Gen 3 Coyote in the House
Look what showed up in my garage workshop today.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1535559691
If you've been following this build thread, no secret my goal has been to use the new Gen 3 Coyote crate. Over the months I’ve been following the progress closely as Ford Performance prepared for its release. I was able to establish a contact at Ford Performance who has been very gracious to let me know the status whenever I asked. They are still a couple weeks away from general public release. But late last week I was given the opportunity to purchase a Gen 3 engine and control pack in advance of the general release. Working through a dealer I completed the deal. No surprise the Gen 3 is more expensive. Yesterday the control pack was delivered. Today the engine itself. I’m just starting to digest the new instructions and what differences I’ve uncovered so far. But thought I'd throw some pictures out there. My plan right now is to drop just the engine into the Coupe chassis, like I did with #8674, to determine and finalize the best routing and layout for everything. I’ll get going on that right away.
The control pack is pretty similar to the Gen 2. Same PDB and a lot of the same connections. Same exact DBW pedal. Just one clutch switch like the later Gen 2’s. Combined ODB2 plug and MIL also like later Gen 2’s. And also simpler power connection, also as I believe is on later Gen 2’s. Differences I’ve noticed so far: The overall harness is much simpler and shorter than the early Gen 2 I have in #8674. Should fit without a lot of extra. The pigtail connection has been slimmed down to just three wires. Fuel pump, start sense, ignition sense. Still no tach wire. I asked Ford about this and they told me starting in 2015 the PCM’s didn’t have a proper tach signal for aftermarket gauges. So back to tapping one of the coil wires like before. The O2 sensors have their own harness. Unlike the Gen 2 that were attached to the engine. The instructions describe setting the fuel regulator at 65 PSI vs. 55 on the previous models. I’m guessing because of the added direct injection? But it has its own pump on the engine. Who knows. One big difference is the Bosch PCM vs the Continental PCM from before. My old company lost the contract I guess. I didn’t put the two side-by-side. But it does appear slightly larger. From what I hear at Ford Performance, a lot going on there compared to before with the additions to the Gen 3. I’ll describe more as I learn more and proceed with the installation. But here’s a pic with the parts received. The stock air box pieces are still in the box. Other than the MAF sensor, nothing usable. Too bad.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1535559685
The engine itself I’d seen before at Autorama and also posted pictures. But a little different now that it’s actually in my garage. Not a lot to say at this point since I literally just unwrapped it a couple hours ago. Nice to see Ford shipped it with a proper engine cradle vs. blocks on the skid. Some new plumbing to figure out. Looks like the CMCV setup is plumbed differently. That was a subject of a bunch of forum posts with the Gen 2. Looks like we’ll get to start that again! Obviously the top of the heads are now completely covered with wiring, plumbing, etc. because of the DI. Most have seen the new UFO looking engine cover for the Gen 3. Will think about what to do after it’s in the chassis. One major thing I noticed, and I hadn’t learned about this before, is that the 2018 Mustang manual setup has a dual mass flywheel and twin disc clutch. You can see the different flywheel in the pics. Will have to figure out what this means. Nice upgrade, but hopefully doesn’t affect my already on-hand QuickTime bell housing and Tilton hydraulic throw-out bearing. I purchased the Coyote engine lift brackets offered on the forum by TD Motion. Decided those would work better than the homemade ones I used before. Just bolted them on and they fit perfectly. Here are pictures and will provide more updates later as I dig into it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1535559701
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1535559737
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1535559708
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1535559716
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1535559746
Gen 3 Mock-Up Started plus Updates
Today I was able to get the Gen 3 Coyote into the Gen 3 Coupe chassis. All by myself. But then no flywheel, clutch, bell housing or transmission. Just the engine itself. So that’s cheating. I’ll definitely get help when it’s time to put the whole thing in. But this let’s me work on placement for everything in the engine compartment. Glad I’m taking this step because things are pretty tight.
