Whats the reason(s) to have used part on a almost new car? After all, we spend so much money on the kit, it would not make sense to use donor (used) or does it? Just throwing out that question out there. :-)
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Whats the reason(s) to have used part on a almost new car? After all, we spend so much money on the kit, it would not make sense to use donor (used) or does it? Just throwing out that question out there. :-)
Depends on the part you're talking about and the condition of the car from which it was removed. If you're not going with the complete kit and it's Wilwood brake pedals/reservoirs, then the Mustang pedal box (for brake and clutch) is the most likely way to go. This is a proven part and the kit is designed to accept it without much drama. Further, it's one of those parts that doesn't have appreciable wear and tear in the donor car. That is one donor part I used. Other parts include:
'94 SVT Cobra donor from the southwest (never a salt car) gave up the following:
Front spindles - another part that gets little wear and tear, just a quick sandblasting and coating of paint and they looked brand new (of course, I used new sealed hubs);
Brake calipers - added new seals to the original SVT twin piston PBR calipers that were in outstanding shape, have a nice titanium original color, and have "Cobra" machined in the outboard faces;
Brake rotors - the previous owner of the donor I bought had just added (within 100 miles) a set of four drilled rotors valued at around $500, which was a great bargain;
Rear end - because of no salt exposure, the rear end housing was in great shape (these weren't painted from Ford), I reused the original Ford Trac-Lok differential, but added new clutch pack, seals, axles, and a set of very low mileage (7,000 or so) 3.27:1 gears to replace the 3.08 that came stock on the donor;
Fuel tank, cover, and sender - if clean and rust-free, this is something that gets no wear and tear, a donor is perfect - I did use a new pick-up, though, without pump as my engine has a mechanical pump on it - tube/screen pickup is from Breeze;
Transmission - these things last lots of miles on cars that weren't beat-on, so I just had mine looked at by a friend who owns a trans shop - he put a .020 thrust spacer in it at the nose and said the rest of it looked good for another 100k miles;
Engine block, head castings, and SVT / Crane OEM roller rockers - I rebuilt the entire engine myself and only used those parts listed. The castings received a full machine shop inspection and, once cleaned and machined, were as good as new;
Parking brake cables - cause they work;
Oh, yeah... the degas tank was also off a "donor car," in my case a '62 big block Ford Fairlane.
None of the above went on my car without cleaning, inspecting, and (if needed) rebuilding. The reason I used these instead of buying new is that the kit was designed to fit them with little effort, are well designed and build by Ford, and will last the lifetime of the car. Plus, I paid only $2,500 for the donor (after I sold the rest of the car to a friend who built it into a track-car), so the cost was very reasonable, even after I put the additional money into the refreshing of the various parts.
I chuckle at those ads where sellers of FFRs talk about how their cars have "no used parts," even though the car has thousands of miles on it. Remember, once you turn a wheel, it's all used stuff, whether to you or to the next owner.
I also get a kick out of hearing guys say that FFRs are "just a bunch of used Mustang junk." Here are a couple pictures of my go-kart... sure doesn't look like junk to me!
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...ntOverhead.jpg
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...erSideView.jpg
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...eaterLines.jpg
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...blesDriver.jpg
The roots of FFR go back to the donor concept, where the idea was to take FFR engineered and fabricated parts, combine with a certain vintage Mustang, and you had a replica. This provided a replica at a lower cost than the "real" versions or one from one of the other replica makers selling full rollers. Much of the entire kit car industry was built around the donor concept, especially for high value/high tooling components like suspension parts, axles, differentials, etc. Many were very poorly executed. Who can forget some of the early VW/dune buggy creations? Fast forward to today where acceptable donors are harder and harder to find and no doubt the build quality (at least $$ spent) has escalated. FFR released the complete kit several years ago for this reason. Many were willing to spend the extra money for new parts and not go through the effort required to find and harvest the donor parts. I don't think there's any question a donor build still has the chance to be the most economical. And if done properly, is completely acceptable and just as good/reliable as a "new" build. Others may not want to spend the time required. Or they may choose to use parts that are not available through donor channels. Two examples: My new Mk4 build has FFR spindles and Wilwood brakes. Both are supposed to be better than donor parts. We'll see. My two builds to date -- one finished the other just starting -- are both "new" builds. For me it's a time and space issue, and a personal choice.
I also forgot to mention... one of the attractions of the FFR design is that it accepts parts from a common, proven design; i.e., the '87 - '04 Mustang. This opens-up the build process to donor parts, new OEM replacement parts, and aftermarket parts designed to fit those years of Mustang. This is a departure from many other kits that require a compilation of parts from various sources. What I was trying to communicate above is that for some parts, donor parts - particularly if refurbished, make sense from not just a cost perspective, but from design and function perspectives as well. Plus, you can sort of consider using donor parts as a "green" thing as you're recycling.
