View Full Version : This thing going to come with a roof?
nevinsb
03-30-2013, 08:07 AM
I was wondering if there was going to be an option for a removable hard/soft top for the 818? I'm really looking forward to getting one when I get back from Afghanaland, but the weather in WI can be a little unpredictable.
joshuo
03-30-2013, 08:36 AM
There will be a softtop available, figure a ~ $3,000.00 option.
A targa and coupe versions are rumored but nothing official yet.
RM1SepEx
03-30-2013, 08:38 AM
A quote from Dave himself... A soft top will be avail upon release of the kit...
I expect it will be rather expensive relative to kit price... $3000 ?????
Silvertop
03-30-2013, 09:08 AM
A quote from Dave himself... A soft top will be avail upon release of the kit...
I expect it will be rather expensive relative to kit price... $3000 ?????
I'm hoping it will be less costly than that. But I'll be ponying up......... Gotta have a top!
blueafro
03-30-2013, 12:04 PM
Three possibilities:
1) An Elise or Boxster Spyder style frame of a few stringers you slot in place when you need the top, and a single piece of cloth you stretch over it. In this case, if it cost $3,000, I'd hope the frame were crafted from unobtanium tubing and the covering from the skin of an endangered sea mammal.
2) Repurposing of an OEM top, probably with custom clear plastic side curtains to match the 818. With new components, that could easily hit $3k. The obvious option would be to use an MR2 Spyder top to match the MR2 Spyder windshield, but from the frame and body photos we've seen, it doesn't look like there is room, and if that were the plan, I expect we'd have been told earlier. A guy on another forum is home building a sports car using this windshield and top, but he started his design with the top as the basis for the entire design.
3) A home grown folding OEM style top, custom developed for the 818. If this is the case, then no wonder it's taking a while to finalize, and no wonder people are expecting to have to pay a lot. This could end up being the best top, but it also won't be cheap.
What is the weather like out there by the Massachusetts coast? I would have guessed a lot of rainfall. It's a little curious to see two small kit sports cars under development there, at the same time, for which a roof is the last thing to be finalized.
Kalstar
03-30-2013, 12:22 PM
Yes, you get them at Harbor Freight they come in green, blue and silver.
AZPete
03-30-2013, 04:47 PM
"It's a little curious to see two small kit sports cars under development there, at the same time, for which a roof is the last thing to be finalized."
Yup, it can rain in MA but Factory Five has sold over 6,000 roadsters with no tops! They don't make tops so they arranged for other companies to make soft tops for the roadster. One was okay and recently FFR had another company make a much better top, but it is more money. It looks to me like FFR will do the same for the 818 by using their contacts and experience to have another company make a soft top. I'm also guessing it will be in the range of $3,000 because it's a low production product, but the price and availability will be up to the maker.
Pete
philly15
03-30-2013, 07:03 PM
I was wondering if there was going to be an option for a removable hard/soft top for the 818? I'm really looking forward to getting one when I get back from Afghanaland, but the weather in WI can be a little unpredictable.
woohoo another person from wisconsin!! where in wisconsin you from and when you get back, and when is your kit date lol
Hayai
03-30-2013, 07:25 PM
Oh look, this thread again.
metalmaker12
03-30-2013, 07:27 PM
Lol
Mechie3
03-31-2013, 07:40 AM
I planned to have my mom make me a simple sun shade top. Attach to the windshield and attach to two or three brackets on the rear roll bar. It wouldn't keep all the rain/sun out, but it'd keep the sun off the majority of the inside and in a pinch, would prevent the rain from coming straight down on your head and only coming int he side.
metalmaker12
03-31-2013, 07:49 AM
Lol
Samiam1017
03-31-2013, 11:41 AM
Is there any word that the windshield frame is definetly not from the MR2 spyder? So body mentioned on another thread that its not ?
RM1SepEx
03-31-2013, 02:02 PM
It IS from the MR2 Spyder...
JeromeS13
03-31-2013, 03:51 PM
I was under the impression that the actual glass windshield is from the MR2, but the frame wasn't...
