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Been lurking on this build/design/engineering thread and just wanted to say this is awesome on so many levels.
For me, there’s nothing more satisfying than having a vision and making it a reality as you are doing.
Overcoming the seemingly continuous challenges along the way.
Good stuff!
Question: Will the battery configuration interfere with steering?
Dave
Thank you! I agree, the challenge is what makes this project fun for me. It’s pretty cool to see it sitting there in the garage after staring at it on the computer for so many hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by mburger
I think it all clears but that’s what I need to verify before I spend any money on the battery box. The steering is the reason it’s stacked so high. I would have preferred to keep the cg lower but the electric power steering motor sits down there. I have everything but the steering column so I’ll have to find pictures of where the shaft starts. I’ll install everything and make sure it clears with the plastic mock up box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa
I made some mock-ups of the main battery box mounts and got the front end and steering system in place. It all clears with no issues so far. Next is setting the body on and getting the front panels in place. I think once I verify it all clears I'll be ready to start having the battery box parts made.
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Unfortunately the borrowed wheels aren't going to work out once I have to install the rear brakes. They're 17" and they don't fit over the Tesla calipers. That will force me to make my wheel decision much earlier than I had hoped. Ugh.. I always agonize over choosing wheels. I'm struggling between a more classic look like the Artillery style below and a slightly more modern option. I'm leaning towards Ford Washington Blue or a slight variant for the body. I have no idea what color to do the wheels. Go with a tan-ish or light brown powder coat on the classics (to match the interior), or a metal color with the more modern style?? Gotta do some thinking because most likely wheels are a long lead time thing. Any input or other suggestions would be appreciated!
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WheelSmith Artillery - Reasonable price and custom sizing
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Budnik Remington - Too expensive for me at $5300 but I like the style.
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Foose Knuckle - I had these on my 68 Camaro and got a lot of comments on them. Easy price point to where I wouldn't be locked in to them forever. You can't do custom backspacing though so they're not likely to fit. I'll see once I have the body set in place.
Attachment 169630
I really like the Foose wheels. Looks like you can get custom offsets through these guys:
https://www.customwheeloffset.com/br...ogle&utm_term=
I mounted the electric PS to the firewall. In the FFR position the motor was below the oil pan, too close to the road for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
Attachment 169655
Some pics at post 110 & 113
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-s-Build/page3
Where do you see they do custom versions of those wheels? All I see are the standard specs, and it looks like they only carry the chrome in 5x4.5 lug spacing. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa
That seems like a good option to get it up out of the way. Thanks for sharing! I'll have to look at it closer and see where it sits relative to the bottom of the chassis - I didn't pay close attention to that when I installed it yesterday. I was planning on having a plate under there anyway to help protect the lower part of the battery pack, so it will be fine as long as the steering motor fits up above it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLev
In the top banner of their web page, there is a "Custom Offsets" link. It looks like you can specify custom offsets for pretty much any wheel.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
Dave
Great progress! Love seeing this come together.
WHEELS - Foose has difference construction available - 1 piece cast, 2 piece cast, forged,..... The 1 and 2 piece cast are the least expensive. Knuckle is available at a reasonable price as one piece cast but with limited specs. I suspect Papa is looking at the more expensive forged option where knuckle is also available. Specific designs seem to come and go from the different line ups. The Coupe design that I got in 2 piece cast with a custom offset are no long available in that configuration...
Battery BMS - what are you doing for a BMS (Battery Management System)? I've seen hobbyists neglect and cheap out in this area which is not good with such a large capacity pack...
Steve
Ok, thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa
Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by FF33rod
I'll dig in to those wheels a bit more.
I ordered the Dilithium BMS. It's on backorder but should just be a few more weeks. It will interface with the EV Controls T-2C controller. Definitely not an area to cheap out or ignore!
Actually - did some quick math using my rear track width and the FFR max rear wheel specs from the manual. Comparing that to the standard Foose wheel numbers seems like they might actually work out. I'll have to verify when I set the body down with the rear fenders attached but that would be cool.
However, it looks like they are nowhere to be found right now....
