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I have a MK4 Complete Kit I ordered with sway bars front and IRS. Cutting the rod ends looks tricky. So...the question is do I go forward and cut them (HOW?) and install the sway bars or do without. How much benefit are sway bars on the street? The rest of the build is going great. even cut the rear spindles correctly, then polished the cuts.
Thanks (in advance) for your help.
I did a 427 MK4 a year ago with IRS and front and rear sway bars. Very rough ride compared to a few 3-link without sway bars I built. Unless Road racing is in your future I would drive it without at first. You can add them later if you wish. That is my 2-cents worth, LOL.
Thank you for your sage advice. I'll leave them off for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by wallace18
I have not driven a FF car yet but I ordered my Type 65 kit with sway bars. I have not had a car since my 64 Bug without sway bars so for me it was an obvious choice. I might have to disconnect them.
Although I haven't had my car on the open road yet, my neighborhood drives have plenty of hilly, twisty roads and I can't sense any body roll on the car at all. In fact, it feels quite the opposite and is pretty stiff. I'll know more once I can actually drive the car, but suspect I'll be fine without sway bars for my intended driving (road use - no track time). My car is a 3-link rear by the way.
As far as cutting the rod ends, they are easy to cut. I used a hack saw on one and then used my angle grinder to cut the others. I have them on my MK4 w/IRS front and rear. So far I've found the ride to be firm, but not at all uncomfortable... And it feels like it is on rails in the turns... However, I've not even come close to any kind of aggressive turning and such. I think for the extra $$ it is well worth the cost. But as was mentioned, they can always be added later.
My 20th Anniversary Roadster build has front and rear sway bars. The ride is fine. For my street driving I'm pretty confident I don't need them. But they came with the Anniversary package so installed them. Sway bars shouldn't negatively affect ride quality if set up properly, and in my experience what FF supplies works fine. Cutting the rod ends isn't difficult. Did them with a hack saw and cleaned up on a stationery disk sander. Yes they're hard and takes a little patience. But no big deal. Just went through that again with the Coupe build because I have them on it was well.
I went to a club event with them attached and used them several runs. After disconnecting there and doing several more, I felt like I needed to leave them connected all the time. Just had more control like on rails and less body roll.
Go ahead and mount all the brackets now. Much easier to get the bars on if desired, later.
Sway bars IMHO are to fix handling issues. If you don't have any you don't need bars. Rear bar if you are under-steering front one if you are over-steering. Two bars if you can't get the car balanced the way you like it with a single bar.
Don't have bars on mine but if you really think you will need the get the mounts on the car during the build.
I drove my MKII for years without any, but as I continued to push the car in turns more aggressively I started noticing a little body roll. I added a miata racing swaybar to the front and never looked back. Loved how tight it was in the corners and I didn't think it affected the handling noticeably. But that was just me. Planning on the same setup on the new build.
Have same setup as you and I'm running front & rear bars. Very comfortable, no regrets with the bars. Just make sure they are not pre-loaded under neutral weight. Best way to do this is get it corner balanced.
Pro-tip for cutting them. Put a Jam nut on, chuck them up in a vice, then use a sawzall with a metal blade. Way less work and faster.
Respectfully disagree with your assessment. Sway bars are exactly that, to reduce body roll. If you have bars, best to have both. The front bar does most of the control of body roll, and the rear tunes the over/understeer characteristics of the car. I drove my MK3 for 8-9 years without and then installed both. Body roll (and tire/fender rubbing) is significantly reduced and used the rear bar to set the car up to steer neutrally (neither under or over steer).Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Sway bars are for fine tuning the suspension. As said above, to "fix" a handling problem. Fine tune the car for the driving conditions and basic set up of the car.
For track use, I added stiffer springs all around. I usually disconnected the sway bars for the street, but connected for the track. On the street it gave me a softer/smoother ride, but would tend to push on hard corners. On the track the balance was just about perfect. I could get a gentle 4 wheel drift on some corners.
Thank you Paul,Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
I respect your opinion and expertise.
Well, I did install the IRS mounts while I was at it; easier now. I think I will install the sway bars now too while the chassis is open. I can then dis-connect them later to see the difference.
Thank you all for your opinions. This forum is GREAT!
Jeff
Do you need them......depends on what you are doing with the car. If you are 100% street, then you probably don't. If you are doing track, yes. If you are going to autocross, they are even more important as the car is constantly transitioning.
Here is what anti-roll bars are really good for. They allow you to adjust your suspension easily. They allow you to have an effectively higher spring rate for turns, without actually having stiffer springs. You can tune your suspension without roll bars. However, you would need to have a race trailer full of springs to really do it. As far as I know, everyone with FFRs and VPM bars runs the front bar at full stiff and adjusts with the rear.
If you think these don't have any body roll...... This shot is less than 60mph without roll bars. Attachment 102329
This is about 90MPH with rollbars. Attachment 102330
Assuming the link for the front bar still attaches to the extra long lower coil over bolt, be sure to install that bolt w/ the nut facing forward. Maeks it a lot easier to attach the link if all you need to do is remove the nut and some spacers.
This is how I felt about my experience. I ran without them for three years and then installed both front and rear. The cars are a little rough riding normally, so I didn't notice a difference in ride quality on normal cruising. It's a little like having the best of both worlds; the bars effectively increase spring pressure in the turns and relax to normal spring pressure in a straight line. I like the VPM bar in the rear due to it's variable adjustment for fine tuning.Quote:
Originally Posted by RR20AC