Mounting Tremec TKX question - have I done something bad?

Just a silly question to try and put my overacting imagination to rest.
This afternoon, I was mounting the TKX transmission to my Coyote (Tremec bell house) with my neighbour. It’s a MacLeod 1400 internal clutch.
It went in easily and kind of stopped with a half an inch to go.
Took it out.
We did note that the shaft of the TKX was about 185mm and the depth of the pilot bearing hole from the back of the bell house was 205mm - sorry metric but basically the TKX forward shaft just under an inch shorter than the available depth. We feel about 2//3 of the spline is engaged once mounted

Question 1 is therefore is that normal? I’m not even sure the tip of the TKX shaft reaches the pilot bearing.

Anyway we started again and with a bit of jiggling (nothing forceful) we got to about 3/8 of an inch. We put in the bolts and very lightly pulled it in, half a turn at a time on bolts while wiggling the TKX. I kinda wanted to abort and by the time I went away to read up my engineer neighbour had it up against the bell house.

I am confident he went lightly with the bolts but

Question 2 have we done something really bad or terrible that I should address before we put the engine in the car?

With the benefit of hindsight, I’m assuming the clutch alignment was slightly out. I don’t know how to engage it with the Macleod internal clutch while putting it in. I’m hoping that it we will have kind of forced it into alignment or it will do so once we engage the clutch down the track? If I were to do it again, I would do a practice run without the bell house (and keep my engineer neighbour from going on without me).

Anyway would appreciate advice and hopefully some reassurance…..for the record the driveshaft end is turning when we turn the crankshaft.

A quick test might be to remove the bolts, pull the trans back, and slide it forward. At least this will give you some idea of how much it may be forced to fit. Or pull it all the way apart and reinstall. By yourself for both tests.

Hey JP!

Haven't heard from you in a while, happy to see you are still at it. Had plans to drop by and see you in a couple of months time whilst in Mooloolaba. However plans have changed, and now going further north to Port Douglas, putting a visit a bit out of reach. Will be heading to Mooloolaba next year, so hopefully meet then.

Keep eating that elephant, and don't hesitate to give me a buzz if you need any help.

Cheers,

Nige

You should never pull a trans in with bolts. I think you figured that out. Unless your friend got aggressive, you are probably OK. I would double check it like CraigS said. Better to have peace of mind.

It was most likely clutch alignment. I am not sure how you would do it with an internal hydraulic. On a standard clutch I use a clamp on the fork to disengage the clutch, and they will usually pop in that last bit with some wiggling.

You are not getting engagement into the pilot bearing. Are you able to insert the plastic alignment tool and feel it "pop" into the bearing? I installed a few McLeod RST and had a bear of a time until I spoke to a McLeod tech that suggested I push up on the plastic alignment tool when bolting down pressure plate. This did the trick. Are you using a clutch fork or an internal hydraulic TOB? If you are using a fork you can try and engage the clutch to allow movement in clutch disk that may help you get it in.

I pretty much gave up on clutch alignment tools. W/ the PP and disc on but very loosely, I center the disc by comparing it's outer edge w/ the machining on the flywheel. There is usually some type of ridge forming the edge of the flywheel engagement surface that forms a circle maybe 1/8" larger than the outer diameter of the disc. Center the disc using this as a reference and tighten the bolts. Also before trying to mate the trans stick the drive shaft in the back and put it in 4th gear. This lets you rotate the driveshaft which will rotate the input shaft and help getting the splines lined up w/ the disc. Also #2. As you are doing all the wiggling, the key to it fitting together is keeping the front edge of the bellhousing perfectly parallel w/ the engine plate on the back of the block.

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Originally Posted by Avalanche325

You should never pull a trans in with bolts. I think you figured that out. Unless your friend got aggressive, you are probably OK. I would double check it like CraigS said. Better to have peace of mind.

It was most likely clutch alignment. I am not sure how you would do it with an internal hydraulic. On a standard clutch I use a clamp on the fork to disengage the clutch, and they will usually pop in that last bit with some wiggling.

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This is what I did.

I struggled with the initial install, same sticking. Measured bellhousing runout to ensure it was within tolerance. It was, but good to check that off the list.

Next time I installed the transmission, I actuated the fork and the transmission popped right into place. all good ever since.

The issue is the alignment of the disc with the pilot bearing. Two good bits of advice in the above comments, 1) hold up slightly on the alignment tool as you start snugging the bolts, and 2) visually look at the edge of the clutch disc all the way around the outside of the pressure plate.

The problem with the plastic clutch alignment tool is they are not precise as an input shaft because they are cheap to manufacture. The best tool is an old input shaft, but not many people have a Tremec input shaft lying around. As Rich and some others have said you have to lift slightly on the clutch pilot tool to raise the disc just a bit and then snug down the pressure plate evenly. When you are done the pilot tool should slide in and out with no drag at all.

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Originally Posted by ggunter

The problem with the plastic clutch alignment tool is they are not precise as an input shaft because they are cheap to manufacture. The best tool is an old input shaft, but not many people have a Tremec input shaft lying around.

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Agreed. I bought this one a few years ago. Not expensive to get a good alignment.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...+5ba296614a6c1

$49.00 is a heck of a deal when it saves you $1000.00 of aggravation from fighting with a trans that won't go in. :cool:

If you have $$$ to throw out for a one time usage. I've had good luck using a socket on a long extension, then look at the edge of the disc.

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Originally Posted by ggunter

The problem with the plastic clutch alignment tool is they are not precise as an input shaft because they are cheap to manufacture. The best tool is an old input shaft, but not many people have a Tremec input shaft lying around. As Rich and some others have said you have to lift slightly on the clutch pilot tool to raise the disc just a bit and then snug down the pressure plate evenly. When you are done the pilot tool should slide in and out with no drag at all.

