Rob’s Mk5 Legacy Build - Center section and rear suspension installed

Mk5 Build Planning
This is my plan for my Mk5 Roadster, as posted in the Welcome Forum, I am in Port Moody BC Canada and will be doing this with my two adult sons (we’re going to the Build School Oct 17, visiting FFR Oct 21 for a tour and to finalize the order. I want to make this a legacy build that both boys will continue to enjoy long after I’m gone, so it needs to be a daily driver. Being in Canada I will order what I can from FFR and then Valins for the completion kit (already having a great email thread with Ryan).

Powertrain - Ordered from Fortes
Fuel injected 347 Stroker, Edelbrock Pro-Flo 4 EFI, Cobra Valve Covers and Air Cleaner, TKX transmission, external hydraulic slave (Blueprint from Fortes Part Connection)

FFR Mk5 Kit - Ordered!

• 16757 - Headers: 302 stainless steel 4-port
• 17819 - Polished Stainless Steel Side Exhaust
• 15945 - 2015-2017 Mustang IRS Manual Driveshaft Adapter
• 16006 - Speedhut Vintage GPS 7 Gauge Set (Speedometer - kmh, Voltage, Fuel Level, Tachometer
• 16962 - Diamond Stitched Leather Seats
• 16613 - Powder Coated Chassis, Satin Black
• 17657 - Chrome Driver Side 1.5" Rollbar
• 17660 - Chrome Passenger Side 1.5" Rollbar
• 12239 - 14” Leather Steering Wheel
• 17728 - Mk5 Body with Cut-Outs
• 15470 - Paintable ABS Plastic Hood Scoop
• 17742 - Carbon Fiber Dash
• 17617 - 2" Wide 5-point Street/Competition Harness
• 12049 - Wind Wings
• 16808 - Trunk Gas Strut Kit
• 12469 - Brake Duct Wire Mesh Set
• 17872 - 4-Post Battery Cutoff Switch (with alternator circuit, non-removable key)
• 15659 - Assembled Side Louver Set
• 15549 – Vintage Wiper Kit (don’t plan to drive in the rain but because I live on the wet coast)
• 17814 - Mk5 Over-Rider Bumper Kit
• 15158 - Rollbar Grommet Set, Driver Side
• 15158X - Rollbar Grommet Set, Passenger Side
• 17508 – Logo Floor Mats
• 17094 - Diamond Stitch Door Panel Set
• 16427 - Hydraulic Clutch Throw-Out Bearing
• 14614 - Cooling System
• 17711 - Electrical System Completion Parts

Valins Custom Cars - Ordered!

• 17843 - MK5 Base Kit Completion Pack
• 17534X - Front Lower Control Arms
• 14850 - Front Spindle Set + hubs
• 16798 - Power Steering Rack kit
• 16042 - 2015 IRS Completion Pack
• 16126 - 2015 IRS 3.55 Center Section, Spindles, Hubs
• 15183 - E-Brake Handle
• 16919 - Wilwood Pedal Box and Hardware
• 34168 - Brake Reservoir Components
• 14481 - Accelerator Pedal
• 13083 - 302/351W Engine and Transmission Mounts
• 17712 - Remote Brake Booster
• 15355 - 12.88" Front Wilwood Brakes - Black
• 60849 - 12.88" IRS Wilwood Brakes - Black
• 14472 - OEM Fuel Tank Kit
• 16038 - 31 Spline Driveshaft for 302/TKX/IRS
• 15812 - 18" Halibrand Wheels

Additional Parts

• Copper Nickel brake lines
• Brake Bias adjuster
• Scott's Hot Rods Remote Reservoirs
• ie427 Turn Signal System
• Billet Automotive buttons
• Digital Guard Dawg Keyless Ignition
• Sparco 00493 Seat Tracks - driver side

Color
Blue with Gun Metal Gray stripes

Welcome,

Looking over your list based on my experience I would skip the FFR seat tracks. There are other options that cost the same or less and quite frankly work better. The FFR tracks are single lock and can create a little play in the seat. I used a Sparco setup that worked much better.

