These designs are missing the spirit?

I don't profess to know Factory Five's design inspirations, but the Spyder GT is much closer in body shape to the GTO Spyder than it is to the Daytona Spyder. Interestingly, there was a kit in the early 90s that turned a Datsun Z car into a GTO Spyder. I had a Z car at the time that kit came out, and *almost* pulled the trigger on it. :)

Also, there were indeed real factory Daytona Spyders, though they are very rare (only 122 were built). The rest are the conversions you spoke about. More info: http://www.supercars.net/cars/3772.html

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Originally Posted by vozproto

Both the type '65 and '65 GT spyder were built with the 1964/65 ****** Daytona coupe in mind.
Although there was never an OEM daytona convertible, you can imagine its a matter of engineering to go from coupe to spyder.

Edit: Wow... didn't know the manufacturer of the daytona and cobra were bad words around here. lol

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Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

That great rumble sound is one of the strongest things drawing me towards the 818. Does anyone know if there is a significant difference between the sound from a 2.0 liter to a 2.5 liter subaru motor? I've heard quite a few STI's with aftermarket exhausts that really sound great, but I was curious if the WRX sounds just as deep since it has a smaller displacement (at least the 2.0 model years).

Also, on the topic of this thread, I think an exotic elise like body would really be improved by the boxxer rumble. The swarming bees sound of an inline has been a turn off for me with the elise or atom.

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I've had both in my car with the same exact exhaust. They are very very similar, basically the 2.5 just seems louder, especially at highway speeds lol. It is a tiny bit deeper but if you just put an exhaust with a bigger muffler on the 2.0 and perhaps a big resonator, the resulting 'volume' in the exhaust chambers will drop the tone down a bit and make a 2.0 sound nearly exactly like a 2.5 with less resonance in terms of tone. Essentially, if I had bought a nicer exhaust with a larger canister on my 2.0, it would have potentially sounded deeper and beefier (but more quiet overall) than my 2.5 on my 3'' exhaust and on 4''x9''x14'' muffler canister which is quite small compared to a Cobb or a Borla.

Here's perhaps the only 100% side by side comparison video out there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqrEr8zVqyA

There still isn't a video of anyone comparing a 2.5 and a 2.0 with the exact same exhaust on both cars on the same video camera. This video has a 06 wagon with a much nicer exhaust with a few resonators and mid-pipe glasspacks in it, the 02 wrx sedan just has a 3'' 'ebay' turboback exhaust, possibly catless and only one small resonator. You can tell a difference between them here, the 02 just sounds a bit more open, the 06 a bit more smooth but the overall 'depth' of the noises sound pretty close.

After I got my engine swapped, the only comments I got from my buds about the difference in sound is "wait, I thought you said you got a bigger engine"

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Originally Posted by apurchase

Point number two:
From the forums it looks as a lot of the contributors are Subie fans, as I am, and I would think a lot of the customers are of the "Fast and Furious" generation (I mean the first movie, the one that was actually about real cars, cars many young guys dreamed of owning),

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I assume that you are not talking about the 1955 movie version...

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Originally Posted by BrandonDrums

I've had both in my car with the same exact exhaust. They are very very similar, basically the 2.5 just seems louder, especially at highway speeds lol. It is a tiny bit deeper but if you just put an exhaust with a bigger muffler on the 2.0 and perhaps a big resonator, the resulting 'volume' in the exhaust chambers will drop the tone down a bit and make a 2.0 sound nearly exactly like a 2.5 with less resonance in terms of tone. Essentially, if I had bought a nicer exhaust with a larger canister on my 2.0, it would have potentially sounded deeper and beefier (but more quiet overall) than my 2.5 on my 3'' exhaust and on 4''x9''x14'' muffler canister which is quite small compared to a Cobb or a Borla.

