Would you buy a new parts package for the 818 if it were available?

[veloce2]

I don't know about you, but one of the turn off's for me about the 818 is that you have to use used parts. There is something to be said about using new parts to build the car f your dreams. Cleaning and prepping parts gets old, and in many cases they are never up to the standard of new.So the question I pose is would you buy a new parts kit if it were available?

[narkosys]

FFr usually has a complete list of parts used in the kit so if you like to get all those parts new you can, just remember that it will cost a lot more compared to going the donor route.

Case in point, the parts needed for a GTM. You can go the donor route for 5K-ish or there are vendors that sell complete 'donor' kits where all the parts are new. BUT it will cost at least twice as much, but then again when it comes to building the GTM I will go the new parts route (http://www.smcperformance.com/GTM/completekit.htm) because of my preference for that caliber of vehicle.

In the end it all depends on budget and what you want.

P

[philly15]

i wouldnt really the whole point of this kit was to be able to build a nice car on a budget i guess part of the cost of doing that is using used parts once you go new might as well double the final price of everything thats just my opinion though i guess plus hey for those of us who have to wait a while now have something to do when it comes to prepping and cleaning parts!!! lol on the other hand it allows me to find more ways to spend money and end up increasing my budget anyway

[Silvertop]

There is every possibility that an all new parts option will come to pass. Several of FFR's other products offer the "complete kit" option, which bypasses the donor concept and gives the buyer everything he needs to build his car (and all new, not used) except the engine and transmission. The buyer can then pick his own engine/transmission from whatever source (presumably new) he chooses.

[Xusia]

I would really like new parts, and am a bit CDO (it's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order; like they should be!), so I would definitely prefer the "complete" kit option. I realize it will cost more than going the donor route, but I'd rather have new parts, and I'd rather not deal with all the hassles that come with going the donor route.

Still, if the complete kit option is not offered, or if it's too much for my budget, I might go with AJW. Or if a really good deal on a donor comes along, I might go that route as well.

[Silvertop]

...............Still, if the complete kit option is not offered, or if it's too much for my budget, I might go with AJW. Or if a really good deal on a donor comes along, I might go that route as well.

The AJW route is a nice compromise between the normal donor route and the complete kit option -- especially since the complete kit option is not available at this time. I can't tell you how happy I am to have my donor sitting in my garage in crates rather than still attached to a wrecked car. Worth the extra money. It also means that the project will be completed. I HATE the idea of stripping a hulk myself!

[Slatt]

am a bit CDO (it's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order; like they should be!)

Whee! That was funny. Wrong, of course, but that's why they include the "D" part. :)

[longislandwrx]

From what FFR has currently posted, I have a complete suspension parts list using Subaru part numbers of what you'd need to build the 818. Its VERY pricy. knuckles are expensive, hubs are expensive. Complete brake assemblies are pricey. If you substitute with non Subaru parts /aftermarket china made bits the price does start to go down though. All the little stuff adds up.

Things like new complete oem steering columns and such are so damn expensive that it doesn't make sense to get them new.

[dbjr63]

i plan to build an 818 with all new parts.

[RM1SepEx]

Short answer NO

Rebuilding stuff is 1/2 the fun

[68GT500MAN]

Taking apart the doner and cleaning/refurbishing the parts was a great part of the roadster experience. Now that I am building the 33 with all new parts I miss the adventure. To each his own.
Doug

[Samiam1017]

If you have the time,space and knowledge to build the car then dissembling the donor is no big deal. Two good days and its stripped.

[Niburu]

Short answer NO

Rebuilding stuff is 1/2 the fun

this

half of the attraction of this kit is how low the build cost is

[PhyrraM]

I don't see even the OCD part of used parts.

A control arm, once cleaned, inspected, and rebushed is no different new or used.
A caliper, once cleaned, inspected, and rebuilt is no different new than used.
A hub/knuckle, once cleaned, inspected, and rebearinged is no different than a new one.
I could go on....

My point is that a properly reconditioned part, in most cases, is the 100% equal to a new part. The only difference is in the labor involved and in someones mind - both subjective items to a "proper" build. (of course a "proper" build is completely subjective too. :cool:)

[120mm]

I'd think especially with the 818 concept, where cost is a high priority design option, that new parts don't make a lot of sense. If cost were not a priority, I wouldn't even be thinking of an 818.

[narkosys]

I like the AJW option (which is how I plan to go) because it makes importing the car into Canada much easier for both FFr and me.

P

[Xusia]

Short answer NO

Rebuilding stuff is 1/2 the fun

Perhaps for you, but not everyone. For me, I anticipate 25% of the fun will be the build, and 10% will be talking about it, and 65% will be actually driving it. Of course, that could change. I hear people really love the build, so maybe I'll like it more than I think! ;)

[longislandwrx]

I would recommend a mostly new build for you. changing out bushings, seals and bearings is easy for like new operation. But other things just aren't worth it new.

