Just a suggestion on the fuel filter, I put mine behind the passenger rear tire. I do have to pull the tire to access, but no getting under the car. Clamps and connections are accessible at this location. If I can find a pic, I will post later. Nice build.
I wouldn't run water through your lines and pump. You can very briefly hit your pump with +12V to confirm it runs. It's not supposed to run dry, but you can confirm it's alive. Just make sure it's complete and properly assembled before dropping into the tank. That means (1) proper electrical connections between the pump and terminals, (2) the little S-shaped hose properly installed and clamped (a common failure), and (3) the filter sock installed on the bottom. Once it's in there, really don't want to be taking it in and out. You'll believe when you do it. If you want, check the lines with a kit like this one: 900666 Fragola Performance Systems Hose Test Kit. With a pump that's alive and lines that are checked, you shouldn't have have any problems including with the regulator. After you put gas in the tank and pressurize the system and set the regulator before first start, just check everything for leaks before proceeding. Probably there won't be any. Most common is forgetting to tighten something all the way. Not that I would know about that... Nice job on the SS lines BTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by facultyofmusic
Right! I'm using this picture from JohnK's build as a reference. It makes the most sense for hose-routing. I tried to find another place to put it but they all either don't have enough space or require some awkward hose bends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Railroad
Thanks Paul, I'll do a simple test once I have the fuel tank in-place then. I actually just received my Wilwood rear brake kit, I thought they were backordered until January but they came early. With the rear brakes installed, I can not longer put the engine under the rear of the car, so I'll have space to install the fuel tank after-all.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
What I'm actually considering now is to put the engine in for now and take it back out again later when I need to work on the engine bay / trans tunnel. Not only will it give me much more space to work in my garage, it will also allow me to thoroughly inspect just how much space I have left in the trans tunnel for my e-brake. I've read from several threads that installing the engine is a big task, but not so bad that you'd never want to do it ever again. Any suggestions / advice on this? I know that on your anniversary roadster you had the engine in during the beginning of the build and later took it back out again, but you didn't have the transmission on the first time so I suppose it's easier.
If you really need the space and don't have other options, I think this could work just fine, particularly if you have a hoist readily available to borrow or if you have space for a knock-down hoist in your build area. If you haven't done this before make sure you know how to keep yourself and any assistants safe and free from injury. I always think through what would happen if the chain simply disappeared and go from there. Never, ever get digits in between the suspended object and stationary objects on the ground, etc. You'll want a 2 ton hoist, with the chain on the furthest outboard location; you'll need the reach. You'll want a leveler bar. Go slow and easy.
As for time required ... you'll work slow and easy the first time, and it may take a few hours. When you've done it once, it's going to go faster the second time. My son and I pulled my engine shortly after install, did some teardown and reassembly, took 45 minutes for dinner, and dropped the engine back in ... all in 3 hours. This wasn't due to skill or trying to move fast; rather, the engine wasn't plumbed or wired and the process was familiar to us.
It does pay to have a helper, to keep the engine off the parts you don't want to get scratched or dented. The advantage for you is that you'll get to see the engine in the bay, take some notes about where wires will and won't fit, plan your ground and power wiring from the battery to engine, frame, main disconnect switch and so on.
Thanks for the tips John! Sounds like it won't be such a bad idea to drop the engine first. I will have an engine crane to use as well as a few good friends. It will be a fun day! I've seen on some build threads where people put pool noodles on parts of the car they don't want to scrape or get dinged; I may do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ibele
Installed the rear brakes today. The wilwood rear brake + parking brake kit was super simple to install. The caliper bracket and the caliper itself is spaced using shims. The instructions say to use one shim and adjust from there. On my install I ended up using none of the shims to get it centered.
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After installing the parking brake, I noticed that the cable ball end socket of the parking brake is VERY close to the coil over spring. When I initially completed the parking brake I had to extend the upper control arms to avoid contact. I'm guessing it will get better once the spindles are loaded?