What I learned today: In general, the fit isn’t as tight as the Roadster. It’s close to sheet metal in a few places, but nothing like the clearances in the Roadster. Exhaust header bolt access is pretty open on the passenger side, and all but the very back one on the drivers side also pretty accessible. For now I’m going to leave the original studs. The only one in question will be that back one on the DS. May shorten it or just use a regular bolt for that one spot. Oil filter is accessible. Without the factory cooler of course. Front dress on the engine (alternator, PS, A/C) all open and accessible. Starter motor also is fine. The direct injection (DI) pump on the PS head, discussed at some length in earlier posts, clears OK. Amazingly similar to the computer generated plots from Factory Five I posted. But the connector body attached to it was pretty hard against the top chassis rail as the engine was going down. So chose to move it out of the way to not damage anything. It’s a diaphragm style pump with a plunger that's actuated by the cam. With the two nuts removed, and the attached fuel line, lifts out of the way pretty easily. Once the engine is in, goes back together and clears everything just fine.
Over the next days I’ll be determining locations for the remaining components. I don’t see any choice but to put the PCM on the PS above the headers. Same as typically done with the Roadster. Will be congested over there with heat and A/C lines and components. But don’t see any other options. With the Roadster, it was necessary to remove the steering shaft when dropping in the Coyote. With this Coupe, not a hard interference point. I didn’t move it this time. But it’s a little bit in the way and will move it out of the way in the next round. The PDB will be somewhere on the firewall or foobox corners. Tight but should fit. Fuel pump regulator will be on the corner of the DS footbox. Not much else to say. Lots of work ahead now getting this done and as neat and orderly as possible.
Here are pictures from all sides. Similar to other builds with the Coyote engine. Just the added spaghetti from the Gen 3 Coyote.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1535751856
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1535751848
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1535751841
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1535751833
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1535751823
As can be seen in the pics, the tops of the heads are above the frame rails. Without the coil covers as the previous Coyotes, all the wiring and plumbing is hanging out for all to see. Don’t think much can be done about that. I don’t think the Gen 3 cover with the wings over that area would help at all. In fact, I’m thinking would look pretty out of place. Still an open subject. Probably will only try to do something over the intake itself.
Speaking of open subjects, here’s an update on the two issues I raised in my previous post:
Incompatible Moroso oil pan pickup due to the different oil pump in the Gen 3 Coyote: Heard back from Moroso. They are planning to offer an updated pickup. But no timing was offered. I asked for possible timing in a follow-up. At this point I’m not too optimistic that’s going to be a solution in time for this build. After staring at it for a while and thinking about it, I’m pretty confident I can modify the existing Moroso pickup with some tubing and my friend the welder down the street. Tearing the engine down and changed back to the former pump is absolutely not in the cards.
Incompatible dual mass flywheel: Today I removed the factory provided dual mass flywheel. Would have had to do that anyway to install the QuickTime block plate. Even if it would have worked with my bell housing and T-56 transmission. As best I can tell, the end of the crankshaft is unchanged from the previous version. Maybe even the same part. I’m confident a regular Coyote flywheel can be installed along with a standard clutch. Planning the same parts as used in #8674 as already mentioned. The only thing missing is the pilot bearing. The one in the dual mass flywheel is different. But that’s a standard part (M-7600-C) so will get one along with the other parts and all should be good. I temporarily mounted the block plate and bell and checked the dimension compared to the input shaft of the T-56. It’s perfect. So this is nearing resolution. This is what it looked like under the dual mass flywheel with my QuickTime block plate. I had already purchased new flywheel bolts.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1535751816
One other difference I noticed. There was another connection and device of some kind in addition to the oil pressure sensor. In the area of the oil filter. Removed the part and did a little digging. Turns out it’s an oil control valve, and appears to be used to route oil into the now removed oil cooler. Seems the F150 version of the Coyote has this valve, and now it’s on the Mustang version as well. Even though it’s not doing anything, I’m going to leave it in place just in case the PCM is expecting it to be there. Same for the oil pressure sensor. For later versions of the Gen 2, instructions were to remove the stock sensor and replace with the required unit for the dash gauge. Apparently the PCM wasn’t using this signal. I don’t know if the Gen 3 is the same, and at this stage might not be able to get a good answer. Simple solution is to leave it and T in the added sensor. Also note the little heat shields around the sensors. Several of those on the engine.
Update March 2020: The Gen 3 Coyote requires the OE oil pressure sender to remain. So a T fitting is required to add the gauge sender. Discussed later in the build thread.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1535751808
Still a long ways to go. But feel a lot better about this than I did at this time yesterday.