Here's perhaps the only 100% side by side comparison video out there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqrEr8zVqyA

There still isn't a video of anyone comparing a 2.5 and a 2.0 with the exact same exhaust on both cars on the same video camera. This video has a 06 wagon with a much nicer exhaust with a few resonators and mid-pipe glasspacks in it, the 02 wrx sedan just has a 3'' 'ebay' turboback exhaust, possibly catless and only one small resonator. You can tell a difference between them here, the 02 just sounds a bit more open, the 06 a bit more smooth but the overall 'depth' of the noises sound pretty close.

After I got my engine swapped, the only comments I got from my buds about the difference in sound is "wait, I thought you said you got a bigger engine"

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Thanks for the info Brandon. I would definitely be interested in a deeper sound with less resonance and a bit of volume, although not enough to attract the cops all the time.

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Originally Posted by Niburu

OMFG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LjYl7VfFKE
goto the 30 second mark and listen
thats what I want my 818 to sound like

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I want to be able to fit those tires ;)

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Originally Posted by DrieStone

That's hard to do. I was a tuner back in the day ('95 Eclipse GSX with a big 16G, etc, etc.) I started a local Eclipse car club (that still lives even though I haven't been apart of it for well over a decade) I now own a WRX daily driver (which has not been touched even though I've been tempted).

One of my friends said something that I took to heart, when a friend of ours was telling us a story how he destroyed a Ferrari in a light to light race. He turned to him and said, "yes but at that next light you were still driving a Eclipse and he was driving a Ferrari". I spent easily $50k on my GSX when I had it. I have no doubt I would have enjoyed a $50k car more than my Eclipse (even though my Eclipse was faster). I was a tuner because of necessity, because we made it better because it was all we had.

So I'm the generation of the Tuner, but I have no interest in a car that looks like that. I've grown up and my car is going to reflect that. Why would I want a tuned Civic when I could have an Exige or a Stratos?

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Very well said. I was just young enough to miss most of the tuner market, but it was a big part of my youth. I had every issue of Sport Compact car from 1999 until very close to their demise, and I got through college dreaming of tuned Civics, CRXs, and Eclipses. But by the time I finally graduated from Penn State in 03, the performance cars were finally catching on. WRXs, SRT4s, Mazdaspeeds, Evos, RX-8s, 350Zs...the tuner market was getting some actual support in the US at the dealership.

At which point, the question became: buy a $5K car and drop $20K tuning it to end up with a fast but compromised car, or just go out and buy something with performance that was actually comfortable enough to drive every day. I tried it both ways, and quickly realized that I'd rather have the one that wasn't a rat trap, and didn't look like one. There were too many idiots driving around with half-built cars with elaborate body kits slapped on and painted primer gray. When was that ever a good idea?

"Fast and the Furious" wasn't ever real, especially not in the first movie. That was probably the most unrealistic movie of the bunch. Remember when Paul Walker is drag racing Vin Diesel at the beginning and he blows up his engine which causes his passenger floor pan to fall out? How does that happen? But terrible as they are, I love those movies and I have them all on my DVD shelf.

I'm 30 now, and though tuner cars were my first love, there are few of us out there who ever marry our high school sweethearts. Most of the time, that's a good thing. Same goes for cars.

you guys are new to ffr! that old guy tried to end all the fun!

[QUOTE=vozproto;43358]*sniff sniff, I smells a troll* (but I will answer respectfully)"




LOL

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Originally Posted by carbon fiber

you guys are new to ffr! that old guy tried to end all the fun!

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this is where you'd be wrong

talking about the guy who did that ol series 1!lol can't/won't say his name here.

I hope this car doesn't turn into anything remotely 'tuner' looking. I won't be building one unless it can sit next to my 355 and not look ridiiculous.

Also, whenever I hear a wrx with a loud exhaust, the first thing I think is that it's not firing on all cylinders. After hearing a couple, I realized that's just how they sound. I like them and had an imprezza wagon as a dd (great car), but the exhaust note is not a strong point imo.

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Originally Posted by bobzdar

I hope this car doesn't turn into anything remotely 'tuner' looking. I won't be building one unless it can sit next to my 355 and not look ridiiculous.

