Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build: 5,000 Mile Report

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by freds

Hi Paul. Please list the dimensions of the cut-out you made to clear the radiator and A/C hose connections. I'd like to piggy back on the work you did lifting the cowl on and off.
Thanks, fred

---

I thought about listing the dimensions in my original post, but decided not to. Since you ask, I'll describe what I did with one huge caveat. Please check very carefully that these dimensions are correct for your build. I've been working on getting the nose placed for a couple weeks now (off and on, not continuously...) and finally have it where I want it. But to be honest it's been a bit of a struggle. Capped off by once I thought I had it where I wanted it, I added the gas structs and that pushed it forward 1/4-inch or so when closed compared to not having the struts installed. I mentioned this before. So ended up adjusting the hinges again and it's as good as it's going to get. The left (driver) side pivot bolt is at the end of it's adjustment range. The right (passenger side) isn't quite. I also found the wheel lips are asymmetrical side-to-side. With everything else centered, the right (passenger side) overhangs more than the other side. Not a lot and it won't be noticeable when done and everything else is pretty good. But just one example of how you have to balance the fit everywhere and find what works best for you.

So having said that, my cuts on the underside of the cowl are 2-inches in from the outside edge of the hinge brackets. Right up to the metal base on both sides. Even cut into it slightly on the left side. Then another 1-1/8 inches in from the inside of the base of the hinge brackets to clear the A/C condenser. Plus the angle on on the right side, per my picture, to clear the hose connection on the condenser. That angle also cut slightly into the base of the hinge bracket. You'll also need to cut the aluminum panels on each side of the radiator as I showed previously. Once that's all done, also be careful about the placement of the connections for the gas struts. Move the outside of the frame rail as I showed. Also watch the length. With the nose all the up as far as it would go (e.g. the base of the hinge very close to the chassis sheet metal and radiator) I found the frame location needed to be moved back about 3/4-inch. Otherwise the strut would have been pushing hard against the chassis and the radiator right behind it. I suspect there is a lot of variation in all of this, and what I'm citing is my personal experience. Yours maybe different. So check carefully before cutting or drilling anything. That's my main advice. Good luck.

Greatly appreciate your very valuable description and guidance. I fully realize that I have to essentially do exactly what you have done as no two builds and especially bodies, are identical. But what a great "road map" for me and others.
THANKS
fred

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edwardb

I thought about listing the dimensions in my original post, but decided not to. Since you ask, I'll describe what I did with one huge caveat. Please check very carefully that these dimensions are correct for your build. I've been working on getting the nose placed for a couple weeks now (off and on, not continuously...) and finally have it where I want it. But to be honest it's been a bit of a struggle. Capped off by once I thought I had it where I wanted it, I added the gas structs and that pushed it forward 1/4-inch or so when closed compared to not having the struts installed. I mentioned this before. So ended up adjusting the hinges again and it's as good as it's going to get. The left (driver) side pivot bolt is at the end of it's adjustment range. The right (passenger side) isn't quite. I also found the wheel lips are asymmetrical side-to-side. With everything else centered, the right (passenger side) overhangs more than the other side. Not a lot and it won't be noticeable when done and everything else is pretty good. But just one example of how you have to balance the fit everywhere and find what works best for you.

So having said that, my cuts on the underside of the cowl are 2-inches in from the outside edge of the hinge brackets. Right up to the metal base on both sides. Even cut into it slightly on the left side. Then another 1-1/8 inches in from the inside of the base of the hinge brackets to clear the A/C condenser. Plus the angle on on the right side, per my picture, to clear the hose connection on the condenser. That angle also cut slightly into the base of the hinge bracket. You'll also need to cut the aluminum panels on each side of the radiator as I showed previously. Once that's all done, also be careful about the placement of the connections for the gas struts. Move the outside of the frame rail as I showed. Also watch the length. With the nose all the up as far as it would go (e.g. the base of the hinge very close to the chassis sheet metal and radiator) I found the frame location needed to be moved back about 3/4-inch. Otherwise the strut would have been pushing hard against the chassis and the radiator right behind it. I suspect there is a lot of variation in all of this, and what I'm citing is my personal experience. Yours maybe different. So check carefully before cutting or drilling anything. That's my main advice. Good luck.

---

Been a busy week or two since the last update, but still plugging away when I’ve had time. Still doing body work. Feel like I’m making a career out of it. But starting to see the light at the end maybe. Also lost some time because our main home desktop computer decided to give up. After extensive troubleshooting, have determined the mother board died. Grrr. It’s 5-6-7 years old (don’t remember exactly) so not particularly new. But still a pain. New one on the way and then more time restoring everything back. Thankfully my laptop keeps ticking.

Before the build update, first a couple words about last weekend. I mentioned before about being asked to have my Roadster in the Ford Performance display at the Detroit Autorama. All went as expected and had a really good experience. Ford and their display people were great. Crowds seemed very busy. Had a fun three days talking to lots of people and looking at many of the other 800+ cars at the event. New good buddy from our local club displayed his just finished ERA. Stunning car. He did an amazing job and deservedly won first place in Hand Built Sports. Move out was the usual chaos with a massive line of trailers. But got through it and the Roadster is back home safe and sound. Shared some pics and a brief description with Factory Five and they put together a very generous story about the event. It was on their website and also included in one of their regular email blasts, so I expect most have seen it. But here in case you haven’t: https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...stomer-paul-b/.

The shop that’s painted my last two builds had a booth at the show, so had a nice chat with them. Tried to prime the pump for the upcoming Coupe paint. Hopefully will be ready to talk to them in earnest in a few months. Couple from there made it back to where the Roadster was and did a livestream interview showing their previous work. Hopefully that advertisement is worth something.