Here we go with wiring and the rest
Spent some time today dragging parts out of the basement that had been mocked up before and started putting them where they’ll eventually stay. This is where the “One bite at a time…” saying has to be followed. There’s a lot to do but just go one step at a time. I’m feeling relieved I decided to drop the engine in for this stage. It’s tight plus a lot going on. I never would have been able to envision it (or get it right…) without that big chunk in there. Here’s what I’ve learned so far.
Mounted the radiator sheet metal and radiator/condenser. It will be coming off one more time to put the engine in permanently. But I wanted to check out the cool tubes from Boig now that I have the engine locations to aim at. Plus the routing of the upper and lower radiator hoses affects other things. Great news. Both of the Boig tubes fit perfectly! Bob promised they would, and he was right. I was mostly worried about that tiny window to get the lower hose through by the frame and sway bar. But it fits and the alignment to the engine is great. The upper hose also works out well with the cool tube and the control pack provided upper hose. The routing is excellent. Note I’m not using a T-filler since I’m using the Moroso Mustang pressure tank and Mustang hose routing. Same as #8674. Looks like the tank is going to fit in the center under the two cross pieces. Then the cold air intake will fit over into the opening on the DS. Similar to how it’s done in the Roadster.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1535833704
Draped the various wiring harnesses into their preliminary locations, including the main RF harness, the front RF harness, and the main Coyote harness + PDB. Tentatively I’m planning to put the PDB on the firewall above the DS footbox. Then route the main cable behind the firewall and break into the engine compartment by the PS footbox. That will keep the majority of the cable hidden plus take up a little of the slack. I put enough of the heat and A/C components in to see where they’ll be and have to avoid. I see no choice but to put the Coyote PCM on the PS side above the header area. Very similar to where it's typically installed in a Roadster, as I mentioned before. Will have to get creative with some type of mounting bracket.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1535833713
These pictures are just overall of what it looks like now and what I have to get buttoned down. Wiring and related doesn't bother me. Actually kind of enjoy it. But it's easy to see why some get intimidated at this stage. It should look quite different when done.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1535833697
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1535833689
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1535833682
One final comment about a prior subject. The dual mass flywheel that came with the Gen 3 Coyote. As already stated, I’m not going to be able to use it. Ford did make some changes to the MT-82 6-speed for 2018 that’s used in the Mustang to address some issues and make it better. Obviously at the same time they must have shortened the input to match this setup. Perhaps that new MT-82 will be an option some may want to consider for their Gen 3 Coyote builds. Just for grins though I put the now loose dual mass flywheel on a scale. That bad boy weighs 34 pounds. The previous Coyote’s nodular flywheel I measured at 29 pounds. The Ford Performance M-6375-M50 billet steel flywheel I have in #8674 and will now use for this build weighs 20 pounds. I’m not a fan of the real light aluminum flywheels for street drivers. But going the other direction to 34 pounds seems really heavy. I probably would have still used it if it fit. But not sure it’s the best for these builds. Comments from someone who knows more about this than me? (Wouldn’t take too much.)
We have a busy couple weeks coming up, including some time away. So this will probably be the last update for a bit. Plus I have a lot to do to make a dent.
Gen 3 Coyote Installation Update
Was away for several days visiting family. But back home to work, plan, and spend money. Making some progress. Still a long way to go, but here’s where I’m at today.
Dual-mass flywheel: Removed because it won’t work for me, as described before, and have received the following parts, all from Ford Performance:
- M-6375-M50 Lightweight Billet 8 Bolt Flywheel
- M-7600-C Roller Pilot Bearing - High Load - 4.6L/5.4L/5.0L4
- M-7560-T46 Clutch Assembly 26 spline, 11.0 inches (Note: Centerforce dual friction with Ford branding. Nice clutch.)
- M-6397-B46 Pressure Plate Bolts and Dowels
- M-6379-C Flywheel Bolts
I don’t have everything assembled yet, and won’t until the engine is back out. But I’ve checked and measured everything and all appears to fit perfectly. Note as I mentioned before, this is the exact setup I have in #8674. So this just appears to confirm nothing has changed at this end of the Coyote once that dual-mass flywheel is removed. I mentioned before the 2018 Gen 3 Coyote also uses a twin disk clutch. Just to be clear, that doesn’t come with the crate motor. The previous Coyote crates didn’t include a clutch either. So no change there. The only difference in the shopping list above compared to previous Coyote versions is the pilot bearing and the flywheel. Previous versions already had a pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft. Now you have to add it. Previous versions had a nodular flywheel which many used. I did choose to upgrade to the lighter billet steel version listed above for #8674. So for me wasn’t a difference there. I’ll know for sure when it’s time to assemble all of the above, but I’m 99% confident this issue is resolved.