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As best I can see, assembled properly with the proper orientations. I suspect your alignment (or lack of...) is the main contributor here. As long as it's not hitting, you could leave it as is. If you want, you could unload the springs, jack up the suspension to where the LCA is approximately level (ride height), and do a sanity check on the rear alignment. You could very roughly check toe and camber with straight edges, a level, and a measuring tape. Assuming you don't have any alignment equipment. Likely one or both are off enough to make it so close. FWIW, others have reported it being close but a bunch of these have been built with no issues. I don't remember any problems with my IRS Roadster. The Coupe has a more angled in connector of the upper coilover mount, so clears by a bunch.Quote:
Originally Posted by facultyofmusic
This is great to hear! Yes, I tried to check my camber with weight on a string and confirmed that my wheels had a lot of camber. Seems like extending the upper control arms were the right way to go. I don't own alignment tools and don't plan to work on alignment until the engine is in, but will definitely do a rough alignment before my first go-kart. A part of this is because I'm in the process of ordering a power-steering kit to replace my manual steering rack, and as far as I understand I'll have to make some changes to the front UCAs anyway so there's little point in doing an alignment now.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
In preparation for installing the fuel tank, I tried assembling the fuel pump onto the hanger. The hanger I'm using is the Pro-M High Flow Fuel Pump Hanger. The fuel pump I'm using is the Walbro GSS340BX.
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When installing the fuel pump, I noticed that the hanger power wire tabs don't match the ones on the fuel pump. The tabs on the fuel pump are the same size, while the tab sockets from the hanger are one large one small. The small socket won't fit onto the tab on the fuel pump.
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There is also no indication on the fuel pump as to which tab is positive and which tab is negative. I've tried searching online for this information, including the Walbro official website, to no avail. After searching the fuel pump on Summit Racing, I noticed that some fuel pumps come with a harness of some sort... but mine didn't. The pump just came in a small box with nothing but the pump itself.
In Paul (edwardb)'s post here there shows a harness for a walbro pump. I'm wondering if I'm supposed to buy that harness separately... or am I supposed to change out the tab sockets? IIUC the fuel pump power connectors should be electrically insulated from fuel if possible. That means the sockets shouldn't just plug directly into the pump itself right?
Luckily the fuel hanger is designed to be serviceable so it doesn't actually prevent me from installing the fuel tank (which is planned for tomorrow), but I'd really like to get this sorted out. Once I do, I plan to follow this post by JohnK on testing the fuel system.
You need the Walbro 94-615 Wiring Harness. It has the connector to plug into the pump. You don't plug the hangar wires directly to the pump. Once you have the harness, you'll need to splice the wires together. There has been some discussion about the best way to do that. In the Roadster build thread you linked I used some parts that had follow-up discussion about how fuel resistant they would be. Turned out to be fine. But on builds since then I use these: 922229 Molex 19164-0077, Perma-Seal™ Heat Shrink & Crimp Step-Down Butt Connector, 16-14/12-10 Ga from https://www.delcity.net/store/Perma-...12029.r_IF1003. They're perfect for the task. Maybe available elsewhere too. And yes, while it doesn't seem intuitive, both the pump connector and wiring splices can be immersed in gasoline depending on how full the tank is.Quote:
Originally Posted by facultyofmusic
Awesome! Got that coming in the mail. I got some heat-shrink tubing around the house so I'll splice that together nicely. Thank you Paul.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
It's the holiday season again! It's always tough to find time to work on the car hobby at this time of year. Before going on the obligatory holiday trip I've allocated a day to install the fuel tank. Let's begin!
The fuel tank came in a huge box and was very well padded with tons of bagged air and paper. To my surprise even with ALL THAT padding, it still managed to get damaged during shipping. I tried to straighten the bent corners of the fuel tank but didn't want to over do it and risk damaging the weld seams.
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Before installing the fuel tank I did the Jeff Kleiner mod as advised from other build threads.
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With a friend to help out the install process wasn't too troublesome. I did have to make some modifications to the passenger-side mounting point and bracket. The metal tube that extends underneath the rear swivel mount was 3/4" too long. I used an angle grinder to cut and ground it off before putting the little square plastic pieces back on. The passenger side bracket's front mounting section wasn't bent nearly enough to reach the mounting point and it was nearly impossible to get the mounting bolt in. I put a ~15degree bend on the bracket at the point where it contacts the fuel tank, as well as a ~95degree bend at the end. This made the mounting process much easier.