Xusia
03-31-2013, 04:46 PM
Correct.
metalmaker12
03-31-2013, 05:20 PM
+1 it is mr2 window and FFR frame
RM1SepEx
03-31-2013, 06:26 PM
sorry... didn't notice FRAME... windshield only as per Dave. As you can imagine you couldn't find enough frames from cars to support any volume builds unless the single donor was the MR2 and they are not very common and severely underpowered!
bnr32jason
03-31-2013, 07:44 PM
Have there been any hints made to a rough price estimate for a basic soft top?
Living in the Seattle area, it can be cloudy all day and not rain a drop or it can rain all day long, you just can't tell. So I would like to have a basic top just to hold me over until I get home if it does decide to start raining.
Samiam1017
03-31-2013, 07:53 PM
My thoughts were that if its an MR2 syder frame and at roughly the same angle the. A soft or hard top might be able to be modified to work. Also the door window and mechanism would be really close also if they (818/mr2) had roughly the same size door
metalmaker12
03-31-2013, 08:12 PM
2-3k was a suggested price I got from a FFR insider at moochfeast
mekeys
03-31-2013, 08:17 PM
$3000 for the top...One third of the price of the basic kit..That lets me out..
Mel
nevinsb
04-01-2013, 02:53 AM
Wow, didn't realize it would cost that much. We have a place out by us that makes custom toneau covers and jeep soft tops that might be a better option.
I'm in the Lake Geneva area. I should be back in winter, and will probably be heading through your area to go to the UP snowboarding. It probably won't be until at least next summer when I pick one up.
bromikl
04-01-2013, 08:15 AM
Wow, didn't realize it would cost that much. We have a place out by us that makes custom toneau covers and jeep soft tops that might be a better option.
I'm in the Lake Geneva area. I should be back in winter, and will probably be heading through your area to go to the UP snowboarding. It probably won't be until at least next summer when I pick one up.
Philly15 is in Appleton, nevinsb will be in Lake Geneva. I'm in Milwaukee. I'll bet someone else here is in Chicago. Do we need a Midwest 818 club?
Silvertop
04-01-2013, 08:22 AM
Philly15 is in Appleton, nevinsb will be in Lake Geneva. I'm in Milwaukee. I'll bet someone else here is in Chicago. Do we need a Midwest 818 club?
Could be........... And Forest Lake, Minnesota is only about 6 hours up the road. I know that because I am in Racine County WI with some frequency (at least once a year). My family's deep roots are there.
Darkpiggy's dad
04-01-2013, 02:11 PM
I'm in Oak Park, just across the road from Chicago. I'm expecting delivery on or around Oct. 5/13. I need to build a three car garage this summer. I hope to meet some of you in the future. As far as tops go, I think three grand is pretty realistic for a limited production top if it is really first rate. I've driven many different makes of convertible sports cars and none of the tops, in my experience, compare for ease and speed of use to the Miata. I don't know how the miata top holds up over time. Alfa Romeo tops were very quick and easy as well but prone to a little leakage.
bnr32jason
04-02-2013, 04:06 AM
If it's over $2000 for a basic soft top for this car, I won't be buying a top at all. I'll just pack some rain gear and seat covers for emergency situations.
wallace18
04-02-2013, 05:32 AM
There is a video of installing the soft top on a MK4 on the FFR website. It should give an idea what the 818 top will be like. IMO
BrandonDrums
04-02-2013, 01:36 PM
There is a video of installing the soft top on a MK4 on the FFR website. It should give an idea what the 818 top will be like. IMO
Let's hope not. The newer soft top for the MK4 isn't nearly as bad as the previous versions but it's still pretty darn elaborate. My bud who built an Mk3 roadster has spent the last 2 years scratch-building his own fiberglass hardtop because the available options for soft and hard tops are so inconvenient. He bought the $2000 MK3 soft top which was a leaky nightmare to use.
I really hope FFR is at least aiding in the development of the top options so they at least fit better than the ones for the '65 roadsters. Just a little factory support would go a long way in the form of having factory built mounting brackets on the frame and panels that are designed to allow a nice seal with an aftermarket top even if FFR isn't building the top options themselves.
Silvertop
04-02-2013, 03:01 PM
I really hope FFR is at least aiding in the development of the top options so they at least fit better than the ones for the '65 roadsters. Just a little factory support would go a long way in the form of having factory built mounting brackets on the frame and panels that are designed to allow a nice seal with an aftermarket top even if FFR isn't building the top options themselves.
