Thanks. Appreciate the comments and support. I chose to do LS for reasons already mentioned. This build and thread isn't making commentary about Ford vs. Chev.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoDadGo
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Thanks. Appreciate the comments and support. I chose to do LS for reasons already mentioned. This build and thread isn't making commentary about Ford vs. Chev.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoDadGo
you could wrap the header and the put a "hat" on the motor end if you wanted to. I will tell you that both the truck and 33 do get quite warm if you running the side and the hood. Between the small radiator opening a very tall fire wall the heat seems to stay in the engine bay. THe boys on the power tour in the 33 hotrod were very warm (no top). The other area of potential heat transfer is in your last picture where the hooker header runs down and meets that first section of exhaust... the firewall get pretty close to that piece of exhaust pipe... the heat transfers pretty quickly right there - at least on my 427w anyway. You can almost hear it run...lol
Been plugging away this week with a few updates. First a comment about parts (again). For anyone who’s done one of these projects, even with a complete kit there’s still a lot of studying, shopping and waiting for parts. Not being the particularly patient type, that’s always been challenging for me. Some sources I’ve used – Summit Racing, Amazon, McMaster, Breeze – are crazy fast and so far remain so. Many times an on-line click on one day translates to parts on the front porch the next day. Unfortunately most of us have gotten spoiled (I'm guilty...) and take that for granted. Others aren’t always so fast and as best I can tell, now the situation is more challenging. Suppliers are short-handed, their supply chains are stressed, and carriers (especially it seems USPS) are also experiencing back-ups. So trying to take all this into account and be as patient as possible. But anyone doing one of these builds should expect things just are not moving as quickly as they have in the past.
Which brings me to two specific examples. I ordered and paid for my wheels back in early November. Promise was 3-4 weeks. I still don’t have them. I’ve called several times, and each time there seems to be progress. Was promised a ship date this past week but haven’t received any notices. Hanging in there, don’t need them now, and I’m sure they will be nice once they arrive. But a little frustrating at this point. I’ll share more when they arrive.
Second is my backorder (POL) and missing/defective parts from Factory Five. Warning, minor rant ahead. I’m now approaching two months since my kit was completed and four weeks since delivery. While I’m reasonably happy my list of parts is relatively short, there are still some key items that would be nice to have soon. So far, I’ve received nothing. I’ve called and emailed several times, and only get general “We’ll ship when we can…” kind of answers. I admit to being very spoiled. For my last two builds, I worked directly with Jay Kravitz. I tried not to wear out my welcome. But every time I asked he very quickly provided a line-by-line status of each part I was waiting for. Wasn’t always the answer I wanted to hear, but at least I knew what was going on. When I was really getting stressed over several suspension parts, he personally went to the shop and got promises on when my parts would ship. Which they did. I’ve reached out several times and haven’t heard from Jay, so guessing he’s not there any longer. Too bad. By all accounts, Factory Five is slammed with orders. I’m hearing kit promise dates are now as much as six months out. That’s great for them. I also watch with interest the expansions and upgrades they’re making to their operation and facilities. Also great stuff. But daily business and keeping customers happy has to happen first or none of that means anything. I’m sure the current situation and supply issues I mentioned has affected them too. So, things maybe can’t be the same speed as in the past. But that doesn’t excuse limited communication or the perception of lack of urgency. I’m a huge Factory Five fan and will continue to be. At this point, just trying to hang in there and still have plenty to work on. Hopefully the situation will improve soon. End of minor rant.
So, with that several areas of build progress. After considering the situation with the electric power steering assist unit, and getting some additional feedback, I decided while the upright position of the unit does clear the oil pan the exposure to heat is too risky. While there are likely ways to mitigate the risk, swapping out the oil pan and getting it away from the heat was for me the simplest and easiest solution. Although not the cheapest... Ordered a Holley 302-3 GM LS retrofit pan and completed the installation the same day received. Pretty straightforward and the instructions from Holley were excellent. Since the engine has never been run, the oil pan gasket was like new so re-used. The front of the stock windage tray had to be trimmed. But again, instructions were very clear and easy enough to complete.
Always enjoy getting a chance to peak at the innards of these engines. The LS is similar construction as many modern engines with six bolt mains. Four from the bottom and one on each side. Coyote is the same. Chrysler Pentastar the same, etc. Everything looks clean, robust, and precise.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1611415674
Trimmed the windage tray and back in along with the Holley supplied new pick-up tube.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1611415682
All buttoned up, with the power steering motor now angled down and under the engine with good clearance.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1611415690
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1611415703
I spent some time mocking up the exhaust system. First time with an under car exhaust. Looks like everything is going to fit OK. The mufflers just clear the floor, and I’ll tweak things some more at final assembly to get a little more space (I hope). But confirms the engine location and spacer change I made at the transmission mount. Also for anyone who doesn’t know, the floor on the truck (and I think on the Hot Rod too) has aluminum on the top and bottom, with a kit supplied foam insulation material in between. One question – the provided mufflers are “OK” and certainly shiny. But maybe not the highest quality? Wonder what other experience builders have had with them. In the process, also finalized my header attachments to the engine. No brainer since they are well out of the way when taking the engine in and out. Used Reflex gaskets and Permatex high temp orange RTV silicone on the bolt threads. Installed the bolts at 20 ft/lbs per the Remflex instructions. This combination as worked perfectly on previous builds. Still two more pieces on the back side of the muffler before this picture. But gives an idea.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1611415795
Also spent time on the radiator mounting. Requires locating eight holes in the radiator mounting tabs and installing eight nutserts in the grille. Took my time and all turned out OK. Clearances are tight but fits on the chassis pretty OK. Way more work to fit the surround, hood, engine sides, hinges, etc. when the time comes.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1611415803
Temporarily mounted the gas tank. No picture, but nothing new here. The truck uses the same Mustang vintage tank as the Roadster and Coupe. Had to open the bolt eyes on the end of the straps in order for the bolt to fit through. Also had to use longer mounting bolts on the front in order to get it together. Both things I’ve run into before. No big deal. Like the Coupe, the rear flange of the tank rests on the frame rail versus another pair of plastic bumpers like the Roadster. I’ll add a thin strip of cushioning material during final assembly.
