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My bad. I was using an old FFR instruction for the IRS 11.65 brakes. I see that the latest FFR instruction (Rev C at top of document) now shows the clip installation for the IRS 11.65 brakes. For some reason the lower right title block still shows Rev A.
Making the switch to an in-tank fuel pump. Blueprint says 255lph and 60psi. That leads me to the Walbro GCA3366-2 on the ProM hangar. Any comments on this decision and selection would be appreciated.
Pat
That's what I did, and many do.
Pro M hanger is a nice piece, but you usually have to trim the tank opening to get it in per the instructions. If I did it all over I would use Oetiker clamps on the main body vs the supplied worm drive, may have lessened the size of the hole I had to trim. Also make sure you get the electrical wring harness for your pump, and fuel rated solder seal wire connectors or shrink wrap. Happy Building!
Thanks M22 - will check out everything you mention before going any further.
Picking up where I left off on post 80, rear brakes are complete. Found some shims at ACE hardware and finished mounting the PS rear caliper.
Installed the emergency brake cables on both sides. For newbies like me, be aware that it's a challenge. The lower star head bolt for mounting the caliper is directly in front of the hole where the cable end is fastened to the caliper.
Attachment 209158
First attempt was to insert the cable into the hold with the screw backed out. While that worked for getting the cable past the smaller diameter screw threads, I wasn't able to tighten the screw because the flange on the head wouldn't clear the metal sleeve on the end of brake cable. Next attempt was to fully tighten and torque the screw and insert the cable after. This is likely the only way to get it assembled AND it requires the hole being opened up as described in the manual. I did not have the issue shown in the manual where the cable end does not fully seat in the hole. Once the flange on the cable end is worked over the head of the screw, the flange does contact the caliper casting and seats fully.
Attachment 209160
Attachment 209161
One thing I want to reshare is using reamers to enlarge or oblong holes. There are lots of testimonials in this forum on the drill binding and wrist twisting from trying to use a drill bit for doing this. I picked up the 1/2" and 5/8" reamers shown below from Amazon. They are relatively inexpensive and worked perfectly on the spindles, center section, and calipers. No binding, no twisting, and no sprained wrists.
Attachment 209162
Next up... routing the emergency brake cable. Instructions don't work.
The manual and supplemental instructions indicate the brake cable should be routed around the rear of the shock. The first photo below shows that making the bend around the back side (left side in this photo) of the shock without kinking the cable, is pretty unlikely. Since the cable angles down out of the caliper I elected to continue the routing in that direction and run it on the front side of the shock. To keep the cable from contacting the CV joint it has to be fastened to the spindle or control arm. I couldn't access a good mounting point on the spindle so the cable was fastened to the front ear of the control arm
Attachment 209195
Cable fastened to control arm ear. Camera angle appears to show possible interference between the nut and spindle, but there is clearance.
Attachment 209198
Better angle showing nut clearance at spindle and cable clearance at CV joint. This positioning works through the full range of motion for the suspension.
Attachment 209199
Got the hanger and fuel pump out today and it's a definite no-go. The pump inlet is off center and the sock has a 45 degree connection, so neither works with the hanger. I spoke with Summit before placing this order and they said this was the right choice. I asked about the GCA719-2 that I read about here in the forum but they couldn't find any info on the pressure. They also seemed to indicate it's no longer available. So, I placed the order.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
My research now points to the GSS340. The Walbro website doesn't provide pump curve data to establish what the flow is at 60 psi, but it does state 210lph and 80psi so it's highly likely it will flow at 255 at 60. Will speak with Walbro on Monday to verify, and then pursue the return with Summit.
Spoke with Walbro directly. A real live person picked up the phone on the second ring. Knowledgeable and great service. GCA719-2 and GSS340 are both still available. GCA719-2 is a kit that includes the GSS340 pump along with the sock, electrical whip, hanger hose, clamps, and some misc hardware. GSS340 is a stand-alone pump. GSS340 will develop the required 60psi at 255lph. Details on performance, including pump curves, for various TI products can be found at aftermarket.tiautomotive.com. TI owns Walbro and has made their pumps for many years. The number to reach Walbro direct is 989-672-8383.
Drained center section and added 3.3 pt of Motorcraft 75W-85 synthetic hypoid gear lube with 3.5oz of Motorcraft friction modifier. This filled the case to just below the fill hole. Installed vent. Shortened the vent tube a bit and fastened it to frame. Used a Dorman 924-284 (Amazon) differential vent on the end of the tube.
Attachment 209776
I'm curious why you drained a new diff, only to fill it back up. They ship from Ford full, or nearly full. I only had to add a smidge to it, and it also already has friction modifier in it.