The Detroit Autorama is also where they give the Ridler Award, recognized as one of the premier in our hobby. Spent some time checking out the eight finalists one morning before the doors opened. Wasn't surprised this Cadillac was the winner. Simply incredible. Rather then post my pictures, this article gives the back story, details about the build, and a bunch of pictures. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/2019...adillac-wagon/.

Back to reality… Finally have the cowl about where I want it. Front hinges are done and in their final locations. Installed the latches. Pretty straightforward. I switched to 1/4-inch screws vs. the supplied 10-32’s to hold them on. Likely not necessary but decided I wanted a little more beef against the glass on the outside.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1552156163

With the latches in place, getting bumpers installed and pulling the cowl into place really helps to get things lined up. What I found though was a significant variation in the thickness of the cowl as well as the step around the front of the body. The required bumper thickness varied from under 3/8-inch to 9/16-inch. The kit supplied bumpers are just over 3/8-inch. So, McMaster to the rescue again with these https://www.mcmaster.com/9540k22. Determined the eight locations I wanted bumpers (after looking at a number of build examples) and adjusted the bumper thickness at each location using my stationery disk sander. Placed like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1552156172

Then adjusted the catches and I’m extremely pleased with the fit. Have a little bit of work to touch up the gap and round the edge slightly. But other than that, very little body work will be required.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1552156141

Two things remain to finish the cowl. Still need to adjust the gap on the right side between the pontoon and the bottom of the cowl. Will be some minor glass work. Still thinking of the best way to do it. Also need to install locating pins that go between the front of the pontoons and the cowl. The kit supplies some receptacles that are OK. But then some small pins (much smaller than the holes in the receptacles) that are threaded on one end and no mention in the manual how they’re supposed to be installed. Going to do something different with the pins. Still thinking about that too.

Yesterday, decided to start tackling the door installation. Last major piece of the body install. First cut holes in the doors per the instructions. Laid out per the manual, cut with an air saw, then cleaned up a bit with a sanding drum, sandpaper, files, the usual. The holes in the inside of the doors are required for access to finish the installation and in my case will be covered with door cards. The holes in the front of the doors are pretty large and I was hoping to make a little smaller. But they need to be the exact size described for the frames to go in. They just fit when put in at an angle as shown in the manual.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1552156180

I had previously powder coated the frames and did the initial assembly. So they were ready to go. So proceeded to lay out the hinge cutouts on the body. Sort of followed the instructions. But instead of using a long drill to locate the cutouts as described, I used a straight edge on the hinge and a bright light to show the location. Laid out the cut lines per the instructions but cut them a bit undersize so I could adjust them if needed and not get too oversized.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1552156189

Then trial fit the frame and adjusted as needed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1552156197

Then trial fit the door.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1552156205

I’m still not there yet though. Getting close, but I’m out of adjustment on the bottom of the hinge in the body and it’s still not flush. So will need to lengthen the slots on the hinge piece that’s mounted to the body location. There’s a lot of adjustment built into these hinges, so a little surprised I ran out. The body is exactly where the manual shows it’s supposed to be. Both doors fit the openings almost exactly. Really impressed with that. But getting all that lined up with the hinges takes some fiddling obviously. I’ll get it, then tackle the other side.

Couple hints I’ve learned already. The manual shows grinding a slight bevel on the hinge pins so they go in easier. I did, but not enough. Going to go back and grind a little more. Also trial fit the bracket that bolts to the body and holds the door hinges. Where the pivot bushings are. Make sure everything lines up and will go together easily before starting the door installation. It’s not particularly easy to feed the door frame through the body cutouts and then reach behind and put in those hinge pins. If things aren’t lining up and goes together hard, it’s not fun. Especially if you’re by yourself. Ask me how I know that. A little help for this stage would be good if you can get it.

That’s it. Back to the shop. 30 day forecast is showing a definite warming trend, so hopefully out of the woods with winter. We’ll see. Looking forward to being at the Texas show in a few weeks.

Hi Paul,

I understand that you have made an extensive study of the plumbing on the 2018 Coyote. I bought a 2017 crate motor / transmission, but I'm installing a 2018 intake manifold on it. However, the FFR installation instructions that I downloaded don't cover the new engine and some of the fittings are different sizes and in different locations. In the attached photo, is tube #1 a PCV connection? If so, can I just connect that to nipple#3, or do I need to connect it further down the intake? Also, do I just need to cap off both #2 and #3 (if I don't use it for PCV termination)?

Another question is: do you have part numbers and a source for the 5/8" valve cover PCV and 3/4" heater hose connectors? I was surprised to find that these were not included in the Coyote installation kit.

Sorry for hijacking your build thread. I would have put all this into a PM, if I was computer literate enough to figure out how to attach a photo...

Thanks for all your hard work and the rigorous documentation! You are a great resource for the rest of us.

Keith

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by progmgr1

Hi Paul,

I understand that you have made an extensive study of the plumbing on the 2018 Coyote. I bought a 2017 crate motor / transmission, but I'm installing a 2018 intake manifold on it. However, the FFR installation instructions that I downloaded don't cover the new engine and some of the fittings are different sizes and in different locations. In the attached photo, is tube #1 a PCV connection? If so, can I just connect that to nipple#3, or do I need to connect it further down the intake? Also, do I just need to cap off both #2 and #3 (if I don't use it for PCV termination)?

Another question is: do you have part numbers and a source for the 5/8" valve cover PCV and 3/4" heater hose connectors? I was surprised to find that these were not included in the Coyote installation kit.

Sorry for hijacking your build thread. I would have put all this into a PM, if I was computer literate enough to figure out how to attach a photo...

Thanks for all your hard work and the rigorous documentation! You are a great resource for the rest of us.

