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Idesign, nice job. It looks good but is simple and easy to fabricate. It also allows space for lots of additional functions if someone wants them.
I am hoping the FFR might release a little more information on the interior so people can play with possible design options. One thing I would like to know is the seat locations relative to the vehicle center line. Now we have to guess but that dimension is important in terms of what is possible with the console.
prosport gauges would look super nice there... they are a good price and look spectacular
in fact leaving those 3 spots open for any 52mm gauge means costs can stay down and we builders can go as crazy as we want with aftermarket gauges
overall simple and functional, easy to make, looks awesome and we can customize it with whatever guages we live (maybe)... and a hot shift knob to boot... love it
Posts 35 & 36 back on 7/01/11 (page 1 of this thread) might be the best information we have, 24" + 24" for the side by seating width as a rough guess. Also guessing based on David's comments that the center diagonal is being reconsidered.Quote:
Originally Posted by olpro
That Pontiac Solstice dash posted a while back is interesting in that the angle is aggressively downward, I presume to lessen dash reflection or glare.
Another image of it.
http://www.madmechanics.com/general-...ntiac-g6-dash/
Attachment 5248
Thanks for that. If the available space is 24" we can begin to see how much room there might be between the seats. I think the typical aftermarket seat is 21 or 22 inches wide (the image is a Corbeau seat) which allows between 2" to 4" for a console, depending on where the seat is mounted within that 24" range. Of course I don't know what the elbow situation is on the outsides so the seats might have to be squeezed inward, eliminating ANY console.
Attachment 5249
I am a big fan of the solstices driver oriented dash. Looks much nicer than the wrx dash. According to the poster on that forum the dashes are on eBay cheap as well. If we were able to adapt that dash into the 818 it would go a long way towards making the car look factory built instead of a typical kit car interior.
Totally agree ^^. Idesign - very nice! I'd adopt that in a heart beat. very much my style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grantourer
I did a little research on the GTM exterior once, there is an incredible amount of personal customization going on (most of it very nice, but not always to my personal taste).Quote:
Originally Posted by adesilva
I can only imagine that the interiors of the GTM cars are just as varied and customized, at least from a finishes viewpoint.
My point, if you love or hate something like a Solstice interior, most likely if determined to do so, a custom interior seems possible.
olpro, as I've mentioned before I like to compare different vehicle egonomics, their functions may differ but people are people and they still have to fit. One of the most popular light aircraft with side by seating is worth looking at, just for a back of the mind reference, at least I think so.
Cirrus SR22
http://www.classg.com/aircraft-perfo...SR22-specs/547
The Cirrus SR-20/22Quote:
Cabin Height 4 ft 2 in
Cabin Width 4 ft 1 in
http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-da...ts.main?id=167
Cirrus SR22Quote:
The cockpit interior is based on modern automotive designs.
http://www.the-blueprints.com/bluepr...w/cirrus_sr22/
Attachment 5255
Cirrus SR22 Aircraft Seat Covers ..........INTERIOR PHOTOS
http://www.aerosheep.com/Cirrus/SR22...at-covers.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/observe...413983/detail/
Attachment 5256
I have not been in a Cirrus SR22, but my cousin (a pilot) has and tells me it's very nice. From a design standpoint, I like the whole co-pilot concept for the passenger, so they do not feel less important than the driver. However, in the end it just has to make sense otherwise it's a square peg in a round hole.
I understand what you are saying about the whole co-pilot thing, but obviously cars are far different than airplanes. The passenger of a plane can actually help with maps, radios, navigation, and even flying. What's the passenger of a car going to help you do? Shift? I like interiors like the 1993 Camaro.Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i
http://www.carcraft.com/featuredvehi.../photo_10.html
Or the Supra...
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CBkQ9QEwAw
I actually really like the Supra. Everything is angled towards the driver by quite a bit, and the tach is front and center, right where it should be.
Actually, if your a rally fan (as many Subaru owners are) the passenger does all of those things - well, not flying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve91T
However, even though the idea of a "new Stratos" got tossed around alot earlier, the 818 seems to be squarely in the track day/autocross realm based on most of the recent comments in other threads.