Finally, assembled my fuel pump. I considered using the Aeromotive 18638 Stealth setup. I’ve seen a couple builds use it. Nice all-in-one assembly that fits into the standard Mustang tank and has several interesting design features. I’ve always been impressed with the quality of Aeromotive products. And the unit is actually a bit cheaper than the Pro-M hangar plus Walbro pump setup I’ve used before. But in the end, decided it just didn’t make sense to run a pump that’s rated for probably twice the capacity I really need. No need to draw the current or be flowing that much fuel. Even though it would be returned to the tank. So I went with what I’ve used before, and that’s the aforementioned Pro-M hangar plus Walbro pump. It’s a great setup and has given me good service. What I did do on this build was step down to a Walbro GSS242BX 190 lph pump versus the 255 lph pump I used on the Coupe. At 75 HP or so less with this LS compared to the Coyote in the Coupe, and the 255 lph already arguably unnecessary, decided to save the amps and maybe a little pump noise with the lower rated pump. The rest of the fuel system will be an exact duplicate of what I’ve done before with rigid 3/8” SS, flex SS and -AN fittings on each end, Trick Flow filter, and an Aeromotive regulator. Solid and robust setup. Interesting that the LS control pack instructions say specifically no vacuum reference signal to the regulator. So that simplifies things a bit. Nothing new here, but my pump and hangar ready to go into the tank. With the addition of the filter sock on the bottom.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1611415847
Hey Paul,
On the muffler question you asked. Obviously I don't have any experience with what comes with the truck kit, so I can't help there. However, my previous hot rod was a 1970 El Camino and I used Magnaflow exhaust with spectacular results both aesthetically and in quality as well as in the sound they produce. You may want to dig into their products a bit depending on what you uncover with the kit-provided parts.
Dave
I have the ffr mufflers on my build that came with my kit and they are ok and I think sound great. I built truck #16 and the early trucks only came with one floor pan not two . I met Erik Treves at the air show in Oshkosh and asked him if there was anything that’s a must to do on my build ? Hands down he said to wrap my exhaust. So I took his advice and wrapped it from the collectors back to the tailpipe and glad I did because like you said it is very tight to the floor and your sitting right on top of it. I think Tom Wallace took his truck to a shop and had the mufflers moved back behind the cab and exit the rear of his truck and had his exhaust system ceramic coated. I’m running an open engine but like Eric said with a hood and side panels heat is the biggest problem / concern with the truck build . Rob
On your grill stack, you need hinges if using hood; if fenders, with headlights grill mounted, you will need to raise them to clear fenders,- this may conflict with hinges
Thanks. Yes, I'm aware of the hood hinges and didn't go that far with the mockup. I am doing fenders, but aware some still choose to mount the headlights on the grille. Enough variations that I'll wait until a more final assembly stage. My main purpose at this point was to check/see the fit of the radiator and grill. Plus get the approximate placement of the engine side panels so I can confirm placement for the alternator and A/C pump on the engine plus options for power brakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRGIN MIKE
Sounds like a nice piece of machinery, Paul! I look forward to seeing what you will be fabricating with it. I'm going to pick up the HF version in the near future, and try my hand at a couple basic brackets. Will be a first for me. Excited to try something new.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
P.S. I enjoy seeing your Coupe in the background on some of your photos. Awesome machine!
Not a ton of build progress to report this week. Spent the majority of time researching and making final decisions about several important aspects. Not a lot to report on the parts front either. Still waiting for my wheels. Did have some communication with Factory Five regarding POL and discrepancy items. Have some more detailed information about several of the key items that are affecting me first. Hopefully will get some parts soon. But one key part – spindles – could be a couple months unless the vendor is able to speed things up. I know I’m not the only one waiting for those. If you watched the Facebook Live this morning from Factory Five, you get a sense of how busy they are and I know they’re working hard. Bottom line is what I said last week still applies. Patience is the key word.
Power brakes: One of my build ideas is to have power brakes. I’ve done vacuum power, hydroboost power, and a couple just leaving them manual including the Coupe. With the right parts and properly set up, I’m fine with the manual brakes. But they definitely take more pedal pressure. With power steering, automatic, air, power windows, etc. etc. on this build, power brakes just seem like a natural fit and consistent with the street cruiser build theme. Hydroboost is out since I won’t have an engine driven hydraulic pump. The power steering is the electric assist option. Based on the mockup so far, while tight, there is room on the firewall for a vacuum booster and external master cylinder if the right size and properly positioned. So that’s what I’ve been considering. One option is the Whitby setup that adapts to the Wilwood pedal box. They even have a version for the Hot Rod/Truck. But a) it’s expensive for what it is (my opinion) and b) having done a power brake conversion on the Wilwood pedal box before, not a huge fan. Especially in this case because I don’t need the clutch arm or the two MC's and balance bar. Having the Wilwood pedal box maybe doesn’t seem necessary. So, cut to the chase – I’ve found and ordered a power brake assembly that is intended to be firewall mounted and has everything. The brake pedal, pivot, pushrod, vacuum booster, Wilwood double master cylinder with integral reservoirs, a proportioning valve, and an in-line brake switch. I don’t plan to use the Wilwood pedal box at all. I will fabricate and bolt or weld whatever is needed to the shelf where the pedal box would go for the brake arm pivot. Then whatever is necessary to mount the booster and MC on the firewall. Lots of unknowns but going for it. I’ll post more when it arrives and see what I've gotten myself into. A benefit is not having the Wilwood pedal box there gives me a little more room for all the stuff that needs to go behind the dash. At least I think so. On a side note, will be selling the complete NIB Wilwood pedal box and MC’s that came with my kit once I confirm this is going to work. If anyone is interested.