Moroso oil pickup tube: I heard back from Moroso a second time. First time they confirmed they knew their pickup tube wasn’t compatible with the Gen 3 Coyote. Said they would have an updated part sometime. I followed up asking “When?” and the answer was "TBD. No schedule at this time." So this will hopefully be a solution for other builders. But I’m not optimistic it will be for me. My plan now is to modify the existing pickup. I’ve just ordered a couple pieces of tubing from McMaster. I’m going to use the composite oil pan with the new style connection to make a fixture and cut/weld the old style Moroso pickup to fit the new pump and the Moroso low profile pan. I’m confident this will work fine. Will provide updates when completed.
Since the last update, received the Ford Performance M-8600-M50BALT 5.0 Alternator Kit, same as used on previous Coyotes. It fits fine. Also since the last update, have determined the location and method for mounting the PCM. I’m going to make a bracket that sandwiches it against the chassis tube in the location pictured previously. Will provide updates when completed. I’ve started the modification to the DBW module (accelerator pedal) and am using some ideas from another builder to re-use the existing pedal rather than the FFR supplied pedal piece. Looks like it’s going to work well. I’ll finalize that later when I have easier access to the footbox. One surprise (disappointment…) is that FFR put a nice mounting plate in the footbox that exactly matches the mounting screws on the Coyote DBW. Clearly they’re expecting lots of people to use a Coyote and DBW module. Unfortunately, it’s about 1/2-inch too high. Mounted in the holes provided, the connector for the DBW runs into the steering column. Easy enough fix to drill new holes. But missed it by that much… I've also decided to go with an Odyssey battery. The stock location is in the front, but height is somewhat limited by the steering rack. The Odyssey PC925T fits nicely. Same one recommended for the Hot Rod, and recommended by lots of builders. Small and relatively light.
New issues/findings: The throttle body on the Gen 3 Coyote appears to be another change. The inlet is the same diameter. But it’s angled UP 8-9 degrees more than the previous Coyotes. So some care is needed to use a right angle connector that turns down quickly because the underside of the cowl is already pretty close to the throttle body. The FFR listed Spectre parts, which I have in #8674, don’t look like they will fit. Both because of that and also because of the chassis bar in front of the engine. I’ve looked at a number of other aftermarket cold air intakes (Rousch, JLT, BBK, etc.) and doesn’t look like they’ll fit either. Granted one of my issues is I’m also trying to install the Moroso radiator pressure tank. So have to work around that too. After some research and lots of measuring, have ordered some parts from Treadstone Performance that I think (hope) will work. They just shipped so don’t have an update yet. But will when received and checked out.
Next finding, and last one for this update, is the famous Gen 3 Coyote engine cover. I went ahead and ordered one with the other parts listed above. Popped it on last night. First impressions are that it doesn’t look “too bad.” (Be nice when you see it. Remember what your Mother taught you. If you can't say anything nice...) But looks like the front outside corners of the “wings” hit the underside of the front cowl. Right now I’m just mocking up the location of the front cowl as best I can, so it’s possible it might barely fit when the cowl is actually installed. But it’s really close. The wings also really don’t do too much to cover up the wiring and tubing on the top of the heads. So my tentative plan for now is that I’m going to cut the wings off. I actually think it will look decent at that point. I do like the cleaner lines and sharper styling of the new cover compared to previous versions. With it cut off (I added lines in the picture below to show where I’m thinking to trim it) it will cover up some things and I think look OK. Probably will get some kind of custom painting on it like #8674. Without the wings, I also think it will clear the underside of the cowl. I’m not going to do anything with the cover for now. Will wait until I’m further along to cut and finish. But that’s the initial idea/impression. And just in case someone suggests changing the intake to something different (and better looking…) the Gen 3 stock intake is changed from previous versions and is getting great reviews in multiple tests. One of many changes making the Gen 3 closer to the GT350. Some are even using it as an upgrade to previous Gen Coyotes. So changing the intake isn’t going to happen for multiple reasons. Here are pictures. Onward and upward.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1536778444
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1536778460
