New owner of 818r; is the platform dead? Did I make a mistake?

Hey all,
I'm picking up my 818r next week. I got it planning to do a season of NASA racing. Good afternoon through all the archives here it seems like no one has ever actually solved the oiling issue. Is this a dead platform and I am sure to blow up the engine? There's been almost no new posts on here in the last 3 or 4 years. Has everyone just given up on this thing?
Sounds like even people who went the full dry sump route had problems too? Dry sump would really push my budget but if it's needed ...

Mine has a fresh rebuild 2.5 20g turbo STI drivetrain with killer bee pan, but it seems like that won't be enough. My local track I usually pull 1.2 g's sustained in corners on 200 tread wear tires with no downforce in street cars, so I have no doubt I'll be pushing 1.4 and above with the aero on this thing.
Is it just a ticking time bomb?
Feeling discouraged.

Wet sumps have some advantages imo. All the plumbing involved with a dry sump system is a potential point of leakage, not to speak of complicating the engine bay and making maintenance just another level more difficult. If the arctangent plate had been available when I built my engine, I would have probably incorporated it into my build. I think the combination of the arctangent plat with the swinging pickup would be a great place to start with a wet sump system.

I know it's not what you want to here, but I fixed my oiling issues with a Honda K24 engine. :p

I just did my 4th track-day this year in my R. It's kind of a R/S; it's at S ride height and not quite R springs. My donor was an '06 STI and the engine is all stock. No oiling issues that I know of. I have a warning light set at 25psi and it never lights on the track. It flickers coming back thru the pits at idle, but that's it. I run RT-660 tw200 tires.
I've read all the posts of "must haves"; AWIC, dry sump, etc. Haven't needed to so far.
Maybe I'm just slow, lol. For reference, I usually run mid pack in the intermediate group. I'm within 1.5 sec a lap of my best time in my Cayman.

And yes the forum is dead/dying. Folks seem to be selling their cars. I was disappointed after I bought my (previously started) kit in late 2021 to find that Factory Five orphaned the 818.
I think its pretty great as a base for a track/race car. Plenty of aftermarket parts and community. Still some expertise here that can be accessed.

Confession first, I am not a Subaru fan, my daily drivers have not met my durability expectations. Like Hobby, I am engineering my way around that in my 818 chassis.
A tangent durability observation is the (somewhat) new Subaru BRZ and Toyota GR86 suffering major engine failures with track-day cars. Oil starvation is an issue clouded by excessive silicone sealant breaking loose and compromising oil flow. Nonetheless, cornering G force is a factor.
I have road raced V8 engines and oil sloshing was addressed with dry sumps. The oil sump was relatively narrow.
A flat four oil reserve can exist from cam cover to cam cover sloshing side to side.
Do not ignor the transaxle oil issue where static pitch angle shifts the sump volume forward and away from the trany bits.
Keep in mind the 818 was presented as a donor/kit price point, not an engineering tour de force.
jim

I am in the process of finishing up my R build and gearing up for my first track day soon. I have an EJ207 engine, 6 spd JDM trans, e85, AWIC, IAG baffle and oil pickup tube. I have 200 tread wear tires plus aero so it will be interesting to see how things hold up. I have my oil temp and pressure gauge on the dash to try and keep an eye on it. Keeping oil pressure and everything overall cool is the name of the game for Subarus.

Let's stay in touch as we are both getting these going soon. I'll pm you my info

I have tracked my 818R alot. I probably drive 8/10 of what the car is capable of. I have a dry sump scavenge system with two coolers (one in the scoop, and one in the rear with air ducted from the other scoop) and a spintrix unit prior to the oil reservoir, which holds about 10 quarts of Redline Race 50wt oil. EJ257 with Speed Density Tune. You can see some of my track day specs on my page. I also run an AWIC. Running hard, the AWIC supply water is about 10-15F above ambient, with the IAT about 15F higher than that. I have only had one instance of timing being pulled, on a 95F day. I have a 6spd with the built in oil pump which circulates oil through a small tube in shell marine cooler that uses some of the AWIC water (after the intake) to cool the transmission fluid. The trans peaks at 225-240 at the top in the back with an IR. I only run 20 minute sessions. I typically see engine oil temps around 200F and the engine temp around 190, sometimes higher if it is in the 90's. Gator "solved" the issue with the dry sump (we run the same one) by adding a smaller third scavenge leg (half size). Since going to that I have had zero oil issues. I got 67 heat cycles out of my last set of Federal Tires and brakes typically last the season or more. It took a while to sort it out, but I feel confident about the car now, and can focus on driving. BTW, I drove my friend's Cayman back to back with my car and was 2 seconds faster in the 818R. I still have a lot to learn in the driving area, but that is what this is all about for me. I specifically wanted a car with no "nannies" that I could learn in. At the track, no one brakes later than I do, but I do get beat on the straights by the 600hp Camaros, Vettes and Mustangs. Some of that is me still learning. Happy to help however I can.

If you are worried about losing oil pressure in turns or braking, you can always put an accumulator on it. You can get them in one or two quart capacities.

