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Fit and drill first. You may find that you need to do some minor trimming which you wouldn't want to have to do on a finished piece and also doing it first avoids the potential of marring the coating if a drill bit walks or slips. If you use a #30 bit rather than 1/8" you probably won't need to clean the coating from the drilled holes but if you do a twist with a hand reamer makes short work of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota
Jeff
To add just a bit of detail if you haven't seen it elsewhere ...
Do any minor trimming / fitting of the panel.
Mark for holes.
Center punch holes if you don't want the bit to wander.
Clamp panel to frame.
Drill hole #1 through panel and frame. Insert cleco.
Drill hole #n (other end) through panel and frame. Insert cleco.
Drill all the holes in between and remove panel.
Clean up holes as needed per Jeff ... if you're lazy like me, you grab a somewhat sharp 1/2" bit because you never got around to getting a hand reamer.
A few spots will have frame welds underneath the panel so the panel doesn't lie flat on the frame. Drill and cleco first and last holes. Hit the panel with a rubber hammer right over the weld. You now have a conformal fit of panel over top of weld. Drill remaining holes and carry on.
Thanks John, that's great advice. I think I saw a thread on the rubber mallet trick, but assumed I would understand once that problem arose. You clarified that for me.
Bit of a silly question here, but when we talk about "Minor trimming / fitting", how will I know? Do I look at how the panels fit before I first remove the body after delivery and trim away things that touch the body? Someone mentioned a sharpie's width away from the body for bulb seal pieces (width of actual standard marker body, length of felt tip, what are we talking about here?). Jeff mentioned he rarely has to trim any panels on a MK4 except maybe the end of the trunk floor? I don't want to miss an easy step before I start removing everything. I will be taking multiple pictures as I go
In retrospect I didn't think it was vital to do that marking relative to body in the very beginning. My body went on and off multiple times when I got to that point in the build, and on one of those fits I marked to trim any pieces (like trunk sides and back of trunk) as needed for bulb seal. Those parts that contact the body can be trimmed after install.
After you remove the body, the panels are held in by self-tappers for shipping. Usually the panel fit of these is pretty good, but you may want to shift some slightly, or bang a weld with a rubber mallet, or trim a piece if hangs over just a bit. But these are typically pretty small adjustments, and keep in mind that a lot of stuff faces the road, gets painted with bedliner / under coater, or gets covered with sound mat, trunk liner, or carpet. You'll know what bugs you and what doesn't when you see it. (And no one else will see it regardless.)
And when you get the parts back from powder coating, just remember they all fit well when you sent them out. So if anything is way off, it means you just don't have something lined up right. Don't trim anything. Ask me how I know :)
Great news, my MK4 arrived yesterday! The delivery went smoothly, even though it was -7 and snowing. Driver wasn't too impressed with the ND roads in these conditions, but he made my delivery risking his own off time for Christmas. Big thanks to Stewart Transportation.
I also sent a big check to Mike Forte to get my engine in the works. Lots going on right now. I took the body off and started documenting the panels and their locations. The body was a little rough from the mold. Ok, it was a lot rough. I'm already a bit worried about how to do the sanding and filling of the seams, but I have time to figure that out. Looking at attachments for my die grinder that will help in the rough sanding.
One issue I noticed during inventory is I'm missing the Certificate of Origin and Nameplate. I'm not sure why these weren't included but they are marked 0 on the sheet, so FFR knew they weren't included?
The CO and plate will be sent later, generally with the final POL shipment. RE:the mold parting lines (not seams)...are you doing the bodywork and paint? If no just leave them alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota
Jeff
I was planning to do the bodywork just to get the hood, doors, trunk rollbar holes done. I'm definitely not doing the paint. I don't know who to trust after the really high paint quotes I received earlier from local shops. If someone is willing to do the body work and paint all in one go that would be great. I'm doing a custom roll bar so at least one hole has to be filled in and two more cut where I need them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner
Jeff, Do I gather from your previous posts that you do bodywork and painting yourself? I agree with your statements about having a shop that has "done a few" cobras before so I'm not the guinea pig.
Great news! My delivery driver from Stewart did an excellent job. It was definitely the best way to get the car.
Lovely shop space, I have garage envy. I look forward to seeing how it goes. Which engine did you order from Forte?
