Why All the Negativity and Snarky Reponses Recently?

Let me get on my soapbox for just a few minutes...

Over the past few weeks, I've seen several examples of condescending remarks aimed at questions that to some may seem obvious, but to the person asking the question, not at all obvious. I asked a lot of questions when I first came to this community that were always answered respectfully, no matter how simple they may have seemed or how many times they may have been addressed previously. That's what makes this community so different from other car forums. I'm simply asking that we, as a community, remember what makes this virtual place what it is and give the new builders the same respect that we all received when we were new to this fantastic community.

Stepping down ...

Dave

I'm glad you posted this. A while ago another forum that I liked fell apart because a few miserable losers used it as a megaphone for their unhappiness. Let's not let that happen here.

There's only one or two, luckily, the rest of y'all are awesome. I never go to the other place for this exact reason - so far we're still doing very well thanks to our moderators!

But yes, I have to try and ignore a post or two each week - a small price to pay nowadays. I see far worse on FB and have unfollowed so many folks!

Dave, I agree. There are many veterans of FF on here and a lot of rookies and some of us in between. There are no stupid questions period. We have all been there where we just could not figure something out and needed help. The solution may seem obvious to some but it’s not to everyone. Let’s make sure to keep FF and this forum as it has been, a welcoming family. Sure Jeff and Jeff may get snarky with each other but that’s just all the paint fumes they breath in.;)

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Originally Posted by KDubU

… Sure Jeff and Jeff may get snarky with each other but that’s just all the paint fumes they breath in.;)

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Ha! You don’t know the half of it—-you should hear what we say to each other in private:p Add Ken Pike or Frankeeski Maslowski into the mix and stand back :eek:

Jeff

I'm so glad you spoke up on this, as maintaining a friendly environment is so critical to the health and value of the boards. If anyone is scared to ask a question, this forum becomes useless other than as a clunky searchable database. I am sure I'm not the only to feel that, if not for the existence and welcoming nature of this forum (and the involvement of some serious experts), I never would have had the cajones to place my kit order. It gets picked up from FFR on its way to me in 6 days! (I'm a bit giddy about that)

It seems as though these types of remarks are standard today in all areas. I totally agree that they are not welcome here. This is somewhat of an escape for many of us from the daily hub-bub of this type of discussion. I have built and worked on so many cars over the years I've lost count, but still issues and problems arise that I haven't encountered before. This place provides an unbelievable sounding board for both experienced and novice builders. No question is to insignificant even if it has been discussed numerous times or covered in the manual. Let's keep the tone down with solid answers and support for those of us who have made the effort to try and build one of these cars. I grant the floor to -----

For those that are feeling a little cranky, perhaps listen to some John Denver in the background while you compose your post.

All the while imagining driving your ice-cool car along some country roads. How could you possibly be anything other than chilled.

Remember the Golden Rule

Yes! Yes!

I have been a bit dismayed at the recent trends myself,…so my two cents worth,…worth less with inflation. :rolleyes:
This is supposed to be a fun experience.
This forum has always (well almost always :)) taken the high road and exhibited exceptional respect and professionalism.
New folks are joining the family every day. I pray that we will all strive to continue treat each other with the same respect, kindness, and professionalism that has made this forum so wonderful, and valuable for generations now.
It’s up to us. We can tolerate bad behavior and things will deteriorate.
Or, we can continue to approach this with a kind, helpful, and respectful attitude. So many have done it in the past, …my sincerest appreciation for all that have given so generously and kindly over the years.
No reason we can’t continue the legacy.
Just my opinion for what little it’s worth.

Remember, if it’s not fun, you’re not doing it right! :cool:

I’ve been in your shoes and that’s why I don’t bother posting much anymore

Papa - Thank you for this thread!

It seems many threads/posts start out with good intentions, but than they go astray.

I'm a new guy here and to be straight up front, I got caught up in the negativity of some threads in the past couple of weeks and I regret it. While I believe there is room for improvement from both myself and FFR, I've since been avoiding posting most anything to avoid falling into the trap. At this point, I deleted a lot of my posts and I mostly just use PM's to not accidentally set myself up in the public forum's.

That said, I am a person of limited means and this forum and the understood support from the community was a big part of the reason I chose to spend my hard earned dollars on one of these kits over other options. However, I have started to second guess my decision.