Keith

---

I described the 2018 manifold connections in post #488. Here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post351623. From your picture, #1 is the vacuum connection for the CMCV function. This replaces the similar connection that was on the back of the Gen 2 Coyote. #2 is the main vacuum port. This connects to a manifold setup in the Mustang (not included with the crate motor) which supplies vacuum to the CMCV plus the power brakes. #3 is the vacuum port for evaporative emissions canister purge valve. The 2018 intake no longer has the purge valve as part of the assembly like before. It’s separate and not included with the crate motor.

The PCV connection is the larger unmarked one angled in the left side of your picture. You can cap the vacuum ports if you're not using them. In the post I linked to, I explained how I used all of the connections in my installation. Sorry I don't have a part number for the PCV connectors. The crate motor came with hoses and connectors, so used those. For the heater connections, those are Gates 28504 connectors. The did come with my Coyote completion kit from Factory Five. But I have purchased them before from Rock Auto. Not my favorite source, but they were the cheapest and got here quickly when I needed them.

Thanks Paul. I appreciate the info about the Gates connectors.

I dug through the big box of parts that came with the crate motor and found the DS PCV hose had found its way inside one of the unused air boxes. Once I had that in hand it was clear where the other end of the hose connected to the stock intake. I'll try to mimic that on the new intake.

I'm still confused about the #1 port though. In order to get the Coyote to fit in the hot rod, we have to remove the CMCV motors and lock out the shafts. The vacuum port that feeds that system is on the back of the manifold. However, on the 2017 manifold there is a second port and hose on the back that is identified as a PCV tube in the FFR documentation. That tube is then connected to a semi-rigid tube that goes through the manifold and ends up in a dangling connector at the front of the engine. The 2018 manifold does not have this port on the back, but has a similar appearing port on the front of the manifold instead (what I called #1). That's why I was guessing that #1 was another PCV port.

All this stuff would be a lot easier for me to understand if there was a shop manual or something similar available on line. Are you aware of such a resource, or do I have to continue to pump Ford Racing for info?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by progmgr1

Thanks Paul. I appreciate the info about the Gates connectors.

I dug through the big box of parts that came with the crate motor and found the DS PCV hose had found its way inside one of the unused air boxes. Once I had that in hand it was clear where the other end of the hose connected to the stock intake. I'll try to mimic that on the new intake.

I'm still confused about the #1 port though. In order to get the Coyote to fit in the hot rod, we have to remove the CMCV motors and lock out the shafts. The vacuum port that feeds that system is on the back of the manifold. However, on the 2017 manifold there is a second port and hose on the back that is identified as a PCV tube in the FFR documentation. That tube is then connected to a semi-rigid tube that goes through the manifold and ends up in a dangling connector at the front of the engine. The 2018 manifold does not have this port on the back, but has a similar appearing port on the front of the manifold instead (what I called #1). That's why I was guessing that #1 was another PCV port.

All this stuff would be a lot easier for me to understand if there was a shop manual or something similar available on line. Are you aware of such a resource, or do I have to continue to pump Ford Racing for info?

---

I'm very familiar with the Gen 2 Coyote having installed one in Roadster #8674. Early Gen 2's had two lines from the CMCV actuators. One was the actual vacuum supply line that attached to a vacuum port on the front of the intake. The other was a vent line that attached to the cold air intake. Later versions of the Gen 2 eliminated this second line and just had the CMCV circuit vent to atmosphere at the rear of the intake. Same as the 2018+ Gen 3's. If Factory Five is calling either of those lines PCV related that's incorrect.

The port that you're calling #1 on the 2018+ intake is the vacuum supply port for the CMCV, as I indicated before. Serves the same purpose as the port that is on the back of the 2015-2017 (Gen 2) intakes. Since you've removed the CMCV setup, which I know is required for the '33 Hot Rod, then you can cap this port and forget about it. Serves no other purpose.

I'm not aware of any shop manuals. I've learned what I've learned by hands-on testing and experimentation and a few diagrams and write-ups I've been able to find with searching. There are several on-line guides for guys doing a 2018 manifold installation. This is one I found useful from Lund Racing. https://support.lundracing.com/hc/en...teup-rev-2.pdf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edwardb

I’m still not there yet though. Getting close, but I’m out of adjustment on the bottom of the hinge in the body and it’s still not flush. So will need to lengthen the slots on the hinge piece that’s mounted to the body location. There’s a lot of adjustment built into these hinges, so a little surprised I ran out. The body is exactly where the manual shows it’s supposed to be. Both doors fit the openings almost exactly. Really impressed with that. But getting all that lined up with the hinges takes some fiddling obviously. I’ll get it, then tackle the other side.

---

You'll probably find that you end up adjusting the frame and then shimming between it and the the skin to match the door up with the body.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edwardb

...The manual shows grinding a slight bevel on the hinge pins so they go in easier. I did, but not enough. Going to go back and grind a little more. Also trial fit the bracket that bolts to the body and holds the door hinges. Where the pivot bushings are. Make sure everything lines up and will go together easily before starting the door installation. It’s not particularly easy to feed the door frame through the body cutouts and then reach behind and put in those hinge pins. If things aren’t lining up and goes together hard, it’s not fun. Especially if you’re by yourself. Ask me how I know that. A little help for this stage would be good if you can get it.

---

Remember what I told ya' that Jesper said about the hinges when we were working on the SEMA Coupe? ;) :D

Good luck,
Jeff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

You'll probably find that you end up adjusting the frame and then shimming between it and the the skin to match the door up with the body.

