Would like to build GTM in Wisconsin, couple questions

Great forum, I appreciate all the info provided, thanks.

I would like to build a GTM in Wisconsin and am wondering if anyone has built one in this state and successfully licensed it. I read on another thread that someone built another FFR car in WI and couldn't get it licensed. That would be heartbreaking after all that work and money. If any Wisconsinites have achieved that would be great if you could comment.

I'm trying to calculate what a reasonable cost would be for a GTM with all new parts. One aspect that I haven't seen mentioned is what the typical cost is for having the body work and painting done, could someone give me rough idea on what they have spent on that area?

Thanks!
Keith

Welcome to the forum. If you are not aware, there is also the "other forum" that has quite a bit more FFR information. Look up ffcars.com.

As to costs for body work, I have personally witnessed less than $5k and also seen more than $50k spent. My suggestion is that you try and keep the bodywork thing in perspective and not spend too much. THe car will get the same looks as you are driving by, and the only real difference will be when/if it is sitting on display at SEMA or something, which MIGHT justify some expensive bodywork, otherwise, I would not waste my $$ on extremely precise body reworks.

Thanks Crash, I will check it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith1

I'm trying to calculate what a reasonable cost would be for a GTM with all new parts. One aspect that I haven't seen mentioned is what the typical cost is for having the body work and painting done, could someone give me rough idea on what they have spent on that area?

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Keith1,

I have a fairly detailed spreadsheet I kept regarding build costs. My build was all new parts except for the G50-20 transmission, with many of the "options" that seem to creep into most builds. I did all the bodywork/paint with the help of a friend so have no labor costs included for that. Bottom line - I am in to the tune of $80K for my completed car. Happy to share the spreadsheet with you if you'd like. PM me with your email if interested. Just remember - it will take longer and cost more than you believe :).

-Michael

GTM #327, LS3, G50/20, Kooks, AC, Ron's Tanks, Crash's 4-port HCV, Shane's Bolts & Plenum & etc., plus a lot of other stuff. Finished November 2013.

I'm into my GTM about $48k so far, and about 80% into the gokart stage. I'm looking at spending probably $5-7k in other parts and upgrades. So with no bodywork, I'm going to be sitting at upward of $55k.
I plan on doing some of the bodywork myself, but expect to pay another $10k for the final finish work......I think. My budget was $60-65k.

Then of course, I have also imagined another $30k worth of stuff that I was just dreaming about........but yeah .... I'm going to attempt to stay within my budget. :)

I was surprised at the cost of paint materials on my last project. The pearl that I picked for it was $800 per pint!!! Like Crash inferred though ....you can spend as much as you want to spend when it comes to paint and body work. In the long run though, a good looking job will attract as much attention as a show quality job.....as long as your not showing it.

Thanks for the info guys, I really appreciate it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aceflo

I'm into my GTM about $48k so far, and about 80% into the gokart stage. I'm looking at spending probably $5-7k in other parts and upgrades. So with no bodywork, I'm going to be sitting at upward of $55k.
I plan on doing some of the bodywork myself, but expect to pay another $10k for the final finish work......I think. My budget was $60-65k.

Then of course, I have also imagined another $30k worth of stuff that I was just dreaming about........but yeah .... I'm going to attempt to stay within my budget. :)

I was surprised at the cost of paint materials on my last project. The pearl that I picked for it was $800 per pint!!! Like Crash inferred though ....you can spend as much as you want to spend when it comes to paint and body work. In the long run though, a good looking job will attract as much attention as a show quality job.....as long as your not showing it.

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Aceflo,
Are you using all new parts?
Thanks,
Keith

I have almost all new parts except control arms. The car was purchased as a project already started and the previous builder had made the decision keep the used control arms. I think there is probably about a $5,000-7000 dollar difference between a pallet of used and a pallet of new parts. Someone else in the forums said that there are advantages of having a donor car since you may need bolts and little pieces that may not come on the pallet.

If I had to choose, I would go with new parts for the lower probability of getting a worn out item. It's more expensive, but I like the peace of mind. The guy I bought my GTM from had similar feelings.

I did a quick search of pallets of donor parts for the GTM.

New pallet = $11,000
Used pallet = $5,000

I don't know what the cost of shipping is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aceflo

I did a quick search of pallets of donor parts for the GTM.

New pallet = $11,000
Used pallet = $5,000

I don't know what the cost of shipping is.

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I agree, it seems using new would be worth it. Do you know of anyone who has built a GTM in Wisconsin and was able to license it? I saw that someone who built an 818 in WI was unable to get it licensed.

I'm also wondering what level of car knowledge is required to complete a GTM. I'm a physician, so my area of expertise is not in the automotive field but I am mechanically inclined and a fairly quick study. I have done some basic auto repairs over the years, like brake repairs etc, but nothing like building a car from scratch. Do you know of others that have embarked on this project with minimal knowledge in the area that were successful?

