Bob and Mike's 818Se Build Thread

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Originally Posted by RM1SepEx

Your motor and diff can't take that much space, with no radiator in front too you should have plenty of space. It's easier if designed electric from the outset for sure. too bad the form factors don't allow a centralized battery location. Willing to let out any more drivetrain details? Voltage, amps, controller, motor? Single speed?

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I'm exploring all battery location option. Right no I'm looking at 33% in front of forward firewall. 66% of batteries where engine is normally. If I use the radiator area I could get closer to a 50/5o weight distribution.

The only thing I want to disclose now.
It will be a Flux Vector AC motor controller. (my design)
Obviously an AC motor.
First car will be single motor. Street, Autocross, HPDE
Second car will have more than one motor. (2 or 4) My son wants to change the chassis to an R.
Bob

sounds like one hell of a setup! I found my biggest problem with my electric reverse trike was the ungodly noise...

all the little rocks and pebbles off the tires drove me nuts!

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Originally Posted by RM1SepEx

sounds like one hell of a setup! I found my biggest problem with my electric reverse trike was the ungodly noise...

all the little rocks and pebbles off the tires drove me nuts!

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I never really thought about that, I'll have to do some sound deadening to the wheel wells.

Bob,

Can you disclose more technical info on the 1st setup and future goal you want to reach?

For example, you expect the 28kw motor to produce how much hp and tq, what expected performances (0-60 time, top speed, other), how long to charge the batteries if you drove say 110miles out of the 120 and on what voltage (110, 400, other?), weight of the batteries with or without other hardware (or total weight of car if possible). Stuff like that.

And then what would be your feasible goal? 4 motors AWD, 0-60 under 3.5s, 160mph top, 200+miles range and 1h charge on 110volts? If yes, I think that would be a serious option for me. :)

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Originally Posted by Frank818

Bob,

Can you disclose more technical info on the 1st setup and future goal you want to reach?

For example, you expect the 28kw motor to produce how much hp and tq, what expected performances (0-60 time, top speed, other), how long to charge the batteries if you drove say 110miles out of the 120 and on what voltage (110, 400, other?), weight of the batteries with or without other hardware (or total weight of car if possible). Stuff like that.

And then what would be your feasible goal? 4 motors AWD, 0-60 under 3.5s, 160mph top, 200+miles range and 1h charge on 110volts? If yes, I think that would be a serious option for me. :)

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Hi Frank
I am not ready to disclose any more details than I have already as I have a number of different components to choose from. I am constantly evaluating between weight, power, size, range and cost to come up with the best package. The same as you would do with a gas engine.

I did not say I had a 28kw motor. I have a goal of a 28kwh battery pack. According to the MPGe standard, 33.7 kilowatt hours of electricity is equivalent to one gallon of gasoline. Good thing my electric system is much more efficient than an internal combustion engine.

The EVDL (electric vehicle discussion list is loaded with info on this) Here is a link to my first EV about 15 years ago. http://www.evalbum.com/377 and another http://www.evalbum.com/3507

Now, Back to installing my ABS. BUILD TIP. DO NOT USE A CHEAP DOUBLE BAR FLARE TOOL.

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Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy

Hi Frank


Now, Back to installing my ABS. BUILD TIP. DO NOT USE A CHEAP DOUBLE BAR FLARE TOOL.

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No kidding! wasted a bunch of my time using one of those too!

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Originally Posted by RM1SepEx

No kidding! wasted a bunch of my time using one of those too!

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http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=238197_0_0_

This one is working much better.
Bob

I have an Eastwood, maybe a bit more than you'd want to spend for one project, but amazing quality flares in seconds
http://www.eastwood.com/professional...ring-tool.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AlRwAI7OTqY

Do we really need that tool or can we re-use the OEM tubing from the donor?

Tim, that Eastwood tool looks amazing. Thanks for the link!

:)

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Originally Posted by Frank818

Do we really need that tool or can we re-use the OEM tubing from the donor?

