Shopping time! Spend my money! [Archive]

meganuke

04-01-2013, 02:17 PM

OK, having received the preliminary go-ahead from my better half, I figured I should start getting some of my questions answered. I've been reading a lot, especially the build threads, to find out what the common pain points are. Please chime in and let me know your thoughts. Most of them are not set in stone, so I could be swayed.

In no particular order, here is what I'm looking at so far:

1. FFR Roadster Basic Kit - with all the modifications that I'll likely do, it's probably best to start with the basic kit and add the parts, rather than having a bunch of new parts left over.
2. No donor. This is my dream car, I'm only going to do it once. I want it all new.
3. 3-link rear end. I know the IRS has advantages, but I like the simple, bullet proof design of a solid axle. Any reason to not get the Moser axle that FFR offers?
4. 15" Halibrand wheels for street duty, 17" for track use. I know this will limit my brake choices, so I will get the best brakes available for 15" wheels. Options?
5. I intend to drive the bejeezus out of this car. Autocross, daily driver, track days, road trips, Run & Gun, cruise nights, etc. Reliability will be key.
6. The motor will be a small block Ford. The big block is easy to make big power, but parts availability seems to be better with the small block, while also keeping some weight off the front end. While there is plenty of historical significance to getting a 351 stroked to 427, I don't want to overheat it if I hit traffic or autocross it on a 95 degree day. Is this an issue? I've been looking at various engine options, from Ford Racing to some of the vendors here and elsewhere. So many to choose from! Ideally, I would like an engine that starts around 350 HP but has the strength to be taken over 5-600 HP a couple of years down the road with a supercharger or turbo (or both). I don't know if fuel injection is better for this or if I should stick with carbs. I need lots of help with this one, folks. If it helps, I have plenty of wrenching experience and would not hesitate to build an engine once I know the best parts to use. Start with a Boss 302 engine (444 HP), or a Coyote, or an old school 302?
7. SAI spindles. I'm not entirely sure what this is, but from what I've read, I need it. What's considered the best solution? I don't see any FFR option for this.
8. Power steering. I wavered on this one for a while. I plan to do a lot of driving and don't want to be sweaty from just steering my car around a parking lot. How is the feel on the electric vs. the hydraulic? Are either adjustable for more or less assist? I prefer a quicker rack, if there is one available.
9. Seats. I love the look of the vintage seats. I don't know how comfortable they are, but since I plan to track the car occasionally, are these my best option? Is it difficult to swap in a race seat for track days?
10. Dual roll bars. I like the symmetrical look.
11. Transmission. I'd love a 6 speed for the street manners, but haven't found anyone that's done it successfully. Is it simply a limitation on space? How are these on the highway with a 5 speed and the FFR axle around 75 mph?
12. Marine wipers. I know I'll need these over the cable system.
13. Is anyone around CT or MA that would like to get together for a cup of coffee or a pint of beer to tell me about their build and maybe take me for a ride?

Thanks for all the good reading. I look forward to hearing your suggestions.

CraigS

04-01-2013, 03:47 PM

6. Go 351 from the start. Then you will already have the intake and exhaust that will fit up to that 427. If you start 302 you will need to change intake and exhaust to go to 351.A plain 351 shortblock w/ a mild cam and edelbrock heads and intake is 400 hp. I'd put that in to start and then do a stroker kit later.
7. Get the FFR spindles. They are an in-house design that incorporates all the SAI etc upgrades.
8.Yes you can adjust assist. The top end unit is electric from Fast Freddie. Assist adjusted w/ a screw. There is no difference in feel as you still have hydraulic power assist. It's just that the pressure is supplied by an electric pump instead of a belt driven pump.
9. I know the looks aren't the greatest but the FFR Kirkeys or the ultrashield (http://www.ultrashieldrace.com/prod.php?id=7) are great seats. You will not want to do any performance driving in the standard seats. You will be surprised that w/ a little extra foam the alum seats are quite comfortable.Another option for period looks is the kirkey classic.http://www.kirkeyracing.com/index.php?link=browse&code=Series41V
You should do a headrest if you get this one.
11. A 6 speed is too long for a solid axle car cause it would make the drive shaft too short. TKO600 gives you options for first and 5th gear ratios but some say it shifts a little stiff.
HTH

edwardb

04-01-2013, 07:12 PM

CraigS answered most of the ones I was going to. My input.