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help!
Keith

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith1

I agree, it seems using new would be worth it. Do you know of anyone who has built a GTM in Wisconsin and was able to license it? I saw that someone who built an 818 in WI was unable to get it licensed.

I'm also wondering what level of car knowledge is required to complete a GTM. I'm a physician, so my area of expertise is not in the automotive field but I am mechanically inclined and a fairly quick study. I have done some basic auto repairs over the years, like brake repairs etc, but nothing like building a car from scratch. Do you know of others that have embarked on this project with minimal knowledge in the area that were successful?

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help!
Keith

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Given that scenario, I would highly suggest one of two routes...either pick an easier car to build as your first build, or spend the time and money to go to a build school. You can build a GTM without having any previous car building experience, but the finished product will greatly benefit from what you will learn by either of the two mentioned paths being taken first. Not only will the finished product be better, but you will have more fun building it.

Thanks for the advice. The build school is a good suggestion, I do wish they were putting together the GTM at the school though!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith1

I agree, it seems using new would be worth it. Do you know of anyone who has built a GTM in Wisconsin and was able to license it? I saw that someone who built an 818 in WI was unable to get it licensed.

I'm also wondering what level of car knowledge is required to complete a GTM. I'm a physician, so my area of expertise is not in the automotive field but I am mechanically inclined and a fairly quick study. I have done some basic auto repairs over the years, like brake repairs etc, but nothing like building a car from scratch. Do you know of others that have embarked on this project with minimal knowledge in the area that were successful?

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help!
Keith

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I live in California, so I don't have the foggiest idea of how difficult it would be to register/license your car there. In fact, I don't know anybody here in Northern California (North of Sacramento) that owns a GTM either. I hear rumors of a couple, but nobody has jumped out and identified themselves as being close to where I live. However, between this forum and the factory five cars forum, I'm always surprised to see how many people drop in and send invites to other to come see their car. The last time I checked, GTMs are more heavily populated on the east coast than the west. I'm making the deduction that it has a lot to do with the location of the factory. Curiously, there are quite a few in Texas as well... LOL. :)

Regarding your skill level .... well ....I was headed to medical school and thought I would do well there due to having a strong mechanical background. I decided against it due to the financial burden it would have placed on me. (all those MCAT study hours went to waste). I've been working on cars for 30 years now, and I often think of the human body as sharing similar mechanics. As a physician, I'm sure you have the same deductive reason skills and the ability to research answers to perplexing problems. Does that necessarily translate into having the artistic ability to complete the build? *shrug* ...not for me to say really. My body/paint guy gives me hell for overanalyzing things before I do anything to the car. He is the type that can just make stuff work by doing it (often many times over). Regardless, the GTM is certainly a project that I feel requires a little bit of both approaches. You do have an instruction manual to guide you through the build, but remember that these cars are not something that you can just assemble. I've been told by a couple forum members here that I should ignore parts of the manual anyways. A lot of people say that the GTM is one of the more difficult kits to build. (see crash's response as well).

Personally, I would never want to discourage anyone from tackling a challenging project that they are going to love. With enough time and money, you can really do anything you want. For myself, I'm pretty good with mechanical stuff. Body work? Well, that's an art form, and I absolutely suck at it. I can work materials, make parts fit, shape things, and do all the basic work up through the first primer. After that though, the fine details that make a project professionally complete must be done by someone else who has the skill and talent. I will most likely spend a good portion of my budget paying someone else to complete the final prep, paint, and polish. In regards to the skill of building the gokart portion of the project, I feel that drilling, riveting panels, and bolting things up is pretty straight forward. At least until you run into the panels that are suppose to fit, but don't without modification. No biggie though ... there's a tool for everything.

You can get into the car as deep as you want, and the forums here are a wealth of knowledge for "fixes" to many of the common problems that will be encountered with the build. As crash stated though, experience will generally yield a better product. (see my paint and bodywork statement above) I think that there is a lot of truth to the statement, "If it was easy to build a GTM, everyone would be building them." I also believe there are many levels of "fun" when building a car that vary from person to person. It is impressive to see how deep people get with this GTM build. Looking through the various build threads, some guys go WAYYY beyond the typical assemble job to make their car custom, and with their own signature in the design. If you decide to build a GTM, your skill level is going to dictate how comfortable you get with making the car "your own". If you just build it as it comes from the factory, then the final product is going to look pretty similar to that of the factory kit. Looking through all the build logs here, and hundreds of pictures of other builds, I feel that the car needs a little bit more of a personal touch to take it to the next level.