Good luck with your build.

Agree on skipping the FFR seat tracks, and you can get roll bar grommets from Mike Everson for $65. Although shipping may equalize the cost. I bought the 11" front brake kit and 13" rear IRS brake setup, and really didn't like the look of it, with larger rear rotors than fronts. It bugged me enough that I ripped it all off and ordered Wilwoods the next day. When you say "Russ Thompson Turn Signal System", who do you plan on getting that from now that Russ has passed? There are a few options here on the forum. As far as the FFR-supplied hydraulic clutch components, I think folks are gun shy to use the kit-supplied Wilwood master cylinder for their clutch, and frequently replace it with a Tilton unit. Not sure about the kit-supplied hydraulic throw out bearing; I went with a cable-driven clutch.

Ditch the FFR supplied hydraulic throwout bearing and get the best, Tilton. Match it with a 13/16" Tilton master cylinder.

I have the Digital Guard Dawg and have mixed feelings about it. If I did it again I would use the Marine version.

Good luck!

Gentlemen Thanks for the quick responses, this is great. Skipping the FFR seat tracks and going with Sparco, Tilton sounds like the plan for the clutch. I have Wilwood brakes on my spreadsheet, I would say that is the firm plan now. In reading the various forums about the FFR supplied turn signal solution, it is a concern, and does look a bit unfinished, I looking at the Microflex Labs solution, but will also continue to peruse the build forums.

Thanks Mike, ditching the FFR supplied hydraulic throwout bearing, Tilton it is! I will look at the Marine version of the Digital Guard Dawg

I'm working on the FFR supplied turn signal assembly on my Mk5 build literally right now. So far, hasn't gotten a lot of love on the forum. I'm going to try to use it. First, it's a standard Delco GM style switch assembly. One they've put on millions of cars. If you buy a high dollar ididit column it has the same switch. Not sure why people think it will be fragile or whatever. It plugs right into the hot rod connector on the RF harness and handles the mix between the turn signals and brake lights on the back. No trailer module required. Like all modern cars, it has lane change switching so when you hold the arm down without latching it flashes the turn signals. I am finding it slightly fiddly to adjust but I think it will work out OK. They include a template for a small cutout on the dash for the arm. If there's a negative it's the hazard switch which ends up as a button on the side behind the dash. I've already mocked up the wiring to break into the harness to allow a switch on the dash (where it should be). I briefly looked at the Microflex Labs solution. Nice but pretty big hit to the budget. Going to try to make the standard setup work.

I'd also take a look at tires available for 17" rims versus 18". Both are becoming a bit limited, but the 17" more so. The look is basically no different. I'd challenge anyone to tell by looking. Some will say the 18's ride harder. I've had both and haven't found that to be the case.

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Originally Posted by edwardb

I'm working on the FFR supplied turn signal assembly on my Mk5 build literally right now. So far, hasn't gotten a lot of love on the forum. I'm going to try to use it. First, it's a standard Delco GM style switch assembly. One they've put on millions of cars. If you buy a high dollar ididit column it has the same switch. Not sure why people think it will be fragile or whatever. It plugs right into the hot rod connector on the RF harness and handles the mix between the turn signals and brake lights on the back. No trailer module required. Like all modern cars, it has lane change switching so when you hold the arm down without latching it flashes the turn signals. I am finding it slightly fiddly to adjust but I think it will work out OK. They include a template for a small cutout on the dash for the arm. If there's a negative it's the hazard switch which ends up as a button on the side behind the dash. I've already mocked up the wiring to break into the harness to allow a switch on the dash (where it should be). I briefly looked at the Microflex Labs solution. Nice but pretty big hit to the budget. Going to try to make the standard setup work.

