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This is my first choice for engine; however, I have a few questions.
I am going old school: no computers, no EFI, will do IRS 3.55.
Is this engine tractable?
Does it have a lot of lope? (I hope)
Torque seems a bit low; how is the low end?
It comes only rear sump. Will that fit?
Wide ratio or close ratio TKO 600?
Is there a better choice?
What about "The Engine Factory", ATK, BluePrint? Anything comparable? Engine budget is $7K
Thank you in advance for any suggestions.
https://blueprintengines.com/collect...-base-aluminum
Check out Blueprints 347. I have used in a few builds I have done with great results. Rear sump will work on MK4. Trans is up to you. One is better for racing one for street cruising.
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That specific engine isn't available any more. Might find one in a warehouse somewhere. But Ford Performance lists it as no longer available. Looks like the only thing they're selling now is 363's. Nice engine. But in both cases they are sold without a lot of parts, e.g. intake, carb/EFI, ignition, etc. Don't see how a fully dressed engine from there is going to meet your budget goal. Anything with an aftermarket block like this one (e.g. Boss, DART) isn't likely to meet your goal. You'll probably need to stay with an original style Ford block, or "seasoned" as the engine builders like to call them. Looks like a fully dressed 347 from Blueprint would meet your goal and at the rated 415 HP / 415 torque would be plenty of power. I personally haven't used Blueprint. But they are working with Factory Five and seem to get positive reviews so far. Don't know anything about the others. Front or rear oil pan sump doesn't matter too much for street driving. Either will clear since the front suspension is well in front of the engine. More important is the depth of the pan. Can't be more than 7.500 inches to keep from hanging below the frame. For that engine (or something similar) 3.55 is probably going to be a good rear diff ratio. Personally, I'd recommend the .064 5th gear TKO600. But in both cases, you need to look at the overall setup of engine, trans, diff, tires, and how you plan to use the car to determine the best combination.
To add on to Sir EdwardB's comments:
A .64 O/D with 3.55's R/P out back with a 26" tall tire (285/40-17) will yield a 70 MPH highway speed at 2056 RPM.
The same setup with a 25.6" tire (275/40-17 or 315/35-17) will put you at 2,100 RPM's at 70 MPH.
Regarding the sump location, if you have a heavy foot like many of us, then strongly consider the rear sump option.
If you're not a stop light to stop light stupid footer like me, then the front sump should be just fine.
Good Luck, Welcome Aboard & Enjoy Your Build!
If you are going to plan on doing any autocross or track days, invest in a good oil pan such as Gordon Levy's. Ask my main bearings how they know LOL
You could also call Mike Forte for an engine price. I called him last week and he sent out a quote within an hour. Very helpful. We also discussed TKO 600 ratios and he has a calculator on his website to help show the engine rpm with different ratios/speeds.
Mr. Scott Makes An Excellent Point Since His Mains Have Obviously Paid The Price!Quote:
Originally Posted by scottiec
Even though mine is a "Claimer Type Piece" it does control the sloshing stuff.
It is fully baffled with a "Pan Mounted" windage tray.
A good pan can save you in the end if you plan to do any kind Open Track Days, Auto-Crossing or even a little Drag Racing.
Oh boy! All that research for nothing. Guess I'll just have to push it up and down the street. I am ordering next week to take advantage of the sale. Won't be ready for an engine 'till early next year. I'll keep looking.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
Summit says they have one, but I spent all my money for this year.
And my house is not finished yet.
Thank you for all your help.
Jeff
OOPS, Summit DOESN'T have it. Really liked that engine. New block, forged internals, etc. Oh well...
Guess I'll have to pull the engine and ZF from my Vette, a la GoDadGo. Looks like Ford doesn't want to make pushrods anymore. Shame, better sell their stock.
Jeff,
I'm a major fan of that motor, and used them in both of my builds:
Here's my first. IRS/ 3.55/ Torsen diff:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1474479328
And my second, built for my brother. Moser 3-link, 3.55's too. Not sure which traction lock the Moser came with:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1451252627
BTW, the completely dressed motor/clutch/External Hydraulic throw out\QuikTime\TKO 600 with mid-shift was $14k+. I believe the LONG BLOCK was somewhere over 7K. If the primary purpose of the car is cruising with occasional autox or road coarse there is plenty of motivation under the hood without getting crazy. For this application IMO it's basically bullet-proof. I was planning to use it again for my future Gen4 Coupe/GTM2 build.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1427121547
I love how compact this motor is. It allowed me to fabricate a ginormous passenger foot box and increase the driver's side foot box as well. It is indeed a bummer that it's no longer available.