It seems to me that the development of the 818 soft top HAS been contracted out to a vendor -- IIRC, it is the vendor who developed the soft top for the '33 Hot Rod -- though I'm not 100% sure of that...
wallace18
04-02-2013, 05:03 PM
It seems to me that the development of the 818 soft top HAS been contracted out to a vendor -- IIRC, it is the vendor who developed the soft top for the '33 Hot Rod -- though I'm not 100% sure of that...
I remember hearing the same from Dave in a post a while back.
if they (ffr) are browsing the forums, i would like it to be known that not having a roof would be a deal breaker for me. and i mean something more like a coupe and like the gtm: fully enclosed with useable windows. i respect that it is a kit car, but I would be seeing the 818 as a daily driver fun car. i would happily pay extra for a coupe version, or even one with a targa top.
thats just my opinion, though.
Xusia
04-06-2013, 01:18 AM
Hi Kemo, and welcome!
That feedback has most definitely been given. At this point I think it's safe to say Dave knows how important a top is (he has stated many times that a top of some kind will be available at launch), and that there are many folks for which a lack of roll up windows (and various other options) is a deal breaker. However, it isn't smart business to postpone sale of an otherwise completed car pending features or options not everyone needs or wants. So their plan is to start selling the car as soon as it is ready to recoup some of the development costs, while working on adding more features & options. So be patient (hard, I know!), and you will likely have your cake and eat it too! :)
One thing to keep in mind is that Dave has indicated roll up windows will be an option at some point (meaning, NOT at launch). He didn't state specifically if the roadster would get roll up windows or if that would be a [future] coupe only option.
FFR-ADV
04-06-2013, 08:09 AM
+1 Xusia and welcome Kemo!
Dave has clearly stated that a soft top would come first. See the DTS Rod Tops made for the Roadster:
http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/premium-mk4-convertible-soft-top/
Jim indicated that a removable hard top would most likely be constructed similar to the 33 Hot Rod with a windshield and rear window permanently mounted.
http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/premium-mk4-convertible-soft-top/
I also heard that an optional flat rear deck (rather than humps) down the road as well.
IMHO all of these will precede a coupe design. Factory Five has invested a lot of money in this car and new enabling manufacturing tools as well, so it makes sense for them to offer the VERY nice open roadster to those who want it now and start cash flow which can support and justify these later efforts. It will require patience on our part, but we will be rewarded for that down the road. This design benefits from all of the lessons learned from the Roadster, Daytona Coupe, GTM, 33 Hot Rod and others which are not offered now. Factory Five wants this car to be very build-able, as neither we nor they benefit from having many lingering half finished projects.
Our patience will be rewarded!
Cheers!
bigAl
04-06-2013, 09:37 AM
Wow, didn't realize it would cost that much. We have a place out by us that makes custom toneau covers and jeep soft tops that might be a better option.
I'm in the Lake Geneva area. I should be back in winter, and will probably be heading through your area to go to the UP snowboarding. It probably won't be until at least next summer when I pick one up.
A TONEAU cover makes some sense for a low cost option. No fun to drive with one (although it is possible) but, if you get caught by an unpredictable shower it keeps the interior relatively dry. Also if you park the car for lunch or whatever, at least your stuff is out of sight.
i have absolutely no problem waiting for a coupe option. I see the 818 having a lot of potential and plenty of aftermarket support down the road, so again, I can happily wait for one. looking forward to seeing the final product of what they are currently working on! :D
I almost forgot to ask, will there be an option for a front license plate mount? Sadly, they are required where I live.
bnr32jason
04-06-2013, 10:29 AM
A TONEAU cover makes some sense for a low cost option. No fun to drive with one (although it is possible) but, if you get caught by an unpredictable shower it keeps the interior relatively dry. Also if you park the car for lunch or whatever, at least your stuff is out of sight.
This is one of my biggest concerns, safety. With no windows and no top, I'm worried that car will get stolen. It almost has me worrying enough to cancel my pre-order. Don't get me wrong, I want the car specifically because it's designed as a roadster, but with no option for a top, windows, or at least a custom fit cover right from the start, I think it's valid concern.
It's not like I'll leave valuables in it, and I'll have a quick release steering wheel with a lock that I'll take with me almost every time I get out, but still, a little concerned. Hopefully by the time April 2014 comes around and it's time to take delivery of mine they will have some kind of cover to at least protect it.
