newbie on here with a couple of questions...

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

As my alias suggest, I make a living from the back of the original 1 horse power ATV... But I have been a "tinkerer" all my life ( have built &raced several "low budget" drag cars, made & raced a130 hp VW powered sand rail out of muffler tubing (bends made on muffler bender after hours at the shop I worked in part time), put together a couple of pickups from parts scrounged in wrecking yards, grafted an S-10 body onto a K-5 Blazer frame with a 1ton Suburban 4X4 running gear (454-Turbo 400).... I have been a fan & dreamer of the gen1 GTM for several years... my son happened to be surfing YouTube & came accross a video of the Nelson's twin turbo in a GTM... he calls me up to ask if that is the kit car I had always talked about wanting to build... he's drooling now... anyways, after his call I hop online & pull up the FFR site to refresh the dream just to find out there is now the gen2... I really liked the gen1 but I LOVE gen 2 & have decided in my old age that I HAVE to build one so the "GTM construction fund" (aka: mason jar on the dresser with a GTM pic taped to it) has been put into place....

(sorry for the long intro, but I hope it kinda sets the stage a bit)

Ok... my first set of questions (I'm quite sure there will be lots more)... I notice in the online brochure that the kit is set up for the 97-04 vette suspension parts.. will later model vette parts work ??? (I ran accross a wrecked 2011 LS7 for a steal... looks like it did an impersonation of a pin-ball on those dang concrete devider walls they put up during highway construction... the body is toast from every direction but it doesn't appear to have any motor nor suspension issues)...
Anyone actually running the Mendeola 5 speed??? What is the cost running now???
Does anyone know of an affordable 6 speed that will hold up to the horse power & torque of the LS7 ??? (cuz being a tinkerer, I am gonna HAVE to doctor up the power plant... THAT is a given with me)

Hope I'm not sounding tooooooooooo hick with my drawn out post...

Thanks...
JT

[flotowngtm]

Only the C5 corvette parts will work! But any LS motor will work.
Not sure about the Mendeola cost.
There are plenty of Porsche boxes that are 6 speed and will hold up to the power. GT2, GT3 boxes for sure
I should also tell you that the price of the GTM kit as about to go up 5K from 20K to 25K I think it it goes up in May. You might want to check into that and order as soon as possible. Or check the classifieds for someone that is not going to finish there kit and get yourself a screaming deal.

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

Ok... so the 2011 parts won't work... but think I am gonna scarf the car up anyways, it only has 8,000 miles on it & can get the whole car for less than a LS7 crate motor... then if I part it out after I get what I want from it I think I can recoup most of the cost... ;)

I also noticed the kit comes with a black interior... is that the ONLY color option???? (I live in Texas, this past summer we had 118 days of OVER 100 degree temps (98 consecutive) & most of those were with a 90+% humidity... our kinds of temps & black interiors do NOT go together... even with the a/c set to frost-bite...

[flotowngtm]

Black is the only color! And you will need to do all the insulation you can in there with the radiator piping running through the center tunnel. Shane makes some nice body panels to go under the car to keep the heat out of the center tunnel and that keeps it out of the cabin. Here is a link to his web site. By the way there is a lot of GTM's in Texas (motorsports capital of the world!) When mine is finished it will be there also.

http://vraptorspeedworks.com/custom-gtm-parts/

[Kalstar]

Hi and welcome.

I too would grab the Z for that kind of money, you will get most of your money back selling the parts while retaining the engine.

The Mendeola will set you back 10k with the needed acss. My underderstanding though it now takes the stock Vette starter.

There are many Porsche trans that will take the power and for less coin.

Black is the only color from the factory, but I was just quoted to recover the 6 interior pieces (not the seats) in any color I want, with double stitching for $1500.

The GTM can be built at a reasonable cost, start adding Mendeola and LS7 and that jar of yours better be pretty big.

[bil1024]

Don't forget the price increase of 5k for the kit now, maybe you can get in on a sale someday

[fastthings]

Helo,
I agree, get the engine out of that car. Buy a custom harness, get the rest of the stuff off ebay. You don't need much. A arms, tanks, steering wheel.