I was able to detect oil through the fill hole only by sticking a piece of wire in and down, so I wasn't sure how much was in there. Decided to drain it to measure amount. Upon draining I noticed a few small metal shavings, so I elected to replace it. I also couldn't detect any odor of friction modifier... but I also have a bad sniffer so can't be sure about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbranham
Catching up here on some things that were completed recently. PS footbox, floor and under-door sheet metal wrapped up. Panels went together well.
Power steering rack installed with no issues. I had ordered the Breeze centering bushings and then found that there was some debate here on the need for them on the MK4. Installed them and did use them to shift the rack approx 3/8". Don't know if that amount matters, but it's now centered. The slot in each of the bushings, which are normally at 6 o'clock are now at 5. Also, I was able to get the 53 1/16" dimension specified in the manual, using the FFR provided tie rod ends, and no trimming of the tie rods.
In photo, rotors appearing to point outward is due to setting camera on wide angle.
Attachment 209871
Pedal box installed. No issues other than the clutch pedal/frame interference thing that seems to be very common. Read a few times here that this interference issue was resolved on more recent MK4's, while others indicated it wasn't. In my case the pedal contacted the frame with approx. 1.5" of travel left to the front wall. Of the two options discussed here in the forum I chose grinding of the pedal arm web over altering the frame. Both options alter the existing structural integrity so neither gives me a warm fuzzy. My logic in choosing the grinding was that the hydraulic clutch likely puts my pedal force well below what the arm is capable of for handling manual forces on builds with much heavier clutch pedal requirements. But, I'll be sending the photo below to FFR tech support for a nod and will report back on their response.
EDIT - UPDATE 2/3/25 - spoke with FFR tech. As expected they couldn't give an absolute yes or no on the material removed from the pedal casting, but didn't express concern. The important thing that they shared was that the pedal striking the frame should not be a problem. Full travel needed should occur before hitting that stopping point. They were more concerned with over-travel and impact on the clutch master cylinder. They suggested that once I have the drive train in, hydraulics operating, and work through adjusting the clutch, that I add a stop to prevent excessive pedal travel. When I get to that point, I will post a new entry that refers back to this post, to ensure the end result is shared.
Attachment 209872
Steering shafts and bearings installed with no issues. The upper u-joint is a little close to the footbox bearing retainer. It doesn't rub, but I will shift the whole assembly down by 1/8" or so. I have room where the lower u-joint connects to the rack. Spring washers went into shaft and tube without issue and there is no lateral play that might have required the set screws described in the forum.
Photo below shows how close the upper u-joint is to the bearing retainer. Easy fix.
Attachment 209874
Just a quick item for those doing the pedal box for the first time. The manual shows a photo of the switch brackets being held in place for marking the point to drill the mounting hole in the pedal box casting. Note that when you mount the bracket do NOT mount it there. The second photo shows the bracket mounted on the front side of the drilled casting web. It's important to place it there because the switches may not reach the pedal arms if the bracket is mounted on the rear side of that web. In the photo below you can see that if the bracket was 1/4" further back the switch would not contact the pedal arm. I do have some concern that the switches won't reach the arms when pedal adjustment is done, but will address that if/when it happens.
Attachment 209875
After years of trying different things to prevent caulk from drying/curing in the tube I finally found something that works. Got it at Lowes. Don't have the packaging but I found it in the paint section near the brushes and rollers. No more tossing partial tubes of silicone as you work through the sheet metal stages.
Attachment 209893
I always just shove a drywall screw in the silicon tube. Keeps it from drying out for months
My notes from the Build School indicated a 4th hole should be drilled in the pedal arm where the ball stud is fastened. Using this position would improve pedal feel and make it less touchy. I checked back with the instructors because that would put the alignment with the hole through the footbox, way off. Both instructors confirmed that adding a 4th hole would improve feel and drilling a new hole through the footbox would ensure better alignment of the cable. I drilled the 4th hole but upon checking the location for the hole through the footbox to align with that hole it would be into the retainer of the steering bearing. I elected to use the third hole from the end and drill through the footbox aligned with that. In the event the 4th hole is needed, the new hole through the footbox will provide acceptable alignment.
Pedal arm with 4th hole added:
Attachment 210351
New cable location through footbox:
Attachment 210352
Another item in my notes from the Build School was to remove the 3/4 " cross brace to the rear of the pedal arms or grind some material away where the accelerator pedal arm comes in contact with the cross brace, to eliminate the possibility of the arm being wedged in place and stuck against the brace. You can see in the first photo below that the tip of the pedal arm contacts the brace on its front face. It seems like it would take a lot of force to wedge that arm there, but, since the instructors mentioned it, and it's a potential safety issue, I decided to address it.
Attachment 210353
Instead of altering the frame, I chose to add a stop in the footbox behind the lower pedal arm, using a piece if 1/8" steel.
Attachment 210354
Installed.
Attachment 210355
Potential interference issue resolved.