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Re-using tubing would be a pain. But possible.
FFR supplies tubing and adaptors for brakes with a front proportioning valve (sae fittings).

But I am using the ABS, so I have a lot of custom lengths needed.
I used the FFR tubing but used my donors fittings so I didn't need the adaptors.

Tip: If your buying any fittings to go into the donors stuff. Us M10-1 inverted flare (Japanese) . The M10-1 bubble flare is for European.
bob

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Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=238197_0_0_

This one is working much better.
Bob

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Thanks for the link. I took a gamble and got a $10 ebay one, but it only does single flares. I figured for $10 it was worth the gamble if I lost (which I did).

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Originally Posted by DodgyTim

I have an Eastwood, maybe a bit more than you'd want to spend for one project, but amazing quality flares in seconds
http://www.eastwood.com/professional...ring-tool.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AlRwAI7OTqY

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I've been eyeing that and saying "I really sholdn't buy this.....I really shouldn't buy this.....but it's so cool.....but I really shouldn't buy that".

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Originally Posted by Frank818

Do we really need that tool or can we re-use the OEM tubing from the donor?

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I saved all my stuff and once I got the kit I folded it up and stuffed it into the scrap metal recycle box. It's be a huge pain with all of the funky custom lengths and bends in the OEM stuff.

Ready for Glider test this weekend (one of my milestones)
Braking system functional with no leaks(no abs yet)
Emergency brake functional.
steering complete(except for some spacers)
Front suspension complete and aligned.
rear suspension complete and aligned.
temporary seat installed.
ride height set to 5" because springs won't let me go lower with this light load.
R888 225-45-16 tires all around
16" 6.5" 55 offset stock rims.
stock 06 NA brakes
seat belts temporarily installed


Attachment 21824

Attachment 21825

Attachment 21826

Attachment 21827

I'll let you know how it goes.
Bob

Nice. I'm missing enough parts (my fault not FFR) so can't quite put wheels on yet.

I weighed my 818 in the condition as my post 93 above.

Front axle = 446 lbs
rear axle = 394 lbs
total glider weight 840 lbs or 382 Kg

Does anyone have the weight of a complete engine with 5MT?
Bob

What are the specs on your AC motor? Are you going to sell your custom controller?

Have you thought about going for the government incentive for EVs? I think it is only for "new" cars, but what is a new kit car?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governm...#United_States

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Originally Posted by mspice

What are the specs on your AC motor? Are you going to sell your custom controller?

Have you thought about going for the government incentive for EVs? I think it is only for "new" cars, but what is a new kit car?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governm...#United_States

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I'm looking for performance equal to WRX version of the 818 on the second car. We will see soon If I'm able to meet that performance goal.
No answer on your other question at this time.
I have no clue on the government incentives. I just build things and let others worry about the money and politics.
Bob

EV has to be production for subsidies

I know glider is not go kart mode. (Erik had his car 2 months before me)
But I did drive my 818 down the road today.
See videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Agl...ature=youtu.be

Everything went great.
Steering, braking, and smoothness. I could not get the slightest bark out of the tire with aggressive steering at 35-40 mph.

The car was more aerodynamically challenged then I thought.
I was expecting it to be able to maintain momentum to go back up some rolling hills. But the drag to weight ratio was just to high.
Bob

Michael driving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPiq4m7o4QQ&feature=youtu.be

Those vids are of a great quality, keep posting. :)

So what you're saying is that you're lacking power?

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Originally Posted by Frank818

So what you're saying is that you're lacking power?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_glider
Since the definition of a glider is a vehicle without a powertrain. I guess you could say I'm lacking power.
Bob

Today investigated what I had as far as axle go.
Attachment 21935

The top axle is the rear out of my 2006 NA wagon donor.
Second axle is the front out of my 2006 NA wagon donor.
The bottom 3 are FFR axles.