Anyone else going to be parking theirs outside? I've got a carport, but no garage unfortunately. So I'm concerned with small rodents and insects (I hate spiders) getting inside of the car while it sits. Also the obvious concern of getting my seats ruined as well. Maybe I need to buy one of those cheap plastic sheds and park it inside.
Anyone know somewhere that makes weather proof car covers that are custom fit to the car? I guess I could store in the frunk (front trunk) and then cover it every time I'll be leaving it for more than a few minutes.
Jason,
To add input to your question, if and when I purchase, I plan on treating it just like any other vehicle I've driven: it gets parked outside and driven in any weather condition (well, minus snow). Theft is also a concern, something I haven't really considered. But if the thief wants in, they'll do what they can to make sure that they get in and take it. Although, the top still makes it more difficult (not the snap covers, those are easy to get into regardless).
FFR-ADV
04-06-2013, 12:25 PM
Hi bnr32jason,
In the Boston area and probably other large metropolitan areas the thieves to worry about use tow trucks and ramp trucks. Windows and tops keep out casual thieves (kids stealing GPS and radios or joy rides). I do not plan to take my 818 to any malls. I wouldn't leave electronics in plain view in any car. Who wants a window knocked out for a GPS? Maybe one should think about security for the 818 more like you would for a nice motorcycle (many of which exceed the cost of a built 818). The 818 will be so rare initially that it if it is stolen it would be chopped for parts or it is a kid on a joy ride. A hidden switch on the fuel pump will likely deter a joyriding kid, but not the professorial thief who is towing it anyway.
One FFR roadster owner I know puts a small tarp over the cockpit held by bungee cords to the exhaust pipes even on sunny days when he drives it to work. This also keeps little hands out, sun from bleaching interior as well as keeping bird crap off of the seats.
I have no personal experience with this vendor but many in the Boston area use LoJack (not inexpensive $695 I think) to aid the police in making a quick recovery from professorial thieves. There are likely other similar products.
http://www.lojack.com/Cars-Trucks-And-Classics
Most folks I know with special cars tend to shun regular hotels, and stay at bed and breakfasts. I am sure there are many other security methods Factory Five customers have found over the years.
Hope this helps.
Cheers!
Xusia
04-06-2013, 01:07 PM
This is one of my biggest concerns, safety. With no windows and no top, I'm worried that car will get stolen. It almost has me worrying enough to cancel my pre-order. Don't get me wrong, I want the car specifically because it's designed as a roadster, but with no option for a top, windows, or at least a custom fit cover right from the start, I think it's valid concern.
It's not like I'll leave valuables in it, and I'll have a quick release steering wheel with a lock that I'll take with me almost every time I get out, but still, a little concerned. Hopefully by the time April 2014 comes around and it's time to take delivery of mine they will have some kind of cover to at least protect it.
Anyone else going to be parking theirs outside? I've got a carport, but no garage unfortunately. So I'm concerned with small rodents and insects (I hate spiders) getting inside of the car while it sits. Also the obvious concern of getting my seats ruined as well. Maybe I need to buy one of those cheap plastic sheds and park it inside.
Anyone know somewhere that makes weather proof car covers that are custom fit to the car? I guess I could store in the frunk (front trunk) and then cover it every time I'll be leaving it for more than a few minutes.
PROTECTION FROM WEATHER, BUGS, ETC.
I would definitely go for the car cover (AT the very LEAST) given your situation. If one of those portable/temporary garages is an option for you, that would certainly be a step up from a cover while at your house. If it's feasible, you might also consider enclosing the car port. I know people that have done that, but I also realize you can't do that it in all cases.
PROTECTION FROM THEFT
Finally! An area in which I have some expertise and can contribute! :) There are many, many ways to keep the thieves as bay. I won't philosophize too much, but I do want to emphasize NOTHING is 100% fool proof. If a thief wants something bad enough they will get it. Your goal is to convince them it's more trouble than it's worth.
