Building a mk4 or a type 65 coupe for the first time, which could be better choice?

Hello, I'm trying to build a factory five racing kit car and have been looking a lot to decide whether to build a type 65 or the mk4. I've read a lot of forums and information about both builds and the trend seems to tell that the type 65 is more challenging than the mk4.

However I really like the type 65 due to the fact that they are much more unique and have more creature confort possibilities like a/c and a roof top.

I've owned a t-bucket before and actually crashed it very hard when I was at college in Mexico due to the carburator sticking at full throttle I had taken the car to a mechanic to replace the trotted cable, it has a 350 engine and ran 11.30 et. The rollbar saved my life that time It is almost ready to go back in the street. Also I have a 66 mustang coupe and a 57 bel air that was built from scratch and heavily modified.

I do most of the mechanical and structural work on the cars but haven't painted one yet, this would be a first. I've read that the body work in the type 65 coupe is much more than on the mk4.

I have the means and will to buy the kit but haven't decided yet on which one. I mean they are almost the same price but the time frames of the coupe builds seem to be in years compared to the mk4 which are regularly done in months!

Any suggestions will be welcomed, since I know that you have much more info and experience building these beautiful cars, and hope that I can provide info about the build once I can decide which one to build.

Thank you!!

The MK4 is an easier kit to build for sure. The Type 65 is unique and different. The Coupe can be a challenge to get in and out of. But it is more enclosed and can carry a lot of stuff in the back for shows and such. It takes a lot more work to get the body right IMO.Both are great cars it is really up to you. Just read the build threads and do your homework. Best of luck and have fun. Don't forget the forum members are always here to help as well.

I don't know about your comment that Roadsters are regularly built in months and Coupes in years. Just from the shear numbers, there's a lot more build info and details about Roadsters, and most take longer than months. Years is actually pretty typical. But having said that, I wouldn't put a lot of stock into reported build times. Everyone is going to be different. There are so many variables. New or donor. Time available to work. Stock or modifications. Beginner or experienced car guy. Beginner or experienced with FF builds. Finishes chosen. The list goes on.

Sounds like you have the experience so either a Roadster or a Coupe would be a good choice. Just depends on what you want. I would find a Coupe if I were you and check that you can get in and out OK. Easy for some. Not so much for others. The basic chassis, suspension, running gear, etc. is very similar between the two. The differences are going to be the much more extensive body work on the Coupe (full doors, hatch + window, tilt front, integral headlights, etc.) and because it's enclosed, heat and A/C are almost mandatory. Many put heat in the Roadster, but A/C is not nearly so common. The Coupe is usually the more expensive project as well, for the reasons mentioned. Good luck!

Hello, thanks for the support, about the mk4 I've read that is way easier, and actually ever since I remember the roadster has been the one me and my brother wanted to build, but now that I can afford it I went back to see the costs and such and I found out about the type 65 and I loved it too. That's why I'm hesitating and asking for tips and pros/cons.

I'm going to search more info in the forums about the build and hopefully decide soon to buy the right kit.

Thanks.

Jaime

Hello Edward, I'm beginning to do my homework about the builds, I've read that experienced people have done the mk4 really fast and seen videos of teams of people building them in weeks like the ffr school, that's what I meant, also I saw the the ads of some members in the forums that have done the build in 3-6 months from the start to finish. But like you say the mayority take one or two years, without help.

My brother promissed to help in the build if I helped him build his own mk4. So maybe the first one will be tough and the second one will go faster if we learn the lesson.

I will do my homework about the type 65 to see if I'm up to the challenge of building one, it's a stunning car!!!

Thank you for your feedback about the difficulty involved, regards.

Jaime

I too was leaning towards the coupe too, but getting in and out was tough and a little pricey, if price does not matter get someone to let you try their coupe and judge for yourself. Goodluck and welcome to the family

Welcome. One of the best things ever written about building a coupe can be found by doing a google search for "fail, fail, fail, type 65," or something reasonably close to that. I think the web address is type65.blogspot.com. The author's entry titled "fail, Fail, FAIL" gives a candid overview of the struggles of building the thing. I think the short of it is that you need to be a little more of a fabricator and problem-solver to build a coupe, compared to a roadster, particularly if you want the aluminum paneling and body to have a really nice fit and finish (the old and true saying is "everything almost fits"). This is not a criticism of the kit or meant to dissuade anyone, but worth reading before putting down your hard-earned money. Again, welcome and good luck.