I searched around a lot yesterday for wheels. I went ahead and ordered these from American Racing - Summit has them in stock. Their standard 18x8 works fine for the front end and luckily enough they have a 12mm offset 18x10 option that happens to work out perfect for the rear. They're classic-ish looking and are affordable enough that if I change my mind later once the car is finished it's not a huge deal. I've done this before with wheels so it's relatively likely that I'll want to go another direction later once I get a feel for how the car ends up coming together.
Attachment 169760
I also ordered Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires. Should have everything early next week.
Those PS4S are lasting forever on my car - after 8 months and thousands of miles and a dozen autox events.. I've worn down maybe 1mm of tread.Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
300TW on a 2200lb car is either great or painful depending on whether you want grip or long life :D
Cool - good to know. I had pilots (bought around 2015) on my Camaro and they were great. I had about 5k miles on them when sold and same thing, not much wear if any. And I wasn't very nice to the rears.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRacer
Hi Brad,
That battery box mockup looks like it should be filled with ice and beer.
Tom
Genius!! Little more packing tape around the bottom and I think we have a plan for the weekend! Good call...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Veale
Hi Brad,
I had my steel wheels made for me by Diamond Racing Wheels in Milwaukee, WI.
https://www.diamondracingwheels.com/
They built them to the style, diameter, width, offset and bolt pattern I wanted and then I had my paint shop two tone them to match my car. Nice people.
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(16" rim diameter; better tire selection at the time)
I just didn't find anything in alloy wheels I liked better than steelies on the FFR Street Rod.
Best wishes,
Tom
Hi Tom,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Veale
I really like your car! Very cool and unique look. Thanks for the wheel info. I'll keep that in mind. As I mentioned I'd be surprised if I didn't change my mind later with the wheels. I like the ones I ordered enough to be happy with them through the build process. And then once I can stand back and visualize the car better I'll figure out the aesthetic design.
Are those custom fenders molded in on the rear? I have the carbon fiber set which is all they sell now and they don't look like that.
Brad..
I just started reading your thread and I was toying with the idea of doing this with a GM EV motor so called e-crate engine that they debuted at SEMA a few years ago but the expense and availability changed my mind. Good luck.
Yeah - the 'crate' product claims so far in this area are pretty much bs. Same with Ford.. It'll get there I'm sure eventually but for now the Tesla adaptation is the most affordable and available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastertech5
Adapting an electric motor in place of an engine is much easier but really only practical on lower power projects - plus you still have the weight, space, and power loss of the original drivetrain.
The place I had talked to in Denver about doing the custom CV axles seemed solid and the guy was really helpful - but, it was going to cost just under $2k. I was having trouble swallowing that so I looked a bit more to see if I could save some money taking them apart myself vs. shipping the whole assemblies out. I found this video showing a Model S/X CV axle teardown and turns out the guy was doing it for the exact same reason as me. The company in Idaho he linked for the axle mod only wants $130 to shorten and re-spline both axles. I just called them and it seems like the way to go. They look pretty easy to disassemble too - assuming the design is similar for Model 3.
Big thanks to Zephyr's Speed Shop on YouTube for posting this!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcA-4gwuYEo
"Are those custom fenders molded in on the rear? I have the carbon fiber set which is all they sell now and they don't look like that."
Early on with the FFR Hot Rod there was a glass shop in California that made these fenders. I'll have to do some research to find their name as it's been 13 years since I ordered them.
Note I put "welt" between the rear fenders and the body work as sort of a throwback thing.
Attachment 169853
The two-tone paint ideas came from walking through the car museum in Las Vegas and looking at all the gorgeous two-tone paint schemes on the 1930s era cars there.
Attachment 169857
Blue on Blue
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Red on chocolate brown
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Tan on Moss green
Decisions, decisions, decisions!!!
Best wishes,
Tom
PS: I now have nearly 13K miles on my '33 and just finished the 2022 Hot Rod Power Tour in June with it. That was 2592 miles of the total!
Thanks Tom! Glad you're enjoying the car. No need to look for the fender shop - I'm in too deep with the ones I already have. I was just curious.