I'd start with a basic security system. Contrary to popular belief, fancy features and zillion sensors don't matter near as much as the quality of the installation. If you don't plan on doing it yourself, spend the time to find a good installer - someone with years of experience working on a variety of cars including some of the more expensive ones - not some kid the local stereo store hired a couple years back. Look for someone with stereo and/or alarm installation certifications (yes, they do have those). You are looking for someone who is clever, and has a mindset to outsmart the thieves. They should talk about how to hide the components (oh, and do NOT post any stickers or other indications that contain any information about the alarm such as brand, model, etc. - this only helps the thieves!). One sure way to spot a crappy installer is to let them know you are concerned about a quality installation that will keep thieves out; then ask them where they would mount the siren. If they mention the wheel fender, chances are good they are not a good installer.
As far as actual alarm features or sensors, something with "code-hopping" is a must, as is some kind of starter or engine kill. For a convertible like the 818, I think a glass breakage sensor is a waste, and shock sensors tend to be the culprits for those annoying false alarms. I'm a big fan of electrical current sensors and 2-stage radar sensors (so you get the pre-warning prior to full alarm). When installed properly, potential thieves get an audible alert that an alarm is installed and armed if they get too close. If they open a door, hood, etc, or try and start the car, it goes into full alarm.
Some cool tricks you can do:
Wire red lights that always blink. That way, if you forget to arm the alarm, it won't be obvious. Personally, I like to put these on the top of the door sill, rather than the dash. That makes them all the more obvious.
Wire the starter kill to something else that would prevent the car from running. This allows the starter to function, tricking a potential thief into thinking there isn't a start kill. This wastes their time and gives you more time to potentially catch them.
Put in some fake hood pins. Make it obvious without looking obvious and have the wiring hanging in such a way they could reach it and cut it. The idea is for them to think they are disabling a hood pin so they can access the engine bay and disable the alarm. In reality, cutting said wire triggers the alarm. <-- This is one of my favorite tricks!
There's a lot of other stuff you can do as well that doesn't involve an alarm: Secret switches or keys that disable or turn off needed things, a special button to press when starting, etc.
Anyway, there are literally TONS of things you can do to help prevent your car from being stolen. I'm happy to help anyone if they have any questions. Perhaps a separate security thread?
A little advice to those concerned with kits and the possibility of them getting stolen: there are GPS chips that you can literally hide somewhere on the chassis (like a place they wouldn't suspect of course). With the technology getting far better in regards to "low power" applications, battery life in said chips can and should last quite a long time. Of course, you could always buy ones purpose built for vehicles, too. The convenience of it all, is that you can at least figure out where it is or its last location if it ever gets stolen.
Food for thought! :cool:
bromikl
04-07-2013, 07:02 AM
http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/product/brickhouse+hct+pro+plus.do?sortby=bestSellers&from=fn
This option may require a subscription. Cost???
Some people with electronics experience could build a custom tracking device: A GPS receiver constantly logs GPS location to an on-board buffer. Then a separate circuit logs into an open WiFi signal and transmits location/time data to your email address. Power the hidden unit from the car's battery and install a backup battery in the unit. Always know where your car is (and you are the only one.) Even better: use an old cell phone and custom programming. You don't need a cell plan if you're using only WiFi.
Xusia
04-07-2013, 12:54 PM
^There are a lot of ways to accomplish like this. Besides an old smartphone, you could use a tablet, or even a mi-fi type device (just activate the service on it when you need, rather than keep service all the time). I plan to use an android tablet as my stereo, so I'll likely add some booby-traps and location finding stuff. There's a great app called tasker than can all kinds of things - including sending emails with location data.
Good ideas gents! :)
Silvertop
04-08-2013, 03:53 PM
I called DTS Hot Rod Tops today, hoping to get a feel for the top design targeted for the 818. I really couldn't get too much information. But their lead guy did confirm that neither the Roadster top or the '33 top is designed to fold down. It's either on or off, and must be assembled from its hiding place in the trunk each time it is used. They DO have a "Boot Option" which allows the assembly to remain partially in place, but still requires removal of the canvas and disconnection of one side of the top structure on one side of the body (to allow for clearance over the roll bar). Apparently, it shortens and simplifies the up-down process a little bit, but mostly it allows for the top to be stored on the rear deck behind the seats, freeing up limited trunk space for other things.
He could not speak to how this would translate to the 818, however. They are waiting for access to an actual chassis/body to come to them so that they can design the top. He did say that due to the 818's significantly different shape, its top is likely to be an entirely different animal. Also, there does seem to be some pressure to design a less costly alternative than the ones that are currently available for the Roadster and the '33. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see............