EDIT - To be fair, some of my second guessing is also coming from FFR. My pre-kit ready experience hasn't been the best and this predates the system changeover by a couple of months.

I know that there are many seasoned builders here who have provided first rate information, but there are others who believe that us new folks are supposed to learn by osmosis. Maybe they are just tired of answering the same questions, which they likely had at some point back in time. There also seems to be more differences of opinion and personal jostling between some members than support.

Based on your comments, it sounds like this is not the way this forum has always been. I am hopeful this thread will have a positive impact on this forum and my purchasing decision.

Thanks again, Robert.

To be honest, I haven't noticed a big change in the tone of the majority of the responses on this forum, and I'm on here a lot. Aside from the usual couple that feel compelled to be clever and post sometimes snide remarks. (There are settings to ignore users if it really bothers you...) Maybe that means I'm one of the ones this is directed towards? Who knows. I agree there are no bad questions and forum members should feel free to post questions and not be afraid of the responses. But I also don't think it's wrong to point out where they might have found the answer in the build manual, or missed something in the build manual, or it's a question that's asked frequently and post links to previous threads. Often also with directions on how to do a search. Done respectfully of course. For me anyway, I'd rather find an answer quickly by seeing if it's been asked before (or in the manual) instead of asking and waiting for responses. And you may or may not get a correct or best answer. I say this as one like many that started with essentially zero knowledge back with my first Mk3 Roadster and posted lots of questions. I appreciated help, but I also appreciated responses that pointed me in the direction of how I could help myself. Certainly never took it personally. More could be said, but I'll leave it at that.

Paul - I was going to send a PM. But since I posted publicly I should respond publicly as I am not sure if your post is in light of mine or just the thread in general.

If it is because of my post, I was not pointing to you or anyone in particular. I believe it goes without saying that you and many others provide outstanding support to the community. As suggested, I will consider using the ignore function once I know who to ignore. But until then, I don't want to possibly miss valuable information.

If it is about the thread in general, I believe by the number of thanks and likes to Papa's post, there may be an underlying issue - but again I am new here and mostly an observer.

I do believe one of the causes of folks like myself asking the same questions or not being able to locate the information is the search function - which may lead to frustration to both the person asking the question and the person responding. Maybe it is just me, but I can almost never find anything specific. I usually have to broaden my search to the point where there are hundreds of threads and posts to read through to find what I am looking for. When I do find it, I always copy it or bookmark it for future reference. That said, maybe I expect Google like mind reading (though I've actually used Google to find a post at times). Maybe a thread on How to Search the forum or more stickies on frequently asked questions might be helpful!

Either way, thanks to many of you for the inspiration and information. Respectfully, Robert.

I have been on the butt end of some snarky comments when I was starting the build. But the more that I got into it the more I realized I was asking horrible questions that no one can really identify what I am asking. So not so much as snarky but more frustrated. I have since changed the way I have asked so people can help me. I really do think we need a sticky thread "how to ask a question 101".

All questions need to be prefaced with what are you using to build your kit (this is the pitfall I fell in) engine, trans, rear-end etc that are near the area of question. Pictures are a must if you are trying to get point A to connect to point B. The answers are only going to be as complete as the question asked.

Without this I don't take the remarks as snarky but frustrated that the experienced builders can't help, because I am not giving them a lot to go on to answer the question.

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Originally Posted by Nigel Allen

For those that are feeling a little cranky, perhaps listen to some John Denver in the background while you compose your post.

All the while imagining driving your ice-cool car along some country roads. How could you possibly be anything other than chilled.

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Oh my... listening to John Denver would make me cranky! HAHAHA.. Perhaps some Elton John or Kitaro..

I'm good at asking dumb questions, but that's kind of what the forum is for. The overall vibe on here and the fb page is amazing compared to most hobby forums. That being said, I can think of a few on here that don't seem to be as forgiving to what they would consider a "dumb question".

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Originally Posted by racingandfishing

...I do believe one of the causes of folks like myself asking the same questions or not being able to locate the information is the search function - which may lead to frustration to both the person asking the question and the person responding. Maybe it is just me, but I can almost never find anything specific. I usually have to broaden my search to the point where there are hundreds of threads and posts to read through to find what I am looking for. When I do find it, I always copy it or bookmark it for future reference. That said, maybe I expect Google like mind reading (though I've actually used Google to find a post at times). Maybe a thread on How to Search the forum or more stickies on frequently asked questions might be helpful!...