---

Yup. Received confirmation on the other forum as well that I would need to shim the driver's side. That's what I'm in the process of doing. The passenger side looks like it will be OK without any shims. Not sure how this happens, but now that I understand it a little more, will get through it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

Remember what I told ya' that Jesper said about the hinges when we were working on the SEMA Coupe? ;) :D

---

Sure do. Thought of him often the last couple days. :p

I see that you chose EATON's Bussmann Series Circuit Breakers and the Waytek Circuit Breaker Boots(page 13 of your thread)? Did you choose the same amperage for all or are they different based on the load of each circuit?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdavis500

I see that you chose EATON's Bussmann Series Circuit Breakers and the Waytek Circuit Breaker Boots(page 13 of your thread)? Did you choose the same amperage for all or are they different based on the load of each circuit?

---

Those four breakers and boots are from DelCity.net. I believe your descriptions are correct. They are each sized according to the load.

40 amp: American Autowire Headlight/dim module main power (nice piece, unfortunately no longer available)
20 amp: Fog lights
20 amp: Auxiliary outlet
10 amp: USB outlet

If you are putting in side windows make sure the door handle is located back far enough to leave room for the window bracket.
David W

Paul,

If I could jog your memory here for a bit. When installing rear sway bar, did you find it necessary to cut the female end of the "rod" of the joint that hold the sway bar to the IRS lower control arm?

Thanks,
Danny

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P100DHG

Paul,

If I could jog your memory here for a bit. When installing rear sway bar, did you find it necessary to cut the female end of the "rod" of the joint that hold the sway bar to the IRS lower control arm?

Thanks,
Danny

---

Fortunately, don't have to try to remember in this case. Good thing... I cut them per the instructions. Just took this pic. Sorry about the dust. Been working on the body.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1552698213

For what it is worth I ended up disconnecting my rear bar after only going up 50 lbs on my rear springs...

Been a little while since my last update. Lots going on plus a couple days rebuilding our home computer. Nothing lost and a nice upgrade over what he had before. But hours I’ll never get back. Made some changes on how I do backups, so maybe the next time it will be a little faster. But changing computers is kind of like moving or cleaning out the attic or basement. Lots of old files and programs not being used, so was probably time anyway. This update is from the new computer. Can you tell? Didn't think so.

Meanwhile, back to the build. I now have the doors about 90% done. I’m pretty happy with out they turned out. But I have to admit it was a bit painful and I was more than a little frustrated at times. Just had to walk away a few evenings. Partly because I don’t do this enough that I’m very good at it. So it’s slow and tedious for me. Plus there were just enough surprises to keep me scratching me head. But I think a couple more tweaks and the doors will be done. Then a little more work to finish up the nose and I’m retiring from body work on this build.

I mentioned in my last update that the driver’s side door wasn’t fitting. I checked and double checked how I had everything put together. Everything was per the instructions and really no way to assemble wrong. But it was still way off. An important point to understand, for you Roadster builders out there, is the Coupe doesn’t have the door frames molded into the doors like the Roadster. They’re separate assemblies that are installed through the front ends of the door shells. I’ve shown this before, but in case you missed it, helps to make the rest of this make sense. The frames are bolted to the inside half of the door. I was just about to start cutting metal (something I always advise as the last resort) on the hinges to give more adjustment. But at the last minute realized spacers between the frame and the door shell would move things the direction needed. Then I received comments on both forums that spacers might be necessary. It wasn’t just me… After a little experimenting, confirmed that would definitely help and 3/8-inch was the right amount. So riveted 3/8 x 1 x 24 inch aluminum strips on the door frames. Like this.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1553132158

Put the frame back in the door and it fit almost perfectly. Hinge adjustment range nearly centered. What a relief. Went to the passenger side and it fit almost as well with no spacers. So there’s roughly a 3/8-inch difference side-to-side somewhere. I measured the doors, and that’s not it. The hinges and mounts are the same. Just mirror images. I don’t know. More of that asymmetrical charm I guess. Anyway, with that resolved, spent the last couple days getting everything wrapped up, gapped, etc.

The instructions show four bolts holding the door shells to the frames. I went with six. Partly because that’s what I do. But also because the top two on each end are also for the window mounting brackets. So those are placed accordingly. Using machine bolts here temporarily until I get longer ones because of the 3/8-inch spacers. I have the billet door handles, shown previously, but I'll install those once at final assembly. Meanwhile, using the plastic ones now and just hung in the opening versus hooking and unhooking the cable multiple times at this stage.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1553132178

Cleaned up the cutouts for the hinges. Was hoping to make them a little tighter. But ended up like this. Almost exactly what's shown in the instructions. Imagine that.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1553132171

Made an executive decision with the door strikers. Instead of drilling a hole in the body to clear them completely, I drilled a hole just big enough for the mounting bolt and sandwiched the body. I can’t think of any downside to that. Looks neater IMO. They’re bolted to a very solid bracket on the other side which I bent slightly so it's exactly flush with the body. Gives a little additional rigidity to the body mounting. They also needed the added thickness in order to align properly with the bear claw style latches in the doors. Even had to add an additional spacer on the passenger side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1553132194

For the body mount to the sills, I used 1/4-inch nutserts and flange bolts. Very solid. I also found if I pulled the back corner out just slightly (3/16-1/4 inch), which is kind of where it wanted to go naturally anyway, the bottom of the door matched better to the sill. I guess experience with similar adjustments with the Roadster helped.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1553132184

That’s about it. Here’s the driver’s door pretty much done. As you can see, lines up well. Will require the usual body work but nothing major. The passenger door is very similar. I used 3/16-inch for all the gaps. Looks like a little more than that in this picture because some of the gel coat is removed when breaking the edges. But I’ve found that gap amount works out about right once the filler, primer, paint etc. is added. Plus especially for door gaps, need to have room for how it swings in and out of the opening.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1553132165

Last thing I still have to do is install the check straps. The doors don’t open quite as much as I expected I guess. At this point, the top hinge is hitting the inside of the body cutout. I have it cut all the way to the edge. The only way to get more would be to cut some metal from the hinge, and don’t want to do that. With the check straps in the locations shown in the instructions, this is all the further it would open anyway. So I guess this is how it’s supposed to be.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1553132201

Well that’s it. I’ll be taking a break from the build for a couple weeks. Feel like a need a bit of a vacation from it anyway. Time to face the music and do our taxes. Then next week we’re off to Texas for a family visit and the Texas Cobra Club Spring Meet.