I’m having him do a SBF 363, mild cam, edelbrock pro Flo 4, TKX with 0.81 high. It’s supposed to be around 440 fwhp. Rear end is a 3.31 with Eaton Detroit truetrac
Quick questions:
I see in other build threads black powder coated aluminum panels with what looks like black rivits. Are they spray painting rivits? Sharpie? Mine's going to look like hundreds of raw steel rivits along black powder coated panels. What is the solution here?
I understand there are several aluminum panels that will be covered in sound dampening material, carpet etc on one side and lizard skin or some other material that faces the road on the other. Is it worth sending everything to powdercoat since I don't know exactly which will still be visible?
Thanks
I'm continuing to think up questions watching other build threads and I'm trying to avoid mistakes. Let's have a quick jump into the chassis grease discussion. Somewhere there are apparently poly bushings that require special poly safe grease that costs $85 per tube and is on back order until January, and likely needs a dedicated grease gun to avoid mixing/contamination. (all these things are already ordered and in the works). So....Which bushings are poly? It says nothing about greasing these in the manual but many forum builds say grease the bushings when you assemble which seems like good advice. I don't want to use the wrong grease on a bushing that is a pain to remove later. Thanks
Many people powder coat the entire aluminum set of panels. Some do only some and some do none. For me I powder coated the engine compartment and some of the side panels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota
Rivets can be ordered that are already black.
Here: http://https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-abs6266lurr2
That's going to be a lot for a car like this! Good gear selection. Hope you enjoy it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota
Search "chassis grease poly bushings site:thefactoryfiveforum.com" and you'll find some background. You should be able to see in the manual each spot which has poly bushings. What I got out of this and other reading was that a synthetic, silicone-based grease was going to be fully compatible with the poly bushings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota
But you'll find that many who know this don't actually go to the trouble of having a separate grease gun filled with the stuff. The thinking here is that the most important thing is to use grease, period, and any incompatibility will have only minor impact. Many who are using the red grease are likely thinking there's it's fully compatible because it's 'synthetic', which doesn't always mean is entirely a silicone-based grease.
I decided I wasn't going to use the super heavy duty, tacky stuff, with the thinking that I wasn't going to be driving in wet conditions much, and I was going to be greasing the chassis every fall, not once every 5 years. I didn't see the need for high impact / load resistance either, since the purpose of the poly is to absorb such impacts and spread out high point loads. So one grease gun, multi-purpose chassis grease on all the zerk fittings for me. I'm not saying that's the right answer, just my own thought process.
Update:
Here's my decision on the grease conundrum: I still have a large tube of Prothane Super Grease on backorder from Jegs.com, now allegedly shipping on 2/11/25. Problem is, I need to assemble my front lower control arms now and they should be lubed during assembly. I therefore ordered 3-packs of prothane super grease in small tubes to allow me to continue my build. They are available on Amazon.com.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P8SAU2...fed_asin_title
I ordered four 3-packs to get me through assembly of the bushings. I'll go back and grease them fully when the polyurethane bushing safe super grease arrives. There is much debate on whether using standard chassis grease matters at all, but it's a small price to add to the total project.
I took almost all the aluminum panels to get powder coated black. I did basically every panel except for some of the very small pieces as I don't know where they go yet. The lead time was quick, so I can get those down to powder coat if I need to quickly. The guy was totally baffled on the potential cost of this so he quoted me $1000 for all of it, knowing it could be more or less. I'll update here what it turned out to be. Also, I pre-drilled the F-panels but none of the others because I needed to get the F-panels on right away. I made sure I drilled at least one hole in a flange somewhere on every panel to make it easy for the powder coat guy to hang them. May save me some money because I saved him time. I just drilled in the obvious flanges on most of the panels.
Black rivits ordered as well. I should have thought of this a while back, but they will arrive next week. I noticed the "Grip range" was wider for these rivits so maybe they are more forgiving than the ones that came from FFR. Hope they work out. I bought a piece of thin square tube stock steel to practice on with my unused aluminum panels (f-panels I traded for the wide F panels from FFmetals).
Mike Forte called me both right around Christmas about shipping my IRS, brakes, front sway bar, and CV axles. I should get a tracking number early this week. That will be just in time for my progress. He should also be starting on my engine/transmission and he projects 2-3 months for that. Lots going on, but no actual progress until I get some of these parts back. More to come!