6. Use the Afco supplied radiator from FFR (not included with the basic kit), shroud the cooling fan, and you shouldn't have cooling issues. It's a well proven setup.

7. x2. Just get the new FFR spindles and be done with it. Built-in SAI mod, reduced bump steer, no messing with donor spindles. No brainer.

8. Common mistake. As CraigS explained, the kit from Freddie uses an electric pump vs. and engine driven pump, but in the end the assist is still hydraulic. The kit from Freddie is really nice if you're adding to an already built car. If starting a build, maybe consider using an engine driven pump. Quite a bit less money. Just configure your engine accordingly. You can still get the adjustment with a Heidt's valve.

11. X2 on the 6-speed. Not going to happen with a 3-link. You have lots of options with different T-5 or TKO final drives and rear end ratios. There are calculators out there to help make the right choices. Match to the power band of your engine. I drove my 5-speed Mk3 1,800 miles last season. Mostly town driving, cruising, etc. Never felt like I didn't have good gear choices.

12. I'm not as negative as many about the FFR/Lucas vintage style wipers. I've seen lots of alternatives guys have tried, but with all due respect, don't find any very interesting. The weak point of the FFR supplied wipers, in my opinion, are the cheap wheel boxes FFR provides. ********** sells a vastly superior wheel box that in my experience yields a very workable wiper setup.

narkosys

04-01-2013, 08:08 PM

they are right about the T6 not fitting the solid axles. You can still go with a T6 BUT!!! you are relegated to using the IRS rear end which comes at much greater expense.

edit: re-read your post and noticed your love of the 3-link. No go on the T6. btw: Gordon Levy sells a great 5-link system (http://levyracing.com/store/levy-racing-5-link-rear-suspension) that you may want to look into.

Good luck with your build. Looking forward to the pictures.

P

QSL

04-01-2013, 08:32 PM

Looks great, few comments though...

-Complete kit comes with very few parts that you will not use unless you plan to use a fuel cell, power brakes, billet arms, power steering. If you plan on doing a pretty straight forward build, then complete is the way to go. We did not use about $300 worth of stuff, but the convenience of having EVERYTHING at your finger tips rocked.

-Based on your power goals. Stay away from 15's. A lot of people lose control in these cars and I really believe its because of the tires. Two things that you don't skimp on are tires and brakes. We are running 17" wheels with 315's in the rear kumho XS tires. We have 540hp and have not even had one scary moment of driving. 15's look AWESOME, but 17's look pretty dang good too.

-There are mods you can do to the stock seats to make them more comfortable.

-3 link is great, don't let anyone scare you away from it.

-I love my stock manual steering. But its not for everyone. I find it very easy to steer at the slowest speeds. For my wifes car we purchased fast freedies electric steering because she is a wuss. From what I understand, the adjustability on that unit is really good.

CONGRATS!!!!

Oh yea, last tip. Don't take the things you read as the only way to do something. Always use your best judgment at the end. Your gut knows what it wants :)

narkosys

04-01-2013, 09:15 PM

Oh yea, last tip. Don't take the things you read as the only way to do something. Always use your best judgment at the end. Your gut knows what it wants :)

^what he said. :D

P

Gordon Levy

04-01-2013, 10:25 PM

4)I can help with brakes. Currently designing a new kit to fit 15" wheel. I have some killer 6 piston 13" kits to fit 17" wheels.
6) I can build you an engine from 400-800+hp and I have the cooling systems to keep it cool. I have 600hp cars w/AC that stay cool on 115 degree days.

emac

04-02-2013, 08:51 AM

A couple of my thoughts. I built my car from the complete kit. I was pretty happy with most of the parts included. I went with IRS and didnt find it very complex (except for the FFR axle problem that is now resolved). I sold most of the leftover parts on the forum, and right now the only big part left over is the manual rack. Most of my upgrades were add ons, not replacing FFR stuff. Glovebox, battery box, fan shroud, burp tank, etc.

After it was complete, I found the steering to be pretty heavy. I am running 15" billboards, so that doesnt help. I upgraded to PS. Best upgrade. I would think the manual steering would wear you out on a long track day. So, my advice is to research the PS, and set up your engine pulleys/water pump so PS can be added later if you need it. It isnt hard to retrofit. I went with an AGR cobra rack and a custom tuned Jones Racing Products pump. Also, when you go with PS you can dial in more caster which I think made my car drive better.