Air conditioning and heat: Positively part of the build plan. Factory Five does sell a Hot Rod setup. But slightly confusing. The instructions on-line show using the same Siroco evaporator that came with the Gen 3 Coupe setup. It’s extremely compact and I understand why they chose it because I haven’t found anything else that would have fit in the available space in the Coupe. But it’s a very basic unit with two outlets that are on all the time. Whether heat, A/C, or defrost. It does the job and I’m OK with it. But the truck has room for something a little more elaborate and DD like. On the Factory Five parts website, the Hot Rod A/C and heat kit shows a completely different evaporator. One from Vintage Air and more like what I want. But not clear what you get based on the instructions. So again, cutting to the chase, I’m going to source my own A/C and heat setup. After looking at the offerings from Vintage Air and others, going to use the Vintage Air 68000-VUZ-A - Gen II ComPac - Heat Cool and Defrost evaporator. It will fit, and coincidentally I think is what Factory Five has pictured on their parts website. But not clear that’s what they’re actually selling. This unit is compact enough to fit behind the instrument panel (and squeezing everything else in…) and has separate vents for heat, A/C and defrost with servo motors on each. I’ve already purchased and received the unit, and next up is more studying of the installation and what other parts I need. The experience I had installing the system in the Coupe helped me to learn a lot. Plus I acquired the necessary tools. Crimper, gauges, vacuum pump, etc. Wish me luck.
LS accessories: Last item for research is front accessories for the LS3. In addition to the already installed water pump, need to add an alternator and A/C compressor along with necessary belt(s) and tensioner. No power steering pump as already mentioned. The good news is there are TONS of options and possibilities. The bad news is there are TONS of options and possibilities. Many of the choices however won’t fit in the narrow and somewhat limited space for this build. Plus since I'm doing engine side covers and a hood, space is limited those directions as well. A low mounted alternator on the left side will fit if it’s close. But in many cases it’s mounted high and often too wide. Same thing on the right side with the A/C compressor. Plus many seem to have the PS pump by default. Add to that there are three different LS balancer dimensions. The crate motor I received as the 1-1/2” inch version, know as the “Corvette” setup. This too narrows down what is available. Bottom line was I could find a couple alternator mounts that might work and A/C mounts that might work. But not from the same vendor and frankly no guarantees. One specific setup that was often recommended was from GM and no one had any in stock and no promises available. Another option which some have done is make their own mounting brackets. But didn’t want to go there. I have some fabrication capability. But that’s a little too much for my taste. The other option at the opposite spectrum is buying a complete front runner kit. Lots of choices but now it gets crazy expensive. But after weighing the options, that’s what I’m going to do. (Budget, what budget??) I’m going with another Vintage Air product, their 175011 LS Chevy Front Runner Engine Drive System. Based on everything I can see, plus another build I’ve studied, fits into the chassis just fine. Includes the alternator and A/C pump which tempers the cost a bit, no PS, and all the pieces and parts to mount. Also includes a new water pump and crankshaft harmonic balancer. Which bugs me to remove perfectly good new parts from my crate motor. But apparently necessary for everything to be compatible. Should give a good setup without the aggravation of trying to make a bunch of different parts work together. Plus should look nice since all the parts will be matched. Although that wasn't one of the major considerations. It’s a special order item so won’t have for several weeks apparently. Also looks like I’ll need a couple special tools to remove and replace the balancer. Haven’t found what I need at the usual tool rental places (Auto Zone, etc.) but still checking into that.
On the actual build front, did the final assembly on my fuel tank. It’s done and ready to install for good when the time comes. Installed the Pro-M/Walbro pump assembly I showed before, tested and installed the fuel level sender, installed the Breeze big bore vent kit that I’ve used on all my builds, and installed the higher quality Ford F4ZZ-9072-DA fuel tank filler seal that many of us recommend. Also from Breeze. One other fuel tank related point – the kit has the filler in the trunk bed and comes with a nice looking billet aluminum cap. The only problem is the indoor shows I go to often require a locking cap. They don’t judge what they can’t see, so many don’t get too excited about that rule. Even though it is done for safety reasons. But in this case, it’s out there for all to see. So I’m installing a locking gas cap. Using the Breeze #35317 Aero Locking Fuel Cap. Really nice piece that I’ve used before.
Trimmed the fiberglass instrument panel to fit and then the fiberglass transmission tunnel cover. With those located, proceeded to mount the Lokar Sport Shifter shown in an earlier update. The shifter has four adjustable mounts. But no obvious mounting points or hardware for the 4L65E trans. Fabricated a bracket out of 1/8” steel flat stock that goes under two of the transmission housing bolts and holds the shifter front mounts. Is quite solid but needs something on the rear mounts too. Spent some time head scratching on that one and mocked up a couple things using .040 aluminum since it’s easy to cut and bend. Was aiming for something held by the transmission mount below. But getting around the speed sensor on the RH side made it overly complicated. Then got the idea for a U-bolt around the tailshaft housing and into another 1/8” steel flat plate attached to the rear mounts. Found a wide enough U-bolt at our local Menards, although massive overkill at 1/2" diameter. Put some tubing around it and works very well. Doesn't look like it in the picture, but it's hard against the sides and bottom of the housing. Shifter is rock sold. Nothing more to do here for now.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1612020042
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1612020025
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1612020033
Two updates in one day! Opened the garage door after lunch to run an errand and found a big stack of FedEx boxes by the door. My wheels! I was supposed to get a call when they were ready to ship. Didn't, but that's OK. Nice surprise and glad (and bit relieved...) to see they finally made it. When I first saw the truck with wire wheels I thought to myself if I ever build one of those it will have wire wheels. Love the look and just fits my vision of the truck. One of the Factory Five prototypes has painted wire wheels. This one from their gallery (built by Ron E) has the chrome wheels. https://www.factoryfive.com/gallerie...hot-rod-truck/. I was sold. They are from https://thewheelsmith.net/ in California and are all made to order. Got the sizes and placed my order on November 11. Was told 3-4 weeks. That seemed a little optimistic, but OK. Turned out to be 11 weeks. Not complaining. Called them several times during the time and obviously there was the holidays. Plus they've been short handed. Plus in southern California where COVID has really be raging. But they were always very professional when I talked to them and now that I have them in person they're just stunning and worth the wait. Obviously, true wire wheels with steel rims. Not light so probably not the best for an all out performance build. But for my purposes they'll be fine. Also not cheap. But for the quality I'm actually pretty amazed. The chrome alone is beautiful work. All from southern California.