Exactly, this isn't going to be a rally car.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhyrraM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve91T
I agree...I'm setting up my interior for my other project based on the Supra (imagine the rest of the front dash using the USDM STi gauge cluster, which should match the prosport gauges in the wrapped console):
http://youtu.be/vticTKMwOqk
http://youtu.be/pN9IaCcqEdg
http://youtu.be/rEijULWbTfY
And I think I'd probably do the same for my 818...Though my ideal interior would have a lot of high-tech stuff like HUD, etc. From my entry into the 818 contest for best technology (which obviously didn't win :( Still trying to figure out what the winning technology entry had that was actually technological? But I digress... :) )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b_-daC64sOU#t=19s
Mike
I would love to have that style dash in my 818, if someone were to start selling that section that we could attach over the existing dash to make it more driver oriented I would love it. The only thing I would want there would be to have my double din in there underneath the gauges
That was fun seeing Hiryu's interiors, especially the one starting outside with the gull wing doors and the "visit" to the interior. :)
I hated the supra interior. Yes, it had a good driver oriented slant to it, but it was MASSIVE and had a big heavy feeling to it. Lots of open, plain black areas. It could have been trimmed down and made lighter (visually) while still retaining that drivers slant to it. The guages area flowing into the center stack and then sweeping into the console all as one swath, while sounding good on paper, was pretty bad in execution.
Considering how close the occupants are going to be from each other, I think some of the ideas above with a simple bar across the car with a guage and radio "pods" will make for a clean and functional look for the 818. A center console is a no-go with the current chassis, and a "center stack" seems unlikely either considering possible "wookie knees" and the close together seating position.
Here are some notes on how an interior might get designed at a corporation, for what it’s worth…
The typical production interior design program runs concurrent with the exterior design process. It begins, well before designers start, with marketing studies. The marketing/planning people try to identify design criteria, often through a BENCHMARKING process. This means designating a few vehicles to meet or exceed… i.e. the new car should be equal to or better than a BMW 3 series, etc. Of course the requirements are further spelled out… the car should equal the benchmark car with respect to headroom, hip room, leg room but should exceed it by 30mm on shoulder room… interior features should meet the Acura XXX in terms of function, the Buick XXX for finish and quality and the Lexus XXX for ergonomics.
This doesn’t imply that a particular car is ‘best’ in a category, just that it is an appropriate target for comparison. These studies often come from specific focus groups, etc. that have been set up for the purpose – drawing from the appropriate demographics to fit the intended target group. They often will draw from other previous studies, ‘expert’ consultant opinions, and so forth.
Most often, the car being designed already exists on the road and in the market and is also a benchmark.
To verify interior space issues, an existing vehicle can be modified and tested, with a specific test group which is selected according to the issue (leg room, vision, etc.) My company had a group that measured everybody in the building for size, and kept a database on this information. They gave me a card that outlined my various dimensions as to numerical value and percentile. Keep in mind a 50 percentile person may have a long torso and short legs, or visa versa. Drawing from the data base, one might be asked to sit in three vehicles and fill out a questionnaire on each, giving valuable feedback to the engineers and designers. Video’s are taken and reviewed.
Sometimes, there is no comparison vehicle close enough to the target and a SEATING BUCK is made. Usually this starts with a wood platform (for the vehicle floor), seats modified and mounted in position, an IP, steering wheel, shifter, etc. in the proposed positions, a windshield of some kind and so forth. The door openings, windshield pillars, roof rails, sill and actual hinged (wooden) door are added. This buck is added to as the project proceeds (entry-exit, instruments, controls, vision, etc.) The buck can be raised or lowered to meet the various ground heights expected and people are run through it constantly, noting their comments and reactions. Later, as exterior information is developed, the rest of the upper can be mocked up to test vision through the various windows and pillars. Some times this is done as a “stringer buck”, where the mockup is a skeleton type construction. Other times it can be as complete as having soft headliners, cloth textures and color. Then it can become a styling presentation as well. Often the seats (for styling review) may be painted or cloth covered clay and can’t actually be sat on. For seating review, these clay seats are swapped out with an upholstered seat and the people told to not judge them on appearance at that point in the review. Later an upholstered seat may be constructed with the correct design appearance.
