Tilton master cylinders will fit a Mk5

I just saw a recent post in a build thread in which edwardb reported that he found the Tilton 75 master cylinder would not fit in place of the Wilwood. Looking at his photo it's easy to see that would be the case on the right side when using the 75 series. I'm using Tilton 76 series in my Mk5 and they do fit. I think that the conflict that Paul encountered is because the 75s are made to accept a clamp on reservoir or a push in barb fitting. This area at the inlet is more bulky on the 75 than that same area on the 76 and what was probably coming into contact with the square tube on the far right of the footbox. The 75 and 76 are the same internally with the primary difference being that the 76 has 7/16-20 threads at the inlet to accept a banjo fitting which is what I'm using on mine. It will also accept a 7/16-20 O ring fitting with either a barb on AN on the end however I can't speak for how either of those might fit. Two suggestions if you opt to use the 76...(1) on the far right master cylinder install the fitting prior to putting the master into place simply because once it's bolted to the pedal box tool access is limited---the other two are easy to access afterward and (2) either screw the upper studs in the pedal box in another 1/4" or cut them off that amount because you won't be able to get that nut on with the masters seated on the pedal box.

Just FYI :)

Jeff

Oh My, I saw the post title with Tilton's and assumed it was Mike Bray! Did you go with Tilton because of the threaded inlet and banjo fitting? Please educate. Every mechanical component has a certain failure rate. It's not clear if Wilwood is above that threshold. Thanks.

Thanks for the response Jeff. I know next to nothing about what MC's Tilton offers. You know what they say -- I don't know what I don't know. I purchased the series 75 for the clutch in my Mk5 build because that's what all the posts said to replace the Wilwoods with. I guess that would work with the previous Roadster versions. But with how tight the pedal box is in the Mk5 with the Wilwoods, that's why I posted the previously recommended Tiltons wouldn't fit in the Mk5. Little did I know... Glad there's a simple solution with the series 76 for those who choose to change to Tilton.

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Originally Posted by Ejzajac

Oh My, I saw the post title with Tilton's and assumed it was Mike Bray! Did you go with Tilton because of the threaded inlet and banjo fitting? Please educate. Every mechanical component has a certain failure rate. It's not clear if Wilwood is above that threshold. Thanks.

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I read of some failures here and experienced two personally. One was bad right out of the box while building the Gen3 Coupe with FFR at the SEMA show and another was on a customer car when it was here for paint and I found the drivers floor carpet soaked with brake fluid. Figured I'd give 'em a try and while researching I liked the idea of the 76's banjo fitting vs the barbed configuration of the 75.

Jeff

I used the 76 series with banjo fittings. If I was doing it again I would use -4 flex hoses from the bulkhead fittings on the firewall to the inlets of the master cylinders instead of hard line. Other than that the Tiltons have been flawless as has always been my experience in the past. As a percentage the reported (not actual) number of failures is too high for me.

Attachment 218685

Hey everyone - as a follow up to this thread, are the Tilton 76 users going with a 3/4" bore size front and rear or something else? In addition, I am using a Tilton hydraulic throw out bearing and curious if I just use the same unit for it as well as the brakes. Thanks in advance. For reference, I am building a Coupe and ordered the Aerolite 6 brake kit from GL racing.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

Hey everyone - as a follow up to this thread, are the Tilton 76 users going with a 3/4" bore size front and rear or something else? In addition, I am using a Tilton hydraulic throw out bearing and curious if I just use the same unit for it as well as the brakes. Thanks in advance. For reference, I am building a Coupe and ordered the Aerolite 6 brake kit from GL racing.

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I have Wilwood calipers front and rear and a Tilton hydraulic throwout bearing.

0.75" for the front
1.0" for the rear
0.812" for the clutch

You can contact Tilton and they can help you calculate MC size.

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Originally Posted by Ejzajac

It's not clear if Wilwood is above that threshold.

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The number of reported failures in our small community is too high IMO. Think of it this way, if the clutch MC fails it's a big PITA to change. If one f the brake MCs fail in a balance bar setup you have zero braking. Think about that....

Yes, I beat the drum for Tilton, not because I'm a paid spokesman (I wish) or anything but because the Wilwood's have a high rate of failure and the consequences can literally be deadly.

You can watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz4AlAt7DJ8

And read through this: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ghlight=tilton

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Originally Posted by Mike.Bray

The number of reported failures in our small community is too high IMO. Think of it this way, if the clutch MC fails it's a big PITA to change. If one f the brake MCs fail in a balance bar setup you have zero braking. Think about that....

Yes, I beat the drum for Tilton, not because I'm a paid spokesman (I wish) or anything but because the Wilwood's have a high rate of failure and the consequences can literally be deadly.

You can watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz4AlAt7DJ8

And read through this: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ghlight=tilton

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Although I have a Tilton MC for my clutch, as it was an easy swap and I liked the build quality, still not sold on some kind of massive failure rate of Wilwoods. And there is still no empirical data to support. I'm sure that FFR could provide a stat pretty easily of how many they have or have not had to replace, but they seem to have confidence with the Wilwood brand for their new MKV as well as the rest of their lineup. Backdraft and Superformance also use Wilwood MCs. ERA adopted Tilton MCs back in 1991.

Not a cheerleader for either one as I have not had failures either way (knock on wood), but reviews with most major resellers are 4 -5 stars with virtually every model they sell.

2 of mine were dead out of the box. The rods had heavy corrosion on them. I only notice because I happened to pull the boot back to see how they worked.