I'd also take a look at tires available for 17" rims versus 18". Both are becoming a bit limited, but the 17" more so. The look is basically no different. I'd challenge anyone to tell by looking. Some will say the 18's ride harder. I've had both and haven't found that to be the case.

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Mine was probably one of the non-love posts on the switch. Have you attached the turn lever with the screw yet? Did it go in easily? I tried this morning, and it was very hard to get in all the way. Didn't get it fully tight before it started spinning with no in or out. I saw Rickster991 had the same issue and worked around it by shortening the screw and pinning it in. I don't want to do that and have sought guidance from FFR. I understand that it is an old-line GM part that has been used for many years, so I guess I just don't know what the problem could be.

I am also not sure I don't have an issue with the cam. Mine has large weld lumps about 1/4" from the cam lobes. I am not sure how much flat space the springs need on the cam track. The assembly manual shows larger smooth spaces next to the cam lumps. Awaiting responses.

Thanks, Ralph

My theory is the that screw was not intended to come in and off. It was intended to be in an assembly that came on/off as a whole. For me it worked twice the third time it failed. My $.02….

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Originally Posted by rponfick

Mine was probably one of the non-love posts on the switch. Have you attached the turn lever with the screw yet? Did it go in easily? I tried this morning, and it was very hard to get in all the way. Didn't get it fully tight before it started spinning with no in or out. I saw Rickster991 had the same issue and worked around it by shortening the screw and pinning it in. I don't want to do that and have sought guidance from FFR. I understand that it is an old-line GM part that has been used for many years, so I guess I just don't know what the problem could be.

I am also not sure I don't have an issue with the cam. Mine has large weld lumps about 1/4" from the cam lobes. I am not sure how much flat space the springs need on the cam track. The assembly manual shows larger smooth spaces next to the cam lumps. Awaiting responses.

Thanks, Ralph

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OK, I spent the better part of this afternoon working on the turn signal switch. Felt like giving up a couple times but finally have it working. I think. I used the word "fiddly" in my previous post and this defines the word. It would be easier the next time because I have an idea what works and what doesn't. These are the key takeaways for me:

• File the mating surfaces of the turn signal mounting bracket so it's flat against the chassis bracket and the Delco turn signal. Mine had some bumps from where it was bent and every little bit affects how it aligns.
• Install the middle 1” pillow block to the chassis along with the 1" DD tube that goes through it and the pillow block by the turn signal. The angle that makes is part of getting the right centering of the shaft through the turn signal.
• A stock of washers is needed between the chassis bracket holding the turn signal and the pillow block underneath. How many, how thick, etc. will be determined by assembling and taking it apart multiple times (I lost track) to achieve the proper alignment.
• After a whole bunch of experimentation with different washer combinations I was able to get the upper steering shaft properly centered through the turn signal. Slide the cam piece on to check even alignment all around each time. My cam piece was OK BTW. If yours has blobs of extra weld, file it off. No big deal.
• You have to tighten the bolts all the way to see what the actual alignment is. The supplied bolts were too short in my case.
• I got the alignment close with the washer stack. But at least in my case wasn't 100% exact. I was able to fine tune it by loosening the three #10 screws holding the turn signal to the bracket and shifting it just enough. There's a bit of wiggle room there.
• Follow the instructions regarding setting the depth of the cam exactly. I had to read it several times and finally figured it out and now it works.
• I didn't have trouble getting the screw in that holds the arm. Agree it's tight but nothing spun or whatever.

Attachment 217136

Hope this helps and good luck. I think the final result is OK, but I wonder how many builders will be successful with it. Reminds me a little of the door hinges on the truck build. :p

edwardb, thanks from all of us. So, your washers are all under the assembly to lower the bearing? I noticed some of the other posts had many washers above and below the switch and the bracket, and some below the bracket and the bearing. Whatever works is good.

And, I thought I was the only one that gave up my truck build because of those "expletive" door hinges.

Ralph

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Originally Posted by rponfick

edwardb, thanks from all of us. So, your washers are all under the assembly to lower the bearing? I noticed some of the other posts had many washers above and below the switch and the bracket, and some below the bracket and the bearing. Whatever works is good.