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I attached the fuel filter around the same place as JohnK and Paul (edwardb)'s build. There is the thick sheet of steel with 3 holes on it to the rear of the rear passenger wheel. That location is unused for builds that opted for independent rear suspension (IRS); it's a perfect place to put the fuel filter.
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Here's some final shots of the completed fuel tank install:
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IIRC the corners are meant to be bent. And you’ll need to flatten the area where it contacts the vertical 3/4” tubes. You may need to rebend the corners to get the body to fit. Oh and that 3/4” you trimmed off is supposed to sit on the flattened flange of the tank lip.
Make sure the heat-shrink tubing is fuel resistant. The usual olefin heat-shrink tubing (the most common variety) isn't really up to the task.Quote:
Originally Posted by facultyofmusic
I hope that gas tank filler grommet has been upgraded to a Ford part.
Oh damn, I totally thought it was shipping damage since I didn't see the corners being bent in the manual. The corners also had some cardboard stuck in between the 2 metal sheets that makes the fuel tank so based on that I convinced myself that some blunt force during shipping caused the bend. I guess I'll have to keep this in mind when I install the body. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by egchewy79
Is this a common thing? I don't remember seeing this other build threads; perhaps I missed it. The bends on the fuel tank looked completely intentional as it aligns with the fuel tank strap as well as the tray underneath.Quote:
Originally Posted by egchewy79
Right. I've seen 2 threads mentioning this already, one mentioning the part No. and another one about the leakage itself. I wonder if I should watch for leakage and replace it then it just replace it now. I did use lubricant when installing the hose which should keep the grommet from damage? Is the ford part much much better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Railroad
Thanks for this Paul. This completely slipped my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
Regardless of the quality of installation, the part itself deteriorates. This occurred on mine in less than 6 months after installation. Do it now. Waiting until you add gasoline, just creates potential for more issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by facultyofmusic
I checked the build manual again and no, it’s not listed in the manual so I must have read this on another forum post. The bent lip of the tank should be flattened so that the vertical tube and plastic endcap sits flush against the lip.Quote:
Originally Posted by facultyofmusic
My Roadster manual has the following sentence in the fuel tank installation section: "At the locations on the tank where the tank straps come near the tank, use a pair of pliers and bend the bent parts flat." Then multiple pictures of the tank being installed. Have to look closely, but the lip is flat. Important to do this for the tank to set properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by egchewy79
X3 (or whatever) on the at Ford gas tank seal. Easy to install now. A pain later. Ford F4ZZ-9072-DA. For 1987-1993 Mustang Fuel Tank. Mark at Breeze sells it as #30103 and it's a genuine Motorcraft part.
Thanks for the words of warning guys, I've ordered the gas tank grommet and will drop the fuel tank to install the grommet and fix the bends in the fuel tank when the parts arrive. I visited JohnK's garage yesterday and when looking at his fuel tank I noticed how his passenger side front corner of the fuel tank was bent the same way as mine, but the rear wasn't and looked like shipping damage. Looks like I unbent one that was actually shipping damage and another one that was supposed to be that way.
I decided that the Christmas present I'll give myself is to see my roadster stand on its own four wheels for the first time. Funny how it suddenly looks like a car once the wheels are on even though I know exactly what I'm building. :p
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One of the reasons why I wanted it on its own wheels is to lower the car as much as possible to make it easier for me to step in and out of the frame when working inside the engine compartment. After much consideration I've decided to spray paint the engine compartment aluminum panels to matte black to match the powder-coated frame itself. I'm experimenting with the possibilities of working on the paint job without removing everything from the engine bay; by detaching parts only from the panels to be painted.
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Based on what I've read, I understand that aluminum is a "slippery" metal and doesn't adhere well to paint. There are dozen threads on painting the aluminum panels in the engine bay and I'm going through each one of them to further learn what it takes. The general consensus seems to be that if one sands it down and apply a layer of self etching primer to the panels before painting, the paint job should stay. I'll swing back to this as I get closer to actually doing it.
Unfortunately not everything went according to plan. When I tried to turn my rear wheels it felt surprisingly difficult. I thought it must be the new diff or something that needs a "break-in", so I kept turning it. Little did I know, my wilwood e-brake was scraping against the wheel well! It scraped off a bunch of paint and my heart dropped an inch when I saw it. Shiny perfect new wheels? Gone. Just like that. I should have checked for clearance issues for both main calipers and the e-brake calipers. I had assumed that if the main calipers clear the wheels, then the e-brake calipers will too. This was a terrible assumption.