Attachment 210356
Ran my first brake line today. First for me and first on the car. I'm using the FFR supplied 3/16 pre-flared lines but didn't want the coils for using up excess length, so I had to do some cutting and flaring. Started at the master cylinder for the front brakes and using brazing rod I bent a mock-up of the routing from the master cylinder to the front of the footbox. The brazing rod is easy to hand-bend and holds it shape for use as a template. Using the template and a 1 1/8 socket in my vice I did the bends in the FFR tubing. Had to do maybe three rounds of putting it place, removing it, making small adjustments, and rechecking it in place. Once that was done, from the footbox to the tee at the front DS was pretty straightforward. Coming out of the footbox I rolled the line up and over the 3/4 tube, and then along the 3/4 tube to the tee. Slid the fitting at the end of the line near the tee, up the line and out of the way, and marked the line for cutting. Removed the line for the final time, cut it to length, deburred, and flared it. Reinstalled. I oriented the tee different from what FFR showed in the manual. I figured this particular line would be the most complex to bend and didn't feel the need to address an additional 90 and 180 at the tee. I went straight into the tee. For the line to the PS I'll 90 out to the X bar and work my way across.
This line took 4 hours. I enjoyed every minute of it and learned a few things.
1) I want a tubing bender. In the Build School we used benders and the socket method. Some of the bends in this complex piece would have come out visually "cleaner" with a bender. But even with a bender I would have used the socket in a couple of spots where the bender would have been challenging to use.
2) In one spot I used a 3/4" socket for a tighter radius. The Build School instructors indicated 3/4 was about as small as you should go on 3/16 tube, to avoid kinking.
3) I'm thinking hard on springing for the Eastwood turret style tool. We played with it in the Build School. So slick and almost foolproof. If my flare on this piece ends up leaking I have to bend an entire new piece. I'd like to have more confidence in m flares. Plus it's an excuse to put an awesome new tool in my arsenal.
Front brake - master cylinder to front of footbox. No loops for excess length.
Attachment 210416
Footbox to tee at DS F-panel
Attachment 210417
Nice job! Brake line work is very satisfying, isn't it?
Greg
It is indeed, but I think that's true only for detail nerds (like me). Funny thing is I've been reading more about brake lines here in the forum and I'm already thinking about pulling this first line out and redoing it with Nicopp and my new Inline Tube bender and Eastwood flaring tool that are on the way. Mostly just to see if I can get a cleaner run with the Nicopp versus the coated steel. I also came up with one of those middle of the night ideas for leak testing as I go. More on that after I try it out.
I love running hard lines! Get yourself a nice bender and some Nicopp and amaze yourself.
Installed the Pro-M hanger and Walbro pump. Had to switch out the female spade connector on the black wire to 1/4". After reading here about heat shrink compatibility with gas and finding some conflicting opinions, I did some web research and found that the manufacturers do not recommend PVC, polyolefin, and other common heat shrink materials for submersion in gasoline. Nylon and Viton are fine for submersion, and both can tolerate ethanol. Ordered some Viton heat shrink tubing.
Cut the connector off the black wire and removed the yellow insulator off a 1/4" female spade. Tested the Viton's shrink capability on a piece of wire (white wire in photo). Crimped new connector on black wire and applied Viton shrink tube.
Attachment 210623
Attachment 210624
Leads connected to pump.
Attachment 210625
Prepared the tank opening by grinding one small spot for the return tube to pass through, using a Dremel with a tapered grinding stone. I did not grind the larger opposite side as shown in the instructions The hanger was very close to fitting with just the one smaller area of material removal. Did my best to minimize grindings getting into tank and used a magnet and vac to clean it when done. Also ran the vac with the nozzle at the grinder while removing material.
I started out with the pump mounted in the hanger with the Walbro sleeve around it. Walbro rep indicated the sleeve reduces vibration and sound transmission. It was only a few bucks, so I decided to use it. But, when trying to insert the assembly into the tank, the sleeve was actually working against me because it was preventing me from springing the tube in against the pump casing to get it through the tank opening. I disassembled the pump and cut away the sleeve, leaving only the two pieces on each side of the pump where it contacted the hanger. This did provide some spring in the return tube but it still wouldn't go in. And I couldn't grind the one spot any deeper. It was so close! All I needed was about a 1/16". Decided to take a little material off the edge of the tube where it was catching on the tank opening... and that did the trick. Removed the assembly, added the sock, and reinstalled.
With sleeve prior to trimming.
Attachment 210630
Sleeve trimmed and upper edge of tube trimmed.
Attachment 210631
Looks great! I did the same thing with the sleeve and distal tube trimming. Careful of installing and removing the filter on the bottom too many times. I think that’s best as a one time on connection. Also it’s helpful to draw flow arrows on the top tubes so you don’t forget which is in and out. Easy to figure out with a picture but easier still to do it now. It will save you 3 minutes.