And, I thought I was the only one that gave up my truck build because of those "expletive" door hinges.

Ralph

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You could change the washer arrangement if you wanted to change the height of the steering wheel. But you would still have to keep things centered. Also pretty sure you'd have to adjust the angle of the middle 1” pillow block. With the turn signal assembly bracket flat on the chassis mount (as shown in the instructions) it's only going to center with the washers as I described and pictured. I'm OK with the steering wheel in that position. I didn't give up on the truck build. But I definitely had to spend way too much time on the door hinges. A lot like this turn signal.

Its official, I pulled the trigger yesterday and put down the deposit, and have a completion date of November 8th, As stated before my sons and I are booked into the Build school for October 17th - 19th, then we will be at FFR on the 21st for a tour of the facility and finalize the order through any lessons learned at the build school. The boys are very excited to start this adventure.

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Originally Posted by gbranham

Agree on skipping the FFR seat tracks, and you can get roll bar grommets from Mike Everson for $65. Although shipping may equalize the cost. I bought the 11" front brake kit and 13" rear IRS brake setup, and really didn't like the look of it, with larger rear rotors than fronts. It bugged me enough that I ripped it all off and ordered Wilwoods the next day. When you say "Russ Thompson Turn Signal System", who do you plan on getting that from now that Russ has passed? There are a few options here on the forum. As far as the FFR-supplied hydraulic clutch components, I think folks are gun shy to use the kit-supplied Wilwood master cylinder for their clutch, and frequently replace it with a Tilton unit. Not sure about the kit-supplied hydraulic throw out bearing; I went with a cable-driven clutch.

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Good to know about the FFR seat tracks as that was going to be on my order list as well. Have people had issues with the Wilwood master cylinder or is it that they would just rather spend the money on the the Tilton unit which is supposed to be better? I'm planning to get the FFR coyote engine/trans package which comes with the Wilwood master cylinder and a McLeod hydraulic throwout bearing already included.

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Originally Posted by 2nd2none

Good to know about the FFR seat tracks as that was going to be on my order list as well. Have people had issues with the Wilwood master cylinder or is it that they would just rather spend the money on the the Tilton unit which is supposed to be better? I'm planning to get the FFR coyote engine/trans package which comes with the Wilwood master cylinder and a McLeod hydraulic throwout bearing already included.

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Lots of failures with the Wilwood master cylinders, I personally know of at least one that failed right out of the box. A master cylinder is a very simple device and should have a reliability rating of at least 4 or 5 nines and the Wilwoods are not even close. Remember, if the clutch MC fails it's a big PITA to change. If one of the brake MCs fails you have ZERO brakes. There's a link in my signature to a thread on Wilwood failures.

McLeod hydraulic throwout bearings are the bargain basement and prone to failure. I know from personal experience, and they are not easy to change. Again, Tilton is the best.

Fair warning for those who want to change their kit supplied Wilwood MC's to Tiltons with the Mk5 Roadster. One of them won't fit. This is my Mk5 Roadster build with the kit provided Wilwood pedal box. I'm installing a hydraulic clutch and since I had to buy another MC anyway bought one of the Tilton 75 series pieces. Nice enough but check how much larger it is. On the inside MC, the Wilwood just fits under the frame rail. In fact I cheated the mounting holes for the pedal box just a bit so it didn't make hard contact. I'm not sure what mods would be necessary to fit a Tilton in that position, but doesn't look easy. I'm staying out of the argument. Just providing a public service announcement. :o

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1752444804

Hmmmm.... I was all about putting in the Tilton masters, what about mounting the pedal box assembly on the underside of the frame bracket and then extend the length of the triangular dropdown bracket or will that be in the way of the steering column?

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Originally Posted by RobHartley

Hmmmm.... I was all about putting in the Tilton masters, what about mounting the pedal box assembly on the underside of the frame bracket and then extend the length of the triangular dropdown bracket or will that be in the way of the steering column?