The buck can provide information on reflections on the side glass and windshield. Glare, vision of and over the hood, etc. for parking, all are important to study.
These seating bucks are saved and rebuilt for future programs constantly.
A production design process will have an entire interior studio working on the project, with its designers, engineers and support staff. This is in addition to the exterior studio team. There will also be a color studio team doing ‘color design’, which is an entire additional area of color and materials. This process goes back decades so nothing is revolutionary here.
Things like the manikin positions and all the dimensional issues are constantly monitored throughout the program. There are still occasional things that boil up and force fundamental proportional changes but that is traumatic and to be avoided at all costs. Of course time is money for a big corporation and deviations from the development schedule will cost millions of dollars.
In this case we are wondering what the actual seating position is, and really have little or no idea of the other seating issues like hip and shoulder room, how much space there is for the console, etc. I presume the actual FFR design team is way ahead of us. It is good that they have declared that the goal is to “get it right” and that the schedule is flexible to that end. They have an advantage here over the big corporation and its hard schedule.
Does any one like the Mini's interior? Quite polarizing, love it or hate it. It would take me a while to get used to, it is different.
http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive...terior-design/
Attachment 5257
As far a concepts go I think their are a few floating around.Quote:
Focusing on the arrangement of the instruments within the cockpit, the car’s developers attached utmost importance to simple and ergonomic control
by the driver. Hence, all control elements are in strict hierarchic arrangement as a function of their frequency of use and need for operation.
1. Everything is angled toward's driver, the driver is king, it's good to be the king.
2. Dual or mono cockpit treating driver and passenger as near equals experiencing a similarly shared or communal event.
3. A standard but clean, and clear traditional hierarchy with asymmetrical balance.
4. A pod/coffin/cocoon which surrounds both driver and passenger with a two peas in a pod type pocket or envelope.
5. Bare bones every thing is stripped down with a few instrument clusters floating mid-air on tubes/pendants/stems.
6. ............................any combination of the above.
EDIT: An original Mini interior
http://www.free-photos.biz/photograp...terior_001.php
Attachment 5258
Nice post.Quote:
Originally Posted by olpro
I'm assuming the process at FFR would be a little more similar to as shown in the Lotus Elise development video posted in this forum over the summer. The "Buck" at Lotus was set at the start for the driver's experience. I mentioned to an Elise owner that the car is hard to get in and out of so that must of meant the "Buck" somehow failed to address entry issues. He assured me that by his measure, that of being the driver in the pod, that the Buck worked and did it's job, the driver's experience is the measure of success, not egress/entry.
I'm pretty "hands on" and if in a similar situation might duct tape together cardboard tube rolls to represent the chassis frame before going on. I'm sure it would look silly and neighbors would be concerned for "my health", but I would not care if the end justified the means.
EDIT 10/16/11
Made interior template changes to the template I was using, posted details here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...missions/page5
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...2i/Automobile/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...g-detail-3.jpg
Maybe following a method established by others will avoid long viewing distances to windshields, bumping heads, instrument pods too far (or too close), poorly placed shifters, super long dash boards, and a host of other things which can consume time and derail a project by being odd or out of place.
EDIT 10/19/11
Some nice interiors shown here:
http://www.autoconcept-reviews.com/m...dial-2010.html
Sample:
http://www.autoconcept-reviews.com/m...urvolt%202.JPG
I like "driver focused", but not to the point of excluding passengers.
See "K.I.T.T." from the '80's Knight Rider series.
http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/...4/MVC-427S.JPG
http://image96.webshots.com/96/1/76/...2oRRcow_ph.jpg
http://www.enterprise-dashboard.com/...itt-hi-res.jpg
It's always useful for a passenger to glance at the gauges, when the driver is busy, you know, driving. :p
It also opens up the cockpit quite a bit.
I was always fond of the Toyota Supra, '90's Mitsubishi Eclipse, Acura NSX, Lotus Evora, interiors.
Lotus Evora is the exact interior I would love to have in this car. Simple yet gorgeous
Bumping this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idesign
Looking at those picks reminds me of a burning question I've had forever: Why is reverse on the right side at the end of the shift pattern? I had 2 MGBs, and they have reverse on the lower left, which after using it I think is a MUCH better arrangement.