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Originally Posted by Jacob McCrea

Welcome. One of the best things ever written about building a coupe can be found by doing a google search for "fail, fail, fail, type 65," or something reasonably close to that. I think the web address is type65.blogspot.com. The author's entry titled "fail, Fail, FAIL" gives a candid overview of the struggles of building the thing. I think the short of it is that you need to be a little more of a fabricator and problem-solver to build a coupe, compared to a roadster, particularly if you want the aluminum paneling and body to have a really nice fit and finish (the old and true saying is "everything almost fits"). This is not a criticism of the kit or meant to dissuade anyone, but worth reading before putting down your hard-earned money. Again, welcome and good luck.

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I found and read through this blog. It's sad seeing someone going into a project with excitement and enthusiasm and then later reaching the point where he wants to bail on the whole thing before finishing. He was unable to sell it for what he had in it (no surprise there, unfortunately) so is having someone finish it for him. There are some important lessons to be learned in this blog. These things take time. Lots of it. He didn't have enough and admitted it. Little to no experience can be a problem, and was in this case. This project included a donor and a lot of part rehabilitation. Also a lot of work, and maybe not for everyone. The builder also shows that it's nearly impossible to build one of these with only the manual. Especially without experience. These are all points prospective buyer/builders should be honest with themselves about, regardless of what they are trying to build. In this particular case, the guy may have been better off with a Roadster. But likely would have faced some of the same issues IMO.

I found that blog and read a few paragraphs but it became too painful to continue. One of my pet peeves has been that sometimes the FFR marketing can lead the inexperienced or uninformed to believe that since they were able to successfully build a piece of IKEA shelving they can now move on to something bigger...like a car! Unfortunately it seems this guy was one of those who then entered into the project not knowing what he didn't know and wound up learning that often the most painful injuries are self inflicted. Simply and bluntly with no disrespect intended---not everyone who wants to build should.

Jeff

I don't know if I'll fit right, I'm 6'3". And I have never seen one in person, just photos and videos. Let alone drive one or even sit down in the drivers seat.

In car shows I have been able to sit on the mk4, but not actually diving the car.

But seems that for the first try my brother and I should build the mk4 and see how we manage the build and all that's required to complete the car.

I hope we can start soon.

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Originally Posted by jgm

I don't know if I'll fit right, I'm 6'3". And I have never seen one in person, just photos and videos. Let alone drive one or even sit down in the drivers seat.

In car shows I have been able to sit on the mk4, but not actually diving the car.

But seems that for the first try my brother and I should build the mk4 and see how we manage the build and all that's required to complete the car.

I hope we can start soon.

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If in doubt, that's a great starting point. Given your height, seat selection is something you should look at. There are options that will accommodate you better than others. It would be great if you could find other owners/builders in your area. There's just nothing better than seeing these in person. Don't expect anyone to let you drive theirs though. Rides, yes. Driving, no.

A lot of how you fit depends on whether you are long of leg, long of torso or average for your height. At 5'9"/160 I fit either. When I got in Dave Smith's Coupe with Kirkeys flat on the floor I found a surplus of leg room and had a clear view through the windshield. My buddy Aaron who is 6'1/200 with average leg to torso proportions found that although he had more leg room than in his roadster he had to duck down to get a clear view out the front due to the short windshield and front tube of the cage. As has been said, you really need to try them on and keep in mind that different configurations can help improve some areas (but may also hurt in others).

Good luck,
Jeff

Welcome to the forum.Guys with little experance have build the roadster. The coupe is quit a bit harder to build due to the amount of fitting the body and finishing it.Roger

I see you are in the Houston area. You should contact Tom Mauldin. He has built both, and is actually building a coupe right now. He's in Pearland.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...hlight=mauldin

Just my opinion. A few here have hit on the bigger issue and fit isn't it. The MKIV is a much more refined kit than the coupe, and much more a bolt together operation. No offense intended, but the fact that you took your car to a mechanic to change a throttle cable tells me you need to look at the MKIV. Either car can be modded as needed to fit a 6'3" person. The coupe is a really cool car, but it is a much more challenging undertaking than the MKIV.

Exception to this is if you plan on any sort of competition. If so, it is easier to make a challenge car street worthy than make a street car track worthy. Also easier to make a coupe track worthy than a street roadster.

If you really are committed to this building a car thing, then you probably can do either project successfully. I emphasize "really committed" because for one person it may be very easy but for others the realization of the level of commitment is not understood (I was one of the latter). If you know what you are getting yourself into then go for it. I would start with the MKIV which as stated before is more refined (4th version) with lots of factory fixes and mods so you would have a much easier time and a larger data base to use for your support needs. However, beware: you might end up enjoying driving the project more than building. In that case, you may never get to the coupe build.