The specifics are 18x8, standard Ford 5 on 4.50" lugs (also includes 4.75"), and 5.00" backspace. I'll be running the same size tires on all four corners with no stagger. The black truck in the photo gallery has 245/45ZR18's, so that's what I'll be looking at. Probably will require 1" spacers to get out in the fenders and clear the brakes. That's what I was told. Opened all the boxes and examined carefully. Everything looks perfect. Can't wait to use them but it will be awhile. Also ordered the '35 Ford V-8 caps. (LS not withstanding...)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1612040367
Great looking wheels Paul. Nice choice. I’m enjoying reading about your AC/heat and the accessory drive options to see what I can learn towards my build.
I have the same wheels with the recommended Toyo tires - Wheelsmith supplied the correct spacers, to go with my Wilwood brakes - once spacers installed you must trim the lugs flush with face of spacer - I mention this 'cause I wasn't smart enough to do this initally and the wheels did not seat
Thanks. Appreciate the follow-up and hint. I ended up with 1" spacers on the back of my Gen 3 Coupe build. My first experience with them. I had to trim back the lugs there too. I'll watch for it again this time around.Quote:
Originally Posted by VIRGIN MIKE
Those look fantastic Paul.
Some good progress to report this week. The best news is that I received three big boxes of parts from Factory Five. Thanks to Brent and the team! Still have a few significant parts missing (like the spindles…) but I’m down to 7 open POL items and 1 replacement for a defective part. That’s excellent progress and won’t slow me down for quite some time now. Still waiting on my power brakes assembly and the frontrunner setup for the LS. But those aren’t Factory Five and hopefully will be in the next week or two.
Couple of comments about how I’m approaching this and my other builds. There are really no “cookie cutter” builds. At least not for me and to some extent for most others as well. Each has its own set of options and choices that take some planning. Probably especially the lower volume truck like this, choice for LS and automatic, the A/C setup I’m using, power brakes, etc. I’m relatively (!!) certain everything will work and fit together. But needs to be approached in a particular order in my experience. First is to install (final or mock-up) those things that are immovable and can only go one way. That includes (somewhat obviously) the engine, transmission, front and rear suspension, steering setup, pedals, gas tank. So that's what I'm doing. With those landmarks, now fit everything else around. In this case I can already see the dash area is going to be very congested. I’ve spent a lot of time looking at other builds, both truck and hot rod since it has some similarities. My plan now is to put the LS PCM and power box behind the dash. Will probably require me to slightly relocate the Ron Francis fuse panel and seriously diet the harness. That's OK. Did that with the Coupe. Also the heat/A-C evaporator and related hoses, transmission controller, power steering controller, headlight relays, and I’m thinking on piling on even more with cruise control. All needs to fit back there. Fortunately the truck has a little more space, as best I can tell, than the hot rod. Also a little more than the Coupe I recently finished. We’ll see.
Speaking of space, also planning wipers and likely washers. Wipers are required for Michigan plus fits the plan for the truck’s use. Washers are also technically required, although I’ve managed to skirt that on a couple builds. Will fit them if I can. I was very happy with the Specialty Power Windows WWK-2 Standard Universal Wiper Drive Kit I used on the Coupe. So have the same system now on-hand for this build. Saw an interesting installation on another build putting the drive motor on the side between the door hinges and curving the drive tube up and underneath the windshield. Planning to try something similar. In conjunction with everything else as described previously. Wasn’t sure about wiper placement, sweep direction, etc. So did a quick search. The original ’35 truck had the wipers above the windshield. Oops. And were probably vacuum operated like most of that era. Won’t be duplicating either of those features. Nothing terribly authentic about this build anyway.
Needed to get a starter for the LS, so a quick update about that. The LS crate instructions call out a specific AC-Delco starter. Initially found it’s a $300-400 part (!!) so looked at aftermarket starters instead. Picked up a Powermaster 9609 Mastertorque starter that is supposed to be for this engine. They are bulkier than the OE style. But with adjustable clocking thought I could make it fit. Wrong! Not even close. The tight headers on one side and the crank sensor just behind the starter made it a complete no-go. Back it went. Found the recommended ACDelco 323-1063 (10465385) starter for a much better price. Only slightly more than the Powermaster. It arrived and fits. With a little more research, found it’s a truck starter and somewhat longer than the AC-Delco standard OE (and much cheaper) starter for this engine. It is close to the header though, so will investigate a heat shield or wrap. Others have cited the need for that and I can see why. That's a knock sensor visible in the pic. The crank sensor is behind the starter and hidden.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1612783463
One of the items just received from Factory Five was my Ididit steering column. Since this is one of those immovable pieces I mentioned earlier, got it mocked up. First I’ve seen or handled anything from this company. Seems like very high quality and sure looks nice. Like not having to mess around with turn signals and hazards. Plus an actual horn button on the wheel. I like it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1612783544
Another of the items just received was the rear suspension lower control arms. That gave me everything I needed to mount the rear suspension. That Moser axle is heavy to say the least. But rolled it under the lift and lowered the chassis down and hooked it up just before Super Bowl kick-off. The usual spreading of chassis tabs and a little spacer adjustment. But all pretty OK.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1612783501
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1612783490
I did a very quick mock-up with the driveshaft in place and pushing the rear suspension to roughly ride height. Immediately found the decision I made to change the provided 1-1/4” transmission spacers to 1/2" was a big mistake. At full droop, the driveshaft was hard against the chassis and not even close. Score Factory Five engineering 1, me 0. Put the supplied spacers back in and everything just clears. Will do more adjustments during final assembly but I think it’s going to work. Driveshaft length looks OK. One thing that occurred to me is this would be a simpler situation if I used the upper suspension mounting holes instead of the lower ones. Curious which set of holes other builders have used? My thought was with the wheel/tires I’m using, having full fenders and running boards, plus my planned use all equal going with the higher ride height of the lower holes. But I’d get better clearance with the upper ones. It’s possible I might have to put limit straps on the rear axle once the final pinion angle is set in order to prevent driveshaft hitting at full droop. Haven’t seen anyone have to do that.
