Engine Selection Suggestions MK4 Roadster

Hello to the forum. I am really new here and I am trying to get my parts lined up for my MK4 build. While investigating engines I ran into some issues with price and the overall parts list for drive train. I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction. Here are my particulars.

1) would like to build the car with a solid engine but not really interested in super horse power, below 300HP is fine with me. This is a street machine, I will not be racing.
2). I would like a crate engine with all the parts already done so all I really have to do is install the engine.
3.) I would like a manual transmission included.
4. I am looking for a standard straight 8.8 rear as well as brakes.
5.) I am looking to spend no more $8,500 to $9,000 if possible.
6.) I am not opposed to a rebuilt block or rear end ,it should just look clean and run great and have new parts on the engine, carb, pistons, water pump etc.
7.) I have contacted several dealers but they want around 11k for a complete setup.

If any of you have a resource or a suggestion it would be greatly appreciated. I live in PA.



Thanks for the help in advance
Kevin

Kevin, Have you talked with Mike Forte? He's highly recommended here, and I've had conversations along the same lines with him.

Am I understanding your quest correctly? A max of $9K for a complete engine, transmission, rear end with brakes? Don't forget about shipping costs. It isn't cheap. Especially a rear.

Forte(forum vendor) is selling a nice combo package(engine/trans) which I believe starts at mid $7K. The rear with brakes most likely around $1800. Might be tough to do it under $9K.

Olli

Yep, call Mike Forte. Sounds like a FMS X302 and T5z will be perfect for you.

Jeff

Welcome to the forum Kevin. Where are you located? This will greatly affect the total cost as shipping could come into play.
Doug

I live just outside of Philadelphia, I also have pickup truck so I can easily travel a few hundred miles to pick up parts.

One of the best values, and good fit, for these cars is the Ford Racing crate 306. Google M-6007-X302D and you can see more about it, what it includes, etc. They're around $5,500. You still need to add a few parts, but not real expensive ones: Water pump, alternator, starter, and change the oil pan to a lower profile that fits inside the frame rails of the Roadster. A Tremec T5z transmission is a perfect match and a great fit in the cars. In the $1700 - 1800 range. Add to this flywheel, bell housing, clutch and related parts, then the axle and brakes. Doubt you're going to hit your target number, and you can't do much better than this new. Agree to call Mike because he knows these cars and can put a package together. Assuming your budget isn't flexible, you may need to start thinking about used or rebuilt. There are lots of possibilities, but you're not going to find turnkey. At least for some of the components. It's going to take some work on your part.

Just a caution FWIW. It's possible to build to a budget, but there will be surprises along the way. Rarely do these get built for less than the budgeted amount. If you aren't ready for that, you need to think about it. Not trying to be wet blanket, just a realist.

Thanks for the feedback. At this stage I have not yet ordered my kit. I am just trying to line up the parts I will need to order. I am totally on board with the cost factor but since I do not purchase engines and transmission everyday I just wanted to get an idea of the prices and sources others have used. I am so excited to get started but want to build my part list together so I have an idea on the cost prior to ordering the kit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kpt112

I live just outside of Philadelphia, I also have pickup truck so I can easily travel a few hundred miles to pick up parts.

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So are you in Pa or NJ? If NJ, then you will need to ask Mike about using a pre '74 block.

Olli

Have you considered buying used?

Kevin, I'm in the same stage as you now. I'm trying to finalize my engine/transmission and rear end so I can make budget for this build project. I lot of people recommend Mike Forte to me and I still have some questions maybe folks here can answer.

Does Forte's parts are all brand new made or remanufactured / rebuilt since I want brand new engine/transmission and rear end thus plan to drive it for a longer time. If they are brand new, is it a turnkey. what is the difference if I order directly from https://www.fordracingparts.com/crat...e/main.asp#mod

Thanks, Joe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superjoe

Kevin, I'm in the same stage as you now. I'm trying to finalize my engine/transmission and rear end so I can make budget for this build project. I lot of people recommend Mike Forte to me and I still have some questions maybe folks here can answer.