I am happy with the manual brakes. Clutch cable works fine, but if I had it to do over I might consider hydraulic.

Have fun!

ernest

Bob Cowan

04-02-2013, 09:16 AM

In no particular order, here is what I'm looking at so far:

1. FFR Roadster Basic Kit - with all the modifications that I'll likely do, it's probably best to start with the basic kit and add the parts, rather than having a bunch of new parts left over.

I like the basic kit. Shopping and ordering the exact parts you want gets you the exact car you want. And, admit it, shopping for car parts is kinda fun.

3. 3-link rear end. I know the IRS has advantages, but I like the simple, bullet proof design of a solid axle. Any reason to not get the Moser axle that FFR offers?

Moser has been an industry leader forever. I wouldn't hesitate to buy their parts. OTOH, the IRS.......

4. 15" Halibrand wheels for street duty, 17" for track use. I know this will limit my brake choices, so I will get the best brakes available for 15" wheels. Options?

Limiting brake size will definatly limit brake options, and brake performance. On the street it won't really matter. But on the track, big brakes are very important. Either way you go, call Gordon.

6. The motor will be a small block Ford.

The Coyote and Mod Motors are pretty awesome. But, you're kinda limited on upgrades and power production. You can't make a Coyote much more than 5.0l. You can get 500hp out of them, but it requires forced induction and careful tuning. For big reliable power you want a big reliable engine that's not maxed out on power.

If I were building another car, I'd call Mike Forte and have him build me a huge 351W motor out of a Dart block. It would make enough torque to pull a house of the foundation, and last forever.

EFI is the way to go. There's some really good systems available that are dead nuts reliable, make excellent power, and will be easy to drive in all situations. If you decide to add forced induction later, it's a simple retune with a computer. I'm a huge fan of performance EFI.

8. Power steering.

Not really needed for street driving. A nice to have for a road course. And a Must Have for autocross. If you use 15" brakes, consider hydroboost brakes and power steering. Talk to Gordon first, though. He tells me his big brake kit (for 17" wheels) doesn't do well with power brakes - too sensitive.

9. Seats. I love the look of the vintage seats. I don't know how comfortable they are, but since I plan to track the car occasionally, are these my best option? Is it difficult to swap in a race seat for track days?

I wouldn't use anything but a high back seat - street or track. For the track you definatly want a high back seat with proper bolstering to hold you in place. On the street I like the safety of a high back seat. Bad things happen on the street more than they do on the track.

FFR used to offer a good seat as an option. Now you can get a Cobra Clubman, which is the same seat without the FFR logo. A good track seat, and a very comfortable long distance cruiser seat.

10. Dual roll bars. I like the symmetrical look.

Good idea for any track time. You can't have anyone in the passenger seat on the track without a roll bar. Not even an instructor. Personally, I like the look of a single wide roll bar. FFR doesn't offer that any more, but can easily be made.

Thanks for all the good reading. I look forward to hearing your suggestions.

But, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. ;)

meganuke

04-02-2013, 10:59 AM

Thanks for the feedback so far. I really appreciate it!

CraigS - the more I think about it, the more I love the idea of having 427 cubic inches. Thanks for the seat links. I think I'm going to have to sit in a few different ones to see what fits me.

Edwardb - Thanks for the tip on the radiator. I'll probably go with the complete kit for this reason and the spindles. BTW, I drove 1500+ miles last *weekend*. I'm always driving somewhere!

QSL - Hmmm...I didn't realize that power brakes weren't part of the normal package. I knew ABS was out, but could be put in with enough time, money and patience. Should I go for power brakes? In day-to-day driving, I'm sure I could lock up the tires with manual brakes, but what about a track day? Are they so stiff that I'd get tired after a few laps? Love your build threads, BTW. Your wife's writing is very entertaining! I'm afraid the 15s are going to stay for street use. But if it helps, I drive like an old fart on the street. On the track, I drive like an old fart who's had too much metamucil and ran out of depends!

Gordon Levy - Thanks, I'm sure I'll be in touch soon.

emac - If I go power brakes, does it make it easier to go hydraulic clutch at the same time? Or does that just add more unnecessary complexity? I love the look of those billboards! I hear they're pretty sticky, though, and of questionable legality on the street. How do they wear? Is there a treadwear rating that could be compared to a more common tire, like the BFG T/A, for example?