Niburu
04-09-2013, 10:27 AM
I wonder if a Miata top could be adapted, those are at least readily available.
AZPete
04-09-2013, 10:28 AM
"Also, there does seem to be some pressure to design a less costly alternative than the ones that are currently available for the Roadster and the '33."
Based on the roadster, the less costly may be about $1,500. Then, to solve leaks and flapping, a better top will be offered at about $3,000. Total = $4,500.
Please FFR, skip the less costly version.
Pete
ScottKoschwitz
04-09-2013, 10:46 AM
I think the best way to go is to just make the 818 a targa. That would make the soft top smaller, less complex, and, probably cheaper, than a full-framed convertible top. Those who want to make an 818 coupe could do so by bolting in a smaller, lighter, and cheaper hard top. Same body design for both.
BipDBo
04-09-2013, 10:58 AM
I think the best way to go is to just make the 818 a targa. That would make the soft top smaller, less complex, and, probably cheaper, than a full-framed convertible top. Those who want to make an 818 coupe could do so by bolting in a smaller, lighter, and cheaper hard top. Same body design for both.
I very much agree, but would like to ammend. I've been saying for a while that a design like that on the Venom GT Spyder would be perfect for the 818. It's a targa, but with structural tubing connecting the windshield to the b-pillars, forming a complete protective cage. You could use the same frame design for both the roadster and coupe models. It's the best of both worlds. You get the safety of a coupe and the openness of a roadster. The top would be very simple, just stretched out cloth with no extra structure that could be rolled up to very compact size and slipped behind a seat.
There could be a permanent vertical rear window.
As for the side windows, I don't really have a problem with monofilm and zippers or velcro. Roll up glass would be nice, but would add a lot of constructability issues, expense and weight.
16557
Xusia
04-09-2013, 11:08 AM
It's not a bad idea, I just think it's not for everyone (like me). The cage makes ingress and egress more difficult - especially for taller folks (again, like me) - and a cloth top provides little security (although it is VERY convenient). Same thing with velcro/zip-in windows. Still, I hope they offer that for you; as an option! :)
Zodiac
04-09-2013, 11:53 AM
preferebly a hard top for me. removable or not. bolt it on/off and windows would be great. i know none of this is in design or anything yet but i think if someone was out there was going to most likely produce one i would hold off on the soft top till i got to see what the hard version would look like. as of now im probably gonna get the soft top unless i decide to have if track only for awhile before i spend all the cash for the top
Silvertop
04-09-2013, 02:19 PM
"Also, there does seem to be some pressure to design a less costly alternative than the ones that are currently available for the Roadster and the '33."
Based on the roadster, the less costly may be about $1,500. Then, to solve leaks and flapping, a better top will be offered at about $3,000. Total = $4,500.
Please FFR, skip the less costly version.
Pete
I think FFR's idea is for the vendor to squeeze down the costs a bit for the 818 (to maintain the cost-effective entry-level quality of the 818) while still producing a quality top -- one that doesn't leak or flap in the wind. And if they can find a way to achieve both goals, great. But I'm with you. I'd rather pay the premium price for a top I can be proud of than pay a lesser amount for something that is a piece of you-know-what. And I certainly don't want to buy a cheap top initially only to shell my money out a second time for one that works.
Silvertop
04-09-2013, 02:56 PM
I think the best way to go is to just make the 818 a targa. That would make the soft top smaller, less complex, and, probably cheaper, than a full-framed convertible top. Those who want to make an 818 coupe could do so by bolting in a smaller, lighter, and cheaper hard top. Same body design for both.
This was the configuration that I had hoped for initially, and what I would still love to see. And given FFR's intention that the 818 will ultimately be a swatch-watch car, with multiple bodies (or mutiple variations of the same body), that will likely come to pass at some point down the road. But it seems unlikely that the v.1 818 Streeter is going to morph into something significantly different than it is between now and June, even though the 818S is apparently still in development. This may be why the folks at Hot Rod Tops are still waiting for an 818 body on which to work their magic. Seriously though, I think we are going to get pretty much what was unveiled at SEMA.
One way or another, I'm committed. My 818S is scheduled for production in October, and I'll be taking what comes. Can't wait.
bnr32jason
04-09-2013, 06:28 PM
How would a convertible top even work without roll up windows to make the "seal?"