So now I'm in search of a solution. I've started a separate thread here just to talk about this issue. I'll keep majority of the discussions there and post any final decisions here.
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Last but not least, I've emailed FFR about purchasing a power-steering rack. Haven't heard back from them yet (which is completely expected during holiday season, no blame to FFR here) but I'm excited to get that installed.
You can try and spray paint those alum panels but if you want a high end job that will hold up over time you really need to have them powder coated. You can drill out those rivets and dissemble everything, it will be time consuming but worth the extra labor at this point to get panels that will stay looking nice for years to come. If you do go PC route make sure and bring as many as possible at one time, you get the best bang for your buck with a large batch.
I actually really want to powder coat the panels. What stopped me wasn't the fact they're already drilled in, but that I already applied sound dampening / insulation to the other side of the panels. The stuff is near impossible to remove. I tried removing a small patch of it earlier and it was such a pain in the *** I decided to just change my plans. I'm sure with strong through chemicals I can clean it off, but I don't have those chemical around, nor do I really want to do use those without proper training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fman
Will the paint deteriorate that much in the engine bay? I mean, it's always covered and never sees sun or rain. The only think it needs to deal with is heat? I admit I'm a complete noob at anything paint related, so really do appreciate your words of advice and knowledge.
Oh yea, removing the sound dampening would be a lot of work. It will be fine if you spray paint them the paint the color will hold up fine the issue more than likely will be they chip and scratch easier compared to powder coating. You could always just touch them up from a chip or scratch if needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by facultyofmusic
After discussion with several more people IRL, as well as taking heed of the advice from y'all good folks, I've decided to keep the "aluminum project car" look by using the remaining sharkhide coating that I have on the engine aluminum panels. It will protect it for quite some time. I plan to do 2-3 coating of sharkhide to improve it's longevity, although that stuff already stays for quite a long time.
Thanks @Fman for your advice! You probably saved me from paint peeling in my engine bay a year or two from now. :p
After putting the wheels on I tried turning my steering rack from lock to lock, and that's when I realized the stock F panels won't accommodate my front tires very well. I recalled reading something about modified "F panels" from other threads, so I ordered one. They arrived today. I overlayed the old F panels with the new one to transfer the rivet holes. It was interesting to see that the FFMetal F panels aren't just folded inward, but they're also much wider than the stock panels.
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Learning from my past mistakes, I traced out some sound dampening material and applied it before installing the F panels. Much easier and cleaner this way.
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The new F panels are JUST wide enough to miss the bend in my brake lines. I consider myself very lucky.
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What size tires? Keep In mind that the rubbing changes once you get the car off jack stands and get everything aligned and set your ride height. My tires were rubbing at the bottom of the panels but resolved once I had the front suspension compressed under the weight of the car. Also I’ve never seen anyone put sound dampener on the F panels. Usually reserved for the cockpit
I have 275/40/17 Nitto G2 Tires in the front. AFAIK they are gigantic compared to the usual front tires used on the FFR roadster. TBH I should have expected the fitment issue. As for putting sound dampener on the F panels, I pretty much judge whether or not something needs sound dampening by knocking it with my knuckle and if it resonates too much like a gong then I slap sound dampeners on it. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by egchewy79
Yeah that’s wider than most fronts
Not going to end the year without doing some work in the last few dozen hours! I removed all wiring harnesses and fuel lines to completely expose the engine bay aluminum panels, wiped everything off twice with acetone, and did two coatings of sharkhide on the panels. They look great! I'll call it a day (year?) now after reinstalling the harness and fuel system.
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Before I bugger off to new years eve movie and dinner with family, I want to thank everyone who's offered their help and best wishes on this project. Some days I just don't feel like working, so I go read a few forum posts and next thing you know I'm wrenching away in the garage! It's been a blast. See you in 2022! You'll hear from me real soon :cool: (y'all know I can't keep my hands off the project for more than a few hours...)
That looks Great! Nice job.
