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Hello everyone!
Its been a long time since I've been on the forums....years :(
I have the new house and it came with a garage! So, what are your suggestions? I want to build the perfect space for building a FFR, tools, layout etc... What has been your experience, especially if you have built more than one?
What tools and methods have given you a "clean" & "professional" build?
Cheers!
Rob
Rob,
As long as you have a good complete set of tools (Standard & Metric Sockets & Wrenches) and the ability to get around the car then you should be good to go.
You will also need to get a Pop-Rivet Gun, Rivet-Nut Tool, and at least 30-50 1/8" Cleco Fasteners to tackle the aluminum pans.
A low profile long-reach floor jack, four tall very sturdy jack stands are also necessary because you need to work under the car.
A decent air compressor and air tools (Large & Small D/A Sanders) are only needed during the bodywork stage.
If you are going to go off the rails and get creative with your driveline, then you will need a welding machine.
Graduation:
https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...-mk4-roadster/
Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8m...4orIm7w/videos
Just Know If I Can Build A Factory Five, Then So Can You!
Steve / aka: Go Dad Go
The key to a quality build in my opinion is organization. Keep your work space, whatever it is, clean and organized. Read the manual cover-to-cover before you start the build, and the section you plan to work on before you start each step. Gather all the parts and tools for the step you are going to work on before you start. Lay everything out so you can see how it will go together. Look ahead to be sure you understand what comes later that your current step may interact with. Always think SAFETY as you work on the car; stability of the chassis, eye protection when drilling and riveting the aluminum, gloves, etc. Take your time and if you aren't sure about something, STOP! Ask questions, re-read the manual, test fit, don't sacrifice quality for speed.
The most important tool in your build:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1604157416
Have fun!
The Milwaukee rivet tool is a joy to use, I only wish it was around when I built mine 18 years ago.
Make sure you have plenty of good 1/8" drill bits for the rivet holes. Pilot drill bits help to get the hole centered where you want it without having to center punch each hole.
a fridge with beer in it.
Mine is within 5 feet of the car. Ice cold and always stocked! Fat Tire or IPA for me, Miller Lite for visitors :pQuote:
Originally Posted by nuhale
Thanks Steve! :)
Thanks Everyone!
The riveting gun for sure will be on the top of my list. Who has experience with Snap on vs Matco tools? I've always had Craftsman, but I would like to get a new set. IDK but I feel like the quality of Craftsman has gone way down...maybe its just me.
Any suggestions on tool chests & garage cabinets? Costco sells a brand called Trinity, they are SS and look well made.
Would a lift be better than jack stands, or would it get in the way of you working? I'm thinking of stands with wheels so I could move the car around while working? https://www.ezvjack.com/
Cheers!
Rob
When I turned wrenches for a living I used craftsman and snap on. I agree Quality of craftsman hand tools has gone down in recent years but I believe they still offer lifetime warranty. The same can be said for husky brand at HD. Snap on and Matco are great brands but pricey for limited non professional use.
Gear wrench makes a great set up ratching wrench for tight spots.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gearwrenc...ss_ts-do-p_1_4
Almost all of my tools are Craftsman, 20+ years old. I have a few SnapOn and a lot of Gearwrench too.
A pop rivet gun came with my Hotrod kit.
You’ll need a drill press, a bench grinder, and a belt sander to make the doors, hood, and trunk fit.
A digital voltmeter would be nice to do some troubleshooting with.
A flare tool to make up the brake lines.
Have fun.
Number one thing for me was to keep everything organized. If your work space and your tools are clean and organized your build should be as well.
As other have posted, most of my tools are USA Craftsman collected over many years.