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Not sure why you would alter the original design to accommodate the Tiltons? Every action has a reaction. I realize there are some Tilton champions on the board and some highlighted Wilwood failures, but the reality is that they get great reviews on Summit and Amazon and many, including myself, have had them in the past with zero issues. Mileage will vary of course and do what you think is right for your build but keep it all into perspective.

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Originally Posted by RobHartley

Hmmmm.... I was all about putting in the Tilton masters, what about mounting the pedal box assembly on the underside of the frame bracket and then extend the length of the triangular dropdown bracket or will that be in the way of the steering column?

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As already pointed out, nearly every change has consequences. Not in the picture I posted because it was early in the build is the steering column. It's directly under the inside rear corner of the pedal box and would limit how far the pedal box could be moved down. I would recommend waiting until you have your kit and then evaluate at what length you're willing to go to make this change. I didn't post the picture to restart the debate. Only to inform.

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Originally Posted by edwardb

Fair warning for those who want to change their kit supplied Wilwood MC's to Tiltons with the Mk5 Roadster. One of them won't fit. This is my Mk5 Roadster build with the kit provided Wilwood pedal box. I'm installing a hydraulic clutch and since I had to buy another MC anyway bought one of the Tilton 75 series pieces. Nice enough but check how much larger it is. On the inside MC, the Wilwood just fits under the frame rail. In fact I cheated the mounting holes for the pedal box just a bit so it didn't make hard contact. I'm not sure what mods would be necessary to fit a Tilton in that position, but doesn't look easy. I'm staying out of the argument. Just providing a public service announcement. :o

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1752444804

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Try a 76 series Tilton. With banjo fittings it could be flipped upside down.

Attachment 218498

Quote:

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Originally Posted by edwardb

Fair warning for those who want to change their kit supplied Wilwood MC's to Tiltons with the Mk5 Roadster. One of them won't fit. This is my Mk5 Roadster build with the kit provided Wilwood pedal box. I'm installing a hydraulic clutch and since I had to buy another MC anyway bought one of the Tilton 75 series pieces. Nice enough but check how much larger it is. On the inside MC, the Wilwood just fits under the frame rail. In fact I cheated the mounting holes for the pedal box just a bit so it didn't make hard contact. I'm not sure what mods would be necessary to fit a Tilton in that position, but doesn't look easy. I'm staying out of the argument. Just providing a public service announcement. :o

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1752444804

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Originally Posted by Mike.Bray

Try a 76 series Tilton. With banjo fittings it could be flipped upside down.

Attachment 218498

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Just saw this. A Tilton 76 WILL fit...and doesn't have to be turned upside down. That's what I'm using in my Mk5 along with banjo fittings to AN-3 at the inlet. I think that the conflict that Paul encountered is because the 75s are made to use a clamp on reservoir or a push in barb fitting and this area at the inlet (where what appears to be a rubber cap in his photo) is more bulky and what was probably coming into contact with the square tube on the far right. The 75 and 76 are the same internally with the primary difference being that the 76 has 7/16-20 threads at the inlet to accept a banjo fitting which is what I'm using on mine. It will also accept a 7/16-20 O ring fitting with either a barb on AN on the end however I can't speak for how either of those might fit. Two suggestions if you opt to use the 76...(1) on the far right cylinder install the fitting prior to putting the master into place simply because once it's bolted to the pedal box tool access is limited---the other two are easy to access afterward and (2) either screw the upper studs in the pedal box in another 1/4" or cut them off that amount because you won't be able to get that bolt on with the masters seated on the pedal box.

Cheers,
Jeff

I was able to install Tilton MCs on my MkV, it is a tight fit but will work! Not the best picture but you'll see the two I have installed, both 3/4" for the brakes. I have since installed a 13/16" Tilton for the clutch.
Attachment 218682

So (2) 3/4" 75's and a 13/16 75 to make the switch to Tilton?