That’s it for now. Will keep forging ahead.
Hi Paul: I used the lower set of holes plus have the ride height around an inch taller than specified. Some of the streets in my city are terrible and was concerned for the bottom of the grille.
As a result the driveshaft hit the frame very hard, partially because of the BBC/‘Glide combo. I cut that chunk of frame out and then reinforced with a driveshaft loop to get strength back plus additional safety.
Never thought of a limiting strap...that’s an awesome idea.
Best Regards,
Pat
Appreciate the response very much. Thank you. Good to hear it's not just me. Yeah I was concerned about the height of the grille as well. Even with the higher ride height. Our roads aren't great around here either. But I'm more worried about driveway transitions and approach angle in general. Scraped the Roadster noses a couple times and this is at least that low. I'm going to leave the suspension where it's at for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Landymore
Yes, my take is things would line up much better using the upper holes. But like others I am willing to work through the issues for a little more clearance offered with the lower holes. I did move my rear shocks to the upper holes, in my case that limits the downward suspension travel just enough to avoid driveshaft contact at full droop.
Paul,
Now that you've been doing the mock-up and some serious wrenching, what is your impression so far compared to the Type-65 Coupe?
Steve
Excellent idea. I'm trying it. Thanks for posting. This forum is awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuyver
Hey Steve. They are just so different. Obviously both from Factory Five so share some of the same overall concepts with frame design, aluminum panels, fiberglass body, etc. And similar assembly processes. But beyond that, really couldn't be much more different. Very few common parts. At least the major ones. Will be easier to climb in and out of. But space inside is surprisingly limited. Will be OK for us since both my wife and I are very average in size. But many have commented that over six feet tall (not me...) will be tight in the truck. Creature comforts I expect a little better since it has full roll-up (powered) windows, undercar exhaust, etc. The wheelbase of the truck is much longer, so I'm going to be interested to see how it rides. Don't expect it will be like our SUV. But maybe a bit more of a long distance cruiser than the Coupe. Which isn't bad BTW. Bottom line, very different end products and hard to compare.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoDadGo
Just curious on your starter selection. I am researching that now and considering the ac delco 12617229 (about $120) along with the camero heat shield 12629286. The solenoid has a square plug instead of a stud terminal but I found the connector parts at Mouser. Did you come across any reason why the that starter would not work? Let us know who is dealing on the one you went with... from what I have seen they are awfully proud of those in the $350-450 range..
When I found the Powermaster 9609 wouldn't work I was tempted to go with the AC-Delco 92279386. My crate motor directions say to choose "2014 Chevrolet SS" whenever selecting replacement parts. And that's the OE recommended starter for that vintage. Not sure how that compares to the 12617229 you're looking at. It's all a little confusing. But then I saw the crate motor recommended 323-1063 (10465385) for $209.16 plus tax and free Prime shipping on Amazon. So jumped on it. Was here in a couple days and installed fine as pictured. It is a reman, but seems many are and I'm OK with that. Going back to Amazon this morning, I see it's now listed as $321.69. So that's just crazy and I have no explanation. I went with the recommended 323-1063 (10465385) because I found it's a truck starter, as I mentioned, so suspected it's a bit more heavy duty. But just a guess. But also because it didn't require any special connectors.Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuyver
That heat shield looks interesting but I don't think would work my the starter I have. Looks like it fits under the two mounting bolts and then another at the end of the starter. The 323-1063 (10465385) has one long and one short mounting bolt, and nothing at the end. My plan right now is to get a wrap for it.
Paul,
I may have an unused starter heat wrap I never used on my old El Camino. Let me look for it and if I find it it's yours.
Dave
Hi Paul -Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
Just a quick note about the starter they recommend for the crate motor you purchased. The GMPP harness you purchased either has a blank solenoid wire or terminates in a special round terminal that is designed specifically for the starter they recommend. I notice the starter you have does not have this setup and also wont accommodate the recommended heat shield. I am sure it will work fine as is but just wanted to point out there are significant differences and most of the LS crate motors interchange the early Camaro SS or Corvette subassemblies.
Your build as always is looking great!
Thanks for your post and comments. The Chevrolet Performance 19354328 LS2/LS3 Engine Controller Kit I have does not have a connection for the starter. Spent quite a bit of time studying everything when I first received it and comparing to my experience with the Coyote harness. This was one of the differences. I was a little surprised. Read and re-read the instructions and examined the harness. Nothing. So I'm planning to route the usual Ron Francis blue start wire to the small post on the starter. Which has +12V when the ignition switch is turned to start. Easy enough to use a ring terminal and nothing special to connect to the starter I'm using.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon4570
I was surprised too, from what I could tell the LS3 controller gets +12 battery feed and a +12 ignition feed. I will use the Ron Francis EFI/Coil for the later. Evidently when the LS3 controller senses crankshaft rotation (along with a host of other things) it kicks off ignition coils and fuel injectors.
Paul, your build threads are the gold standard. I learn something new every time I read them. Even re examining them I pick up new things I wouldn’t have known to do. Little tips like the 3 ring binder, a great idea I wouldn’t have thought of until my second build. I didn’t even know you could ask for a picture! My completion date is tomorrow and I’m already light years ahead because of your threads.