Taz......... Could you please show us a GTM gen 2 with bull horns on the hood, with an all white interior.LOL

I'm sorry I just could't resist. Good luck man,
Gene

[Roger Reid]

I believe the a arms and uprights are the same between C5 and C6. C6 Z06 brakes are a common upgrade for a GTM. I have heard that the tanks are different but can be sourced elsewhere. The steering column I don't know about but will probably fit even if there is some fab work.
I believe your biggest drawback will be that you will deviate from the build manual in wiring and fuel system. Get the workbooks with wiring diagrams from the make and year donor and you will be good to go.

[crash]

The Mendeola will set you back 10k with the needed acss. My underderstanding though it now takes the stock Vette starter.

There are many Porsche trans that will take the power and for less coin.



While I will agree with you that a Mendeola, when it is all said and done, will end up around $10K, I have to disagree with you that there are Porsche boxes out there that can handle the same power for less money. The upfront costs are about the same as the Mendeola and the Porsche accessories are ludicrous expensive compared to the stock GM stuff that the Mendeola can use. Everyone may have their preferrences, mine is all new parts with the Mendeola for the same price as used parts for the Porsche, but when you get right down to final costs, I think it has been pretty well documented on this forum and/or the other forum by MANY that the Mendeola can be done CHEAPER than a Porsche depending upon what has to be repaired, and the costs of upgrades to the Porsche box in order to get the gearing you want and the strength that is needed. Both those items are already in the all new parts Mendeola. ;)

[Kalstar]

While I will agree with you that a Mendeola, when it is all said and done, will end up around $10K, I have to disagree with you that there are Porsche boxes out there that can handle the same power for less money. The upfront costs are about the same as the Mendeola and the Porsche accessories are ludicrous expensive compared to the stock GM stuff that the Mendeola can use. Everyone may have their preferrences, mine is all new parts with the Mendeola for the same price as used parts for the Porsche, but when you get right down to final costs, I think it has been pretty well documented on this forum and/or the other forum by MANY that the Mendeola can be done CHEAPER than a Porsche depending upon what has to be repaired, and the costs of upgrades to the Porsche box in order to get the gearing you want and the strength that is needed. Both those items are already in the all new parts Mendeola. ;)

Box for box is the Mendeola better, the anwser is yes. That said, for the causal driver the Porsche units (in stock form) will do the job. For someone like yourself that has a specific use for your car and is at the top teir in abilities, the Porsche box will just not fit the bill. The (well used) G96 in the FF5 LS7 powered GTM worked just fine in fact it was the box used when Car and Driver tested the 3sec 0-60 11sec 1/4. The Mendeola/G50 argument can be the same as the GTM/SLC argument. Can the GTM cost as much as a SLC, yes... however the cost of admission is much less with the GTM. The same can be said for the P-box, cost can be less but start throwing upgrades in to a 15 year old box and it's better to just get the Mendeola (and for less money). I am into my box for less then 3k with a new clutch pack and starter. For me the P-box was better and less coin, for you (my guess is) you feel it is a large, poorly shifting paperweight. Truthfully, I don't question you as you have been intimate with both. You would know which one feels and performs better, regardless of cost.

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

I seriously doubt the Porsche unit will hold up to the mods I would do to the LS7 since I used to trash them with my beefed up 4 cyl air-cooled VW engine..... of course that I was trashing was the 5 spd from the 70's & 80's vresions of the 911's on the drag strip with slicks (pretty sure the ONLY part in the 911 tranny I never trashed was the 5th gear syncro ring)..... but still.... we are talking 6-8 times as much HP & torque...

[Kalstar]

Except for the few Recardo/Mendeola boxes out there, most all the other completed GTM are running the P-box, aside from the endurance race car, I have not heard of one popped P-box and some of these cars are running power well above what a modified LS7 will produce. I have driven a GTM with the Mendeola, shifted nice and was cleaner in the engagement feel then the P-box. If you can justify the increased cost, then I say go for it.

BTW, I think the Mendeola is rated at 550/550 so be careful with what you throw at it too.

[carbon fiber]

i'm considering staying at the 500-550hp level now, and use a g96. i always go overboard when i build something, to the point where it's undrivable. 550hp should be almost undrivable with 2500 lbs and street tires anyway! i got the gtm so i could run a near stock ls3 376/480 and do more driving than working on it, i think i'm gonna stick with the original plan.