I said no more updates for a couple weeks. But have found a few hours here and there, so managed to knock out a couple things. In the last update, I said the doors were 90% done. I didn’t explain further, but that was a bit of a setback. I thought they were closer to 100%. But I made what in hindsight was a mistake. So passing on a suggestion. In an update several weeks ago, described how by adjusting bumper height and the cowl latches, I was able to get the cowl lined up quite nicely where it meets the main body section. It pulls down a bit tight when closing the latches, but that’s what it takes to line up. You can probably guess where this is going. I mounted, gapped, and finalized the doors with the cowl up. Last thing before leaving the shop last week, pulled the cowl down and latched. Ugh. Driver side door still fine. But on the passenger side the top of the door was now above the cowl. Not a lot. Between 1/16 and 1/8 inch. But still not where I wanted it obviously. Clearly the cowl latch was pulling the main body section down slightly. Adjusting the latch a little would fix the door but then the cowl wouldn’t fit as well. This is what I meant in an earlier comment about body fitting being about sorting multiple things. So a little step back.

Had some time on Saturday, so was able to get it fixed up. Door hinge needed to be moved down a bit, and there was plenty of adjustment. But unfortunately, the hinge was hitting a weld on the frame bracket. So prevented it from having it’s full range. Took everything apart, ground down the weld, and put everything back together. Changing the top of the door location affected the bottom gap, so had to sand a little off there. Also had to adjust the hinge holes a bit, the door frame itself, and also the rear latch. All done now and I’m very happy with the fit. Only slight downside is the gap along the front edge ended up a bit wider than I wanted. It will be OK once painted, but still a little wider than I was shooting for. I’m positive if I would have had the cowl down and latched while fitting the doors and setting the gaps, it would have been right the first time. Suggest others consider this. BTW, I’m pretty confident that slight movement in the body will go away once it’s been in place for awhile and everything finalized, windshield installed, pontoons attached, etc. The fiberglass will take a set. Even now, if I leave it latched all the time, rather than open for days at a time like before, I don’t notice it moving when opened.

Only thing left on the doors was the limit straps. To keep the hinges from hitting the body all the time, decided to put them on now rather than near the end like in the instructions. For my Roadster builds, I’ve always used 10-32 chrome screws rather than rivets per the instructions. More serviceable and looks better IMO. For the Coupe, they show putting the straps on the inner face of the doors with rivets. Only going through the fiberglass, that doesn’t seem very robust to me. Maybe if you put backing washers on the rivets. But rather than doing it that way, and so I didn't have to reach inside for washers and nuts, made up small plates out of .080 aluminum with two 10-32 nutserts on each. Bonded these on the inside, so now have a serviceable connection plus spreads the load onto a wider area of the fiberglass. Not a big deal, but what I preferred. For the other side, drilled and tapped 10-32 threads into the frame and attached with the same style screws. Nothing much to see, but here’s the driver side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1553537274

One other hint about the doors that I noticed. On the top rear corners of the doors, they curve over the top of the body. When opening and closing, that curve needs to clear the body so you’re not messing up the paint. In fact, ideally needs to have enough clearance to add gasket material to seal things up. Without enough clearance, just going to damage or roll up the gasket material. With my doors properly adjusted so the rear tops are even with the body (fit very well there actually) the passenger side was nearly perfect. I could put a piece of “D” gasket material on the bottom of the door and it closed and sealed nicely. On the driver side, however, there was basically zero clearance. I noticed the door was much thicker on the driver side, so first thing used a drum sander on the bottom to make it the same thickness as the other side. That was better but gasket material still rolled up when installed. So sanded the top of the jamb area are to give additional clearance. The glass in both cases is very thick, so that’s not a problem. Obviously this is something you want to look at before body and paint. This pictures shows the area I’m talking about, which BTW I'm still finalizing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1553537281

I have the optional side windows. I’ve seen where a couple of builds have indicated some difficulty installing the plexi panels into the frames with the provided gasket seal and installation tool. Had a little more time, so thought I would take a swing at that. The side window kit came without any instructions. But later Factory Five sent a manual update that included a section on assembling the side windows. Good thing because I didn't have any idea before then. Studied the instructions, looked at the parts, and then sat and stared for a while. (That again.) Came to a couple conclusions, specifically relating to the diagram in the instructions about the orientation of the rubber gasket seal. Maybe this is a stock diagram. I think it has a several errors. First it shows the self-sealing “flap” on the gasket to be on the outside of the car. That didn’t make sense to me, and close examination of the Coupe in Factory Five’s showroom shows this on the inside. The smooth side is on the outside. Just how I think it should be too. Next it shows the “aluminum” (which is actually steel for these frames) in the narrow slot of the gasket, and the “glass” (which is actually plexi in this case) in the wide slot. That didn’t make sense to me either because the steel frame is much thicker than the plexi. Played around a little trying to follow the illustration. The narrow slot is hard to get onto the steel frame and then bends the rubber to where it doesn’t sit flat. The plexi rattles around in the wide slot. So switched the sides and everything fits much better. Finally, played around a bit with the provided installation tool and didn’t have any luck using it for the initial installation as shown. I’ve never used (or even seen) a tool like that, and I just wasn’t getting it. Plus I was a little concerned about the comments in the instructions about not breaking the plexi with the tool, and I didn't want to mark up the powder coat either. Could see how it worked to fold over the self-sealing flap. But not for the initial install. Note this isn't a criticism. I just haven't used a tool like that before. A pro probably does this in their sleep. In my case, decided to see if I could install the windows into the frame without the tool. Was a learning experience, but done. Here’s the process I followed, FWIW:

1. The gasket seal material must be cut to length for each window. There’s only a couple inches extra, so be careful. Additionally, you want the length to be as exact as possible since the ends butt together in the perimeter of the opening. Gaps don’t look good, plus would leak. I established the proper length by first squaring off the end. Then installed the gasket material around the inside of the metal frame using the wide slot in the gasket. I used multiple pieces of tape to pull it into place, especially in the corners, so that the length would be exactly right. Once back around to the starting point, marked the length, and cut again.

2. Removed the cut-to-length gasket seal from the metal frame and installed onto the plexi window using the narrow slot. For both I put the start/end location in the bottom front. Could be anywhere I guess but for OCD’s like me, should be the same on both.

3. Juiced up the gasket seal with WD40 and worked it into the metal frame. Didn’t use the tool. Started at the back vertical side with the plexi panel/gasket assembly on the outside of the frame, and pushed the slot in the seal onto the frame. With the WD40 lubrication and flexibility of the plexi panel, it’s not that hard to work your way around and push the seal through to the inside and into place.

4. Once the gasket seal and plexi panel are inside the metal frame, go around and make sure everything is straight and the seal edges are laying flat.

5. Then use the provided tool to close the flap on the gasket seal. Having plenty of lubrication is important, then use it just like the picture in the instructions show (the angle is important) and it lifts the one side and rolls the flap under. Pretty cool. Once all the way around, I used a small seam roller to make sure the flap was seated.

6. Clean up the WD40 and admire your work. It all fits and works quite well. One hint. Even though a little practice doesn't hurt, check and double check that you're putting the right panel into the right frame. It’s not hard to install them on the wrong side and have a do-over. Not that I would know that. :rolleyes:

Not much of a picture, but mine are ready to install on the build after paint.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1553537268

OK, now that’s really it. Time to clean up, pack up, load the Roadster tomorrow, and we’re off for Texas. Maybe see some of you there.

Looking Fantastic As Usual Sir Edwardb!

Wrench On, Wrench On!

My doors had the same issue with space for weather strip at the back top area. The drivers side was touching with the door aligned. One of the pictures in my #16 body shop post shows it after mods
David W

I noticed that you are waiting to install the remainder of your carpet until after fitting. I would really like to install it all prior to fitting the body so I can finalize seats. I assume that you were anticipating a mess. Being a little further on with fitment, do you think installing carpet prior is doable or would you still wait?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdavis500

I noticed that you are waiting to install the remainder of your carpet until after fitting. I would really like to install it all prior to fitting the body so I can finalize seats. I assume that you were anticipating a mess. Being a little further on with fitment, do you think installing carpet prior is doable or would you still wait?

---

Yes, my normal practice is to wait until near the end of the build to install the carpet. That's what I've done with the Roadsters. Combination of not wanting to get them messy with the build/finish process, but also just not wanting to damage with tools while working, etc. Best time is when the body is off being painted. But the Coupe has a couple challenges that make it even more likely to need to wait. (1) The outside rear cockpit corners can't be installed until after the body is on. Having had the body off/on a couple times with and without those pieces, agreed they need to wait. (2) The hatch area rear wall also can't go in until the body is on. (3) Finally, the sill carpet actually wraps over from the side onto the top and covers the edge of the body in that area. Also not possible until the body is on. Side note: The instructions also say the hatch side aluminum pieces (with the edge that goes under the floor) can't go on until the body is on. I haven't found that to be the case. I've gone ahead and riveted mine in place.

So practically speaking, I don't see how you can install the carpet until later. Unless you only want to put in some of the pieces, and that's not my personal preference. No reason you can't get the seats fitted, mounting holes and bolts figured out, etc. without the carpet. Then take them back out to install the carpet. You'll have to take them out anyway to install that rear cockpit corner I mentioned. That's what I've done. Mine are all ready to drop back into the holes I've drilled and bolt down for the last time at final assembly, and after the carpet is in. Hope that helps. Obviously, this response is my opinion based on what I see in the instructions and experience to date. You may choose to do it differently.

Been awhile since I've posted an update. Slowly getting back into it after being gone a while plus usual life happenings. Planning to post an update later today.

After two plus weeks gone, including to the Texas Cobra Club Spring Meet, family visit, and other stuff to take care of, ended up with several weeks away from the build. Finally, back at it this week with some limited hours. Hasn't been a single good driving day since we got back. Michigan is taking it’s time letting go of winter and now multiple days of rain. Put 600+ miles on the Roadster in Texas, so certainly have had some driving time to start the season. Our local club events start in earnest next weekend, so hoping for the best. Meanwhile, getting back into the build.

My focus is getting the body installation wrapped up. Nothing huge to report but made some progress. Down to just a few items, but always seems to take longer than I expected. First up was the rear wheel splash panels. They fit really well with just some very minor tweaking. Even though I’m not expecting to take the Coupe body off once it’s completed, I still decided to not rivet them in place but rather use nutserts as I’ve done on the Roadster builds. The rear quarters on the Coupe wrap around underneath a lot. Almost horizontal and close to the gas tank. Doesn’t matter so much on the left (drivers) side. But on the right (passenger) side, being able to remove the splash panel provides much better access to the fuel filler, fuel filter, and fuel lines out of the tank. So, I put five 10-32 nutserts in each side. Four are through the hatch sidewall. One is into the frame. The other change I made was to the anchor on the bottom outside corners where they attach to the fiberglass body. Like I’ve done on the Roadsters, I bonded a 10-32 perforated base stud with HSRF on the inside of the body rather than put a bolt through the body. In the process, decided the tabs on the splash guards didn’t accommodate that very well. So cut them off, made my own out of sheet steel, and riveted to the bottom corner. I’ll get the panels powder coated along with a few other remaining parts, put some undercoat on the tire facing side, and they’ll be ready to install.

