Aluminum panel question on new VA build

Hi y'all,

any advice from experienced builders would be appreciated on this question. I've made a lot of progress so far, but one thing is bugging me. The instruction manual often seems to drop its train of thought re the sequence of installing the aluminum panels. 2 examples: on the passenger side footbox floor, it never tells you to actually install the panel, but the pictures show it riveted in place; on the floor panel (same side) it tells you to "mark but not drill or rivet" the holes that go up the front edge of the transmission tunnel, but then never says go ahead and rivet it down. I see more examples of this the more panels I put in - is this a recurring problem in the manual??

In a related question, the trans tunnel top piece is just siliconed on in the manual, but I see several thread postings recommending rivnuts so it's well attached but removable in the future. What's the smart move here?

Finally, it seems to be taking forever to receive some of the parts on my backorder list (complete kit) - e.g. the steering box, fuel level sensor, and Halibrand wheels. Is this normal?

Thanks in advance,

Jim

First of all, "Welcome to our group"! My bud Luey and I have had the same conversation many times. To add to my confusion, I bought a base kit and he had the complete kit-2 different manuals for the most part. One thing you need to have are some klecos in 1/8 and 3/16" sizes. These will allow you to hold panels in perfect alignment to the holes as you drill them, and most importantly take it back apart as many times as you need to. If you are lucky, it will only have come back twice before you are ready to silicone and rivet. The DS footbox you will want to leave klecoed until the the end-when all your circuits have been run and even after your go kart run. One thing that will help is to flip through the manual to find views of what you are working on that end up in the back ground of what they are showing. Do mark the panels with a sharpie where they mate. Mark the surfaces "over/under", so it all goes together as it was when it arrived.
The tranny cover is the same deal as the DS footbox. Use the klecos . Once the tranny is in, filled and speedo sensor and back up circuit is all done , there is no need to get in there again. If you need to work on the tranny in the future, jack the car up and drop it straight down and out. You can make the cover removable, but no factory car ever had a need for this...

Hope this helps!

welcome Jim! I'm in Virginia as well - Atlee. There are a few other VA guys on too. I'm hoping to meet some this year as I get my car titled.

As to the aluminum, I too recommend you make liberal use of clecos and test fitting. I would mark my holes, drill aluminum, set in place, cleco the sheet metal screw hole to hold it, then drill the first hole into the frame and fill some of those with clecos as I went to secure it. Otherwise it could move slightly as I was drilling and I'd have to run the bit back through to get a fit. That didn't answer sequencing...the manual could be more descriptive but if you follow the pictures I believe it is the right sequence. Test fit everything first and you'll get a feel for it. For example, when doing the PS footbox it really goes together in one sequence otherwise it will bind up and be hard to get at.

I left the top line of the tranny tunnel "open" as the manual suggested but when it cam time to put the tunnel cover on it was a problem as I couldn't easily get silicone between the sheet metal and frame. I'm not entirely sure it matters if you run silicone along the top early on without rivets. I wouldn't rivet it until you do the tunnel cover though. I didn't do rivnuts...and I hope I don't regret it :)

One note: I have the 351W and TKO600 and there is NO WAY to drop the tranny straight out. My biggest regret was not hooking the tranny to the motor before dropping it in. I had to half pull the motor later to slide the tranny up and in. It may work for you depending on your equipment but the 351w/TKO will not.

Good luck and check the forums frequently - too many awesome people here to name in a 10 page post!

Rivnuts are nice if you are going to do a lot of off/on. But it's a $100 or so investment. I would find a thin sticky back foam insulation at HD, put that on top of the 3/4x3/4 tubes and rivet the tunnel top on. It only takes about 20 seconds to drill out a rivet as long as it's an aluminum shank. Of course to make it easy to get that top off, you need to make the carpet piece easily removable too. My carpet is a separate piece that has binding all around. It is glued just to the top of the tunnel cover and has a few pieces of industrial Velcro on each side near the bottom to pull it tight over the bend and down the sides.
BTW, where are you in Va? Go to the top and click "My Profile" and add your town so we know where you are.

Thanks for your replies Craig, Ernie and Smithbks. A couple of things: I'm in Great Falls, VA in Fairfax County, but when I try to edit or add anything to my profile, I get a message saying I'm not authorized to do that. What do I need to do?

I am using the cleco fasteners as you've all described, and have finished most of the cockpit sheet metal (working on DS floor now, PS is all done). I'm just *****ing about the fact that the complete-kit manual seems to have many logical holes, and that I'm still waiting for key parts (e.g. the steering rack) 2 months after kit delivery. So far I've glued & riveted in all the pieces (except for the top edge of the tunnel) after drilling in place using the clecos. Instead of using GE silicone I've been going with the Bostik 1100 Urethane from Breeze automotive, which is easy to work with & seems much stronger when dry than the silicone. I intend to seal all the seams with 3M 08302 autobody sealer when I'm done.

For background, I have a complete MKIV kit, a 415HP 331 (stroked 302) engine, a TKO600, and a 3.55 rear with the FFR performance brakes. I bought the driveline from the Engine Factory in NJ - I really liked the engine they provided for my 70 Z-28 I restored awhile back.

Excellent. I hope you have heard about the Capital Area Cobra Club.
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/
There are a ton of cobra owners in the area. I am way out 8 miles south of Manassas but there are many closer to you. Every Sat at 8AM there is a breakfast gathering at the Vienna Inn. Drop in and get to know people. get on that forum and introduce yourself. We are always glad to help.