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Searching is sometimes discussed, and hints provided. I think everyone agrees the built-in search engine in the forum is not very useful. I stopped using it years ago. Google works infinitely better. There are variations, but this is what I do.

• Type “site thefactoryfiveforum.com /search terms” (without the quotation marks and replacing search terms with whatever you’re searching for) from a Google prompt or the URL bar in your browser. Note you can use multiple search terms.
• Hit enter and you’ll get a list of links to threads and posts in the forum which match. Click and they will open.
• You can go back and forth from the search results and forum and cover a lot of ground quite quickly.

I frequently use this function when answering questions and want to provide link(s) with more details or something that was discussed previously. I typically can get those links very quickly. Of course I also use it for my own builds too.

I quit trying to post a build log due to a couple of people jumping in telling me I could not do what I wanted to do, the kit was not the right one for me, and I should go get another car.

Rocking the status quo seems to get me a lot of grief. I have spent 55 years building car related stuff (most of the time for other people). I like to think I learned some things along the way, but I do not mind keeping it to myself. I just wish I could stop biting my tongue. It does not feel good! :D

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Originally Posted by edwardb

Searching is sometimes discussed, and hints provided. I think everyone agrees the built-in search engine in the forum is not very useful. I stopped using it years ago. Google works infinitely better. There are variations, but this is what I do.

• Type “site thefactoryfiveforum.com /search terms” (without the quotation marks and replacing search terms with whatever you’re searching for) from a Google prompt or the URL bar in your browser. Note you can use multiple search terms.
• Hit enter and you’ll get a list of links to threads and posts in the forum which match. Click and they will open.
• You can go back and forth from the search results and forum and cover a lot of ground quite quickly.

I frequently use this function when answering questions and want to provide link(s) with more details or something that was discussed previously. I typically can get those links very quickly. Of course I also use it for my own builds too.

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^^ This ^^

I’ve posted this search “hint” several times because I have found it very helpful!

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Originally Posted by mburger

^^ This ^^

I’ve posted this search “hint” several times because I have found it very helpful!

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This actually is a sticky in the welcome and introductions page. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...yFiveForum-com

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Originally Posted by rthomas98

This actually is a sticky in the welcome and introductions page. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...yFiveForum-com

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Yes, I’m aware. But it’s only been a sticky just over a year now.

So Paul posts detailed instructions on how to perform this search using Google.
I simply affirm his post, and give a compliment, only for you to quote me, to inform me that this is a sticky.

Why?

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Originally Posted by mburger

Yes, I’m aware. But it’s only been a sticky just over a year now.

So Paul posts detailed instructions on how to perform this search using Google.
I simply affirm his post, and give a compliment, only for you to quote me, to inform me that this is a sticky.

Why?

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Just for those that might not know. Didn't mean any ill will.

I hope I speak for the many "novices" who rely on this forum to help navigate through the sometimes difficult and illogical issues that come up during the build. This forum gives us the confidence to know we can get through just about any issue and with the help of some incredible experts who give their time freely and without any compensation, we know we can end up driving an incredible car we built ourselves. Without these experts and the new ones that develop as they progress through their builds, many, if not most of us, would be lost and forever regretting our decision to take on this adventure. As novices, we should not abuse the experts who freely weigh in with comments and solutions; and for those of you that think you know better, you comments and views would be appreciated, but there is no need for nasty, belittling comments. The friendly banter is what makes this forum different; let's just keep it friendly. As I get ready to take delivery, I don't want to loose the opportunity to to obtain the help from the many individuals that give me the confidence to persevere with this project.

David...

This forum is a big part why I have this hobby "addiction" and should never be compromised.

Thanks Papa Dave for raising the issue, which I think is worthwhile for everyone who values the forum to think about and be aware of. Although a first-time builder, I've spent a lot of time on the forum and value both the information and community it represents quite a bit. I do think of it as a noteworthy exception to just about every other public / online forum I have contact with (and there aren't many for me) ... informative, helpful, and full of the kinds of folks I know I'd have a great time spending time with face to face.