[The Stig]

i'm considering staying at the 500-550hp level now, and use a g96. i always go overboard when i build something, to the point where it's undrivable. 550hp should be almost undrivable with 2500 lbs and street tires anyway! i got the gtm so i could run a near stock ls3 376/480 and do more driving than working on it, i think i'm gonna stick with the original plan.

I think that's an excellent idea! Unless you're building the car primarily for the track, I can't help but believe that you'll have a lot more fun with it if you're not constantly fighting the fine line between horse power and grip.

Smart call.

Mike

[mikespms]

I used all the corvette systems in my car and for any one going that route a 2011 donor is the way to go, there are plenty of suspension part available at good prices. As far as the tranaxle the original Mendeola deal was good but it took for ever to come thru,I found a G96-50 LSD out of a twin turbo rebuild at a local porsche shop and was able to use the F5 supplied adaptor and flywheel , the whole set up clutch,cv's,new Bosch starter,Porsche shifter and cables for under 7 thousand. Not all the G96's are the same the good ones have 9" ring and pinions and can handle the power, do your reaseach not all of them can use the kit's supplied adapter and flywheel. Good luck with your build and enjoy it.

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

I "AM" researching in my spare time.. currently looking into a "Griffin Gearbox"... (based on the Doug Nash) they even make a 7 speed ;).....

[AGH]

Knowing what I know now I would only use a C6 donor. Refer to my thread "C5 and C6 donor build" and check out the build on www.aghcars.com

There are more or less parts that need to come from a C5 depending on how much work you are willing to invest. Knowing what I know now I would have only used a C6 donor. If a good deal can be had on a salvage C6 and you are confident in your abilities I would say go with the C6, especially if it is a Z06 and you are using the LS7.

I have been photographing components side by side and will at some point post the comparisons.

Here is a list so far:

The size and overall geometry of the suspension components on the C5 and C6 is identical and will bolt in place. All four spindles are interchangable and use the same bearing units. The C6 spindle castings however are much beefier. The front arms are directly interchangable and use the same ball joints.

There is a significant difference with the rear arms. The leaf spring on a C6 does not mount to the arm, it just rides on it so there is no hole and boss to mount the coil over bracket. A modification and new bracket may possibly be made but at this point I'm using C5 arms.

Brakes on the C6 and C5 are interchangable and further C6 Z06 brakes are much bigger and will work better.

Hand brake assembly is identical.

Gas tanks are essentially the same and can be used.

Radiator and fan will work.

Steering column actually works better, they are already short and do not need to be modified nearly as much, telescoping motor is set up much better than the C5

Wiring is much tidier in a C6 and if using the LS7 you can retain features such as Cruise control, etc.

Window tracks and motors are nearly identical and can be used

Wiper motor is smaller than the C5 and can be used.

Mirrors will work

C5 manual door hardware can be obtained if you don't want go to the trouble of using the electric latches as I am.

Any other small C5 stuff can be easily had.

Any other items I forgot?


Aaron

GTM #403

[flotowngtm]

FYI. We have been waiting on that Griffin for about 2 years now.

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

Hummmmm...

Ok, I have had a chance to check out a few other threads that have put me back in " head scratching" mode...
Since the GTM is designed to be a very " go fast" vehicle, why isn't it laid out with an"approved" cage/frame to begin with? If it were "approved" from the factory, wouldn't the cost to produce be basicly the same yet save on builer expences (add in tubing, additional fab time, re-finishing the frame, ect, ect)... I understand not everyone that builds a GTM will be putting it on the track, but isn't the whole point behind the added cage safety &for a vehicle that is rated to go "race track" speeds right out of the box shouldn't that safety feature be designed into it from the start? ( Not trying to stir anything up, just wondering)...

[flotowngtm]

I feel your pain Cowboy. Currently were trying to add in a secound rear hoop with a diagional bar. Just waiting on the seats to see how it will fit. The factory rear hoop is so far to the rear of the car its really hard to get the GTM approved. If your going to try to get it appproved your going to have to make a lot of mods. With the labor and parts in that and the price of the GTM going up. Hate to say it but the SLC might become something to look at closer.