Thank you, I genuinely appreciate it.
I can’t wait to see how this turns out, it’s going to be incredible. Good luck!
Busy week with other things including getting our taxes done and clearing snow. But did manage some progress on the build and since I seem to be into weekly updates, will post one. Plus, I have a question.
Focus remains on rounding up parts. Anyone doing a build needs to consider things aren’t quite the way they were pre-pandemic. No update on my POL items since last week's update. But wasn't expecting anything to change and right now nothing is holding me up. To do the final planning and layout of my dash area, really need the power brake assembly I ordered a couple weeks ago and was only supposed to take a few days. Talked to the supplier and the Wilwood master cylinder is back ordered. They’re hoping to get it this week and finish the assembly. We’ll see. Also waiting for my Vintage Air frontrunner system. But the original promise date is still over a week away. So, no panic. Yet. Be prepared for this.
Speaking of parts, I tentatively had cruise control on my wish list. Decided to go for it, so have that on order too. In stock so should be here soon. Another module to install behind the dash. Oh good. But it fits with my overall build plan and now is the time. It’s from Dakota Digital and a drive-by-wire system that plugs into the LS. Specifically I'm getting their model CRC-1000-2. Went for a dash mounted controller. They have a version that replaces the turn signal stalk. But the wiring isn’t integral that I could see, and really didn’t want a wire dangling from my shiny new Ididit column. Dash mount will be fine. Or maybe on the center console I'm thinking about.
Back on the build front. I’m using Autometer gauges and the standard center cluster layout. So used the provided template to cut the holes in the dash and temporarily mount the gauges. The template piece can also be finished and part of the design. Not sure yet what I’ll do there. For the A/C, since the Vintage air unit has three dash outlets I want to use all three. Plan now is round ones on the ends and a rectangular one in the center. The paper patterns are the size and tentative locations. I won’t be cutting anything, including the defroster vents, until I have everything placed behind the dash and confirm I have room to run the ducts. Also fit the dash around the Ididit column. Used the template in the manual as a starting point. But didn’t cut it wide at the bottom like they showed. Finally tweaked the fit at the ends a little more and I’m happy with how the dash fits at this point.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1613345843
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1613345852
Speaking of the Autometer gauges, spent some time reading the instructions and studying how the gauges will connect. Tach, speedo, volt, and fuel gauges all are straightforward. For the water temp gauge, common LS hookup is a port at the rear of the RH head. For the oil pressure, can put the sending unit down by the oil filter in a bypass port. But it’s really tight around the headers there and once again heat is a potential issue. The OE oil pressure port is on the top center right behind the intake. The crate motor doesn’t use the OE oil pressure signal, so I’m going to replace that sending unit with the Autometer one. Both require metric to 1/8” NPT adapters. So, have those on order.
I spent the better part of a day figuring out how the mount the Vintage Air evaporator behind the dash. The unit came with some universal mounting brackets and has a series of nutserts all around the case. But nothing really lined up very well with the frame tubes on the back side of the firewall where it needs to mount. Plus I want the flexibility to adjust the location based on other things that have to fit around it. So I used a scrap piece of .063 aluminum I had on hand plus some other bits and made a hangar that holds it. First chance to use my new brake. No picture. But the evaporator and mounting plate are one unit and I can slide it back and forth as needed and permanently mount when the time comes.
Changed the transmission mount spacers again. In the last update, I had the originally supplied 1-1/4” spacers back in. But the drivetrain angles just didn’t quite work out. Plus my Lokar shift cable was hard against the underside of the frame and exhaust header downtubes also really close to the frame. Now I’m back down to 1” spacers and I think this is going to work. Yes, 1/4" mattered in this case. Drivetrain angles are now in acceptable ranges per the Tremec app. The shift cable has clearance. And the downtubes are as good as they’re going to get for now. Wouldn’t be surprised if that last item will require some more attention in the future.
Today I started the journey of drilling for rivets. Laid out all the holes for the inside floor pieces and going at it. Before that, went through all the provided aluminum pieces to confirm the locations, check fits, etc. The actual number of pieces is considerably less than either the Roadster or the Coupe. And since I prefer powder coat, reviewed which pieces need to be coated. Surprisingly, just a few. Many are completely buried once everything is complete. So will finalize all that and have ready when I take the frame for coating. In the process, found two parts that I can’t figure out. Hoping some other truck builders can enlighten me. Included were two pieces marked “Inside Door Sills.” Left and right. These are not in the build manual anywhere. At first thought they might go on top of the body at the door sills and cover the edge of the body and over onto the carpet. But the way they’re bent not seeing that. Seems they could only go under the body, e.g. between the frame and where the body sits on the frame at the door sills. But I don’t see any purpose of the pieces being there. Anyone?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1613345895
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1613345886
Going off topic from my build thread, but in the category of “Built Not Bought,” I ran across a series of YouTube videos where a guy is building his own super car. By build I mean design, make the molds, lay up the body, fabricate the frame, build up the engine, etc. May not agree with every technique and build choice. Including the chosen engine since I’m an American V-8 kind of guy for this. But I’ve found it fascinating and a little addicting watching the videos. And there are a bunch of them. If you read his bio, he's basically self-taught. These two videos are overviews. There are a bunch more. This is truly "Built Not Bought." Don’t want to get off topic or get into a string of comments about this. And maybe many/most of you are familiar with this. I wasn't.
https://youtu.be/Oz3h7LQj-p4
https://youtu.be/3Ma8oXIRA20
Back to the build.
Nice progress, I wanted cruise control and was looking at the Rostra units but to date I cannot get confirmation of the correct pulse per mile signal being available off the LS computer. There are Can Bus options that would work however I already bought Speedhut Can Bus gauges and per their techs if you plug in another Can Bus device the gauges will stop working. So for now no cruise.