[Xusia]

Hehe, well let me enlighten you! LOL


I don't see even the OCD part of used parts.

A control arm, once cleaned, inspected, and rebushed is no different new or used.
A caliper, once cleaned, inspected, and rebuilt is no different new than used.
A hub/knuckle, once cleaned, inspected, and rebearinged is no different than a new one.
I could go on....

So who is qualified to inspect those parts? Not me. What if it's bent, and I don't know it? What if it's weakened and could break? I don't have the knowledge or expertise to rebush/rebuild them, so I'd have to find someone. Since I've never owned a Subaru, I don't already have a mechanic with specialized knowledge. I'm sure my regular mechanic could do a lot of this, but I'd prefer to have a Subaru expert. How do I find them? How do I know if they are actually good, or just a good talker?

*I* could go on (and on)...


My point is that a properly reconditioned part, in most cases, is the 100% equal to a new part. The only difference is in the labor involved and in someones mind - both subjective items to a "proper" build. (of course a "proper" build is completely subjective too. :cool:)

For non-consumable parts, I agree with you. It comes down to piece of mind. I realize I lack the appropriate knowledge to give myself that piece of mind. Therefore, new parts are an attractive option. Similarly, going the AJW route is an attractive option, and believe me, it's still on the table for me. The only things at this point that would send me in a different direction is if a complete kit option is offered and reasonably priced (in which case I still might buy an engine/transmission from AJW), or if I find a stellar deal on a donor (which would give me more money to deal with issues related to said donor).

[PhyrraM]

I guess I can see where your coming from.

My particular take is that if your uncomfortable with your skills at inspecting and analyzing parts at the beginning of the project - will you be comfortable with your skills to build (and eventually place on a public road) a completed car and deal with the numerous 'issues' that will arise before the end of the project?

Don't read that as "don't do it" or "just go buy a car". I just personally see both sides as the same skill set.

[Samiam1017]

If something was damaged in an accident then most likely its obvious. Just clean up the parts and give them I good looking over. If your not comfortable with its looks. Ask a mechanic to look it over. I don't think a subaru specialists is needed unless your talking motor related stuff. AJW option is a great safe option. Even buying from them you don't know the real story behind what the original owner did. So in a way it's there warranty that's most attractive. I've boughten three cars. Two motors were shot. It's a risk you take when buying salvage vehicles.

[longislandwrx]

So who is qualified to inspect those parts?

The community at large. Post up your pictures and concerns and we will address them!

[Oppenheimer]

I understand the desire for new parts. This is, afterall, a dream car. Who wants grimmy used parts on their dream?

However one thing I learned the hard way long ago is that most of the time used OEM > new aftermarket. I'm not talking about aftermarket performance items, just regular parts store replacement parts. The car makers put a lot of R&D into their components. Aftermarket just copies those designs and tries to make them cheaper. I still buy new parts from the local parts place, because new aftermarket > broken OEM.

So IMHO, you either pay through the nose for OEM Subaru, or go donor (on your own or via AJW, etc). It will get real expensive real quick to buy all these parts new on your own from Subaru. I would not build a dream car based on new parts as cheaply as possible in China.

[bbatts]

New parts would be nice, but I am kinda trying to stay on a reasonable budget. This 818 will most likely will only see a few thousand miles per year so used parts in excellent condition should suit me very well.

BB

[wleehendrick]

I'm very happy with the condition of nearly all the parts off my donor, but it was a low mile CA car. The premium for new parts goes against the philosophy of the 818, IMHO. FFR would really need to work the supply chain to get a full kit at a reasonable price.

Just don't buy your donor from Richard Hammond!

16391

[RM1SepEx]

The community at large. Post up your pictures and concerns and we will address them!

+1!!!
Subaru parts are no different than any other mfg, blast, clean, refurbish, damage shows up. Questions on an important part? use an expert as an example even though I've done complicated assy work before the Subaru trans req some specialty tools that I didnt have. I had a local Subaru expert go through my transaxle and install my Quaife LSD. He determined that the carrier bearings didn't quite feel right so I replaced them. They would have worked and with my usage might never have caused a problem. Most of us have rebuilt or replaced all wear items or consumables. I only replaced one of the 4 wheel bearings as the other felt just fine (70K miles) depends on what you are comfortable with.

I'm not building a "new" car but it will be damn close to it! A low mileage donor allowed me to balance what I felt needed to be refurbished. Each of us would have a different opinion. I bounced ideas off several of the forum members (working on the donor thread) for some supporting feedback esp from those with more Subaru knowledge.

This forum has been AMAZING!!!! in that respect!