Does Forte's parts are all brand new made or remanufactured / rebuilt since I want brand new engine/transmission and rear end thus plan to drive it for a longer time. If they are brand new, is it a turnkey. what is the difference if I order directly from https://www.fordracingparts.com/crat...e/main.asp#mod

Thanks, Joe

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Joe, Mike's motors are either all new or make use of seasoned blocks; it's your preference. I'm buying a completely turn-key engine/transmission combo from him right now using a FMS Boss 302 long block assembly from Ford.

HTH,

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superjoe

Kevin, I'm in the same stage as you now. I'm trying to finalize my engine/transmission and rear end so I can make budget for this build project. I lot of people recommend Mike Forte to me and I still have some questions maybe folks here can answer.

Does Forte's parts are all brand new made or remanufactured / rebuilt since I want brand new engine/transmission and rear end thus plan to drive it for a longer time. If they are brand new, is it a turnkey. what is the difference if I order directly from https://www.fordracingparts.com/crat...e/main.asp#mod

Thanks, Joe

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Joe,

I have been researching local sources. I did get a package quote from Mike Forte as well but I want to make sure I have a few options prior to taking the plunge. I did order my kit yesterday day so I am really on the hunt for a 320 engine / Tremec T5 and 8.8 rear end. My concern is the additional shipping cost which I am finding can be expensive. All in it seems I am looking at around 11k all in for all 3 items turnkey ready to drop in the car. Please let me know what finally decide. My kit ready date is scheduled for 3/14, can't wait.

kevin, Do you mean 302 engine? I plan to use the coyote engine since I leaned that crate engine will require more maintenance work afterwards. I want to build it and it should function just like other cars I bought from the dealer which means minimum maintenance is expected. I don't know what transmission to use for coyote yet since I found a lot of variations in this engine (NA/SC etc). But I want to keep my total budget for this build under 45k, if 40k will be better. I'm not sure if it is possible yet but looks like it is manageable. This project will not start soon, but I'm just that kind of person don't want surprise. I will keep you and people on this forum updated when I made some progress.

Joe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superjoe

I plan to use the coyote engine since I leaned that crate engine will require more maintenance work afterwards. I want to build it and it should function just like other cars I bought from the dealer which means minimum maintenance is expected. Joe

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The Coyote is a great choice, and by no means will I say anything negative about that choice. But just a quick point about perspective. Modern engines in today's DD's often require no maintenance for 100K other than oil and filters. Even oil intervals have been extended over what they've been in the past. Coyote engines are certainly in this category. But unless you're in the very small minority, you will never put those kinds of miles on these cars. Don't know where you live and related climate, but several thousand miles a year is probably more the norm. Maybe at the high end for most. No matter how many miles you drive, you're going to want to change the oil at least once every year. Even with the most basic crate motor, you shouldn't have to touch other maintenance items very often due to the much fewer miles these are driven. I would just be a little cautious about thinking this is a big decision factor. My opinion anyway. FWIW.

Ed, I will put couple thousand miles on it every year and what I heard is crate engine requires service after long trips. Since I plan to drive this car to Hilton head beach from Greenville which is 250 miles one way, so I think coyote will be more reliable for this kind of trip. If crate engine can also do the job, i don't mind have them as my option.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superjoe

Ed, I will put couple thousand miles on it every year and what I heard is crate engine requires service after long trips. Since I plan to drive this car to Hilton head beach from Greenville which is 250 miles one way, so I think coyote will be more reliable for this kind of trip. If crate engine can also do the job, i don't mind have them as my option.

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A properly set up and tuned crate motor -- or most any reasonable motor you put in these for that matter -- if properly set up, should make it through a season of several thousand miles with little/no maintenance. Check the oil, keep in eye on things, etc. But some type of scheduled maintenance after a long trip? Doesn't sound right. May want to check your source on that one. These aren't race engines or running quarter mile passes. I'm not saying a properly set up EFI motor won't take less maintenance than a carb motor, for example. But still, at a few thousand miles a year you should be able to drive either all season with no issues. My carb'd Mk3 (now sold) ran 3+ seasons and I did nothing but change the oil and filter, and fuel filter once. Pulled a plug every once in a while to see how they looked, and right back in. Again, the key is getting them properly set up.