I scratched my head over those door sills too. I actually drilled holes to place them over frame rails but did not see what purpose they served. I finally ran across this photo in the electronic manual which shows the sills installed over the fiberglass sill and carpet. I am nowhere near that stage so I have put them away for now.
Attachment 142719
Thanks for that picture. I have the the electronic manual and paper manual and it's not in either version I have. I see now how they plan for those parts. Kind of ugly though. Not sure I'll use them. But like you said, nowhere near that stage yet.
The Dakota Digital cruise control version I'm using does use the CAN Bus signal. They also have a VSS version. CRC-2000. Maybe that would work for you?
Another busy week for non-build activities but made some progress. Our Michigan winter hasn’t been brutally cold like sometimes in the past. But plenty of snow. Probably 12-14 inches on the ground right now. Thankful for my Cub Cadet snow thrower. Hope all our forum friends in Texas are doing OK. They are just not geared up for this kind of cold. We have family there so a few firsthand reports. Thankfully, they’re doing OK. Although were without power for a while.
Still waiting for parts. Seems to be a consistent theme with this build. No POL items again this week, but no holdup there. The most important item I need is the power brake module mentioned several times. This is one of those immovable objects I described before and is necessary in order to lay out all the behind the dash components. There was a thread on the Factory Five Builder Facebook page where a guy asked if building one of these was like putting together Legos. Apparently that was his expectation. Fortunately most responded that it isn’t. I stayed out of that one but agree. Factory Five does their part to give us a canvas to work with. But there are so many options and possibilities and always will be things to work through. This week had several of those examples for me.
Started in with drilling and clecoing the floor panels. Like later versions of the Hot Rod, and (I think…) the truck from the start, this has floor panels on both sides. Top and bottom in the cockpit with foam insulation panels in between. So started with the bottom pieces first. Nice to have a lift to get that work up in the air. Then moved to the two inside pieces. Used the same process for both. Outlined the frame, laid out the holes, drilled the aluminum, then back into place and drill the frame adding clecos as I went. I managed to break the good old #30 bit that did most of my Coupe build. Even with regular trips to the Drill Doctor just eventually gave up. Then managed to break a brand new one after just a couple holes. Watch out for welds. They are drill breakers. I had to trim the top pieces just a bit around the transmission. That automatic is wide. Also had to add a little to a couple of the weld notches. Finally, while both top and bottom frame welds had been ground at the factory, some of them needed a little more for the panels to be as flat as I wanted. But easy enough to hit with an angle grinder. These are my usual “how many clecos does it take” pictures. I use plenty of them. Because I can. :p
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1613911073
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1613911081
With the floor located, determined the location for holes to pass the shift cable through (not pictured) and fitted the fiberglass tunnel cover to (hopefully) it’s nearly final location. No mention that I’ve found in the manual how to attach when the time comes. Thought about using nutserts and screws. But I’m thinking I’ll just use adhesive and rivets. With insulation and carpet it’s not going to be easily removable. I did have to spread it some to fit around the auto trans. The manual describes narrowing it, but that could only be for a smaller manual trans. Which would be important as well to gain additional footspace for the clutch. Which is already a little tight. Fortunately, won’t have the pedal in mine so should be enough room. I did have to cut a bit out of one side to clear a part of the transmission that was slightly above the floor. In the area of the e-brake.
Speaking of the e-brake, assembled that. I thought about not using it and going with an electric E-Stopp setup. But I feel like things are getting complicated enough and with an automatic trans don’t expect to be using the e-brake very often. Plus there’s the matter of the added $500 bill. Some don’t like the Factory Five designed and produced e-brake compared to the Mustang donor ones used in the past. I’ve used both and don’t have a problem with the newer Factory Five one. I do make two small changes. I don’t care for the plastic bushings on the main pivot. They happen to be the same ID and OD as the bronze oilite bushings FF uses for doors, trunks, hoods, etc. And I have a bag of them. So I sand a pair thinner and substitute those. Don’t know if it matters, but I prefer those over the plastic. Seems a little more stable and maybe stays that way longer. The other change I make is use a 10-32 bolt and some washers instead of the drive pin for the ratchet tooth. Stabilizes it better IMO and improves the latching a bit. I’ll take the whole thing apart and throw some chassis black on the pieces later. But for now fitted it into the factory location next to the transmission tunnel cover. Takes a hole cut into the cover. I also adjusted the slots in the mounting brackets a bit so that it’s tight against the cover. The kit doesn’t include a boot, so will have to figure that out plus the added hole to clear the transmission seen in these pictures.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1613911111
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1613911120
I showed the Wheel Smith spoked wheels previously. Got the wild idea these might look pretty cool on the Coupe instead. What do you think?
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1613911147
OK, just kidding. Actually I’ve been told these wheels require 1” spacers on the truck. To get the wheels/tires out into the fenders where they belong. But also to clear the brakes. Since I don’t have spindles and the front suspension and brakes assembled yet, I checked the fit on the Coupe which has the exact spindles and 6-piston Wilwood brakes. Confirmed I need at least .70” to clear the brakes. So 1” spacers should be perfect. Checked the back on the truck and they clear the single piston Wilwoods without spacers. But will add the 1” spacers there too. I used Eibach 90.4.25.010.3 Pro-Spacer 25mm (1 inch) wheel spacers on my Coupe build. Others have used them as well. Very high quality and wanted to use the same ones again. Unfortunately, they were out of stock nearly everywhere. A seller on Amazon was “willing” to sell them for > $200 pair. Uh… no. Again, the current supply chain challenges seem to be widespread. Anyone doing builds should expect it. Clicked around and found some at CJ Pony Parts for a much better price. Received them yesterday and they seem decent. Will have to cut studs on all four corners. But that’s not a surprise. Did the same on the Coupe.
My plan is to finalize the dash area once the brake module arrives. Also install the front runner kit to confirm fitment up front. It's supposed to ship this week. Then remove the cab, finish drilling the rest of the aluminum pieces, then strip it all down and out for powder coat. Expect some weeks for all of that.