Some kind of soft zip-up side windows that are similar to the soft rear window we see in many soft tops?
The security stuff is quite interesting and I appreciate the responses. There are plenty of options for that, but mostly what I'm worried about, and haven't been able to figure out a solution yet, is keeping insects and stuff out of the car when it's parked. Even in a nice sealed garage you still get spiders (I'm a genuinely diagnosed arachnophobic, getting itchy just typing about them) so what hope do I have to keep spiders out of the interior of my 818? I guess I would ask how the FFR Cobra guys handle it? Seems like even with a form fitting custom cover it would still be susceptible to letting insects in.
Silvertop
04-09-2013, 08:23 PM
How would a convertible top even work without roll up windows to make the "seal?"
Some kind of soft zip-up side windows that are similar to the soft rear window we see in many soft tops?
That's a question we already have an answer to. Dave Smith told us some time back that the soft top would come with zip-in side curtains, just like the soft top for the Roadster.
Xusia
04-09-2013, 09:45 PM
I'm genuinely sorry to say this, but i's a convertible - you just aren't going to get a good window seal. Maybe a high end convertible like a Mercedes or something would have a good seal, but the normal priced convertibles I've had didn't have what I would term a seal (with the windows). Rather they had overlaps, traps, channels, etc., to keep out weather - nothing was designed or intended to keep out something as small as a insect that's capable of it's own locomotion (that is, not gravity powered).
I understand you don't like spiders (me either, BTW), and I'm not trying to be mean. My intent to give you an understanding of what you are in for. That way you can decide it it's worth dealing with.
bnr32jason
04-10-2013, 01:01 AM
I'm genuinely sorry to say this, but i's a convertible - you just aren't going to get a good window seal. Maybe a high end convertible like a Mercedes or something would have a good seal, but the normal priced convertibles I've had didn't have what I would term a seal (with the windows). Rather they had overlaps, traps, channels, etc., to keep out weather - nothing was designed or intended to keep out something as small as a insect that's capable of it's own locomotion (that is, not gravity powered).
I understand you don't like spiders (me either, BTW), and I'm not trying to be mean. My intent to give you an understanding of what you are in for. That way you can decide it it's worth dealing with.
I understand. I'm not expecting to be able to keep everything out, just trying to get an idea of what I'm going to be in for. I've never owned a roadster before, closest I've had is a targa top and never had trouble keeping things out. Mostly I'm looking for a reason to either buy or not buy the soft top. The way things are looking right now, I'm not even going to bother with a top at all. The car won't be my daily driver, so I'm not too concerned with it. So I'll get a nice cover made for it and some decent water proof seat covers for those unexpected weather encounters.
Xusia
04-10-2013, 08:44 AM
A tonneau cover might be best for you...
bnr32jason
04-10-2013, 11:03 AM
A tonneau cover might be best for you...
Now I know what a tonneau cover is, but how would one be used on the roadster? I know truck tonneau covers, but are you talking about something that would cover the majority of the interior if I get caught in the rain? Or a full interior cover for when it's parked? Sorry I'm just having trouble picturing it.
narkosys
04-10-2013, 01:11 PM
you have the right idea. Here is a picture of a partial tonneau cover. click here. (http://www.classicsportscars.eu/big-healeys/PICTURES/austin-healey-3000-mk2-door.JPG) there are also full interior ones like you also mentioned.
hth
P
Silvertop
04-10-2013, 02:48 PM
Now I know what a tonneau cover is, but how would one be used on the roadster? I know truck tonneau covers, but are you talking about something that would cover the majority of the interior if I get caught in the rain? Or a full interior cover for when it's parked? Sorry I'm just having trouble picturing it.
Most Tonneau covers do in fact provide full protection for the entire interior, and many also have a zipped section running down the center longitudinally which can be folded back to allow the car to be driven while still covering the rest of the interior.
Actually, I might want to invest in one of those even though I AM planning to buy a top for my 818. The Tonneau will be very useful on a daily basis, whereas the top will be less so.
Here's hoping somebody markets one for the 818. A custom unit could be spendy.........
FFR-ADV
04-10-2013, 05:45 PM
Since finding out here that the 818 uses a MR2 Spyder windshield in a custom FFR frame, it made me wonder what the 818 might look like with a MR2 Spyder hardtop if the rear deck humps were removed. So, here is a quick edit of what it might look like:
16583
Cheers!