Rolling chassis and suspended body really helped. I promised my wife she could still park in the garage and everything worked out great.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1604188395
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1604188944
Garage prep is a fun stage! That’s where I am now on my FFR journey.Quote:
Originally Posted by F-5-R
Many forum builders have built a chassis dolly for their build. It’s a fun project to tackle while you await the arrival of your kit, and will save you about $1,300 over the ezVjacks you linked. Search the forum for Jazzman’s Chassis Dolly instructions. Here’s my version:
Attachment 136974
For cabinets, I went with a brand called NewAgeProducts. It’s quality stuff and assembly & mounting is as straightforward as it can be:
Attachment 136975
I agree with all of the above. My contribution is this: having wi-fi access in your garage and a place to park you laptop (where it won't get smashed or covered in grit and oil) is a huge plus. This forum is a very important tool and you'll want easy access close to your build.
If you have room for a lift then my answer is absolutely absolutely absolutely. It has made my build a joy to do because it will save you 500 up and down trips to the creeper. Being an old fart at this point in my life and with arthritis biting me all the time I couldn't have done this without the lift. Plus it just make life easy.
Defintely a floor lift if you have the room. I built numerous cars without a lift, then picked one up for free. Should have purchased one years ago as it makes working on a car so much easier. Also - organization including shelving and inventory so you know where all the parts are and you don't waste hours searching for something right in front of you! Refrigerator and beer are great options but tends to lengthen the build time.
Hey Rob, congat's on the build and have fun! Remember, that's what this car is all about, and the build is one of the best parts!Quote:
Originally Posted by F-5-R
FYI, I purchased the best power rivet gun available, used it once or twice then put it down. Nothing beats the assurance of a "perfect" rivet job than the force on your hand and the sound and feel of the "snap" as the rivet head breaks away. I was surprised how many did not set right on the first try for one reason or another and I would not have known about many of them if not for the feedback I got doing it by hand. Really wasn't hard and is quite satisfying to use an old fashioned hand unit. Not "dissing" the power units, just commenting.
Brien
I'm a huge lift fan too. Anything to get the build up in the air and save my back. Which can put me down for a few days for no reason at all it seems. But a quick comment about the power riveter. I did my first build with a couple hand riveters. No problem but it did get a little old. I used a few 3/16-inch steel rivets (as opposed to the more common aluminum ones) and found they were just about all my office hardened grip could manage. So upgraded to a Campbell Hausfeld pneumatic gun. Have used it for several builds and very happy with it. I agree with BB767's comment that you don't get as much feedback as when doing them by hand. But I found the consistency and easy of setting the volume of rivets was worth it. I've done thousands with the pneumatic tool and recommend it.
Fast forward to today. I'm a huge fan of Milwaukee cordless tools, and have a pretty large collection of their M12 Fuel tools. A year or two ago they released a rivet tool (https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...-Tools/2550-20) which I immediately was interested in. Not cheap, but got great reviews and several builders on here have used and commented about them. With my upcoming 35 Hot Rod Truck build, put one on my wish list and took the plunge a few weeks ago. Don't have the kit yet. But the last week or so I've been working on a suspended ceiling in our basement. That requires installing white pop rivets all around the wall molding so whipped out the new rivet gun. Man am I impressed! Aside from not dragging an air hose around, it works perfectly. One of the big things I noticed is that it's not as violent as the pneumatic one I have. It pulls relatively slow in comparison and unlike the pneumatic one, doesn't mar the head of the painted rivets. Often a problem I found with other methods. Including manual. Lots of words. Sorry. But nice tool and I'd add it to the list if your budget allows. Another month and hope to be using mine a bunch more. :cool:
Comments on some of the replies and recommendations.
Pneumatic riveter---some guys love 'em, I don't. I bought one when I began my first car and used it for maybe 50% of the rivets. Second car I used it for about 10% (mostly I think just to see if my opinion had changed). Every one since has been done by hand. IMO, the pneumatic is bulky and cumbersome, it's a pain to drag the hose around and I like to seat the rivet and feel it pull by hand. I wound up giving it to a new builder who was going to buy one. After seeing Paul's comments on the Milwaukee fuel powered tool I'd be interested in trying one out to satisfy my curiosity but hand popping 'em really doesn't bother me.
Drill bits---Plain ol' black oxide, no fancy cobalt or titanium. Use #30 rather than 1/8". Buy a Drill doctor and use it often...it will pay for itself.