Bob Cowan - You are so right about the fun of car parts shopping! It's been way too long since I've had a project to work on, so I really miss the daily visit from the UPS guy. It's like every day is Christmas!

I filled out one of the FFR surveys and have a 10% code to use before May. I'm not sure if the kit will be ordered by then. Should I order some of the add-ons that I know I want? Like the Halibrand wheels, or the rear end? I think it could add up to significant savings.

Thanks again for all the feedback. I hope to put faces to names someday!

QSL

04-02-2013, 11:06 AM

The brake setup included in the complete kit is a wildwood pedal box and manual brakes. We upgraded to the wildwood manual brakes and they work excellent. We are even going manual on julies car because there is no reason to use power brakes.

Don't waste your 10% on wheels. You can either negotiate them for free or a good deal when you purchase the kit. OR you can wait until black Friday and buy them on sale. You should never pay over $600 for them. They don't usually give discounts on axles or brakes so those would be decent things to use it on.

meganuke

04-02-2013, 11:39 AM

I thought of another question. How are these cars typically registered? Are they titled as 1965, or current year? I know this makes a big difference in some states due to emissions laws. Has anyone gone through this in NC? I may end up there by the time the kit is ordered. Could that determine whether I have to go fuel injected or carbureted?

QSL

04-02-2013, 11:43 AM

check your states DMV site and search for specially constructed vehicles. In CA, you can use any engine but it needs to have the same equipment that was required in 1965 as that's the smog year it will be based on. The car is registered as a special construction with the year you built the car and its considered a 65 body type.

meganuke

04-02-2013, 12:01 PM

Looks like NC treats a replica as whatever year it's replicating. I didn't find specific equipment requirements, but I don't think I'll have too much of an issue with that.

tcoon

04-02-2013, 01:22 PM

I agree with most of the above but will put in a plug for the coyote motor. After racing the stock mustang 5.0 challenge car for 3 seasons with zero reliability problems, then doing the new 100 hp upgrade and being forced from the series due to terrible reliability, I have become very fond of OEM reliability! The coyote offers approc 400 RWHP with a mild tune, has OEM starting, idling, and drivability, and comes with a 2 yr 24,000 mi warranty! And with all that it's substantially cheaper than any built small or big block you can conceive. The current challenge cars with 320 RWHP are stink fast, and with 400 the car is far beyond the driving capabilities of all but the most accomplished racers. 500 hp in these cars is for bragging rights only and is un drivable for most people. I know...I have a coupe with 550 hp 427 Windsor and rarely get it off idle! For my money, my new racing coupe with the coyote, stock engine comfiguration, offers more power, 100 lb less weight, modern reliability. And it looks crazy cool!

meganuke

04-02-2013, 01:52 PM

What sort of reliability issues did you face? Was it caused by the 100HP upgrade, bad luck, or something else?

Are you thinking I should do something like this? Coyote block with lower compression pistons for a supercharger: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=12763

The 427 is 535 HP and would be a bit cheaper: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=11832

A stock Coyote block has come down quite a bit in price, but I'm unsure of the upgradability. If I want to make it ridiculous (550+ HP), will the block handle it, or am I better off getting a whole new motor? Or is the Aluminator XS a better starting point? http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=23300

Thanks tcoon!

edwardb

04-02-2013, 05:44 PM

Couple of follow up comments.

Don't let guys on here talk you out of power steering. You said right up front your build will be used for track days, auto cross, etc. Anyone who's doing that will confirm that power steering is just about a must. Also as correctly pointed out by emac, PS isn't just about reduced effort. It's also about a more optimal front end alignment setup that can only be managed with PS. The single regret from my Mk3 build was not putting in PS. My Mk4 will have PS. I guess that officially makes me a wuss too.

Regarding PB. My recommendation is to use the brakes as they were originally designed. I have 4-wheel Cobra disks on my Mk3. 13 inch front, 11.65 rear. They were originally designed for power. I have the Whitby vacuum PB setup, and the car stops very well with reasonable pedal effort. Hydroboost would be another option, especially if you go with PS. But if you install brakes designed as manual -- like the Wilwoods -- they don't need power assist to work really well. In fact as mentioned could make them too sensitive.

