Cliff's 33 Hot Rod Build in Virginia

I have spent a lot of hours on the doors and I feel there are still a bunch more to be spent. Adding washers so the beam twists is a big help. Still is a lot of trial and error with way too many adjustments available. I have final fitting to go but just had had enough bodywork and went on to the chassis. The hood, sides, and radiator fit are another learning experience. Lots of options for learning how to sand, cut, and use fiberglass and resin. Not all bad, but takes a while when you are learning it all new.

Cliff,
where are you? My family is moving back to VA shortly.

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Originally Posted by sethmark

Cliff,
where are you? My family is moving back to VA shortly.

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Sandy Hook 22 miles west of Richmond

Not too far away... we’re moving near Roanoke....we lived in chesterfield for a while.

It's been over a month since my last entry. Since then I have over 20 hours working on just the drivers door. When you think you are done sanding, think again. It's a never ending process.
I also took a break and worked on my punch list items. That list doesn't seem to get smaller.

I feel your pain brother. I have just now gotten both doors and trunk lid open and close. It was a lot of work. If I were to do it again, I bet you I could do it in two hours. But the first time is abysmal.

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Originally Posted by sethmark

I feel your pain brother. I have just now gotten both doors and trunk lid open and close. It was a lot of work. If I were to do it again, I bet you I could do it in two hours. But the first time is abysmal.

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Great progress. Question: Did you just sand to get the doors and trunk lid to fit or did you rough cut most of it off first?

The first one I snuck on with a DA sander. After that I went with a angle grinder to get it close. Then DA.

Same - angle grinder with 40 grit flap disk, be careful that sucker will destroy anything it touches....

Thank you both. I was leaning to go with the angle grinder for the other door and trunk. I was just using a sander and it takes so long.

No.... not a 4.5” grinder, a 1/4” die grinder with a 3” pad.

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Originally Posted by colsen23153

Thank you both. I was leaning to go with the angle grinder for the other door and trunk. I was just using a sander and it takes so long.

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If your adjusting your door or trunk for gaps on the edges then I would highly suggest a belt sander with a 60 grit belt, this way its straight and uniform. It will go fast so be very careful. Grinders can give you a wavy edge if your not careful or "destroy" the edge as FF33Rod mentioned. And if your adjusting your edges for gaps, remember that 1/4" and 1/8" tape will be your best friends to make sure you aren't guessing how much material to remove.
Attachment 116642
I placed blue tape on the body side so I knew where the body edge/corner really was, then I went ahead and laid down 1/4" wide tape from the blue tape edge onto the door, this sets the real gap. Then I laid another run of 1/4" tape beside that one on the door side and removed the one that set the gap, the second one is where I would need to remove material to. This keeps the lines straight and true to the body. Have fun!!
Attachment 116643 This is the trunk after belt sanding, the gap looks big but it isn't, between the 2 coats of primer, base coat and three coats of clear, it closes in nice and tight fast.

I have a couple of these t-bar style sanders from a previous hobby, thought they would be great to make sure edges were straight....

http://www.greatplanes.com/accys/gpmr6170.php

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Originally Posted by AJT '33

If your adjusting your door or trunk for gaps on the edges then I would highly suggest a belt sander with a 60 grit belt, this way its straight and uniform. It will go fast so be very careful. Grinders can give you a wavy edge if your not careful or "destroy" the edge as FF33Rod mentioned. And if your adjusting your edges for gaps, remember that 1/4" and 1/8" tape will be your best friends to make sure you aren't guessing how much material to remove.
Attachment 116642
I placed blue tape on the body side so I knew where the body edge/corner really was, then I went ahead and laid down 1/4" wide tape from the blue tape edge onto the door, this sets the real gap. Then I laid another run of 1/4" tape beside that one on the door side and removed the one that set the gap, the second one is where I would need to remove material to. This keeps the lines straight and true to the body. Have fun!!
Attachment 116643 This is the trunk after belt sanding, the gap looks big but it isn't, between the 2 coats of primer, base coat and three coats of clear, it closes in nice and tight fast.

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what did you use to fill when the gap was over?

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Originally Posted by sethmark

what did you use to fill when the gap was over?

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If there was too big a gap, anything over an eighth of an inch I simply added some fiberglass to the face of the edge, made it flush front and back and then started over with the taping until I got the 1/4" gap I wanted. For under an eighth, I used my rage to build it out, it also depended where it was, on the front edge on the drivers side I used fiberglass knowing that I wanted a stronger corner.

Well I finished the doors and moved on to the trunk. I put the weatherstrip on then cut off about 1/8-1/4" from the bottom. Sanded all the sides and it fits but the center of the trunk on the sides is about 1/4" proud of the body side. Attachment 117231 I can push it down to rest on the weatherstrip so I don't think that is what is holding it up. It sits flush on the top and bottom but bowed in the center.