Dremel---Get a quick change cut off wheel arbor and a big pack of reinforced wheels because you'll probably use that more than anything else.
Cordless drill and impact driver---Absolutely. Pick up 1/4" and 3/8" socket adapters and you'll rarely use a ratchet again!
Clecos---I've got 50 or so which works fine for me. You don't have to fill every hole but some guys like to do so and make a showing of it so if that makes ya' happy go ahead!
Strippers/crimpers---I'll go for inexpensive tools on a lot of things but don't cheap out on these.
Lots more but that's a start!
Jeff
I am hoping to get a roster in the next 2 years so I can not give a good response to OP post but I have a question along these lines.
Seems silly but a computer/laptop in garage with good WiFi for some reason seems important to me so I can annoy people on board when I am stuck?
I usually only buy one time or low use stuff from them but Harbor Freight makes a pretty nice set of tool chests and cost quite a bit less then what your looking at. Bearing slides and tension closing doors. It's all modular as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by F-5-R
Jeff, I completely agree. There is nothing worse then cheap strippers!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner
Check out Tekton tools. I used mostly Craftsman all my life. I've been disappointed for a long time. Tekton is that great "lots of tool for the money" area. Great warranty. And easy to get a new tool, which I have never had to do. Take a picture of the broken one, and they send you a new one. Use their web site to buy and you get bonus credit to spend.
I have an old laptop in the garage. Music streaming and every answer you will ever need.
It's shocking how large the stack of $1 bills gets for a good one, but quality and dependability are worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalanche325
The list of NEED is really not that long. A decent set of hand tools, drill, rivet gun, torque wrench, jack stands (please only buy double locking ), etc. The list of WANT and NICE TO HAVE can get pretty long.
Things I didn't have during my build:
Drill press - I have one now because of another project.
Compressor - I got one to paint my car. All bodywork was done by hand.
Automatic rivet gun - Don't you want to be able to pop tennis balls with your hands when you are done?
Lift - would be nice.
Here is one of the best things that I ever bought for the garage (after my build)- 5 drawer mechanics cart. With Tekton or Ernst socket organizers (the exact same thing except the logo), you can get a HUGE amount of tools in the main compartment. It is now my main working tool box.
https://www.harborfreight.com/tool-s...art-64030.html
I would have a look at the nicer Home Depot Husky boxes. They have some pretty awesome stuff for great prices.
What I would buy if I were starting another build?
Combination disk / belt sander.
Bladerunner saw. I went to help someone else that was building locally. He had one and it was awesome. I didn't even know they existed. Or you could build a jigsaw table.
What couldn't I live without?
First of all....this forum!
Dremel tool - used it a million times.
HF metal brake for custom work.
All kinds of measuring tools. Tape measures, steel rulers, calipers.
Torque wrench - HF ones are fine. They often beat Snap-On in shootouts.
Mechanics gloves for metal work
Parts bin rack. Somehow it's still full of stuff. Like this, but I got it for $99 at Sams Club - https://www.amazon.com/Commercial-Ga.../dp/B01LXAHXP0
Sharpies. Black, silver and gold. The metallic ones are perfect for marking fasteners after you torque them.
Thanks Rook! Those cabinets look great! I'm defiantly going to go with those! I also love the dolly idea, I couldn't believe the price on those ezVjacks :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Rook
CDXXVII,Quote:
Originally Posted by CDXXVII
Amazing car & garage! Love it :)
Thanks everyone for the tips and advise!
1. A set of real jackstand pads. Rags don't work.
2. A set of TALL jackstands.
3. A soft carpet under the car with padding underneath
4. Plenty of painters tape on the frame - you'll step on it more times than you can imagine.
5. Pneumatic riviters are for wussies. But then again, with a hand-riviter after popping it can slide sideways, and the cut shaft can scratch your painted panels. A pneumatic riviter pulls it away cleanly.
AND THE MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE:
6. The moment you start cursing, it's time to clean up and drink beer. Go talk to the wife (if so equipped.)