Update:
I received my rear IRS and wilwood brakes with black calipers from Forte. Still waiting on front sway bar and triple reservoir. I received my black rivets and prothane grease samples (which is important because my tube is now back ordered until mid Feb!) Half my aluminum panels have been powder coated black and are finished. The rest will be done in another week or two. Also, my nametag and Certificate or Origin came in the mail. Just missing a 30" 4AN hose and my list is complete.
I began assembling my front lower control arms and ran into the similar problems. My rear bracket was too large for one washer but too tight for two. I ended up buying a thinner washer to add to one side. It's not as wide in diameter as the bushing but I don't think it will matter. I tried bolting it together with just one washer but it was clearly bending the tabs in. I felt more comfortable adding the thinner washer. I'm going to start more assembly tomorrow and I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere.
Fuel system questions:
I have the Pro-M fuel hanger with 3/8" in and out lines, and bought a Wilbro 255 LPH in tank fuel pump that I will assemble tomorrow. I'm going to run a 363 stroker. Should I have a fuel regulator? Does anyone have a strong recommendation on a fuel filter?
You will need a fuel pressure regulator. LOADS of options. I have had extremely good luck with Aeromotive products. Not the cheapest but seems to be reliable for me. Since you are running a in-tank pump you can install a 10 micron filter somewhere in line. Most mount it near the fuel tank someplace. You can use the same can and make a charcoal filter for the fuel breather tube as well. Someone on the forum used an amazon fuel filter (Aeromotive knock off) and pulled the screen out and made a charcoal canister out of it. Some use PVC pipes/fittings. 440hp is more than I would trust a stock fuel filter to flow but the 255lph will be fine.
I saw you're planning on running a Pro Flo, nice system that you'll be happy with. All EFI systems require consistent fuel pressure, the ECU can only control the injectors by opening them for a fixed amount of time in ms. With known injectors and fuel pressure the ECU can calculate the flow in lbs/hr from the open time it is commanding. If the pressure varies so does the flow rate into the engine which is very bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota
Definitely need a regulator, and it installs in the return side of the system. Do not install it in the supply side.
This is the filter I'm running, not cheap but very nice. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-162-554
TBH, if I had it to do again I would probably use a 10 micron canister filter as it's easier to service. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-12317
Thanks for the info! I’m going to get that ordered today.
I’m at the shop right now and I just took some pictures of the washers I used for a little extra spacer on the rear mount of the front lower control arm. I assume the four washers that were included in the kit were just incase I needed all four here and not for the upper control arm.
Attachment 208908Attachment 208909Attachment 208910
Just finished my upper and lower control arms. I decided to take an angle grinder to the rear turnbuckle bolts and a hacksaw to the aluminum turnbuckle to give me another 3/8” of adjustment room. Then I aligned them using the zerk to zerk measurements the I believe Jeff K lays out, 9.75” front and 8.5” rear. Apologies if that is someone else’s idea. Also completed my first set of riveted panels using the deeper F panels from FFMetal.com. Things are coming together!
Now I’m looking to see if the 300 or 400# springs go in front or back? I think the heavier springs go up front because of the engine weight if I’m not wrong. I’ll have to dig. I ordered the kit with touring shocks.
Heavier springs to the front.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota
What is the recommended way to run the fuel pressure regulator on the Pro flo 4 for my SBF build? I understand the regulator goes on the return side. Many of the regulators have multiple high pressure ports and one return port on the bottom. These must be used for "dead end" fuel systems where the sending fuel line goes through the regulator to the fuel rails and the return fuel going back to the tank from the bottom of the regulator.
For the "return style" which is what everyone seems to recommend, I would plumb the sending fuel line to the fuel rails, then out the fuel rails to the regulator, then bottom of the regulator return to the fuel tank. I would then simply plug the other holes in the regulator. Does this sound correct?
Also, I assume I have two fuel rails on the pro flo 4. Are these hooked up in series or parallel with Y attachments?
Trying to order all these expensive fittings in the least amount of orders as possible. Appreciate it!
Are the fuel rails hooked up in series or parallel?
The most accurate way is to run the fuel rails in series, in one, loop to the second, and out to the regulator. This guarantees constant pressure on the injectors.
You will see pressure on the inlet of the regulator, usually around 43 PSI, and atmospheric on the outlet to the tank.
Update:
Wow drilling those spindles out is a little terrifying. I ended up buying a 5/8" reamer and it's pretty easy with that. I can feel the hole direction really well. Cutting the ears off was more challenging but lots of machine lube and I got the job done.