The right side of the top rear axle must match the right side of the FFR axles.
The left side of the second front axle must match the left of the ffr axles.

The 3 leg tripod fits all the important splines. 29 spline about 23.5 to 24.0 mm OD.
All is good.
Bob

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Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_glider
Since the definition of a glider is a vehicle without a powertrain. I guess you could say I'm lacking power.
Bob

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Sorry, I didn't know that. First time I hear about glider, sorry.
Never built a car from scratch before.

Bob, I've seen over a hundred go-kart videos, mostly roadsters, but never a Glider! And, certainly not on a public road. I cringe at what you have started and imagine someone in Colorado Springs will try to top you with a Glider down Pikes Peak. OMG
Pete

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Originally Posted by AZPete

Bob, I've seen over a hundred go-kart videos, mostly roadsters, but never a Glider! And, certainly not on a public road. I cringe at what you have started and imagine someone in Colorado Springs will try to top you with a Glider down Pikes Peak. OMG
Pete

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Mike and I had a great week a pike peak this year winning the motorcycle hill climb with our rider Carlin Dunn.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...est-62290.html
I'm sure people on bicycles race down the hill. I would love to have my second 818 ready for next summers race. I would have to get a good driver to make the run.
Bob

Put the body on to look how the wheels fit.
The tires are 225/45-16 (9" wide 23.8 tall) on donor 16 x 6.5 with 55 offset rims. wheel are spaced out 10mm over stock. My ride height is at 5"
Attachment 22159
Attachment 22160
Attachment 22162

The fronts had 2.5" fore and aft and about 1.5 above.
The tire is flush with the side of the car.

The rear wheels have 2.5" fore, aft, and above.
The tire is inset 3/4"

I like the front flush with my 9" tires but will go up to a 8" wide rim.
In the rears I'm going to go with 1" wider tires on 8" wide rims.
The 255/50R16 in back is almost 26" in diameter. So it will fill the wheel well better.
Do you agree?
Bob

I thought someone might want a blank slate to color in the back of the car.
Bob

Attachment 22163

I'm glad I went with my 26 inch tall 225-55-16 in the rear...

Steering wheel position
Is there an easy way to move the steering wheel closer to the dash?
Bob

I don't think there is. Its not a collapsible column. Only way is to make a shortened joint between that and the rack.

Yes there is, use an flat aftermarket steering wheel with a short adapter.

Should have specified there isn't an easy way to move the stock wheel.

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Originally Posted by Wayne Presley

Yes there is, use an flat aftermarket steering wheel with a short adapter.

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Does anybody make a short adaptor and quick release in one module? Everything I'm finding, you have to stack them. So the wheel ends up in the same place.

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Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy

Does anybody make a short adaptor and quick release in one module? Everything I'm finding, you have to stack them. So the wheel ends up in the same place.

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https://www.getnrg.com/products/quic...n-version/feed

I have one on my GTM. Makes the driver's side entry and exit almost as easy as the passenger side.

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Originally Posted by VD2021

https://www.getnrg.com/products/quic...n-version/feed

I have one on my GTM. Makes the driver's side entry and exit almost as easy as the passenger side.

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Do you still need a hub to go from this quick release to the steering shaft?

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Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy

Do you still need a hub to go from this quick release to the steering shaft?

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Unfortunately yes. The thin quick release will be an additional item mounted between the hub adapter and steering wheel. So it will actually bring the steering wheel aft ~1".

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Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy

Michael driving
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPiq4m7o4QQ&feature=youtu.be

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Now I have seen everything

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Originally Posted by metalmaker12

Now I have seen everything

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We did 3 runs down the hill hitting 35 mph. Maybe 40 mph getting towed back up each time.
When I was a kid, we nailed some lawnmower wheels to some wood and called them jitneys.
My wife accuses me of being a big kid now. I can't argue with that.
Bob

There's a song by Yellowcard that goes "they say 'you don't grow up, you just grow old', it's safe to say I haven't done both". :)