I wouldn't let your lack of knowledge prevent you from building a GTM, as parts of the build are pretty easy mechanically. Just be prepared for the not-so-easy things to consume a large amount of time and cursing. Without the experience, the build may take longer than you expect. There are definitely areas of the build in which I will be soliciting the expertise of others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aceflo

I live in California, so I don't have the foggiest idea of how difficult it would be to register/license your car there. In fact, I don't know anybody here in Northern California (North of Sacramento) that owns a GTM either. I hear rumors of a couple, but nobody has jumped out and identified themselves as being close to where I live. However, between this forum and the factory five cars forum, I'm always surprised to see how many people drop in and send invites to other to come see their car. The last time I checked, GTMs are more heavily populated on the east coast than the west. I'm making the deduction that it has a lot to do with the location of the factory. Curiously, there are quite a few in Texas as well... LOL. :)

Regarding your skill level .... well ....I was headed to medical school and thought I would do well there due to having a strong mechanical background. I decided against it due to the financial burden it would have placed on me. (all those MCAT study hours went to waste). I've been working on cars for 30 years now, and I often think of the human body as sharing similar mechanics. As a physician, I'm sure you have the same deductive reason skills and the ability to research answers to perplexing problems. Does that necessarily translate into having the artistic ability to complete the build? *shrug* ...not for me to say really. My body/paint guy gives me hell for overanalyzing things before I do anything to the car. He is the type that can just make stuff work by doing it (often many times over). Regardless, the GTM is certainly a project that I feel requires a little bit of both approaches. You do have an instruction manual to guide you through the build, but remember that these cars are not something that you can just assemble. I've been told by a couple forum members here that I should ignore parts of the manual anyways. A lot of people say that the GTM is one of the more difficult kits to build. (see crash's response as well).

Personally, I would never want to discourage anyone from tackling a challenging project that they are going to love. With enough time and money, you can really do anything you want. For myself, I'm pretty good with mechanical stuff. Body work? Well, that's an art form, and I absolutely suck at it. I can work materials, make parts fit, shape things, and do all the basic work up through the first primer. After that though, the fine details that make a project professionally complete must be done by someone else who has the skill and talent. I will most likely spend a good portion of my budget paying someone else to complete the final prep, paint, and polish. In regards to the skill of building the gokart portion of the project, I feel that drilling, riveting panels, and bolting things up is pretty straight forward. At least until you run into the panels that are suppose to fit, but don't without modification. No biggie though ... there's a tool for everything.

You can get into the car as deep as you want, and the forums here are a wealth of knowledge for "fixes" to many of the common problems that will be encountered with the build. As crash stated though, experience will generally yield a better product. (see my paint and bodywork statement above) I think that there is a lot of truth to the statement, "If it was easy to build a GTM, everyone would be building them." I also believe there are many levels of "fun" when building a car that vary from person to person. It is impressive to see how deep people get with this GTM build. Looking through the various build threads, some guys go WAYYY beyond the typical assemble job to make their car custom, and with their own signature in the design. If you decide to build a GTM, your skill level is going to dictate how comfortable you get with making the car "your own". If you just build it as it comes from the factory, then the final product is going to look pretty similar to that of the factory kit. Looking through all the build logs here, and hundreds of pictures of other builds, I feel that the car needs a little bit more of a personal touch to take it to the next level.

I wouldn't let your lack of knowledge prevent you from building a GTM, as parts of the build are pretty easy mechanically. Just be prepared for the not-so-easy things to consume a large amount of time and cursing. Without the experience, the build may take longer than you expect. There are definitely areas of the build in which I will be soliciting the expertise of others.

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Aceflo,
Thanks for the encouraging and insightful reply. I have really been impressed with the comradarie on the forum and willingness of complete strangers to help others out with their cars. I think Crash's suggestion of attending a build class is a good one, I'll have to do that. The idea of having a neat project like this that I can spend as much or as little time on as I want is appealing.

I'm sure you would have made a great Doc, but it is a long difficult path. My daughter has just started med school this past month and it has been a total comittment for her just getting in and now starting the long path of endless studying and exams. She loves it so far.

You live in a beautiful state, I went to school in southern california. Great place to drive a GTM around!

Keith

Keith ..

There isn't a build school for the GTM unfortunately. The school offered by Factory Five instructs on either a Cobra, 33 Rod, or 818 ricer. However, the build school would be awesome way to spend 3 days of my life and would be a hell of a kick in the gluteus maximus. Even though the school doesn't cover GTM, the techniques and knowledge may be extremely valuable and will possibly cross over to parts of the GTM build. I have often considered skipping my next vacation to attend the build school instead. I think it would be fun.

Moving on to California.....yeah .... I've been here most my life (except my military time). I loved going to UC Davis, and I love the weather. I think that those are the only two things I like about this state. LOL. I do hope to have my GTM completed one day and have the opportunity to attend the Factory Five Car Show in Huntington Beach. The people in the forums here are a class above when it comes to making you feel welcomed and part of a club. It is going to be nice to put faces to the names, and to thank people personally for their insight and wisdom.

Rick