I bolted all the hats to the wilwood rotors. It didn't help that this step was right after a 250 ft/lbs torque on the front wheel hubs. I strongly recommend you take a random bolt, grip it in the vice, get the appropriate socket for that bolt and test your inch pound torque wrench to see how the "click" feels. I apparently missed it and twisted the first one right off. I had the red locktite on and everything but was able to get it drilled out. No problem, but I had to order another set of 12 bolts which was $75. If anyone needs a few wilwood rotor bolts and washers I have extra.
Just waiting on the 0.032 SS wire to safety wire the bolts together. I'm sure this step is overkill but it looked kinda fun so I'm doing it. Maybe one day my son will take off the rotors and say what the heck is this? He'll look it up and understand the little extras I tried to add to the cobra. My wife bought me two shop stools so I'm not kneeling all over on the concrete. More things to assemble but that's going to help a lot.
I finally received my correct Walbro fuel pump. I have not received the rubber sleeve yet so I have to wait for the install in the Pro-M hanger. The positive and negative wires riveted to the Pro-M hanger have female quick connects, but only one fits the tabs on the fuel pump. The fuel pump came with a pigtail that locks in place, but I would need to splice the wires. I think that's the rout I'll go. The instructions on the Pro-M hanger are a bit sparse, so I think I just press fit the fuel filter pad on the bottom of the pump but it seems like there should be a more secure connection.
I received my Steel 3/8" fuel line in the mail as well as a large straightener. That thing is beefy. Probably a tool I'll try unload on the forum to recoup some cost and save another poor soul from purchasing new for over $200 just to be used twice. Next step is reaming out the holes in the rear diff pumpkin to 5/8" and installing it with all the rear control arms, shocks, spindles, and brakes. I'm trying to get some parallel processes going on so I can keep working when I run into a snag in one direction.
Finally, I talked to Mike Forte about a hydroboost system for my brakes. He wants me to send him my pedal box and top hanger to modify so that's being packaged up to send. That should come up quick so I hope the turn around is reasonable. Things are moving and that's always a good thing.
The “per use” cost of some of these tools is difficult to justify. Solution: I strongly recommend taking on another build so that you can cut that per use cost in half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota
I don’t want to give my wife any more reasons to murder me, thanks. ��Quote:
Originally Posted by TTimmy
I was impressed with the 5/8” reamer I bought for the rear IRS and Spindle work. I’m thinking about putting some of these one use tools together as a roadster package and selling them to the next new builder. I recoup some of my cost and they get once used expensive tools for cheap. Maybe a gentlemen’s agreement to sell them as a package for 1/2 cost, as long as they sell it for 1/2 cost as a package to the next guy.
Update:
I finished the front brakes, sans plumbing, and the installed the rear IRS. It went pretty smooth but I have a gap between my bushing and the frame on the front two arms of the pumpkin. The bolts are torqued and the inner metal sleeve is snug, it’s just the bushings. Does this look right?
Attachment 209358Attachment 209359
Overall progress was made yesterday even though we struggled with the order of the steps. I’m wishing the instructions included better notes about “if installing a sway bar attach this bracket here” type of thing.
The sway bar instructions front and back are total crap. I’m not sure what the bolts are for or in what order they are installed. Washers? No washers? Who knows? I also installed my rear control arms and toe arms before I figured out the rear sway bar bracket goes over those bolts. They were a little hard to put in so I’m going to struggle there a bit. The spacers were too big so I’ve been sanding them by hand. I don’t have my belt grinder at my shop yet but that just moved up to priority one.
Some of the hardware instructions for the toe arms and lower control arm in the rear were murky so I hope I chose the right nuts. The bolts are correct. I can see why the forum knowledge is critical for double checking things. I’ll post pics below.
I I have a spreadsheet that details everything I've purchased for my build, mostly for record keeping but also tracks costs. I have a second spreadsheet that's trimmed down and has the "corrected" costs, I show this one to my wife:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Highplainsdakota
Guys,
If someone out there has the knowledge, am I good proceeding with the bushing gap on the front connection points of the rear IRS? I posted some pictures about 5 posts ago. The inner metal sleeve is contacting the metal on both sides and I’m appropriately torqued. There’s just some space between the bushing and the frame. Shouldn’t be an issue in my mind, but it is strange.