1. You are pulling the shifter toward you (not away) so it's just plain easier.
2. The shift from reverse to first is a natural one (essentially the same as from 2nd to 3rd).
It just makes so much more sense, yet the MGB is the only car I've ever seen that on. Baffling...
Attachment 7163Attachment 7164
I am submitting two pics- the first is the dash of the new Morgan 3-wheeler which has taken it's inspiration from the Bell & Ross aviation watch line.
The second is the interior of a Porsche RS 61- the X bracing inside the door will probably be similar to the 818.
Click on the "Monterey 2010" JPG of my previous reply. This pic of a Porsche spyder is worth considering. Although stark in the extreme, it has its own appeal. The X bars inside the doors could be similar to the 818. These bars could be covered with leather and left exposed. Similar treatment of the bar between the seats could continue the theme and add a feeling of light weight and purposefulness to the roadster version. Exposed metal is something the Lotus "Elige'" has already done well. What do people think?
I like driver-centric interiors. Though my plan is to keep my 818 simple and light which means a flat dash. But if I were making a daily, I would build out the dash a bit to make a console.
Doesn't get much more simple than that. I like the car too!
Idesign, that interior looks perfect. The car design looks good too, I'd like to see more e-mails. Reminds me of the next gen Elise.
I think it looks good too. However, I'm betting that even that console is too wide - based on the prototype chassis.
I took some liberties going for more of a backbone chassis design to reduce sill size and stepover dimensions, perhaps creating some space to put the fuel. Just having some fun, not intended to fit existing or future chassis.
Attachment 7371
How about a design for the interior that has already been submitted??
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/...tstone-011.jpg
I wouldn't mind there being nothing but a blank gel coated panel to attach a racepack dash and a small tunnel to run the cables for the shifter in. This is a kit car, this is a cheaper project, its made to be fun to drive and not a high end luxury vehicle. People complain about the GTM interior in a car like the 818 but thats more of an interior than I would really expect. Granted in the GTM for the price level of a completed car and the beauty of the outside, the interior lacks a bit of finesse and culture but it makes up for it in other ways. No one who builds these cars can say they didn't know it going into the build, the interior is what it is and if you don't like it then build a new interior yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooluser23
Who cares about the interior. They'll only be seeing the back end anyway... ;)
But seriously... To me, less is more. I like the idea of a spartan interior. It's less of a pain to work with, easier to keep clean (hopefully), and understated - just like the performance. As long as I can get the important guages and not just idiot lights - even if that's an option - I'll be happy.
So a Lotus Elise or 340R interior then.
Those would be fine by me, though I will say I prefer the instruments actually mounted to the dash rather than a steering wheel pod. Easier to wire and a bit cleaner looking IMO.
I've not settled in on an interior yet, but did whip out a rough sketch last night that I quite liked.
However, I wanted to throw out an idea, it's not for me, but could make for a unique look. Imagine a dash which contained a single analogue speedometer. Then hide a Dakota Digital "6 Gauge Universal Oval Digital Instrument Panel" behind a semi-opaque panel in the dash (think sunglasses). When the car is parked, the instrumentation is hidden; enroute it's all there. They also sell what they call "Expansion Modules" which if I'm understanding their site correctly, lets you send additional readings to the display.
Again, not my thing, but could be a cool look if executed properly.
I like your idea, I had a similar one. Change the speedometer to a tach and put in a HUD (heads up display) for the speedo.
I've been wondering if anyone has developed an OBD-II adapter than can output ECU data to a tablet, ie Android or iPad. Would be pretty easy from there to create a MOTEC style
display, and also have navigation, shift lights, etc. all in one package. Might be an easy way to have a functional car, as well as keep the interior simple...
Yep, less than $20 for China made versions. Good ones are about $50. Google "ELM327" or "OBD2 blutooth"Quote:
Originally Posted by JAubin
Sweet! Just when I'd figured out placement of all my gauges...now I must reconsider.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAubin
Cool, thanks for the info! So after some digging, here's an app that will output that data to an android device : http://torque-bhp.com/Quote:
Originally Posted by PhyrraM
Customizable themes that let you tweak the look... I'd hope to do something along the lines of a Motec display, ie : Attachment 8793