There are several vendors on this site that can build you a nice 302, even down to duplicating the specs with the "B" cam and forged internals. Take your time and call a bunch of them. As the admin of the site I'll defer my personal opinions but I will say that price and quality are two very different things.
:)
Mr. Hodgkins, I see that you are using multi port injection. What are you using for a throttle body, and computer? I like what you have here, might be interested in replicating it. Thanks!
My first build MPI came from Mass-Flo, which uses a modified Ford 9L and whom I DO NOT recommend! The second, MUCH nicer unit is the Holley HP system. It comes with it's own ECU, throttle body, harness, injectors, runners, etc. but the intake needed to be machined. I got the whole thing from Mike Forte. The motor dyno'ed at 374 FWHP. Not crazy, but plenty for a 2200 lb car. With this motor I could bolt on 125+HP with a supercharger. I've never felt the need for it personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by erstanl
I'm currently mulling a replacement EFI for the Mass-Flo. I MIGHT go with another Holley HP since I have a compatible intake already but I'm also considering going with a throttle body style Holley Sniper due to it's integrated ECU and simplicity.
HTH,
:)
Thank you, I'll check it out.
Yeah, I think that BOSS 302 is bulletproof. 4 bolt mains and everything. The block had the oiling issue solved too. Oh well, maybe I can find a used one, but I really wanted to go all new.
Thanks for your comments.
Jeff
Jeff, one last note, if I may. I hear the Dart block is very stout... Perhaps that would suffice?:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff's First FFR
http://dartheads.com/product/?cnpf=1...ttr_engine=234
:)
Thank you David; I'll look into it. Perhaps it has 4-bolt mains.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hodgkins
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hodgkins
DART blocks are first class. Had one in my #7750 build that I purchased as a short block. The build is described here and subsequent posts: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...l=1#post134308. Don't want to get into a GM vs. Ford style debate, but this builder considered the DART to be superior to the Boss blocks. The only thing he uses and he's a highly regarded builder. Something to do mainly with the extended cylinder skirts the DART has vs. the Boss. Boss is still an excellent choice, IMO, but DART also is a great choice. Most builders offer them for an upcharge. This specific build was their SHP block, which is 4-bolt mains on the three main caps, and 2-bolt on each end where there's more support. Builder said they were solid up to 900 - 1000 HP. So no worries IMO. A full 4-bolt block is DART's Iron Eagle. But a lot more money and overkill for your power range. Don't have that Roadster any more. But I hear from the new owner occasionally, and it's still running great. A good strong 347 is nearly an ideal setup for these cars IMO if you're going traditional. I will tell you I like the Coyote a lot better, but that's not your plan. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeff's First FFR
Yeah, looks like the Dart is overkill for me; probably over budget too. I really respect your opimion. Looks like I had better look into a 347.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
Thanks a bunch!
https://shop.dssracing.com/product_p/m-6010-boss302.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeff's First FFR
And another:
https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-rac...SABEgK6U_D_BwE
You were considering the Ford Boss block. The DART SHP is exactly the same price range. $1700 - 1800 for the bare block and typically a $1000 - 1500 adder for a custom engine build. In either case, basically an insurance policy. The Ford 302 stock blocks were originally designed for 225 HP. They're robust and can often take twice that or more. Guys will run them for years. Some on the track or running multiple drag passes. Or not and they crack open like an egg through the lifters. I've seen the examples in person. Within reason, the stock blocks will take a lot and guys on here have run a bunch of them. But they can and do break. Either the Boss or DART at these power levels don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff's First FFR
Gordon Levy looks like he has a nice motor right in your price range, I'm sure Mike Forte would as well. I'm in Canada so had my motor built locally (the currency is a killer) but would be very happy to use any of the forum vendors if I was located in the US. Have fun, the motor selection/build is the best part of the build process in my opinion. ScottQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeff's First FFR
Stage 4 Street Engine (from Gordon Levy's site)
Stroked 347 C.I. engine. This is also a fully machined and balanced power plant. Other features include, steel crank, I beam rods, Forged pistons, Custom hydraulic roller cam, Victor Jr. cylinder heads, Victor 5.0 or Victor Jr. intake. It is 10:1 compression and runs on 91 octane pump fuel. Horsepower is 420 bench dyno with a properly tuned EFI or 450 with a Holley 650 pro series carburetor. 6000 rpm shift point with a 6500 rpm rev limit.
Price:$6995
Mike Forte quit using 302 blocks due to cracking. I got a Dart 347 from him.
JR