Good luck which ever choice you make,

WEK.

Hello, I've been reading the responses, and have found a lot of support from you guys, I'll try to contact the member that builed the two kits and ask for his opinion, as for the fact That I took the car I crashed to the mechanic, it was becouse at that time I was in medical school and didn't have much time left for myself studying all the time. Also in Mexico it's really cheap to take the car to the mechanic. After the crash I never took any modified car to anyone else, if you want something done right, do it yourself. I learned my lesson the hard way.

Of course there are things I've never done, like a proper alignment or disassemble anot automatic transmission, but I converted a 95 mustang from automatic to standard, a 57 Chevy 2 door post to a custom convertible, swapped engine and transmissions of a 68 camaro my father owns.

What really concerns me is the actual bodywork and painting, that's something I've never done before, in México it's cheap to have it painted by a pro.

I'll probably have to quote and look for someone who can do a better job than me on the paint.

Thanks for the feedback.

Jaime

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Originally Posted by jgm

Hello, I've been reading the responses, and have found a lot of support from you guys, I'll try to contact the member that builed the two kits and ask for his opinion, as for the fact That I took the car I crashed to the mechanic, it was becouse at that time I was in medical school and didn't have much time left for myself studying all the time. Also in Mexico it's really cheap to take the car to the mechanic. After the crash I never took any modified car to anyone else, if you want something done right, do it yourself. I learned my lesson the hard way.

Of course there are things I've never done, like a proper alignment or disassemble anot automatic transmission, but I converted a 95 mustang from automatic to standard, a 57 Chevy 2 door post to a custom convertible, swapped engine and transmissions of a 68 camaro my father owns.

What really concerns me is the actual bodywork and painting, that's something I've never done before, in México it's cheap to have it painted by a pro.

I'll probably have to quote and look for someone who can do a better job than me on the paint.

Thanks for the feedback.

Jaime

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Hope you don't think I was beating up on you with the comment, just trying to give the best advice with the information given. With the coupe, you'll need to do a lot more massaging and making things work while the MKIV will require almost no fabrication, just things like bending brake lines and cleaning up a few holes.

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Originally Posted by mikeinatlanta

Hope you don't think I was beating up on you with the comment, just trying to give the best advice with the information given. With the coupe, you'll need to do a lot more massaging and making things work while the MKIV will require almost no fabrication, just things like bending brake lines and cleaning up a few holes.

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I didn't think your comment was offensive, I know that I'm no expert in building cars, I've done some repairs and modifications but never actually build a complete car, that's why I'm asking for help and info about the actual process of building a ffr replica. I still think the coupe is more of a long hauler and a headturner so I don't know if I'll trust the heart or the brains in the building choice.

There is a lot to figure out yet and another big point would be that it's cheaper to build the mk4 than the type 65 coupe.

Well you could build the roadster and someday a coupe

I highly recommend the Factory Five Build School, Mott Community College, Howell, MI. They focus on showing you basic skills needed to complete the build. However, bodywork/paint is not included. Great instructors and a fun time, as well.

Garry

I've never build a car before but chose the coupe because I love the car.
Mechanically I don't think there is much difference other then the possibility of AC.
Body work, as others have mentioned, is the bigger difference. Been at it some 6 years and plug away when I can.
Either car is definitely a labor of love and will take more time then you expect, especially when you spend time on the forums and start adding mods. But it's your blank canvas, and if you're committed long term you can pull off either.
Mark Dougherty is a great resource to get out to your garage and get you unstuck and/or further down the road.
Good luck on your decision!!

John

After giving much thought we have decided to build a cupé, and just bought a kit that was halfway through and had many parts plus some extras. However there are a few things missing that we'll have to buy but I believe nothing mayor.

I'll try to keep some photos of the progress once we get the car home and when I figure out how to upload them to the posts. We will commit to finish the proyect in anew acceptable time frame and hope that we succeed in making a real tribute car to the Daytona legend.

Congrats on the coupe purchase!

Garry

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Originally Posted by jgm

After giving much thought we have decided to build a cupé, and just bought a kit that was halfway through and had many parts plus some extras. However there are a few things missing that we'll have to buy but I believe nothing mayor.

I'll try to keep some photos of the progress once we get the car home and when I figure out how to upload them to the posts. We will commit to finish the proyect in anew acceptable time frame and hope that we succeed in making a real tribute car to the Daytona legend.

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Awesome! Post pics soon

Excellent! Please keep us informed and don't hesitate to ask questions. Hopefully you'll find the build to be a very positive experience.