Since finding out here that the 818 uses a MR2 Spyder windshield in a custom FFR frame, it made me wonder what the 818 might look like with a MR2 Spyder hardtop if the rear deck humps were removed. So, here is a quick edit of what it might look like:
16583
Cheers!
Give it roll-up windows and sold!
FFR-ADV
04-10-2013, 08:24 PM
Hi Kemo,
If the length of the door and rake of the windshield match the 818 then maybe MR2 Spyder side windows, mechanisms and seals could button it all up. If it works this is an interesting quick solution for many people, though I prefer many of the Targa top variants designed by Vman7, particularly a version with a gullwing T-Top.
Cheers!
Samiam1017
04-10-2013, 08:51 PM
Hi Kemo,
If the length of the door and rake of the windshield match the 818 then maybe MR2 Spyder side windows, mechanisms and seals could button it all up. If it works this is an interesting quick solution for many people, though I prefer many of the Targa top variants designed by Vman7, particularly a version with a gullwing T-Top.
Cheers!
wow I said that it post 20. Somebody here finally listen to something I had to say! Lol.
blueafro
04-10-2013, 10:37 PM
Unless FFR were planning from the start to use the MR2 soft and hard tops (not a bad idea, of course), then I doubt the parts will fit, though in the absence of side windows to complicate the problem, a bespoke windshield header could probably be made to adapt them.
Speaking of MR2 Spyder tops, have those who want a good top considered that the 818 kg target weight is only 20% lighter than that of the Spyder, a crash tested car with good soft and hard tops, a full interior, and plenty of heavy OEM components which can be removed or replaced with lighter gear? It seems likely a turbo 2ZZ swap could be completed for comparable cost to an 818.
For this reason, the track optimized 818 interests me more than the street car, though that could change if the 818 beats its weight targets dramatically.
bnr32jason
04-10-2013, 11:54 PM
While I do think some of the MR Spyders look ok, such as the heavily modified ones with JGTC wide body kits, in general it's a terribly ugly car in my opinion. On the other hand I think the 818 looks amazing. I guess I'm shallow or whatever you want to call it, but if the 818 didn't look good, I wouldn't even be considering it. I'm sure someone could heavily modify a Pontiac Aztek to be really fast and handle well, but I wouldn't buy it.
Xusia
04-11-2013, 12:24 AM
When I mentioned the tonneau cover for you I was thinking in terms of keeping stuff out when parked. You know, bugs, weather, prying eyes, etc. My thinking was it was less surface area and easier to fit, so it might do a better job given your concerns. They are also comparatively very cheap.
I had tonneau covers for both my MGBs and loved the convenience and piece of mind. You can't see ANYTHING inside (security), and you are ready to roll (top down) after undoing a snap & zipper, and rolling it back! By comparison, a soft top let's bad guys see inside, and takes much more time to fold down.
And, as stated by Silvertop if the zipper is present, it does have the added benefit of covering a significant portion of the interior when driving as well. Although, keep in mind, at speeds above 10-15 MPH little to no rain would get inside anyway. I see the benefit of the zipper as mostly a time saver (ready to roll more quickly vs. undoing the whole cover), and partially as added comfort (on cold days it helps keep the heat in).
Silvertop
04-11-2013, 12:39 AM
................I'm sure someone could heavily modify a Pontiac Aztek to be really fast and handle well, but I wouldn't buy it.
Buy it??? Dang, I wouldn't even want to be SEEN in it. Gotta be one of the ugliest vehicles ever designed. Ugly to the point of amazing!
FFR-ADV
04-11-2013, 05:06 AM
Hi Samiam1017
Missed your post....It is an interesting idea. I am willing to wait to see what FFR comes up with and then do upgrades to my 818 build.
Time will tell, but the FFR 818 hardtop will likely be built similar to the 33 Roadster top with integral windshield frame.
Cheers!
Samiam1017
04-11-2013, 06:40 AM
It may be a good starting point to look at for side windows an mechanism. I personally have never seen a mr2 spyder in my area or in person so I have no idea if the doors are similar sized or the windshield angles close..but if FF doesn't offer an option for roll up window that's probably where I will start looking.