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

Nawwwww...think I'll still go with the GTM... the only cost increase for me will be time (& head scratches &a little more fiberglass) since I keep a supply of tubing & such on hand and I will be doing all the body work myself too. Besides, I am planning a few body mods anyways... {I can't have mine looking like anyone elses... } :D

[crash]

I feel your pain Cowboy. Currently were trying to add in a secound rear hoop with a diagional bar. Just waiting on the seats to see how it will fit. The factory rear hoop is so far to the rear of the car its really hard to get the GTM approved. If your going to try to get it appproved your going to have to make a lot of mods. With the labor and parts in that and the price of the GTM going up. Hate to say it but the SLC might become something to look at closer.

FYI-The SLC requires the addition of more bars than the GTM. Yes they have a retrofit kit, so that helps a little, but basically the SLC is in the exact same boat as the GTM when it comes to being legal for sanctioned competition racing as originally built. As you said Comboy, I have no idea why a legal cage was not built into these designs from the beginning. It sure would have made things easier for a lot of people.

[Taz Rules]

Helo,
I agree, get the engine out of that car. Buy a custom harness, get the rest of the stuff off ebay. You don't need much. A arms, tanks, steering wheel.

Taz......... Could you please show us a GTM gen 2 with bull horns on the hood, with an all white interior.LOL

I'm sorry I just could't resist. Good luck man,
Gene

The idea was too funny to pass up!

16800

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

The idea was too funny to pass up!

16800

TOOOOOOOOOOOOO funny..... (of course that is a faked set of horns & the GTM pic is superimposed over the cattle pic...

I have an old horse statue from when I was a kid... it's a rearing black stallion (looks a whole lot like stallion on the Ferrari emblem) that I plan to make a pedestal for in the grill (complete with teeth) of my GTM & call it the "Ferrari Eater"... :cool:

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

ok... I'm tickled so many builders take the time to click all the pics & post here as well as on dedicated build web pages... but i GOTTA ask.... doesn't building & filling a web page cut into the car building time????? I mean if y'all are as antsy as me about driving the finished product once the actual build has started, wouldn't time spent on building & filling web pages be more productive spent on the reason behind the web page???? I guess I'm to single minded, cuz once I start a build... there is NO thought of using time posting on the web when I could be working o the car...:D

[AGH]

Addition to my previous post,

Although the geometry of all the arms is the same there is a difference with the C6 rear lower arms that may prevent them from being used.
The leaf spring mounting hole was eliminated on the C6 so there is no mounting boss for the lower coil over mounting bracket.
On the C6 the ends of the spring are not attached, they just ride on the arm.
I'm going to explore a solution for this but looks like it is only practical to use C5 rear lowers.
As I swap out the arms I will photograph the parts side by side for reference.

Aaron

GTM #403

[Presto51]

ok... I'm tickled so many builders take the time to click all the pics & post here as well as on dedicated build web pages... but i GOTTA ask.... doesn't building & filling a web page cut into the car building time????? I mean if y'all are as antsy as me about driving the finished product once the actual build has started, wouldn't time spent on building & filling web pages be more productive spent on the reason behind the web page???? I guess I'm to single minded, cuz once I start a build... there is NO thought of using time posting on the web when I could be working o the car...:D

Um Fugly,

To answer your questions.

Yes, but……..

If we didn’t take the time, where would you go to have your questions answered? :confused:

And are you telling us that once you start building, you’re not going to share with us? :(

Ron

[fastthings]

ok... I'm tickled so many builders take the time to click all the pics & post here as well as on dedicated build web pages... but i GOTTA ask.... doesn't building & filling a web page cut into the car building time????? I mean if y'all are as antsy as me about driving the finished product once the actual build has started, wouldn't time spent on building & filling web pages be more productive spent on the reason behind the web page???? I guess I'm to single minded, cuz once I start a build... there is NO thought of using time posting on the web when I could be working o the car...:D

I'm at work.

[AGH]

I had a bit of the same attitude when I began my Roadster build. Wanted to get it done and didn't want to take the time to post anything.

Powered through the build and used the forums extensively for information.

Having the car is great, but for me it is all about the build. Now I really do not care how long the GTM will take to complete, I just keep plugging away and know it will get done.

I took the time to put together my build site because I wanted to give back. I'm with Ron, if nobody took the time there wouldn't be a forum!