I'm with JR on this. The car was somewhat under engineered and was offered at a reasonable price. I'm saddened that rather than further development they orphaned it. I tackled the engineering shortfalls as best I could with my limited skill set. The fuel filler neck was in the end a minor niggle. It did get me into acetylene welding which I have always wanted to do. The improperly angled transmission was potentially a bigger problem and I dealt with it. Thanks to Gator for identifying that one. I think their optional big brake kit could have been done better. The tendency to starve for fuel in a low skinny wide tank with no baffles, well some have tried Holley Hydramat. I chose a swirl pot. I also doubted the air supply to an A2A intercooler and, having lowered the transmission, the FFR sheetmetal wasn't even going to work. I went AWIC. I am disappointed that bad welds were present in the front lower shock mount brackets. That's just bad manufacturing process and QC. I'm hoping that doesn't show up elsewhere later. All that said, I love this car.

The Subaru oiling issues are pretty well known and have been addressed by aftermarket manufacturers with some degree of success, Killer Bee, IAG and others. For the street, probably plenty good enough. In a sweeping corner on the track, I think they are still vulnerable to having enough oil wind up in a cylinder head to affect the supply to the pump. Once again, Gator to the rescue. Having addressed the wet sump problems with a dry sump installation, he didn't leave it at that. He identified that there were still oiling issues which he addressed by adding a scavenge pump section and using that to drain the heads. I followed his lead on that one too. Yes, it's complicated, heavy, and expensive and I'm glad I did it.

Ed

Thanks for the kudos!
Issues with the 818R f you are going to do wheel to wheel racing:
1) Broomstick test. If you are tall you won't pass. If you are shorter than 6' you will be ok. I modded mine to make it a full halo cage like a Lotus 2-Eleven GT4 car.

2) Transmission tilt. If you don't lower the tail you will burn it up. For racing you should also add a transmission pump to all 5 speeds and the 6 speeds that don't have internal pumps, and a cooler with a ducted fan.

3) I use a FMIC, but an AWIC can be made to work too.

4) Oiling. 3 stage dry sump using the oem oil pump, or RCM dry sump system, or Dailey DS. All are expensive and complex. If I were doing it again I'd try the new IAG Competition pan and pickup first. I had the Killer Bee on a another track Subaru, it didn't do the job and I spun a bearing. The IAG Competition pan is deeper so you may have to raise the front of the engine, but you will want to do that anyway to get more transmission tilt. https://www.iagperformance.com/iag-e...kaAlPIEALw_wcB

5) Fueling. You will need a fuel cell with internal collector, or an external surge tank/pump (Radium Engineering). Fuel cell is highly recommended for racing.

6) Data logger and log sensors in everything liquid or air!

If you know anybody looking for an R mine is for sale, not because I don't love driving it, but I have health issues that have taken me out of the driver seat.

Attachment 205296

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ght=track+days

I'm having fun track days with my 818S! My South Bend Stage 2 Endurance clutch arrives tomorrow. In negotiations with a couple of companies to turn my gas tank into a fuel cell with bladder and foam.

No plans to wheel-to-wheel race it. For that, I do 24 Hours of Lemons racing. My understanding of most wheel-to-wheel race sanctioning bodies is a tube frame chassis is automatically placed in the top classes, so you would be racing against $300,000+ cars.

Im finally putting my r back together... how short of a trans mount/how tall of an engine mounts did you need to get the angle right? how many degrees do you think you need?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator

Thanks for the kudos!
Issues with the 818R f you are going to do wheel to wheel racing:
1) Broomstick test. If you are tall you won't pass. If you are shorter than 6' you will be ok. I modded mine to make it a full halo cage like a Lotus 2-Eleven GT4 car.

2) Transmission tilt. If you don't lower the tail you will burn it up. For racing you should also add a transmission pump to all 5 speeds and the 6 speeds that don't have internal pumps, and a cooler with a ducted fan.

3) I use a FMIC, but an AWIC can be made to work too.

4) Oiling. 3 stage dry sump using the oem oil pump, or RCM dry sump system, or Dailey DS. All are expensive and complex. If I were doing it again I'd try the new IAG Competition pan and pickup first. I had the Killer Bee on a another track Subaru, it didn't do the job and I spun a bearing. The IAG Competition pan is deeper so you may have to raise the front of the engine, but you will want to do that anyway to get more transmission tilt. https://www.iagperformance.com/iag-e...kaAlPIEALw_wcB

5) Fueling. You will need a fuel cell with internal collector, or an external surge tank/pump (Radium Engineering). Fuel cell is highly recommended for racing.

6) Data logger and log sensors in everything liquid or air!

If you know anybody looking for an R mine is for sale, not because I don't love driving it, but I have health issues that have taken me out of the driver seat.

Attachment 205296

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I modified my trans mount, frame, and rear shock tower brace to raise the motor and lower the trans tail. See this link to my build thread and look at posts 60, 68, and 71. I followed Gator’s and Hobby’s suggestion on this.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...8R-Build/page2

If you have a 6spd from an STi, I wouldn't worry about it. I have about 2 deg nose down vs the stock ~5deg nose up. I have good trans temps, no engine oiling issues. The STi pan and 6spd make a lot of difference. I'm not doing w2w racing but do about 6-8 track days a year.