*ahem*

76s per Jeff Kleiner's post.

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Originally Posted by rickshank

So (2) 3/4" 75's and a 13/16 75 to make the switch to Tilton?

*ahem*

76s per Jeff Kleiner's post.

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Not necessarily. I ended up with 0.75" on the front and a 1" on the rear.

You can contact Tilton with your brake information and they will help you size them.

My boys and I attended the Build School this past week, what a blast, and we definitely learned a lot, it was great to actually work on the roadster and gained a lot of tips and tricks(can't wait to leverage some of this new found information). On Tuesday we toured FFR and completed the build order for my MkV
Attachment 220617Attachment 220618

I installed 13/16" Tilton 75 for the clutch and 3/4" Tiltons for the front and rear brakes and they do fit in a MK V....barely.

Attachment 220662

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Originally Posted by Aleinsteingenius

I installed 13/16" Tilton 75 for the clutch and 3/4" Tiltons for the front and rear brakes and they do fit in a MK V....barely.

Attachment 220662

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Yes, I saw that, tight, but definitely possible. I have been following your build, nice work! Thanks!

Paid in full today, just waiting for the invoice so I can forward to Transport Canada along with my "Declaration to Import Motor Vehicle Parts" to get the import process going.

Mike Forte has shipped my engine (BP347, Pro Flow 4 EFI, TKX 2.87 / .68, Cobra Air Cleaner & Valve Covers)! At this rate it will arrive before the kit, (as I am still waiting on Transport Canada).
Attachment 222145

Very nice Cobra engine.

My engine arrived today! Yay! Now if I only had a chassis to put it in... Transport Canada has approved the import, and Cunningham Transport has me on the list for delivery in mid January for my Canadian Kit delivery. My Canadian Completion kit is somewhere in the works at FFR but they have not given a definitive statement as when it will ship.
Attachment 222936

My kit arrived today in Blaine WA. Its now sitting in the garage and basement ready to start inventory. My Canadian Completion kit (suspension, steering, IRS, wheels, fuel tank, and brakes) should be arriving in a couple of weeks. Let the fun begin.
Attachment 224645Attachment 224646Attachment 224647Attachment 224648

Congratulations! Now the fun can really begin.

Some assembly required lol

Congrats! Now the "It ain't going to get done by itself" program begins!

Congrats Rob! All I can say is - enjoy the process! And all the little things we learned in class will come in handy :D

Rob

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Originally Posted by cv2065

some highlighted Wilwood failures, but the reality is that they get great reviews on Summit and Amazon and many, including myself, have had them in the past with zero issues.

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5 out of 6 people report they enjoy playing Russian Roulette:D

My youngest son Evan and I completed inventory the inventory yesterday, short a couple of carpet pieces, carbon fiber dash, passenger side roll bar, wiring harness and body mount brackets, so overall pretty good. My Canadian Completion kit with front and rear suspension, pedal box, brakes (everything: reservoirs, lines, rotors, e-brake, etc...) steering components, IRS center section, gas tank, drive shaft, wheels... should be here in a couple of weeks. Body should be on the buck later today.

Re-assembled the body buck and separated the body from the chassis yesterday afternoon, working with both Eric and Evan (my two adult sons) it was easy to separate and get on the buck. I am going to start drilling panels in prep for powder coating as it may be a couple of weeks before the Canadian Completion kit arrives, especially with the snow out east, FFR had a snow day today - not sure if we'll get any in the Vancouver area this winter...
Attachment 224986
Attachment 224748Attachment 224749

The boys and I got into panel work this weekend, rear cockpit, trunk sides and some of the footwells are fitted and drilled
Attachment 224994Attachment 224995Attachment 224996Attachment 224997Attachment 224998

FYI. Where the manual says, "Do not rivet." They should add do not drill or rivet. Do not rivet means another panel will overlap that panel. Matching up holes in something that has already been drilled can be a challenge.