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thebeerbaron

Adding Lightness

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I still haven't quite figured out why certain posts generate a lot of comments while others do not. Certainly the view and post count goes down when I'm not active over on the 818 forum, but still, a successful post is more hit-or-miss than I would like. Food for thought.

I've been working and reworking the clay like a madman here. I finally started to get the troublesome tail to where I'd like it, then I moved back to the front and essentially tore it all apart this evening. I distilled the shape back to what I originally had in mind and the form is stronger for it. Art is an iterative process for me. The question is how many more iterations can I get in before the deadline?

I initially stayed away from the forum posts that showed works-in-progress and the weekly winners because I didn't want my design colored by what others were doing or saying about the designs. A few weeks ago though, I relented and started looking at some of the sketches that were coming in. I still refuse to participate in direct conversations about others designs, but I haven't found my design swayed by others work.

What I thought I'd discuss tonight is that I see a lot of bodies that do not seem to have the goal of the 818 project in mind. I'm not going to rag on others designs here, but I wanted to discuss some design concepts that seem to have been forgotten.

I'll start off by restating what I call "The 818 Thesis". The emphasis is my own.

[QUOTE="Jim Schenck, Director of R&D"]
The design goal behind this car is very straightforward, the car must be [b]simple[/b], [B]lightweight[/B], affordable, and easy to build in countries around the world. The emphasis will be on [B]handling[/B] and driving fun rather than on the 200 mph exotic or the everyday commuter. The majority of the cars we sell are street cars and this will not be an exception, so full lighting, covered wheels, and safety items will all be incorporated but not much beyond that in terms of luxury type stuff. To keep things simple this will be an [B]elemental[/B] performance based street car first but with a roll bar/structure sufficient for track days.
[/QUOTE]([URL="http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/818intro.html"]source[/URL])

You can argue my points of emphasis, but you're going to be standing on sand. My thesis is that the body design of the 818 should embrace the concept of lightness and simplicity. Lightness is not just something that is measured with a scale. I was carving away at the rear corner of my model the other day and realized that the curve I was following added mass. I have since rethought that corner and eliminated that [URL="http://sixrevisions.com/graphics-design/visual-weight-designs/"]visual weight[/URL].

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1547[/ATTACH]
On the left, we have a lightweight form. On the right, we have a heavy form. I bet these pots weigh very nearly the same, but the short and stout has a lot more visual weight than the narrow and uplifted form. Notice how the slope of the curve on the outside of the tall form contributes to the sense of height and shifts the weight of the form up, off the ground. I'm exaggerating this a little bit since I had some trouble finding just the right image, but humor me. Look at how the relationship between the neck of the short pot and the height of the pot squash it visually into a lower, heavier form.

I'm not arguing for exoskeleton designs, but I feel like a lot of submissions scream Grand Tourer rather than flyweight sports star. Some of the proportions of headlights, ducts, and fenders scream "mass" more than "agility". As I called out in the beginning, one of the danger areas is the space between the driver and the rear wheels. It's a difficult area to work with - for roll-over protection and a potential roof, there has to be something here. But it's very easy to build this into the superstructure of an Iowa-class battleship.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1595[/ATTACH]

This generation of Toyota Celica has a serious visual flaw to me: the proportions in the rear wheel area. They're just wrong. Look at the distance between the edge of the wheel arch and the visual top of the car directly above it. It's almost as large as the diameter of the wheel! And it's funny, but it was kind of hard to find this picture. I wish I had it in silver, which would illustrate the issue more clearly, but all the pictures Google showed me were from angles which conveniently minimized this area. This massive, heavy area.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1596[/ATTACH]
Compare the Celica to this RX7. The narrowness of the C pillar and the minimal body between the wheel arch and the top of the car keep this one looking light. My eye doesn't see the glass of the hatch as weight here, the weight for me stops where the body does, or more correctly, the tint strip on the hatch. This area is much lighter, visually, than the same area on the Celica.

I'm heartened by the names that have been thrown out as part of the judging pool. I'm pretty sure they'll be choosing a lightweight design. :)
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Comments

  1. D2W's Avatar
    Finally somebody who gets it! I couldn't agree more with your design direction. Small, light, agile, are all words I would use to describe what I envision the 818 to be. I think a lot of people are thinking this car is going to be their next daily driver with all the amenities of a new porsche. I think it can be a daily, but only for the hardcore types that would daily drive a roadster.

    On a side note I too am curious as to why certain posts generate so much response. I guess you have to hit on something that sparks enough interest/enthusiasm/anger ect. to get someone else to respond.
  2. thebeerbaron's Avatar
    Careful D2W, suggesting the 818 will not be an acceptable daily driver is downright heresy to a lot of folks on the forum. Glad someone else agrees with me though!

    Today I'm scheduled to spend the day sculpting and getting some practice laps in on iRacing. I had a few comments about bas-relief sculpture techniques bouncing around my head that I might dish out later. I'm not the best lecturer on the topic, nor the best practician, but it strikes me as a way to achieve the character definition that a lot of contestants are going for without adding all the mass.
  3. PhyrraM's Avatar
    I see what your saying with the Celica, but I don't think I agree. That Celica was the last of the true FWD sports coupes, smaller and lighter than even it's own previous generations. Anything more recent is well over 3000 pounds. In person the Celica looks small and light, regardless of it's 'hip deficiency'.

    The RX7 is one of my top good looking cars of all time. Period. However, when folks start to add wings and body-kits - that's when it starts looking heavy to me.

    Looking forward to seeing your submission.
  4. thebeerbaron's Avatar
    From some angles the Celica works. Now that I've seen that flaw, I can't help but see it every time I look at the car. I was specifically not thinking about actual weight in this post, but if you say it's light, I'll take your word for it. I had one as a rental once, probably the most enjoyable rental I've ever had, even if it was an auto!

    The front end doesn't bother me too much, but I feel like the rear is a serious problem.



    In this picture, you can see where the designer took the line that starts at the front and continued it up and back. The problem I have with this is that by the time it gets to the back of the car, it's about 4' off the ground. Then the tail lights end about 8" below that high point, leaving 3'+ of bumper and ground clearance. You can see where Toyota interrupted that massive wall with a touch of trim (the horizontal gray), but that's not enough to trick my eye - all I see is this (an unfair and ugly aftermarket hunk of junk).



    That massive bumper is nothing but weight in my eyes. There is too little above it to allow for that veritable sheet of ABS underneath. I think that adding a character line or deep horizontal cut beneath the lights, maybe 1/4 of their height, before starting on the bumper could be a solution. On the red car, imagine that the corner where the vertical portion of the bumper meets the 45-degree portion below the tail lights was instead cut 90 degrees and carried to the body. The lights could have been extended down, or maybe it would have "just worked". Right now I think the style is OK, but flawed.

    I hope no one thinks I'm picking on Toyota here, with my MR2 comments and such. I liked their cars a lot as a kid, so maybe I take it personally when I think they screw up

    -edit- I bring up the tail in the hopes that if people can see that (which I think I may have illustrated better than my original point) then maybe they'll be able to see the hip thing more clearly.
    Updated 05-07-2011 at 11:59 AM by thebeerbaron
  5. PhyrraM's Avatar
    Fair enough. One problem might be that I *think* it rides on 15" wheels and has a realistic ride height. This leaves a small wheelwell and the 3/4 panel seems larger by comparision.

    Yes, the styling 'rises' towards the rear, leaving it much too high - I agree. I'm not sure I would call it heavy looking, but we are on the same page. It's one of the complaints I have with many of the current crop of submissions too.

    There has got to be some kind of balance between 914ish "pancake" and modern "rump roast" styling.

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