Update:
I installed the front and rear sway bars last night, but they are not hooked up yet. Learned some lessons along the way that I will write down as tips for the next guy below. I was told the rear sway bar was hard or impossible to install after the car is complete and now I know why. I still missed the boat and assembled and torqued the rear toe arm and lower control arm before I figured out where the bracket went. Had to remove those and reinstall which was frustrating but not too bad. I figured out the 0.25" longer 5/8 bolt needed for the toe arm. The problem was I used the mechanical lock nut, and having removed it I wasn't sure it could be re-used. I decided to use the other two mechanical lock nuts in the kit. Not sure where those are supposed to go yet. I found 5/8" x 11 mechanical lock nuts at NAPA for those who need to know! They are a little longer but should work.
Front brakes were installed last week and it's interesting that the brake pads just kind of float in the calipers. It seems like they would rub on the rotor randomly. Is that the way they are supposed to be? Maybe after some use they settle in and move with the calipers. I purchased some of those solder / heat shrink butt connectors and I believe they are fuel rated so I'll use them on the in tank fuel pump connections. I installed the pump with the sleeve in the Pro-M hanger and that went well. I might shave off some of the tube that returns the fuel on the pro M hanger so I don't have to cut so big of an opening in the gas tank. That brings up another issue. I'm not coming up with ideas on how to keep metal shavings out of the tank when I grind the opening for the pro M hanger. I think I'll just wash it out with water and air dry it. I should be able to see any significant residual water before I install the tank.
Tips for the next guy:
1: The black metal brackets Must go on the rear of the frame for the rear sway bar before installation of the rear toe arm and lower control arm. Use the 2.5" 5/8 x 11 bolt that comes with the sway bar and discard the 2.25" bolt in the kit.
2: Once the bracket (and therefore the toe arm and lower control arms are installed), move on to the bushing brackets and sway bar itself before getting into the spindles and upper control arms (Rear sway bar). I had to jack up my rear spindles to get them clear of the sway bar when installing it.
3: Lube the sway bar bushings with prothane grease now, at installation. the fit is tight and there's no grease zerk.
4: The hex head bolts go front to back through the brass colored bracket on the front sway bar. I placed them up from the bottom through the bracket on the rear sway bar. This looks better and prevents longer bolts hanging down. I'm not sure it would matter on the rear and may improve access to the toe arm bolt the other way but this is how I did it. Use the yellow washers next to the hex bolt head and the silver washers on the back before the lock nut. If you don't, the larger silver washers will impinge and probably mess up the torque specs.
5: I happen to have a set of hex sockets. They are necessary to torque these bolts down appropriately. There is no room for a socket on the rear sway bar nuts (The way I did it). You might buy these in advance.
6: You must torque the rear toe arm bolt to 100 ft/lbs before installation of the rear bushing bracket install. There is no room for a socket once the sway bar is installed because of the bolts (Again, the way I did it.)
Pictures to follow! Progress is being made.
I see you never got confirmation to the question in your post 72 and 77. I have the older IRS version, but based on what I can see here's what I think. If that silver in the gap is actually the inner sleeve showing, that suggests to me that although the fastener is tightened, that sleeve can still slide back and forth inside the bushing, and the two parts can move relative to each other along the fastener axis. Can you move that arm toward and away from the pumpkin? That doesn't seem right, and might require cutting the inner sleeve to eliminate the gap. I'm speculating; you should be sure of everything before you cut anything.
With stuff like this I'd shoot tech@factoryfive.com (Dan Golub) a note, or put a quick post with the question in the main forum. That'll put you on solid ground. Sorry I can't be more definitive on this one.
Good progress! Hope it's keeping you busy in the middle of a ND wimpy winter :)
Edit:
Hey, how about that!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...e-where-bolted
Go down to Mike Everson's input. You can take his word to the bank. Happy building!
Thank you!!
That post you attached is exactly what I experienced. Since the rear of the IRS is snug to the frame, the only thing that would close the gap is a spacer over the inner sleeve, which I imagine would do nothing, good or bad.
I really appreciate the reply as I don’t have enough automotive knowledge to know how important/potentially disastrous some of these discrepancies are. Learning about other people’s builds and discussing these issues is nearly as fun as the build itself at times!
Here are some of the pictures of the sway bar mounts that I mentioned in a previous post:
Front sway bar mounts:
Attachment 209849Attachment 209850Attachment 209851