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They also make a universal clutch pilot tool "kit" that works really well. The tool consists of a shaft with a small diameter threaded extension at the end. There is also a selection of different diameter pilot bushing plugs. And the final part is a cone shaped sliding piece that fits over the tool and slides. First, select the proper pilot bushing plug to fit the I.D of your pilot bushing and screw it on the end of the tool. Then, with the clutch assembled bout the disc still loose, put the cone on the tool, install the tool into the pilot bushing, and just slide the tapered cone forward. As the cone engages the splined hole in the center of the disc and the cone is pushed forward the taper of the cone centers the disc. One tool for many applications.

Decades ago I bought a clutch alignment tool from Snapon. Man it was a nice tool w/ beautiful machining. Turned out all those pieces of steel were heavy so it kind of sagged just like the lose fitting plastic ones do.

Thank you all for your replies.

In answer to some of the issues you have asked about the plastic pilot tool it comes with slips in very easily. There are some fairly cheap universal clutch alignment tools - undoubtedly chinese - at the local shops (rural Australia) not sure if cheap means they won't work well.....
Maybe I could use the transmission itself as a centre-ing tool - can't quite picture it but maybe possible

I had centred the bellhouse - I guess I'll have to do that again if I take it off and on ??

It is an internal hydraulic clutch - anyone have ideas how to actuate it to engage to clutch as I push it in - like many seem to do with the external one?

Finally, before I engage in a weekend of probable frustration and swearing, what is really the worst thing that can happen if I do nothing??? - remember it kind of wiggled on with light tightening of the bolts around the clock.

Sorry, that might be a really dumb question but I'm no mechanic or engineer. Sometimes perfect is the enemy of good!

If you think it's going to bother you and there's a slight chance something is not aligned correctly, buy yourself a good alignment tool and as Craig said, pull it apart and reinstall. If anything, just to give yourself peace of mind. Now is the time to do it. You shouldn't have to find the concentricity of the bell again as long as the dowels don't move, but with the issue you are having, I'd probably shore that measurement up again as well. Doesn't take very long.

Can't help on the internal clutch as I've never had one, but you'll get it worked out.

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Originally Posted by JPPT

It is an internal hydraulic clutch - anyone have ideas how to actuate it to engage to clutch as I push it in - like many seem to do with the external one?

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You could in theory actuate the internal TOB if you connected a master cylinder but I don't think you would want to as they have very limited travel and you risk over-extending it.

I had the same assembly issue when I first stabbed my transmission. I measured and measured and could not figure it out. Finally realized the clutch disc was not perfectly centered. What happened is my clutch alignment tool tilted down slightly moving the clutch disc off center. Whether the alignment tool is metal or plastic, the pilot bearing just isn't a lot of support for the overhung load and gravity works against you here.

What I did was loosen the pressure plate and retighten it while holding the end of the alignment tool to keep it from dropping so that the clutch disc was centered. Then my tranny slid right in smooth as silk.

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Originally Posted by Mike.Bray

What I did was loosen the pressure plate and retighten it while holding the end of the alignment tool to keep it from dropping so that the clutch disc was centered. Then my tranny slid right in smooth as silk.

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This is your solution, perfectly articulated. Do this, and report back. Bet you'll have a great report for us!

Greg

I had a similar issue. I pulled it all apart and started over. It slid right on the second time. I think it was the clutch binding, but I'm not sure.

Sorry to take a while to reply.
Thanks for all your advice.
I took it all apart. Turns out my neighbour probably did go a little hard because the splines on the clutch plate were all slightly "notched" on one half of the axle hub. Good thing I followed your advice and checked because the clutch plate wouldn't slide on the input shaft because of these.
I was able to smooth the notched splines out just with a handheld screwdriver.
Then I put it back on following everyones' advice:
1) bought an alignment tool which turned out to be the wrong one, so back to basics:
2) held the plastic alignment tool up as high as I could before lightly tightening the clutch plate on
3) Checked for an even rim size around the outer rim of the clutch plate in relation to the flywheel. I don't have a ridge on my flywheel, but I used some empty dowel pin holes as reference points
4) slight wiggle and then it just clunked in
Let you know in a few months once I finally get the thing to go-kart!

Next problem is getting enough downwards tilt on the engine/transmission to get it into the frame. My current engine lift brackets won't allow enough backward tilt for the transmission to get down the transmission tunnel - even if I stand full body weight on the back of the Tremec with the whole setup suspended. I'm sure the answer will be in the forum somewhere.
Thanks everyone.

Elevate the back of the car higher than the front.

Glad you got it worked out. Not sure what you mean by straightening out the spline with a screwdriver? Did you take any pics there? Regarding installation, as was said, get the car up higher in the rear with the key being a good load leveler (not Harbor Freight), so you can get it to angle properly.

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Originally Posted by JPPT

Next problem is getting enough downwards tilt on the engine/transmission to get it into the frame. My current engine lift brackets won't allow enough backward tilt for the transmission to get down the transmission tunnel - even if I stand full body weight on the back of the Tremec with the whole setup suspended. I'm sure the answer will be in the forum somewhere.
Thanks everyone.

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Tail high, nose down with a leveler being your BFF ;)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1706623238

Ten minutes from floor to installed working alone.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by cv2065

the key being a good load leveler (not Harbor Freight), so you can get it to angle properly.

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Like this one. I was able to remove and reinstall my engine using this leveler by myself. I removed the handle and adjusted it with a socket on a speedhandle wrench.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

Tail high, nose down with a leveler being your BFF ;)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1706623238

Ten minutes from floor to installed working alone.

Jeff

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That engine hoist looks a bit more capable than most.