Aaron

GTM #403
www.aghcars.com

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

Ron... don't get me wrong... I am verrrrrrrrrry glad folks make the time to offer all the tips & help via these forums... & yes, I fully intend on posting as I build... (although, knowing me... I seriously doubt I'll want to spend the time some folks do) {I suspect I'll spend more "online time" bugging the crap out of other builders for tips on how they dealt with *such & such* issue}…

Aaron... yeah, I have built several vehicles. I always seem to spent way too many non-job hours in the shop & not near enough hours getting the trivial stuff (sleeping, eating, tending the livestock, ect, ect, ect...) done once I start a project...

that said... it will be a bit before I am ready to dive face first into this project... so MAYBE I'll have mellowed a bit more in my old age & will be able to pace myself more than in the past... in which case I would spend more time documenting the build...

Fugly... (aka: JT)

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

I'm still a lonnnnnng ways from reading through all the GTM threads on here but am wondering if anyone has added openings & ducting next to the grill opening... ducted thru coolers (trans on one side, engine oil cooler on the other) & vented back out through the fender vents???

maybe somthing like this... http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/asset.php?fid=13882&uid=10322&d=1366759726

[Roger Reid]

My engine and oil coolers are in the back just inside the diffuser.

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

yeah... I have read quite a bit about folks mounting coolers at the rear diffuser... but I am already thinking of a bit of a face lift on the front end & since I intend to do something somewhat like that C7 I figured those inlets would be put to best use feeding air to coolers.... my concern is will the additional air coming in create a lift issue or will the fender vents shed it as well as the lifting air off the front tires at speed....

[Presto51]

yeah... I have read quite a bit about folks mounting coolers at the rear diffuser... but I am already thinking of a bit of a face lift on the front end & since I intend to do something somewhat like that C7 I figured those inlets would be put to best use feeding air to coolers.... my concern is will the additional air coming in create a lift issue or will the fender vents shed it as well as the lifting air off the front tires at speed....

Try reading this thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?4985-Split-Front-Mounted-Radiators&highlight=split Then talk to Dave. He can give you the skinny on it

Ron

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

wooooooooohooooooooooo.... sold one of my past project trucks today for $12,5000 (had less than $5,000 cash in it)... 1/2 way to kit purchase......

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

is the Mendeola tranny a sequential 5 speed or a H s pattern???

[crash]

is the Mendeola tranny a sequential 5 speed or a H s pattern???

Yes.

Mendeola offers both sequential and H patterned gear boxes. Sequential is only for a track car because of the way you have to shift it. H pattern is very nice for the street. Both versions are customizable with different gear ratios and ring and pinion options.

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

thanks Crash...
how are the Mendeola trannies holding up to the higher HP LS7s & such....( the set up I plan to run should be around 750 HP & 690'# TQ )... ideally, I'd like to run a H pattern 7 speed close ratio box with a top speed around 275 on a 26" tire & a 7000rpm red line....

[crash]

thanks Crash...
how are the Mendeola trannies holding up to the higher HP LS7s & such....( the set up I plan to run should be around 750 HP & 690'# TQ )... ideally, I'd like to run a H pattern 7 speed close ratio box with a top speed around 275 on a 26" tire & a 7000rpm red line....

Mendeola makes a wide range of transaxles. Their largest can handle 2000+ HP. In the smaller cased SDR and SRR boxes they go to about 1000 HP in rating. We run 550+ and have had no issues with the amount of power damaging the transaxle. It is usually the guy grabbing the shifter that causes the wear and tear. You can call Ian at Mendeola at 619-710-8800 extension 110.

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

Mendeola makes a wide range of transaxles. Their largest can handle 2000+ HP. In the smaller cased SDR and SRR boxes they go to about 1000 HP in rating. We run 550+ and have had no issues with the amount of power damaging the transaxle. It is usually the guy grabbing the shifter that causes the wear and tear. You can call Ian at Mendeola at 619-710-8800 extension 110.
I agree 10,000% about the loose nut above the shifter being a main cause of tranny problems.. back when I was racing VW powered drag cars I was pulling 10 second 1/4s & only sheered 1 set of factory VW spiders.. buddy of mine was running an almost exact copy of my engine in a 400# lighter car & he was trashing the VW trannies left & right...

[Fugly_Old_Cowboy]

I could have sworn I saw a link that is supposed to have a map showing the location of finished GTMs... anyone know off hand where that link is???? also, I have noticed "most" of the finished GTMs (or so it seems to me) are gen1... how many of the gen2 kits are out & about???

[scottvette1989]

Check the ffcars site it is at the top of the GTM section.