I swear I walked at least 20 circles around my car today wondering what I wanted to do today. I emptied out one of the spare boxes I had and saw my NPT pipe thread sealant, so I guess that's what we're doing today. In a post from a while ago someone (I think Paul?) recommended that I stay away from thread tape and use thread sealant instead.
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The only parts of my build so far that uses NPT fittings are the 4 brake caliper fittings and 2 -06AN-NPT fittings on my fuel filter. The brake caliper fittings were a bit tricky because I had planned to point them in certain orientations when mocking it up, but ended up having the pre-planned orientations either not very tight or so tight that I'll strip the fittings. I got them as close to the plan as possible and called it a day. These fittings are made from really really soft metal!
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After all that I sat there... just staring at the build. Then it took me, that urge to just drop the engine in. What are you waiting for?! You'll take it back out later anyway! Next thing you know I was phoning a friend asking if he's available tomorrow for a last minute engine install. It's the end of the new years holidays, let's end it with a (an unplanned) bang!
(no, hopefully not a bang from the engine dropping onto the floor.)
I spent the rest of the afternoon installing the transmission A frame and clearing out the engine bay to make room for the engine install. The A frame had 4 bolt holes and 3 of them aligned perfectly. The 4th one was persuaded into alignment via friendly physical agitation by a file. I put some grease on the exposed steel so it doesn't rust.
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Tomorrow morning my buddy's arriving and we'll try to drop in the engine. I have a 2 ton engine crane equipped with a balance-bar I bought from harbour freight a few minutes ago. I'm excited!
More people came than I expected! Everyone was very excited to get the coyote and transmission into the car. I explained to them that this install is just to check for clearance and get ideas on where I can put my e-brakes and we'll have to take it out later. We're all on board!
Being my first time installing an engine, lifting the engine itself with the engine crane was quite nerve wracking. I recalled stories of accidents and disasters from my civil engineering course from university and that thin arm just doesn't look like it should be able to hold that gigantic engine. What do you know, it did! Pretty freaking kool.
Attachment 159731
The hardest part of the install was getting the transmission into position without removing the shifter. I had to remove the transmission mounting "A frame" in order to lower the transmission enough to clear the shifter from the top. So for anyone wondering if you should remove the shifter before installing the T56: Yes, you should.
I was not able to bring the transmission to level without cutting off the default e-brake bracket. As described in other threads such as this one, the bracket will get in the way of the transmission. It needs to be removed. If I can do it again I'd remove it before installing the engine.
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I stood there and stared in awe at this successful engine install; partially of genuine concern due to the unbelievably tight fit. There is ~25mm between the passenger footbox and the right side engine valve covers, but there's only ~5mm between the driver footbox and the left side valve covers. A part of the engine harness that runs along the surface of the valve covers practically makes contact with the aluminum panels.
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Is this normal? Surely during startup the engine will shake, and during that shake the valve cover will hit the aluminum panels.
Another area of concern is the steering column. There is a dangling section of engine harness that touches the middle steering column segment. It looks like I can pull the harness back some with a zip tie, but it's still too close for comfort.
that DS is tight!!
who's the guy who showed up in semiformal wear :) I like his style!!
Nice progress in 2021! I think you really made the right choice on your engine bay aluminum panel treatment, given their condition (installed, w heat / sound treatment in place) when you asked the question. They look great with SharkHide.
With the engine installed, I took some time to document the amount of space there is in the trans tunnel. I've seen threads requesting this information as well as received PMs about it. If you're looking for the measurements, please click here to go to the separate post I made for them.
I've also assembled the e-brake assembly and decided to use it if I can. I've found a nice place in the passenger side trans tunnel where I can mount it in such a way that it pokes out from the top.
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While the clevis swing close to the transmission, I plan to use a metco safety loop to help guide the tension cables so they don't contact the drive shaft. I've also sat in the driver's seat and the handle is perfectly reachable without interfering where the shifter.
Hard to tell everything from the photos ... does the notch / gear portion stick up above the tunnel? That's pretty obvious and I'm sure you've paid attention to that. You'll have a sharper turn for the cables down by the frame cross bar. If you plan to keep the cables above the frame (and I would suggest you do that mod), just make sure the pulleys are solidly mounted for that reason. Other than that the position you selected seems like a good alternative from what I can tell.