Right side. Left is the same.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1555791939

Both sides of the bottom corner with the riveted tab and bonded stud. I’ll use a lock nut at final assembly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1555791945

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1555791925

Next up was the other side of the rear wheel wells. Here Factory Five provided some filler pieces in the aluminum panel update set mentioned previously. They’re pretty unusual pieces and it isn’t completely obvious at first how they’re supposed to be oriented and installed. At least I found that to be the case. But figured them out (and marked “left” and “right” and “up” on the pieces so I didn’t have to keep figuring it out every time I picked one up…) and got them fitted. They fit reasonably well. But much better with a little tweaking, bending, and scribing the edges to match the body a little closer. Even then though, the hole for the roll cage bar in that area is way oversized. Today I made some filler pieces that I’ll rivet on before powder coat. Not pictured. The completed pieces will be held in place with two rivets through the hatch sides and a healthy bead of caulking at final assembly. Should do the job.

Left side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1555791959

Right side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1555791951

No pictures (not very useful) but I final riveted the hatch sides and shock tower covers, so they’re now completed as well. The instructions say to not install the hatch sides until the body is installed. But I’ve found the body goes on/off with them in place with no issues. The rear cockpit corners, on the other hand, do need to wait until the body is installed as the instructions say. So I just have those cleco’d for now.

Next up was the left and right firewall extensions and inner firewall extensions. The instructions say both must wait until the body is installed as well. Agreed for the firewall extensions. But looks like there’s no issue with riveting the inner extensions now. One thing though. The firewall extensions (the larger vertical piece) cover up the door hinges. So, they need to be removable. Unless you think you’ll never need to adjust the door hinges. (!!) I’ll be using nutserts on mine. Not completed yet.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1555791966

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1555791975

Last up, while in Texas and visiting with Henry (65 Cobra Dude) he suggested a Coupe mod that was apparently popular with the previous generation Coupes. Finished parts are listed at Whitby, but they’re for the Gen 2. So rather than adapt (even though not hard I guess) I’m going to make my own. Starting with these parts for $18 from Amazon. Many will recognize what this is for. But I’ll leave it a mystery for now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1555791997

That’s it. Back to the shop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edwardb

....Many will recognize what this is for. But I’ll leave it a mystery for now....

---

"Ohhhh! Ohhhh! I know! Pick me! Pick me!" He says while waving his hand in the air :)

Looking good Paul!

Jeff

Ok so I know NOTHING about coupe mods... and I’ve never owned a pair or even been on them before (just the old school 4 wheel type and even some metal wheel types lol) But just the visual and my logical mind of seeing things.....
I know what they are, but what the heck do you do with them???? Can’t wait for the answer ;)

Kurt

Wheelie bar???

Looking good Paul. Glad to see you are back at it.
Can you go ahead and start a list and put me on top of people wanting to buy this car when you are ready to move on to the next?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wareaglescott

Wheelie bar???

---

No, that's not it. But interesting... :cool:
https://oi867.photobucket.com/albums...psurneon46.jpg

Rollers, from skates, to guide the hood clam-shell down would be my guess or maybe you are fabbing up some skates.

The Daytona would be perfect with 502 or 572 BBC with a Turbo 400 or Power Glide to pound the 1/4 Mile.

Anyway, the more you document the more I'm convinced that I can't build one of these suckers.

I'll Stay Tuned Sir Edwardb (aka: Mr. Paul) As Always!

Spoiler alert. One of the guesses is right. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoDadGo

Rollers, from skates, to guide the hood clam-shell down would be my guess or maybe you are fabbing up some skates.

---

Ohhhhhhh I knew roller blade wheels but no clue for what.
My thanks to The Dark side!

Kurt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edwardb

Spoiler alert. One of the guesses is right. :rolleyes:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoDadGo

Rollers, from skates, to guide the hood clam-shell down would be my guess or maybe you are fabbing up some skates.

---

Winner! Give that man a chocolate Easter bunny :)

Jeff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by edwardb

Spoiler alert. One of the guesses is right. :rolleyes:

---

Those are from American hockey skates!!

OK. So just bought my wheels. I will stay tuned to find out how I are going to install them.

Curioius if you plan on cutting any access ports in the hatch area for tail light access?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdavis500

Curioius if you plan on cutting any access ports in the hatch area for tail light access?

---

At this point I'm not planning to. There's some room to reach between the inside of the body and the rear hatch cover. But don't know if that will be adequate. We'll see. I will definitely make the wires long enough so that the connectors (planning all Weatherpacks) come through the holes when the light mounting nuts are removed from the inside. So that's all you would have to reach. Also all the lights are LED's so theoretically have a long life and limited service requirements. He says with great optimism... Wiring up all the lights will be the next thing I work on if I ever finish messing around with the body.

you will want to seal that area of the firewall extensions VERY well... the heat that comes through there will not be what you want... make sure you spray foam that area at the very bottom of the pontoon as well.. you will want to seal that inside corner... I got some smaller bulb seal where you have that large seal then continued it down around that inside corner.. I would compare this to the cobra area right above the door hinge that everyone complains about air getting into the cabin... we normally use pool noodles there but in the coupe it isn't possible... I also spayed foam with the door open in that area... I made a tube extension and sprayed all in behind that spot low on the pontoon.... sealed up nice and at least gives the AC a fighting chance.... the big horizontal rear glass in the sun just acts a natural heater btw! I will probably end up putting some light tint on there at some point as well.