Escarlata,
You're right! Why if not to save money? And I understand that a lot of this discussion is for the sake of discussion which is kind of one of the reasons for a forum besides geting specific help, etc. I think that FFR was trying to allow people to enter the car building market who would not have been able to or didn't feel they were based on the expensive hot rod market. So it was a marketing tool that evidently had some merit (8000 roadsters later). This still appeals to the builder on a tight budget. However, now you will see "complete" kits and a transition to projects that are basically new components. I have a mix and match. Some donor parts that are very reliable. While I get peace of mind knowing that the engine is brand new (short block). Another reason that people are building new is that each year the specific target donors keep getting older and therefore the quality will get worse. That's why I have either not used some parts or choose to get after market things that made the build better quality. Then there are some out there who just like to tinker and rebuild stuff for the fun of it. Go figure! Just like any other hobby, it's what floats your boat. WEK.
As mentioned it made a ton of sense 12 yrs ago but not so much now. But I still love the concept. I recently decided to go w/ a faster ratio steering rack which I had been holding out on but I love the fact that I got a reman rack from autozone for approx. $115 including shipping. I have a friend w/ another brand replica and his rack is from some toyota model that is not imported to the US.He has no options except the kit maker. Not fun!
Gumball,
:). Really nice. I see now the execution of the vintage/authentic look in the car. I have been studying the links you sent me previously in response to my post on getting started. The more I study these the more I feel like going authentic as possible in the cockpit, engine compartment, and exterior.
1. Do you have a list of sources for the vintage stuff? For example the brake fluid reservoirs.
2. What is the tank forward of the firewall?
3. How did you treat the aluminum panels?
4. Are your sidepipes and headers ceramic coated? How much difference does it make in heat transfer area if they are?
5. Did you do anything special to ensure the gas tank was rust free, etc? I guess my question is how do you really tell if it is rust free inside?
Sorry for all the questions ...
Carl
Aside from the potential savings, tearing down a donor car can be a good, low-risk "refresher course" on how the FFR kit's mechanical parts will go together. I found tearing down the donor car to be a good education, or perhaps re-education, as it had been many years since I worked on a Mustang. Also, even if a bunch of the parts are shot, there is still some value in turning them in to save the core charges on things like steering racks, calipers, and probably more. This assumes you have the time, space and no other impediments to tearing down the car, and can buy a complete car for a decent price (admittedly big assumptions), but if so there is a good education and good savings to be had.
Gumball - That is one sweet ride! Looks neat! Thanks guys for your input. You guys are amazing, great info, great forum to be part of! Interesting stuff over here that I was not aware of.
I am using many donor parts from a ’04 cobra that was totaled (driver was ok!), that’s how I mainly started working/planning on building an FFR kit. Was first going to rebuild/upgrade an old Mustang but people are way too attached to their Mustang, asking way too much for them. So figure I give it a shot at the FFR kit since I always wanted one, who doesn’t?
I’m using from the donor Cobra the IRS, the complete brake system minus the rotors, lines, and brake pads which I will rebuild or build or order new ones. And then for engine I have a Ford 390 block with new Edelbrock aluminum heads and 2x4 aluminum intake that I need to put together. But that’s later on.
Thanks again guys!!!
Chris;
I like your solution to the fuel tank vent hose problem. What kind of canister is that you're running it through?
Thanks,
Carl / Ibperry,
1. Do you have a list of sources for the vintage stuff? For example the brake fluid reservoirs. Check out the postings in the "modifications for originality" over at ffcars.com for a list of most of my vintage mods, including parts lists and suppliers. Whenever possible, I try to source things from vendors who support FFR
2. What is the tank forward of the firewall? It's a reproduction of the oil catch tank that was used on the original Comp cars, but I just use it as a means of venting both of the filtered breather caps (which have been changed from what is in the photo above, by the way) so that the engine does not have positive crankcase pressure. See the forum mentioned above for details.
3. How did you treat the aluminum panels? No treatment, other than regularly wiping them down with a soft rag and some WD40. All the panels in the photos are three years old, but have always been kept in a heated area in the winter.
4. Are your sidepipes and headers ceramic coated? How much difference does it make in heat transfer area if they are? Ceramic coated - sort of a dark charcoal/black. The headers are the BBK version from FFR that came silver, but the local place that coated both the headers and side pipes for me first removed the silver, then coated everything in the black. No idea on the heat transfer, but they do get plenty hot, so I'm guessing not much of a reduction.
5. Did you do anything special to ensure the gas tank was rust free, etc? I guess my question is how do you really tell if it is rust free inside? With the sender unit, pump/pick-up, and filler tube removed and the tank out of the donor, you can really see quite a bit of the inside of the tank. Mine was in great shape... still very shiny galvanized looking, with no issues around the spot-welds holding the pick-up "anti-slosh fence" in place or along the interiors of the seam between top and bottom half.
I like your solution to the fuel tank vent hose problem. What kind of canister is that you're running it through? It's just a home-made charcoal canister using some PVC parts that I picked-up in the local hardward store's plumbing section, filled with some charcoal pouches from a pet store. The tubing is coiled to prevent any slosh that happens to make it past the in-tank vent from wetting the charcoal and as a prevention against charcoal dust from getting sucked back into the tank, I added some cotton patches (gun cleaning patches) to the inside of the canister where the vent line enters (at the top as shown in the picture). The bottom short line is just a drain in case the canister does get some fuel in it. It's working perfectly, with no fuel smell and no problems with tank venting - i.e., it's not pulling a vacuum in the tank due to lack of airflow through the canister.