Mk III and later trans( TKO) can be removed with out removing a 351 engine. It doesnt "drop" straight out but it can be done. Original installation was both trans and engine as an assembly but two years later to have the TKO 600 reworked for better shifting Trans was removed. Engine is a World Products 427 based on a tall deck 351.

Kenny

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by olda4guy

Thanks for your replies Craig, Ernie and Smithbks. A couple of things: I'm in Great Falls, VA in Fairfax County, but when I try to edit or add anything to my profile, I get a message saying I'm not authorized to do that. What do I need to do?

I am using the cleco fasteners as you've all described, and have finished most of the cockpit sheet metal (working on DS floor now, PS is all done). I'm just *****ing about the fact that the complete-kit manual seems to have many logical holes, and that I'm still waiting for key parts (e.g. the steering rack) 2 months after kit delivery. So far I've glued & riveted in all the pieces (except for the top edge of the tunnel) after drilling in place using the clecos. Instead of using GE silicone I've been going with the Bostik 1100 Urethane from Breeze automotive, which is easy to work with & seems much stronger when dry than the silicone. I intend to seal all the seams with 3M 08302 autobody sealer when I'm done.

For background, I have a complete MKIV kit, a 415HP 331 (stroked 302) engine, a TKO600, and a 3.55 rear with the FFR performance brakes. I bought the driveline from the Engine Factory in NJ - I really liked the engine they provided for my 70 Z-28 I restored awhile back.

---

Welcome to the forum! We used to live in Sterling, VA, so know Great Falls well. Nice area! You have to have a certain amount of activity before you can edit your profile, post ads, etc. I think it's 20, but I'm not positive. For sure it's more than 5. Hang in there and stay active and soon you'll have full access rights.

Don't overthink the manual. The latest ones are vast improvements over earlier ones, but still nowhere near full step-by-step instructions. You still have to do some thinking and planning on your own. Plus this forum and FFCars.com are invaluable when you get "stuck" or have questions. Hopefully since you are proceeding to permanently mount panels you have already installed fuel lines, brake lines, and at a minimum the rear wiring harness leg? Not a huge issue if you haven't, but certainly easier without the panels in the way. Since you're working on the DS, leave the outside and top pieces off as long as possible. You will want that access to the footbox, wiring harness and dash areas. I don't permanently mount those panels until right before the last body on step. Many make the transmission tunnel removable as described. I personally haven't for my builds, but I certainly understand why some choose to do so.

The Bostik adhesive Mark sells is nice. Yes, it's stronger plus some guys just don't like silicone. It is a bit messy plus some don't want silicone around the car. But I will say the silicone is plenty strong enough. If you use the right amount, plus the right amount of rivets with the panel fitting well, you won't be able to remove it without probably ruining the aluminum panel. Many of us know that from experience. :rolleyes:

Welcome...

I am another Northern VA Mk 4 builder. As Craig S stated the CACC is a great group with a lot of experience with these cars.

BTW Craig is immensely helpful, has been over to my place plus responds to my many silly questions rapidly and concisely.

On the aluminum panels...I also put the part number on the panel as I removed them and took a bunch of photos as well.

Carl

Jim,

I'm a little behind you but have the same parts problem. Judging from your thread date you and I will be in a later wave for the wheel delivery. FFR HAS begun delivering wheels to the oldest orders but my delivery was late February so I'm not expecting delivery for at least a few weeks. I also don't have my steering rack and will be contacting FFR tomorrow to see if they will commit to delivery - they haven't in the past. I have also asked them to "ship as they get" my parts and not hold them for a single larger shipment.

Russell (Rustlesroadster)

I want to reinforce what Edwardb says on wiring and brake/fuel lines. The manual has you fly right through and then do those items. That is a flaw in my opinion. You definitely want to leave the trunk aluminum off or loose until you run the rear harness and it will be much easier if you run all your lines first too. Having that top access is so nice.

Hi there, I live in Sterling. I wish I had left some of the panels with just clecos while doing the brake and fuel lines as well as the wiring. I am a novice, but learning more every day. Good luck to you and welcome to the fun!

Thank you all very much for your replies - looks like I checked back on this forum just in time, as I'm starting to do the brake and fuel lines now. I've permanently installed the cockpit sheet metal except for the top of the tunnel and the outboard of the DS footbox (and not the trunk), but the access still seems adequate to do the lines and wiring harness. Thanks to everyone's inputs I'll certainly hold off on riveting any more panels until I've put in the tubing and harness. It helps that I've got the car sitting on a 2-post lift, so it's easy to get underneath if needed.

For Russelljones48, Eddie at FFR told me my steering box would ship this week sometime, so we shall see. I have everything else but the fuel level sender (could use that now), Lemans fuel cap, and the wheels.

I will certainly drop by the Vienna Inn on an upcoming saturday morning.

Jim

The upper trunk floor is a bit tough to do after the rear cockpit wall is done. It is how the manual says to do it though. I ended up buying a swivel head rivet gun (Ace Hardware). It came in very handy for a few other tight places too.

The only panels that I think are critical to leave until the last minute are the drivers outside and top. You can get to everything else. With a lift, you should be laughing.

Thanks Avalanche, I am laughing with the lift in my great new car workshop. My wife & I lived in Jax many years ago (Vietnam War days) when I was a pilot at NAS Cecil Field. Always liked that area. I've now finished all the brake and fuel lines, bled the brakes and they feel fine (going with the "equal" position on the balance bar for now), starting on the wiring harnesses.

F5 has finally shipped my steering gear, which arrives tomorrow. Now I'm just waiting on the fuel level sensor, cap, and wheels.

Jim