Ferrari’s and Jaguars of that era had wire spoke wheels. Why not a coupe, especially one without stripes and gum balls. I think it would be cool to see once you have tires. Truck build is great. Thanks for posting and sharing as always.
-Steve
Hey Paul, You should have received a e-brake boot. Should be the same one as the roadster.
Also just FYI, Although I guess it may be too late.....
I have this front accessory set up on a pickup here with hood and side panels and fits just fine. LSXM-WRAPTOR-ACO from CVF , this is what I will be ordering for my pickup.
https://www.cvfracing.com/chevy-ls-e...tor-mid-mount/
Its about $1000 cheaper than the vintage air unit.
Thanks Ron. Checked with Factory Five on the e-brake boot. My bad. The carpet set is one of my POL items and the e-brake boot is clearly listed as one of the items included. I just missed it. Will probably take a little modification to fit, but still better than starting from scratch. Yeah, that front accessory set is cheaper than the one I picked. Partly it looks like because they don't replace the harmonic balancer like the Vintage Air setup does. I'm getting one that's finished in black, so the price difference is a little less than indicated. But still cheaper. I'll keep that in mind if something happens with what I already ordered and is due to ship any day. Appreciate the feedback and that you're following my build.Quote:
Originally Posted by FFinisher
Looking great (as expected :) ) Paul.
You may already know but replicaparts has an eboot trim bezel for the hot rod (and will fit the truck of course) that finishes it off nicely.
Steve
Trying to figure out if you ever get your shop dirty.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
Really not a lot of progress to show this week. Zero updates on the parts front. I’m rapidly running out of things to work on at this stage. My biggest issue right now is the power brake assembly. It's still waiting on the backordered Wilwood MC. I have to get that planned and placed first. Then everything else behind the dash will fit around it. I have a good idea how I'm going to lay everything out. But not going to go any further until the power brakes are installed. Good timing because we’re going to be away for 8-9 days starting later this coming week. Our first travel away from home for almost a year. Like many. We’re driving to Texas to visit our son and daughter-in-law and meet our new granddaughter. Beautiful Hannah Joy is now 10 months old. Sharon and I have both had our COVID-19 vaccines and because of their vocations so have our son and daughter-in-law. We’re going to drive straight through. No hotels or inside dining. We feel safe doing this and so do they. And Grandma is just not going to wait any longer. Will be a long haul down and back. But worth it. Hopefully, some progress with parts during that time.
I did get the wheel spacers mentioned last week all mounted. As is typically the case, had to trim off the ends of the existing wheel studs so they were flush or just under the face of the spacers. I used an angle grinder for this on the Coupe. Since the front hubs are loose, decided to try cutting them using my Milwaukee portable band saw that’s mounted in a Swag table. Quickly becoming one of my favorite tools and worked great! Cuts like butter with complete control. Worked so well I took the band saw out of the table and cut the rear ones holding it freehand. Also worked great. Much cleaner and neater than an angle grinder. Touched all four corners up with a file and done. Also painted the inner surfaces of the front and rear hubs with POR-15 42038 gloss black engine enamel. After prepping with POR-15’s cleaner and metal prep products. That works so well I’m seriously considering doing the front suspension parts the same way. Super durable and looks like gloss black powder coat. Just wear gloves when working that stuff. Or plan to wear it for a while.
I spent upwards of two days (yep, that’s right) working on my electrical plan. I’ve found that figuring all this out up front pays off in the long run. I make a spreadsheet and identify every from and to connection. This build is the most complicated yet in this regard. In addition to the usual Ron Francis harness and Autometer gauges, this build has: LS control pack, electronically controlled automatic transmission, Lokar sport shifter, heat and A/C, electric power steering, cruise control, Ididit relay pack for the headlights, power windows, wipers and washers, and a fan mounted transmission cooler. Plus a few minor details like courtesy lighting, back-up lights, DRL's, accessory ports, etc. Still a few details to finalize, but about done. Then just have to actually wire it.
Finally, today I worked on installing the wiper motor. I’m using the Specialty Power Windows WWK2 wiper drive kit. Same as I used on the Coupe. Similar in concept to the Lucas wipers but way more robust, fully adjustable, and actually works very well. Cheaper too. Shout out to Ron’s (aka DamnYankee) truck build thread where he showed putting the wiper motor in the passenger side kick panel area. I’m stealing that idea. Fits great there and the tube routes up and over under the dash. Saves room in the dash area. Made two brackets and attached to the frame with 1/4-20 nutserts. Top bracket cut out from the universal mounting bracket that comes with the wipers. It does the heavy lifting. The bottom bracket is 0.051" aluminum. Would rather it was steel. But didn't have anything suitable on hand and this will work fine to stabilize the unit. I’ll get things painted or powder coated and this assembly will practically disappear. It's just below the bottom edge of the dash.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1614565936
That’s it. Be back in a couple weeks hopefully with some real progress to report. The weather has started to tease with warmer temps. Could driving season be far away? Itching to get the Coupe back out.
Hey Paul - Would you consider sharing your spreadsheet with those of us who are too lazy or intimidated to do it ourselves (asking for a friend :rolleyes: who's been putting this off for months?) I think it would be useful even for those builders not using the RF harness and having other accessories.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
TIA Keith HR #894
It's still a work in progress and very much a working document. When it's all wired and no smoke I'll call it done. :p Seriously, I'll refine as I go and buzz things out. And still some open questions. But it's a start. Can't post the Excel file directly. But can post this .zip file. Download and open. Should work. Note: New file with updates and further details replaced the old one 03/03/2021. Attachment 143587Quote:
Originally Posted by progmgr1
Thanks Paul! Worked like a charm. Lots of useful information there.
Have fun on your holiday. We took a similar trip to visit out new (and only, so far) grandson recently. The best resource was Costco - well sanitized restrooms, gas, food and drinks all freeway adjacent.
Keith HR #894