You asked if you go PB, does it make it easier to go hydraulic clutch at the same time? Really those are completely separate decisions. The systems are not technically related. If you are thinking about hydraulic clutch, then think about the Wilwood pedal box used in the complete kit. Although FFR mods it to use a cable, it's designed to have a master cylinder and drive a clutch slave cylinder. It's an easy setup. That's what I'm doing on my Mk4 build.

Finally, sorry you weren't impressed with how much I drove my Mk3 last season. :( The point I was trying to make was I had real practical experience driving a 5-speed quite a lot, and it's fine. A 6-speed would be nice (I guess) but really don't think you would be disappointed with a 5-speed. In reality, think 4-speed for most. 5th is only useful at highway speeds. Don't find that gear too often in town and keep it legal.

Enjoy the planning and the build. I sure do.

meganuke

04-03-2013, 07:00 AM

Sorry edwardb, I didn't mean to diminish your seat time. I don't know how easy or difficult it is to put that kind of mileage on one of these. I was only trying to give you an idea of how much I intend to drive mine once it's complete. It sounds like the 5 speed will be just fine.

On some cars (modern VWs come to mind), the clutch and brake hydraulic system are combined. Same fluid, but there is a second chamber in the master for the clutch. I didn't know if there was a similar setup for these. I will look into the Whitby stuff. I don't think I can get 13" rotors inside a 15" wheel, though.

tcoon - Looks like my reply from yesterday didn't go through. What was the weak link that caused your reliability issues? Was it the 100 HP upgrade? I was looking at the Ford Aluminator engines as well as the 351W based engines. One thing I'm concerned about is the complexity of the Coyote engine. Aren't there many more sensors and electrical connections? Are parts generally more expensive when you do have to repair them? I haven't heard of any weak links in the Coyote, but I haven't really been looking at them too closely.

tcoon

04-03-2013, 01:46 PM

Reliability issues were twofold. Biggest problem was a bent crank. Challenge rules at the time demanded an OEM crank, all of those now being 20 yrs old. Long story short ended up blowing the engine twice before we figured that one out! Others had similar problems and the new rules allow any OEM dimension crank, ie billet or forged. Second problem was electrical, again since all OEM replacements required had lots of problem with adequate spark, leading to recurring high speed miss which required replacement of entire engine electrical system. This can all be fixed with upgraded aftermarket components, but the point is that all costs a lot of money, and the Ford Racing coyote package comes with a matched system of components, all engineered by mega dollars to 2011 standards. It comes with oil in the crankcase and spark plugs installed. All for $6200 from Summit, in my driveway in 2 days! (no waiting 6 weeks for Bubba to hone the 20 year old 200,000 mile block). I spent more than that for my long block 302, then had to buy injectors, ignition, MAF, throttle body, front accessories, yada yada. And Ford gives a warranty as long as you don't race it. I'm just sayin'...

tcoon

04-03-2013, 02:14 PM

emac

04-03-2013, 02:48 PM

emac - If I go power brakes, does it make it easier to go hydraulic clutch at the same time? Or does that just add more unnecessary complexity? I love the look of those billboards! I hear they're pretty sticky, though, and of questionable legality on the street. How do they wear? Is there a treadwear rating that could be compared to a more common tire, like the BFG T/A, for example?

Thanks again for all the feedback. I hope to put faces to names someday!

I would think it would be easiest to run all the hydraulics at the same time, mounting multiple resovoirs and lines would be easier with everything apart. It gets tight fast when the body goes on! The complete kit comes with the pedal assembly, so I cant speak for what others do with a donor pedal box.

Billboards are NOT street legal and are very sticky. They throw lots of rocks. I dont know the treadwear, but my guess is pretty low. They will probably dry rot before I wear them out! They just look the part.

Keep searching, posting, and reading.....it will all start to sink in and make sense. I enjoyed the build and learning as much as I do driving the completed car! In SC we are registered as 1965 cars, so property tax is about $30/year. Nice bonus. The other site has an extensive forum on registration, and it was very helpful on getting my car registered.

ernest

edwardb

04-03-2013, 02:49 PM

With the coyote you do need to buy the ford racing control pack (computer) which includes drive by wire throttle. That runs $1500. It is a stand alone system with a pretty basic 4 wire hookup. Not at all hard. The engine harness comes already assembled, nothing even to plug in. Everything plug and play, mine started right out of the box, there's not even any timing to set. Everything else is stock 2011 Mustang, so it's fairly cheap and parts availability better every day, as opposed to 20 year old Mustang parts getting harder to find every day. I have 3 cars with 302/351 based platforms, lots of spare parts, etc, but I must say this coyote is impressive as hell!