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Originally Posted by jgm

just bought a kit that was halfway through

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Hopefully you got all the paperwork including the MCO properly signed over to you. There have been some horror stories when folks have gone to register their cars purchased unfinished from others without all the proper paperwork.

Good luck with the build. I'm in Houston too and happy to share my experiences if you wish. Which side of Houston are you at? I'm in the far southwest 'burbs.

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Originally Posted by ram_g

Hopefully you got all the paperwork including the MCO properly signed over to you. There have been some horror stories when folks have gone to register their cars purchased unfinished from others without all the proper paperwork.

Good luck with the build. I'm in Houston too and happy to share my experiences if you wish. Which side of Houston are you at? I'm in the far southwest 'burbs.

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The MCO can only be signed by a registered dealer. And Factory Five won't issue a new one with a different owner. They have stated they don't want to get into the ownership determination business, and I completely understand their position. You need a fully executed bill of sale, signed by both parties, maybe notarized if you're so inclined, fully explaining what it is, that it's on an MCO, etc. That plus the MCO issued to the original buyer seems to be OK for most states. I posted a bad experience with Mk4 #7750. Maybe that's what this is referring to. I bought an almost new kit from the original owner in New Hampshire. My state (Michigan) wouldn't accept the MCO even though I had a complete bill of sale. They made me treat it like a lost title. That meant posting a surety bond, to the tune of $600. Even that was looking dicey for awhile. At first they wanted me to try to contact the original owner -- two years from the past -- or they wouldn't do anything. This wasn't just the local office. The word was coming from Lansing. They claimed there had been a lot of fraud, and they had a number of new policies including this one. Fortunately, in posting this story several times, multiple others from lots of states have said they didn't have a problem. Just something I would advise checking though.

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Originally Posted by jgm

Hello, I'm trying to build a factory five racing kit car and have been looking a lot to decide whether to build a type 65 or the mk4. I've read a lot of forums and information about both builds and the trend seems to tell that the type 65 is more challenging than the mk4.

However I really like the type 65 due to the fact that they are much more unique and have more creature confort possibilities like a/c and a roof top.

I've owned a t-bucket before and actually crashed it very hard when I was at college in Mexico due to the carburator sticking at full throttle I had taken the car to a mechanic to replace the trotted cable, it has a 350 engine and ran 11.30 et. The rollbar saved my life that time It is almost ready to go back in the street. Also I have a 66 mustang coupe and a 57 bel air that was built from scratch and heavily modified.

I do most of the mechanical and structural work on the cars but haven't painted one yet, this would be a first. I've read that the body work in the type 65 coupe is much more than on the mk4.

I have the means and will to buy the kit but haven't decided yet on which one. I mean they are almost the same price but the time frames of the coupe builds seem to be in years compared to the mk4 which are regularly done in months!

Any suggestions will be welcomed, since I know that you have much more info and experience building these beautiful cars, and hope that I can provide info about the build once I can decide which one to build.

Thank you!!

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My 2 cents for what it's worth:

Set your expectations accordingly. I've to have built several custom cars (full chassis, frame off's, paint, the whole 9 yards) and the first think you need to understand is it's no different with a kit. This isn't a Lego set you are just snapping together. There will be the same re-engineering and change modifications you will run into regardless of what option you go with so be prepared mentally.

With the MK4 know that space is at a premium everywhere. I'm bout your size (6'4") and the 'stock' configuration simply will not work for you. You may see that people 'technically' fit but you'll end up with a different seat/foot box when done to get comfortable. Just for reference, my wife is 4'10" and thinks the stock leather upgraded seats fit her perfectly, and in the 'stock' seat location she can push the clutch all the way in. Needless to say she's requested I make bar stools out of the seats.

As for the work load between the 65 or MK4, think of it as building a ranch house or a colonial house. It's going to take a lot of work regardless.

Hello everyone, I was busy with work an hadn't been able to post anything. I see that you're giving me very good advise about paperwork, I'll look into that promptly and let you know if that's right. I don't want to build a car that cannot be driven in the road!!! .

I think that this proyect will be challenging and fun, I can't wait to start wrenching and working in the car. I've been reading the building posts about the coupe and also looking at the manual where we could find more trouble like the wiring or the fitting of the doors.

I'll post some pictures once the car arrives and the proper paperwork is checked thoroughly.

Thanks to you all!!!

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Originally Posted by jgm

I see that you're giving me very good advise about paperwork, I'll look into that promptly and let you know if that's right.

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It's right. I lived it. Just may not apply in your state. Looks like Texas has everything documented here: http://www.txdmv.gov/publications/do...vehicle-manual.