced. Ididt, Speedway Motors, American Autowire and others use them for their columns and or harnesses.

Jeff

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I actually found that out (quick internet search) when I was trying to shim mine for the 15th time to get it aligned correctly, I did get mine working correctly. For me it’s a personal choice of not likening the way it was working with my build on my car. Many others may love it, it does work if you spend the time to get it aligned just perfect. I’m also not a fan of the actual stock and how that single screw is literally holding that piece in with some small plastic guide rails. Lastly it seems a little out of place, not necessarily cheap but not substantial.

I spoke with FFR and they are sending me a new mechanism. I’ll install the new so I don’t have any issues.