I can't say I've noted a real change in relation to newcomers and 'beginner' questions recently. I do think encouraging self-reliance can be done in a way which is supportive and not off-putting (and is generally done that way). I personally try to do my share of providing answers to 'obvious' questions as folks are starting out, and making the forum a welcoming and encouraging place. (Heck, it's what I know :))

I have noticed a number of cases of regular users of the forum getting their feathers ruffled recently, which I found discouraging. Also a number of threads which seem to have a 'those other builders' feel to them. I think it's personally healthier to focus on similarities with other builders rather than differences. And a good reminder to disengage from any unproductive back and forth. Noted ... but somewhat beside your main point. Thanks again for posting.

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Originally Posted by tonywy

This forum is a big part why I have this hobby "addiction" and should never be compromised.

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So true

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner

Ha! You don’t know the half of it—-you should hear what we say to each other in private:p Add Ken Pike or Frankeeski Maslowski into the mix and stand back :eek:

Jeff

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Oh… to be a fly on THAT wall!

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Originally Posted by steno

Oh… to be a fly on THAT wall!

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It would make you blush Sten....... Poor Hank. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Nigel Allen

For those that are feeling a little cranky, perhaps listen to some John Denver in the background while you compose your post.

All the while imagining driving your ice-cool car along some country roads. How could you possibly be anything other than chilled.

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Done it!

https://youtu.be/ZTNh2acJ-lc

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Originally Posted by Papa

Done it!

https://youtu.be/ZTNh2acJ-lc

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G'day Dave,

Thanks for a great video. Any chance you can post a pic of the camera set up on your car and what gear you are using? I am keen to set one up on my car in time for the spring weather (if it ever gets here!).

Cheers,

Nigel

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Originally Posted by Papa

Done it!

https://youtu.be/ZTNh2acJ-lc

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Beautiful!! It makes the hard work worth it!

David...

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Originally Posted by Nigel Allen

G'day Dave,

Thanks for a great video. Any chance you can post a pic of the camera set up on your car and what gear you are using? I am keen to set one up on my car in time for the spring weather (if it ever gets here!).

Cheers,

Nigel

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Nigel,

I have a GoPro Hero 5 camera. You can get pretty much any sort of mounting system you can imagine. I have a clamp for the roll bar and a suction mount I use to mount it on the cowl.

Dave

Thanks everyone for the Search help, greatly appreciated!

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Originally Posted by Papa

Nigel,

I have a GoPro Hero 5 camera. You can get pretty much any sort of mounting system you can imagine. I have a clamp for the roll bar and a suction mount I use to mount it on the cowl.

Dave

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I could be wrong, but I think the Hero 5 was the last version to offer the additional data that could be displayed in the video such as your speed, direction, your route etc.

I have a Gopro hero for my rig as well and love it. I also love my Mavic Mini SE drone. Got some filters for the camera lens and plan on doing some cool shots for my graduation thread. Here is a video of my Roadster when I was trying to figure out what angles and shots I want to do. As for the negativity. There is so little on this forum that if and when I see a little from certain folks I just let it role off. That being said I can remember the first time a certain person was snarky to me on this site and it stayed with me. I got over and no hard feelings once I realized the poster's personality. Itis just hard to gauge folks over the internet https://youtu.be/2nLeljBCf_k

As for the choice of music.... My brother is a recording engineer and an amazing musician. I happen to be an old session drummer before medical school. So we have quite the music catalog of songs we have wrote, composed and recorded together. This song on this video is called " Hilltops". This was a live acoustic recording we did some time ago.
https://youtu.be/_16af8uCQa8

Love both videos! Also the blue on your roadster.
You make a good point about being able to gauge folks over the Internet. You can’t see someone’s smirk as they say something. For me, I tend to joke around too much and usually when I shouldn’t. That’s easily taken the wrong way if you can’t see my face, (which is actually a bonus in this case). I know I have brought this up before, I have a broad range of interests and have been a part of many forums and groups back when having a 14 K modem made you the cool kid on the block. By far, and I have no answer for it, the folks on the Factory 5 forums and I would say more broadly, lovers of these cars are some of the best people to be around.

Just to add to the positive, I get enough smiles from people to keep me up on my Hot Rod. I especially appreciate the forum and the FFR staff. And especially thank you Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LeafM_-PcQ

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