Also, whenever I hear a wrx with a loud exhaust, the first thing I think is that it's not firing on all cylinders. After hearing a couple, I realized that's just how they sound. I like them and had an imprezza wagon as a dd (great car), but the exhaust note is not a strong point imo.

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If you don't like the "boxer rumble," you can just throw on a set of equal length headers. Then it'll just sound like a loud Honda.

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Originally Posted by projectrally

If you don't like the "boxer rumble," you can just throw on a set of equal length headers. Then it'll just sound like a loud Honda.

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I'm not sure that's an improvement...Whichever makes more power I suppose.

http://youtu.be/riOz7TxeNZQ

Here's an audio sample of both header styles..

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Originally Posted by DrieStone

I think the GTM is great for what it is, but I have no interest in owning/building one. Others have already suggested that the GTM was an evolution of at least one other vehicle. Truth be told, FFR's "design language" hasn't been established. This is the first truly unique vehicle.



That's hard to do. I was a tuner back in the day ('95 Eclipse GSX with a big 16G, etc, etc.) I started a local Eclipse car club (that still lives even though I haven't been apart of it for well over a decade) I now own a WRX daily driver (which has not been touched even though I've been tempted).

One of my friends said something that I took to heart, when a friend of ours was telling us a story how he destroyed a Ferrari in a light to light race. He turned to him and said, "yes but at that next light you were still driving a Eclipse and he was driving a Ferrari". I spent easily $50k on my GSX when I had it. I have no doubt I would have enjoyed a $50k car more than my Eclipse (even though my Eclipse was faster). I was a tuner because of necessity, because we made it better because it was all we had.

So I'm the generation of the Tuner, but I have no interest in a car that looks like that. I've grown up and my car is going to reflect that. Why would I want a tuned Civic when I could have an Exige or a Stratos?

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I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts but kind of chuckled when I read that you spent 50k on DSM mods.

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Originally Posted by projectrally

http://youtu.be/riOz7TxeNZQ

Here's an audio sample of both header styles..

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They both sound horrible, but it's probably more to do with the trumpet exhaust than the header type. Why in the world would you put a 3.5" tailpipe on what appears to be a 2.25" exhaust system? Having larger pipe farther away from the engine is completely pointless performance wise...You can neck down the exhaust with no performance decrease as the exhaust cools the farther downstream it gets, and at the tailpipe you could have a 1.75" tip without any performance penalty and without it sounding horribly blatty like that. I can't figure out why people put those fart cans on their cars.

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Originally Posted by bobzdar

They both sound horrible, but it's probably more to do with the trumpet exhaust than the header type. Why in the world would you put a 3.5" tailpipe on what appears to be a 2.25" exhaust system? Having larger pipe farther away from the engine is completely pointless performance wise...You can neck down the exhaust with no performance decrease as the exhaust cools the farther downstream it gets, and at the tailpipe you could have a 1.75" tip without any performance penalty and without it sounding horribly blatty like that. I can't figure out why people put those fart cans on their cars.

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Because it's COOL, Bob! LOL

Just kidding. I'm totally with you. To me, that sound is "rough and tumble." Perfectly suitable for a WRX, but not for what I envision the 818 to be. I'd prefer a sound more like a highly tuned race engine, Ferrari, or Lamborghini.

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Originally Posted by Xusia

I'd prefer a sound more like a highly tuned race engine, Ferrari, or Lamborghini.

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Those cars sound like that because they have flat crankshafts and high CRs. The EJ has neither. The as yet unsupported EZ H-6 would have a note closer to what you're after, but it's going to sound closer to a GT3 RS (if you do it right!) than anything italian.

I realize I'm not going to get the exact sounds I want from that engine. I was really stating more what I would prefer. :)

As would the new FA20 engine from the yet-to-be-released BRZ. That engine features direct and port injection, a 12.5:1 compression ratio and equal length headers. It revs to 7400, but the power apparently stops coming around 6800 - 7K. That engine, though a boxer, is entirely new. 200hp and 151 ft/lbs. Comes with equal length headers from the factory, and sounds great for a 4cyl.
http://youtu.be/bk4Ter7dutk