Did any of you had this problem and if so what corrected it?
Thanks,
Cliff

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Originally Posted by colsen23153

Well I finished the doors and moved on to the trunk. I put the weatherstrip on then cut off about 1/8-1/4" from the bottom. Sanded all the sides and it fits but the center of the trunk on the sides is about 1/4" proud of the body side. Attachment 117231 I can push it down to rest on the weatherstrip so I don't think that is what is holding it up. It sits flush on the top and bottom but bowed in the center.

Did any of you had this problem and if so what corrected it?
Thanks,
Cliff

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Some have used Tim Whittaker's Side Stiffeners to help with this issue. Others have drilled holes through the inner wall of the trunk and then glassed the top to the bottom to add strength and rigidity. I am sure there are other fixes to this challenge that many other builders have used as well, but it does tend to be known issue.

Yeah, I'm in the midst of dealing with a potato chip shaped trunk lid. My approach is a steel tube frame that will be bonded into a slot I cut in the trunk lid. I'll use a combination of screws and washers/spacers to coerce the lid into the right shape before bonding the parts together with HSRF. Attachment 117234Attachment 117235The frame also gives me a place to attach the Mazda 3 hinges that I'm using instead of the FFR hoop hinges.

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Originally Posted by colsen23153

Well I finished the doors and moved on to the trunk. I put the weatherstrip on then cut off about 1/8-1/4" from the bottom. Sanded all the sides and it fits but the center of the trunk on the sides is about 1/4" proud of the body side. Attachment 117231 I can push it down to rest on the weatherstrip so I don't think that is what is holding it up. It sits flush on the top and bottom but bowed in the center.

Did any of you had this problem and if so what corrected it?
Thanks,
Cliff

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Had a similar issue, had about 3/8", send a note to Tony Z and they sent me a new trunk lid that fit perfect.
Attachment 117242 Prior to receiving a new trunk lid.

It sucks having to make that very custom part for a flaw in molds at FFR. I'm almost to the trunk lid myself and fear it'll bow just like others.

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Originally Posted by tony

It sucks having to make that very custom part for a flaw in molds at FFR. I'm almost to the trunk lid myself and fear it'll bow just like others.

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Mine fits well. Fiberglass is fickle....

Just did the first fit (no gaps) of the trunk last weekend. It appears to be the right shape all around (unlike the doors). However, I have the Tim Whittaker reinforcement parts that I will be adding anyway to give overall better robustness.

Steve

Mine is a Gen 1 Hot Rod, so maybe this is an issue that FFR addressed in the Gen 2 bodies?
Keith

Sent email to Tony Z. to see if I can get a replacement. Fingers crossed.

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Originally Posted by colsen23153

Sent email to Tony Z. to see if I can get a replacement. Fingers crossed.

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Don't expect immediate response. Tony is OOO, at SEMA I imagine. Chris and I are still waiting for him to get back to us regarding the striker location problem we have with the Gen2 chassis mated with everything else Gen1.

Do you believe in the tooth fairy? I some time think there is a FFR fairy. After sanding the uneven top edge of the trunk lid then drilling and installing the rivnuts, I put the lid back on and almost all of the bow is gone. I can't explain it because I had it off and on many times before. I did notice that as I drilled for the rivnuts I hit a layer of aluminum. Not thick but got metal drill shavings. Maybe because the lid was upside down when drilling it might have stretched out.

Now on to mounting it and finishing putting the aluminum in the trunk.

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Originally Posted by progmgr1

Yeah, I'm in the midst of dealing with a potato chip shaped trunk lid. My approach is a steel tube frame that will be bonded into a slot I cut in the trunk lid. I'll use a combination of screws and washers/spacers to coerce the lid into the right shape before bonding the parts together with HSRF. Attachment 117234Attachment 117235The frame also gives me a place to attach the Mazda 3 hinges that I'm using instead of the FFR hoop hinges.

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That looks like a lot of work. But it looks nice.

My trunk lid changes hot to cold. Will build some kind of fram.

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Originally Posted by colsen23153

That looks like a lot of work. But it looks nice.

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It IS a lot of work, but everything I do requires learning a new skill which (for me) is a big part of the fun of building a car. It means that my build is taking years longer than others. However, the result is that I'll end up with something unique that is exactly what I want and I'll know every corner and fastener. YMMV Keith

I recommend adding something for support. lots of ideas from all replies.

The feel is much better when opening and a little reassurance that more movement wont be happening down the road. I am even thinking to do some support side to side. Idea from Progmgr1 would give this support

My steps are now on my build page

Attachment 117627

The front to back bulge was the worst, but I also had some side-to-side warping. A little (1/4") high in the middle both top and bottom, but the PS back corner was 1/2" or more low. I understand that there is a lot of difference from lid to lid, especially on the older cars. So yes, I would suggest a frame all around. Either wood or metal should work fine. It just has to be stiff and able to be bonded to the lid. Keith

A follow up from my email to Tony Z. about my trunk lid: Tony replyed a few days after he returned from SEMA and said he was going to send the lid. I emailed him back in a hurry to tell him it was not needed. Great response from Tony.

I finished putting DEI header wrap on the headers. Not so bad a job.