I agree the Coyote is an impressive setup, and a decent value for what you get. I'm glad you added this follow-up, because the $6200 price in your previous post wasn't quite the whole picture. The additional accessories required (starter, alternator, etc.) are added costs as well. Not super cheap, but not unlike 302/351 parts if you buy decent quality. I've seen the FFR factory Mk4 with the Coyote installed in person. It's tight, with lots of wiring, but it looks really good in there and can't argue with the reliability, performance, etc. I really wanted to do a Coyote in my recently started Mk4 Roadster build. I did a lot of studying, talked to some people, and decided against. It's doable for sure (many have been successful) but it's not plug and play yet. Headers are still unresolved, at least as I understand, and there are lots of things you need to work through, some fabrication, mods, etc. Being somewhat of a beginner (my Mk3 was the first build of this type I've ever attempted) I decided to go another direction. If you have the knowledge and experience to work through it, I agree it's a great solution.

For the record, I'm doing a DART based 347 on my Mk4. Having the short block professionally built by a highly regarded builder. To the point of "20 year old Mustang parts" literally the only Ford parts in the entire engine (and I do mean the whole thing, every part) will be the Fox front timing cover and the Ford Racing valve covers. Everything else is will be new very high quality aftermarket parts including all forged internals, etc. For my purposes, it should be way more power than I really need and impossible to break. In the end, the cost will be very similar to a Coyote solution. But will be "drop-in" for the build, which for me is important, and I can work on the engine should it be necessary. Plus I like the old school aspect.

No right answer for everyone. Every build is different, and according to the builders wants, needs, budget, requirement, etc.

10 10 Flyin

04-03-2013, 07:01 PM

Gordon forgot to mention he can help on the transmission also. I have a T5 with upgraded gears. The "road race" gear ratios. Tall 1st gear, shorter overdrive ratio
and it is one of my favorite mods. It handles 400 RWHP no problem.

What gauges? I like the speed hut with the gps speedo - solved pickup up issue caused by using a midshift transmission.

If you plan to autocross alot, the powersteering will be appreciated. Definitely not necessary but appreciated. It will also allow you to comfortable run a little more castor which will help reduce effects of bump steer.

Your making the easy decisions now. Just wait til it becomes time to pick a paint color . . . .

meganuke

04-04-2013, 07:04 AM

edwardb

04-04-2013, 08:06 AM

edwardb - Your build sounds great. Your reasoning sounds very similar to mine. This will be my first major build, so I do want it to go together as painlessly as possible. I thought they had all the kinks worked out with the Coyote now, since they had the modified footboxes and the fitment kit. FFR is showing headers and J-pipes for the Coyote. Don't they fit? I was planning a budget of $10K for the engine, with accessories, control packs, etc. Is that realistic for a 302 or a Coyote, or am I way off?

How much you spend on an engine really depends. (sorry to sound like a consultant -- work joke) For the Coyote build, probably pretty predicable. For a 302/351 build, wide variations in what parts you choose, how much you do yourself, level of performance, etc. You can spend less than you suggested and have a great motor (many have certainly done it) or you can spend a lot more.