BTW, if you don't put that rear aluminum deck piece on until after you drop the body on - you will have no problem getting to the tail lights... you will be in that area to secure the rear body mounts anyway... no issue.

just my observations thus far... 2700 miles and counting! Autox and car shows this weekend!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves

you will want to seal that area of the firewall extensions VERY well... the heat that comes through there will not be what you want... make sure you spray foam that area at the very bottom of the pontoon as well.. you will want to seal that inside corner... I got some smaller bulb seal where you have that large seal then continued it down around that inside corner.. I would compare this to the cobra area right above the door hinge that everyone complains about air getting into the cabin... we normally use pool noodles there but in the coupe it isn't possible... I also spayed foam with the door open in that area... I made a tube extension and sprayed all in behind that spot low on the pontoon.... sealed up nice and at least gives the AC a fighting chance.... the big horizontal rear glass in the sun just acts a natural heater btw! I will probably end up putting some light tint on there at some point as well.

BTW, if you don't put that rear aluminum deck piece on until after you drop the body on - you will have no problem getting to the tail lights... you will be in that area to secure the rear body mounts anyway... no issue.

just my observations thus far... 2700 miles and counting! Autox and car shows this weekend!!

---

Thanks Erik. Great tips and much appreciated. I'll follow through on your suggestions. Enjoy your Autox. We have snow in the forecast. :mad:

Well my teaser picture of the inline skate wheels created a few more comments than I was expecting, and their purpose was correctly identified on both forums. Today I have the hood rollers basically completed. Still need the brackets powder coated then will bolt on for good. This is another one of those optional upgrades, but really is a nice addition. It's a bit inconvenient raising and lowering the hood (or cowl in this case I guess) and typically had to go back and forth on each side a couple times to keep it from hitting the corner of the body opening or trying to knock off the lowest bumper on each side. Or ask someone to help and spread as it opened and closed. With the rollers in place, it’s a one-person job from one side and is effortless without hitting anything. I removed the bottom bumper on each side because the rollers provide the same function in that area. Super nice mod that I highly recommend.

As I mentioned previously, a complete version is listed at Whitby’s. But are for the previous Gen Coupes. They mount in an area below the latching U-bolts. The Gen 3 is changed in that area, so can’t mount in the same place or fashion. Could be mounted to the aluminum footbox sides, and probably would be just fine. But I decided to come up with a design more compatible with the Gen 3. Plus, I did it for about one third the cost, if you consider the time spent free of course. Like budget is much of a consideration at this point. :rolleyes:

After even more sitting and staring, decided to mount them to the side of the steel bracket that the U-bolts are attached to. They angle back to the frame and have a relatively large surface to attach to. First made a pattern out of cardboard. Then made some very rough concept pieces out of .040 aluminum. Could have left the bracket square like the cardboard pattern. But decided they needed a little more flair so add the circles where the wheels mount. Ended up looking a little like Micky Mouse ears. After some tweaking and changes, liked what I had and made the final pieces from .125 thick 6061 aluminum. I was going to make them out of mild sheet steel. But decided on the aluminum since it’s so much easier to work with considering the tools I have. I’m very satisfied with the strength. They’re solid and work perfectly.

There’s already a slot in the U-bolt mount, so used that for two mounting bolts. I lengthened it on the outside of the footbox so that one bolt could be on the outside. Both bolts could be inside. But I wanted one closer to the bend and the rollers to provide as much rigidity as possible. For the inside one, had to open the slot slightly for the 5/16-inch carriage bolts I used. A smaller bolt size could work, but I had those on hand so used them. The minor mods to the frame U-bolt mounts was easy on the side with the access cover. Not so easy on the other side where I have all the aluminum finalized. If you’re thinking about this mod and mount them the same way, highly recommend fitting them up before mounting the aluminum panels. Would be much easier. Here are pics.

Developing the concept and rough prototypes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1556329877

Driver side final version.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1556329890

Passenger side final version with access cover off showing carriage bolt attachments, and with cover on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1556329897

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1556329905

Cut required in underside of cowl flange to clear roller assembly and U-bolt latches.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1556329913

Next up I'll finalize the pontoon alignment pins and a little more remaining bodywork. Then on to final electrical and lighting. Completely off topic side note. My first build, a Mk3 Roadster with a warmed up 306 is owned by a good buddy in our local club and see it often. He had a Factory Five premium top put on it (those are really nice) and had a shop install the Saturn Vue electric power steering system. It’s now over 10,000 miles and hadn’t been tuned up since I sold it to him 5 years ago. He’s been doing the usual fluid changes, lube, etc. But hadn’t touched anything else on the engine. He asked if he could bring it over and have me check it out. It was fun getting my hands dirty on my old build. He’s taking great care of it and still looks brand new. Cleaned up the contacts in the MSD distributor and put some new plugs in it. Other than that, everything looked perfect and runs great. Was a good time with both friends. :o

Paul-

Skate wheel mod looks great, as with everything else you build... I have to remark on your confidence though (in a good way!!). I noticed that you didn't oval any of the holes where the wheels are mounted to allow for modest adjustments. I have to admire the fact that you were so confident in your measurements and execution, that you felt it unnecessary to allow for any adjustment! I on the other hand, would have allowed for a wide range of adjustment options!! I admire your skill and execution Paul!

As with all of your builds, I have enjoyed following along and look forward to seeing her all finished up! She looks terrific!

Regards,

Steve

I will steal that design for sure..... nicely executed Sir