Agree. Marked them "S" and "R" on top of hanger before starting.
Is there a reason for plugging these holes or is just for visual aesthetics? I just finished up cutting off the ears as shown in the build manual (and for the 11.65 brake mounts) including the 5/8" hole enlargements.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
I can't answer that in terms of there being a potential issue with them open. I'm guessing if it was critical to cover them FFR would have included it in the manual or we'd see it throughout the forum. I noticed that the openings led to the rotating assembly so it took only a few minutes to thread them and put an allen screw in there.
After recent post by Erik Treves regarding the misconnected wires in the dash harness plug of the Ron Francis harness, I laid mine out on the shop floor and checked all plugs. Sure enough, I have a bad one. Called FFR to see what their direction was. Dan advised that RF has asked that the issue be brought directly to them for resolution. Spoke with RF. They asked for photos of both sides of the dash harness connector. Photos sent Friday morning. Will update this post once they get back to me.
Attachment 211495
3/19/25 Update - Zero followup from Ron Francis on their harness issue. Spoke with them on Monday and they said they'd track down the status and call me back. No call back. Called them again on Tuesday and they said they were having "production" look at it and would get back to me by the end of the day. No call back. Sent an email to FFR to make them aware of their supplier making commitments and then not following through. As always, FFR's response was immediate, and very willing to help. I shared that I wasn't really looking for help, just thought they would want to know that their supplier wasn't handling this at the same level of customer service that Factory Five does. We discussed buying the tool and changing the wires myself but since Ron Francis asked to handle this directly. I'll wait and see what they say, before messing with the harness. So, I'm 7 days in with no follow-up from Ron Francis. More to follow.
3/20/25 Spoke with Ron Francis. They recommend replacement of the dash harness. Sending a new one along with return info to send the old one back.
3/26/25 Received the replacement dash harness today, along with a shipping label to return the old one.
Time to check my RF harness...we had the same delivery dates. I went ahead and tapped and plugged the holes.
Update added to post 108 regarding the Ron Francis harness issue.
Back in post 99 I showed off my first attempt at bending brake lines. Well, not first. It took a few lengths of tubing to get that one section in. But, I decided to tear it out and switch to nicopp. Here's a few photos of the nicopp. Only took a full 25ft roll to get these the way I wanted them!!
Attachment 211689
Attachment 211690
Attachment 211691
These lines were done a couple of weeks ago and I've already torn out the section from the master cylinder to the tee. I did't like how close the tube was to the back of the fuse block (missed that factor when doing my layout). And since I'm going to redo that line I pulled the trigger on switching to the Tiltons. I know it's a controversial topic, but after much research I'm making the switch. So.... more tubing bending. Good thing I'm enjoying it. I also returned the bender I bought from Inline Tube and bought a Ridgid.
It's very clear that someone who is assembling the RF harnesses simply had one end of that weatherpak inserted into the jig rotated 180 degrees with respect to the direction the wires run. Seems like a 10 minute fix with the proper tool to remove the pins.
Wiring can be so tricky. Holley had an issue with their EFI harnesses a couple of years ago, the kind that caused intermittent issues. The worse! The finally tracked it down to one of their automated terminal crimpers being out of calibration. A small issue in manufacturing sure caused a lot of headaches for a lot of people.
Seems like everyone is having this same problem with the RF harness. The really annoying thing is, when you call about it, they act like your harness is the only one with a problem. Maybe they should just send the de-pin tool with the harness.
Bummer about the harness.
Build is looking sharp. Very clean and your making very good progress
Mine came backwards back in 2018. I just used the de-pin tool and fixed it.
I agree that using the tool and switching the pins is easy but I figured if I messed with the harness and then had an issue later... well you know how that plays. Either way, it's like Wizbang said, they know this is a problem, pretend like they need to research it, and then take their time about it. Just really poor customer service. Given FFR's high standards when it comes to customer service, I'm surprised that they aren't addressing it. Day 10 and still haven't received the replacement.
Intermittent problems of any kind are a nightmare to resolve. Intermittent electrical has to be the worst. Sure hope I don't face that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Bray
Agreed...not great customer service. The good news is you're a long way from needed that harness, so hopefully it's not slowing down your build.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
Greg
Installed the brake/clutch reservoirs. Bought three and then learned about the fact that the bias design results in no benefit in separating the reservoirs. But since I had them, I installed all three.
Just for fun, I tried a little engine turning (jeweling) on the sheet metal mount. Didn't do a structured layout but it still came out pretty cool. Check out the photo of my engine turning tool! I ordered a couple of 1" Cratex abrasive sticks and may try a more precise layout and jewel the firewall.
Engine turning on the reservoir mount:
Attachment 211807
Elaborate engine turning tooling!
Attachment 211808
Reservoirs and Tilton MCs installed:
Attachment 211810
Attachment 211809