Regarding the Coyote decision, others with real experience are going to be much better sources. I can only give you my opinion/observations based on: (1) Lots of forum traffic about Coyote builds. Check them out. Most will be on the other forum. Will describe some of what it takes, and also more details about the headers among other things. (2) As I mentioned before, looking at the FFR factory Mk4 with the Coyote installed. It's quite tight in the engine compartment plus takes some room away from the driver and passenger. I have enough challenges working on a small block in the Roadster. Big blocks and mod motors are really tight. There's also a lot of wiring, not only to install but I just like the cleaner look of the old school carb'd motors in these cars. (3) Even with my limited skill and knowledge, I can work on the 302/351 motors. Parts are relatively cheap and available, lots of knowledge/experience out there if needed, etc. I would not think of cracking open a Coyote motor. On the other hand, for this application they're not likely to break plus have a warranty. So the risk is certainly minimized. (4) Finally, this was after my decision, but will offer just FWIW. A few weeks ago I had my Mk3 in the Detroit Autorama show in the FFR booth. Had a chance to talk to lots of people including current owners and customers. Talked to one guy for quite awhile. He was doing a Mk4 with a Coyote build. He was quite frustrated about the amount of work, fabrication, issues, etc. required. He went into the build thinking FFR had it "all worked out" when in his opinion they didn't, and it was still very much a custom build that he was pretty much on his own to figure out. Probably some of that (all?) needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because everyone is different, with different expectations, skills, etc. He may have had the same issues with a standard SBF build. Some think because these are kits they should go together like a plastic model. They don't. Every one is custom to some degree. But the conversation only reinforced in my mind anyway that for me it was the right decision. For others, including maybe you, it might be perfect.

Like someone else said, you are only at the very beginning of lots of decisions. Regarding color -- I only changed my mind three times after I had it at the painter! Very happy with the red/white choice on my Mk3, and it's looking more and more like the Mk4 will be similar. But plenty of time to change my mind a whole bunch more times. :rolleyes:

lilnuke

04-04-2013, 09:39 AM

Looks like NC treats a replica as whatever year it's replicating. I didn't find specific equipment requirements, but I don't think I'll have too much of an issue with that.

NC now registers as the year it replicates, 1965.

Depending on your county, you may or may not get a license and theft inspector who is fickle about your proof of ownership of the frame, engine, and transmission. The frame is easy, just use the MCO. If your engine and transmission does not have a serial number and/or your bill of sale does not have that serial number, you may be forced to get an indemnity bond to register the car. Just a pain in the butt and more money you have to spend on the bond and two (2) appraisals. Make sure your paperwork is in order and you should be fine.

Basic path to registration:
- Mostly finish the car

- Obtain LT-270 from DMV License and Theft inspector (making sure you did not steal the parts) He will also assign VIN, will use the FFR number on frame.

- Fill out MVR-1 (Application for title) & form 92H (Affidavit of facts)

- If necessary:
- Obtain two written appraisals
- Obtain indemnity bond for 1.5% highest appaisal

- Obtain insurance

- Have car inspected (Safety only)

- Make a notorized copy of everything (In case DMV loses your paperwork)

- Go to DMV, pay title fee & 3% tax

meganuke

04-05-2013, 07:22 AM

Thanks for that info, lilnuke.

I intend to order some parts to use my 10% coupon today. I don't think I can store the rear end at this point (no garage as of today), so it would have to be something smaller. I was thinking gauges, the second roll bar, and/or wheels. I figured I would get the options that I definitely want on my roadster. Thoughts?

meganuke

04-09-2013, 07:27 AM

edwardb

04-09-2013, 07:44 AM

I did a lot of reading over the weekend. I'm still torn on the new tech vs. old tech for the engine. The Coyote (once you get the kinks worked out on the install) will run like a champ and provide that OEM reliability, but it looks like it'll cost $7650 for just the engine and control pack. Ford and others have a lot of carbureted engines at similar power levels for the same or less money. I'm not sure which will cost more to fully finish. I know the old tech will need a carb and intake manifold. The new tech will need the PCM and ??? They'll both need plugs, wires, water pump and a power steering pump.

FWIW, saw this on Summit's website this past weekend. A "Summit Racing® Factory Five Mk4 Roadster Combo, 5.0L Coyote Engine, Kit" for $9,300 + shipping. I can't vouch (at all) if the components listed are all necessary or even the best choice, or that there aren't other sources that would be cheaper. But probably a reasonable estimate of what's required to install and setup. At least something more to study.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-csumffc12/overview/

Is it reasonable to get a complete engine with 400+ HP for under $9000? Can you get 500 HP for under $10K?

Yes to both questions in my opinion. Some would say pretty easily. But many variables including carb vs. EFI, warranty, reliability (perceived or otherwise), emissions/title/license requirements, how much you're willing to do vs. turnkey, all weigh into the final choices and cost.

So I have to ask... You're asking a lot of questions and trying (it seems) to make some tough decisions. Have you ridden or driven one of these yet? High HP is cool and great for bragging with the boys. But 300 - 400 HP is considered by many to be the sweet spot of still great performance but also high streetability. Just something to think about.