Tom's rear fenders look like bobbed ones that Dan Ruth used to sell. My guess is that it would be a relatively easy DIY mod, as long as you are willing to paint the fenders and forgo the "bare carbon fiber" look.
Keith HR #894
Oh yeah. I talked with that guy before I got my kit. Seemed like he was winding down the business. If I remember right he could still make the rear fenders but not the front sheet metal. Since FFR only sells them as a pair I just went with those.Quote:
Originally Posted by progmgr1
I had no plans to go bare cf. Not my style and doesn’t go with a hot rod - in my opinion. I’ll see if my body/paint guy has any suggestions when I get to that point…. way down the road.
Those fenders Tom has were originally build by Langley Kersenboom (LK Motorsports) and later sold the molds/plans to McQueen Prototype Design. https://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/
They have them on their page still, down in the Fiberglass panel section.
I have liked these since they were first shown, and have kept track of them every since just in case I ever can afford to build the 33.
Dang, I really wish I had found these before I bought the cf ones. I'll have to think about that. Can I interest you in a set of brand new unused carbon fiber fenders to start your build?? hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by jayguy
Thank you very much for posting that!
Not bad - these will work out I think.
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I tore down one of the Tesla CV axles and unfortunately it can't be shortened because the diameter necks down past the spline. Bummer.. I'll need to have custom axles made.
Attachment 170025
Hi Brad, Re: Front Grille....................
What do you plan to do for appearance up in the front. Since there won't be a radiator, will you create a different 'look' for the front and eliminate the grille? It could be the same shape as the current piece but closed off across the face. Might look rather bold.
Best wishes,
Tom
Hi Tom..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Veale
It will still have a small radiator actually. The Tesla motor needs cooling for the inverter and gearbox. I was hoping to be able to fit it in the back near the motor but there's not enough room. I'm also planning to have vent openings through the battery box that will rely on air coming through the rest of the grille.
Attachment 170236
Well once again I decided to redesign the battery box. The weight (about 600lb) and cg in the front with all 26 packs in the same box was just bothering me. It would roughly be like sitting well over 100lb on top of a gas engine. I didn't want anything protruding in the interior which leaves underneath the floor the only other option. I had originally planned to do this but when I realized there would be no buffer space, I was worried about a bottom side impact. I talked with EV West again about it the other day and they agreed that the risk was pretty low especially if I had a solid structure surrounding the packs.
I think moving 8 of the packs underneath will be a good balance. That transfers about 170lb off the front, lowers the cg similar to a gas engine, and leaves some room for a small frunk space (as a bit of a novelty). It makes the HV and BMS wiring a little more complicated but that's not a huge deal. I'll add two 1.5" steel rails running front to back and straddle those with plates where the batteries sit. That should protect the packs from small objects and if it were to ever get high centered somehow the rails will support the load without crushing the batteries. I modified the mockup box and it seems much better. FFR shorted me the brackets that mount the nose to the chassis but they should be here Sunday and then I'll be able to visualize it all better.
On to finishing out the design for the front and lower boxes! It should just take a few days and if all goes well I'll be able to order all the parts soon and start work on the chassis modifications.
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Oh, and I got all the backordered stuff from EV West yesterday! Controller, BMS, charger, and DC-DC converter. That's everything major I need to get the wheels spinning - except for some wiring, contactors, fuse holders, etc. but I'm waiting to order that until I figure out where to put everything.
OOOPS, I forgot. Even my grandson's RC boat has a water cooled electric motor!Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
Tom
Batteries under the floor are what I've been thinking about for my possible future project. Are you going to have access after the car is built? Making the floorboards removeable or something? All in all, great progress on an exciting build!
Keith HR #894
You were thinking about converting a Woody right? That would be really cool. Have you thought more about which motor?Quote:
Originally Posted by progmgr1
Mine will be accessible from the bottom. I'll design enclosures for each side with 4 packs per. They will be under 100lb each so fairly easy to lift up in to place. Flanges in the bottom plate for each pack will bolt to the chassis rails. They need to be sealed up pretty good to keep debris and water out but I'll have access panels on each end for HV cable connection.