I moved on to installing my windshield. On page 472 of the manual there is a template that shows the exact location of the holes. I looked for that template and could not find it anywhere. I contacted tech. and they said it's part # 33489 in box 16. I searched again but could not find it. Box 16 is the aluminum parts and templates. If it was in that box it would have to be a box over 4' long. I asked them to take a picture of it and send it to me.

I asked on Facebook if anyone else had the template and I didn't receive a yes from anyone. I got responses like it's printed on/in the windshield box or maybe the foam. Nada.

I did put the hard top on to make sure that the holes for the windshield will be covered by the hard top. Here is what that looks like:
Attachment 117788 Attachment 117789

It does cover the initial windshield hole markings but WOW! I immediately fell in love with the hard top again. My plan is to first build it as a roadster. Then a year later put the hard top on. I don't think I could last a year without the hard top. Seeing the car at that stage has given me the new enthusiasm I needed to Get'er done!

The template for the roadster windshield is the gasket.

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Originally Posted by sethmark

The template for the roadster windshield is the gasket.

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Dan @ Tech. also said it's the gasket. I'm disappointed as what is shown in the manual would take all the guessing out of it. The holes in the gasket are larger then the 1/4" bolt. I will "measure twice and drill once."

It’s a pain. I had to widen the holes a bit each time. And I measured many times. Be aware that the bolts suck the cowl up to the windshield frame.

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Originally Posted by colsen23153

... WOW! I immediately fell in love with the hard top again. My plan is to first build it as a roadster. Then a year later put the hard top on. I don't think I could last a year without the hard top. Seeing the car at that stage has given me the new enthusiasm I needed to Get'er done!

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Yup, I felt the same when I did that last week...

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Originally Posted by sethmark

It’s a pain. I had to widen the holes a bit each time. And I measured many times. Be aware that the bolts suck the cowl up to the windshield frame.

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As sethmark states the cowl does get pulled up to windshield as you tighten the nuts. I notched a piece of angle aluminum and shaped it to fit on the underside then epoxied it with the windshield installed, then I epoxied a piece of flat stock over the notches to hold the shape. When i remove the windshield the cowl holds its shape.
Attachment 117801
Attachment 117802
Attachment 117803
Attachment 117804

While attempting to install my windshield today I ran into a problem that is caused when having a defroster installed. They say at the end of installing the windshield that if you have a defroster to cut the vent holes now. Well you can't use a air saw to make the cut with the windshield installed. So I went about installing the defroster first. I measured, cut, and installed the complete defroster and defroster duct work. This is where I ran into a problem. With the defroster duct installed the center bolt for the windshield strikes the defroster duct. I could not find anything in the manual or the defroster instructions telling me to avoid the problem. So I had to uninstall the defroster duct work to get the windshield to sit flush with the dash again.

The problem is simple to correct. Two solutions. Cut the center bolt before installing it into the base of the windshield (don't cut the hex end) just long enough that it can take the 10mm nut and washer but not longer or get a 6mm button head screw about 1" long and insert it from underneath before installing the defroster duct. I am going to try the second choice. I will let you know after I finished what the length turned out to be.

UPDATE: I used a 6mm pan head bolt 3/4" long. I had to tighten the bolts on either side to "flex" the body so the bolt would catch some threads. Worked fine. Defroster is installed and functional.

Here are some pictures of my progress:

Attachment 117955 Attachment 117956 Attachment 117957

This picture is the top of the defroster duct where the center windshield bolt was hitting. Attachment 118143

I made a template out of the flap of the windshield box. I pushed it up against the bolts to get my location. It wasn't exact. I had to widen a few to allow the windshield to fit.

On to the headlights. If you think something is going to take you a few minutes add 2 to 4 hours to the estimate. Two things were wrong and one bad part. If using the Ron Francis wiring harness the gauge of the 5 wires that go thru the head light mounting bolt will not fit. The head lights are LED and don't require that heavy a wire. You could use lesser gauge wires or drill out the mounting bolt for the wires to fit. I chose to drill the bolt. Use these drill bits in succession with oil. 19/64, 5/16 and 21/64. They will just fit if the wires are not twisted. The second thing that was wrong is the color code on the lamp as what is in the manual. I just used a battery and alligator clips to determine the colors to use.
Attachment 118149
I chose to wire it up for the DRL. I think it looks cool. To do this you need to supply +12 to the red wire on the lamp. I used the RF parking light wire. Back in the cab I cut the brown wire coming from the front harness and wired it to the electric choke wire. This turned on the white led bar and allowed the it to change to the directional amber.
Attachment 118152
The bad part was the head light switch. It didn't switch on the head lights. I just happen to have a second one in my spare parts box and that fixed the problem.

To finish up the day I worked on lowering the front to the required height of 4.5". I was able to get it to just under 6" and called it a day. I'll look at it again after the holiday.

Happy Thanksgiving y'all!

I extended the headlight harness out of the bolt into a weatherpak connection. Same pain in the butt. Nice job.