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Originally Posted by burchfieldb

2 of mine were dead out of the box. The rods had heavy corrosion on them. I only notice because I happened to pull the boot back to see how they worked.

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Corrosion? Sounds like you got a used set.

Thanks for the information as I'm making my parts list now as my kit will be delivered in November.

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Originally Posted by cv2065

Although I have a Tilton MC for my clutch, as it was an easy swap and I liked the build quality, still not sold on some kind of massive failure rate of Wilwoods. And there is still no empirical data to support. I'm sure that FFR could provide a stat pretty easily of how many they have or have not had to replace, but they seem to have confidence with the Wilwood brand for their new MKV as well as the rest of their lineup. Backdraft and Superformance also use Wilwood MCs. ERA adopted Tilton MCs back in 1991.

Not a cheerleader for either one as I have not had failures either way (knock on wood), but reviews with most major resellers are 4 -5 stars with virtually every model they sell.

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Call me crazy but I carry full coverage on my car. Similar deal to me.

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Originally Posted by Mike.Bray

Call me crazy but I carry full coverage on my car. Similar deal to me.

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Same, I just don’t pay for the commercials.

Here are pics of the Tilton 75 Series installed in my MkV, I used 3/4" for front/rear and 13/16" for the clutch. They're a little tighter than the Wilwoods but they do fit as Jeff says.

Attachment 218816Attachment 218817

Almost…

Fittings are from Pegasus. It fits against the flat, but the chance of that being the right torque is low. Maybe because of the lowered pedal box that Jeff did?

https://flic.kr/p/2ryfu4U


Thinking about this more (seems to be a theme in my build), I maybe be able to clock the fitting my a varying thickness of copper underneath. Especially since it’s 0 pressure.

What banjo fittings, bolt, and washers did you use?

I also used Tilton 75s in my Mark V. 13/16" for the clutch and 3/4" for the brakes. I would post pics but I can't get pictures to load.

I used the 76 series in my Mk5 build with banjo fittings. I had to grind some off the top of the banjo bolt, and notched the frame. I later found i could have used a different 7/8 fitting that might have elieveated the need to grind the frame.

I used a 13/16 for the front, and a 7/8 for the rear, Wilwood brakes from FFR.

The Tilton 75's fit
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1775183810

It looks like the corrosion is a big problem. Is there anyway to have a stainless steel rod installed instead of whats there.

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Originally Posted by RobHartley

The Tilton 75's fit
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1775183810

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How easy will they be to remove if one goes bad? I don't have an MKV so curious.

There is the top access panel that comes off in the later Mk5, but the far right MC nuts are going to be a challenge, it would be easier to drop the whole pedal box out and replace an MC on the bench, I'm going to have a "think" on the maintenance aspect of this.

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Originally Posted by CW_MI

I used the 76 series in my Mk5 build with banjo fittings. I had to grind some off the top of the banjo bolt, and notched the frame. I later found i could have used a different 7/8 fitting that might have elieveated the need to grind the frame.

I used a 13/16 for the front, and a 7/8 for the rear, Wilwood brakes from FFR.

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Hi. I’m on this step and the clearance isn’t enough for the larger banjo bolt.
Which banjo bolt did you think would have fit better? I don’t want to notch the frame.

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Originally Posted by brian.pautsch

Hi. I’m on this step and the clearance isn’t enough for the larger banjo bolt.
Which banjo bolt did you think would have fit better? I don’t want to notch the frame.

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I don't think any banjo bolt will fit without notching the frame. Someone did post a low profile fitting, that replaced the large 7/8" (?), I can't remember which thread it was. I remember making the comment about had i known about that fitting i would have went that route. It might have been on poster Trackday's build thread ?

I went with the 75 series, I just got them Saturday afternoon and am working on it now.
Tilton recommended 3/4 for my clutch and 7/8 for front and rear brakes.

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Originally Posted by brian.pautsch

Hi. I’m on this step and the clearance isn’t enough for the larger banjo bolt.
Which banjo bolt did you think would have fit better? I don’t want to notch the frame.

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I was looking around online today. I'm wondering if this would work without notching the frame ? You'd have to remove the inlet adapter that comes installed from Tilton, then replace with this.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/100743/10002/-1

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Originally Posted by brian.pautsch

Hi. I’m on this step and the clearance isn’t enough for the larger banjo bolt.
Which banjo bolt did you think would have fit better? I don’t want to notch the frame.

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I had to switch to the AN fitting adapter to avoid this. I know others have done this as well.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-76-015

Brent

Something like this running between the reservoir and master---

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-350018

combined with this---

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hse-332-04-2

Will result in a lower profile.

Jeff

This is the issue I ran into on mine, the banjo was too tall and hit the frame. The AN provided the needed clearance.

Attachment 228650

Attachment 228651

This was another users solution.

Attachment 228652

Attachment 228653

Attachment 228654

Ok, I've got a question for you guys that installed the 75's.
I kind of screwed up on the orientation of one of my caps and it does not want to move.
Am I screwed ? Just get a new one and o ring ?
Really hacked at myself at the moment.

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Originally Posted by TrackDay17

Ok, I've got a question for you guys that installed the 75's.
I kind of screwed up on the orientation of one of my caps and it does not want to move.
Am I screwed ? Just get a new one and o ring ?
Really hacked at myself at the moment.

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Got any pictures of it?

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Originally Posted by burchfieldb

Got any pictures of it?

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I figured it out, I ended up hitting the top caps with a little heat from my heat gun and put on a leather glove and it turned to where I needed.
Just had to be careful to not put too much heat to the plastic.
Crisis averted.