Joe,


You are correct I meant 302 engine, my bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superjoe

kevin, Do you mean 302 engine? I plan to use the coyote engine since I leaned that crate engine will require more maintenance work afterwards. I want to build it and it should function just like other cars I bought from the dealer which means minimum maintenance is expected. I don't know what transmission to use for coyote yet since I found a lot of variations in this engine (NA/SC etc). But I want to keep my total budget for this build under 45k, if 40k will be better. I'm not sure if it is possible yet but looks like it is manageable. This project will not start soon, but I'm just that kind of person don't want surprise. I will keep you and people on this forum updated when I made some progress.

Joe

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I just found a local shop that will be able to supply me with a complete 302 crate Winsor 350 HP engine for $5,500 (fully setup, carb, water pump, distributor etc.) and a Tremec T5 transmission with clutch for $2500.00. So for a drive train motor and trans $8k all in. Still hunting for a local 8.8 rear. I like the facts the guy is local and I can see his shop and how he works. For anybody reading this, does this sound like a good price?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superjoe

Ed, I will put couple thousand miles on it every year and what I heard is crate engine requires service after long trips. Since I plan to drive this car to Hilton head beach from Greenville which is 250 miles one way, so I think coyote will be more reliable for this kind of trip. If crate engine can also do the job, i don't mind have them as my option.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kpt112

I just found a local shop that will be able to supply me with a complete 302 crate Winsor 350 HP engine for $5,500 (fully setup, carb, water pump, distributor etc.) and a Tremec T5 transmission with clutch for $2500.00. So for a drive train motor and trans $8k all in. Still hunting for a local 8.8 rear. I like the facts the guy is local and I can see his shop and how he works. For anybody reading this, does this sound like a good price?

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You'll need to tell us more about the components...Used block, crank, rods? Bored? How much? Same with the crank; standard or undersized? Rods; new or reconditioned? Pistons; manufacturer and material? Camshaft; roller or flat? By whom? Specs? What heads, valves and springs? How about the parts outside of the long block such as carb and distributor? Some work well on these cars and others don't. Who put it all together? Warranty (the FMS X302 from Forte and others has one).The questions are nearly endless and then we could start the same for the trans package (what clutch, which first gear ratio, which 5th gear ratio, and more). Not trying to be critical and the package that your local guy is proposing may be outstanding but shopping by price alone generally isn't the way to go unless you are looking at the exact same product. Do your research and be sure about what you're getting prices on so that you don't wind up with an apple when what you really wanted was an orange.

Good luck,
Jeff

I'd suggest looking at Blue Print Engines. They offer several combinations for SB Fords that are reasonably priced plus they come with a warranty. HP ratings are from mild to wild.

Shopping for the cheapest parts and expecting ironclad reliability are usually conflicting goals...

Price
Performance
Reliability

With a reasonable budget, pick two. If you go too low on price, then you're only picking one.

Purchased a salvage 04 Mach1, with 45,000 miles, on the Copart bidding site for $3500 delivered to my house. Stripped all the stuff I needed and sold the rest on ebay for $2100. Replaced the TR3650 with a new TKO600, bellhousing, and clutch for a total of $2825). Wiring modifications by Art Cuesta ($1300)completed the drivetrain package. The 4.6 DOHC engine and computer are stock. This package is a pleasure for cruising and plenty of power for track days at NJMP and Watkins Glen.

After 3 FFR's... 2 I used donors. The first one I sold more in parts than I paid for the '89 LX. You want New, I got that. Then buy from someone who Knows what you're doing. (Like Mike or?) There's some bits and pieces of that you'll need (from a donor). You need to decide, are you going to use the Mushtang pedal box, gas pedal, brakes, steering, gas tank, wiring, gauges... and even drive-shaft.

I too, am ready to order my complete roadster kit. In researching turnkey engine packages, it is pretty hard to beat Mike Forte's 306 base engine package. He has the experience and reputation to make it a no brainer if you want to eliminate the stress of worrying the engine selection process. His engine/tranny package comes ready to drop in. Given the fact that I am close enough to pick the engine package up is a plus. All depends on how much time, effort, and money you want to spend. I want to be driving my car sooner rather than later. It just all depends.....

Well, now that I have posted Mike Forte as my choice of engine builders, let me ask a question that many others may have. Who can people go to for a direct apples to apples choice for an turn key engine package. In other words, who else has an base engine package that is comparable to Mikes low end package?