Now I do have to couch that fact with the statement that I'm and older (54) mechanical engineer with his own pig headed opinions on everything! :-)

[metalmaker12]

I am sorry but I am going to be a little harsh. Have any of the new parts people stoped crying yet, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:( stop it and take it easy, it is a kit car, and when you rebuild donor parts right, they are like new, or better, for less and you gain experience. It is if 1/2 the fun!!!!!!

If you don't trust yourself, fine go spend the extra cash, but what happens when you need to fix it, now you got no experience taking it apart etc. Trusting yourself is half the experience.

[wallace18]

In my opinion if you don't have the skills to rebuild donor parts you will be lost trying to build the kit. It takes skills to build a kit car. I am not trying to rain on anyones parade JMO. Since I am building a 33 kit now I have a better understanding what it takes. Make sure you have the skills or access to someone who does before trying to build a kit. I wish all of you the best in what you end up doing.

[metalmaker12]

+1 wall, this is very true

[Xusia]

OK, I was trying to provide some humorous insight into the mind of people like me. But I think this might have gotten a little bit out of hand. :)

If you are the kind of person that likes to rebuild stuff, that's great. Seriously. Just please understand that's not everyone. I've done work like this on other things (many motorcycles, namely), and I don't particularly care for it. Could I figure it out and would it be OK? Probably. This just isn't my preferred route. The only reason I would purposely opt to put myself through this is to save some serious bucks. Hence the reason I'm on the prowl for a donor I can snag for low $$.

I think there is a very big difference between being able to assemble something (something that includes instructions, BTW) vs. assessing the condition of and rebuilding worn, possibly broken, unfamiliar parts. Nearly all the posts about various procedures are full of things like "make sure you <fill in the blank of the special procedure>," or "don't do <fill in the blank of wrong thing to do>." The ways to make mistakes are countless, and I really don't want to be doing things multiple times because I messed it up. That costs money. And time (which is my most valuable commodity). But I am dead certain I can put together a car from parts I know are in good working order.

In terms of assessing damage to parts, I wasn't talking about obvious damage - I'm pretty sure I could spot that. I was referring to damage that was not obvious, as well as to normal wear that exceeds tolerance (meaning, the item should be replaced). Do I *REALLY* want to post a pic of everything I'm unsure of? Not really. Don't get me wrong; I certainly and sincerely appreciate the offer of help(!), I just don't think it's fair to burden the community with my neediness.

[mrvwcastner]

I'm personally doing a mix of new & used. My ideas are morphing constantly. I bought all the chassis components needed off well maintained 02 wrx, I want aluminum LCAs & new price is good so combo it is. I'm using that philosophy throughout including a quick rack etc.. I think my donor totals will be equal to the kit itself. My only non compromising opinion is build it once instead of 2nd guessing later & buying something used then upgrading it later with new or aftermarket doubling the labor & increasing cost (although cost increase minimal if you sell the used part after changing your mind). My thought process will not be the norm as it means spending more on parts than a pure donor, & cleaning used parts as well. I'm also planning on waiting until the last minute to order a JDM motor because the warranty is usually only 30 days.

[AZPete]

I picture AJW as somewhere between used & new because they check the donor parts, particularly the wearing parts, and know what's likely to need attention and they replace things based on the maintenance (milage) schedule. I built an FFR roadster with a "pallet" of the donor parts and I got just whatever came from the salvage yard took from the donor car "as is". They did not check anything or replace any wearing parts, but included layers of grease-dirt, mud and shipping damage. Now looking forward to crates from AJW.
Pete

[longislandwrx]

Hence the reason I'm on the prowl for a donor I can snag for low $$.


Veloce2 and Xusia, why not apply the opposite strategy, find a practically brand new donor. Voila, new parts. I've seen a few 06's at the dealership with 20k or less miles on them. Granted that's a $22k donor, but everything is brand spankin new and spotless. You should still be able to recoup a lot of your money back.

[FFR-ADV]

I plan to use many new parts: radiator, bushings, aluminum control arms, rear suspension links, upgrade to racing Koni shocks, Wilwood brake pedal with balance bar, faster STi rack( would like to buy one already de-powered, but maybe someone on the forum will offer such a product/service)

Top of my list if it is available: Pre-wired Electrical Harness (Allows me to spend time on other things)

FFR will likely source this in the future if they can get all of the necessary OEM/equivalent connectors. I wish them success in this!

Cheers!

[veloce2]

Veloce2 and Xusia, why not apply the opposite strategy, find a practically brand new donor. Voila, new parts. I've seen a few 06's at the dealership with 20k or less miles on them. Granted that's a $22k donor, but everything is brand spankin new and spotless. You should still be able to recoup a lot of your money back.

Good suggestion, It's just that what I am seeing so far is perts that were cleaned well and painted, but when you look in that engine compartment, you can tell the components are used. I am glad that half the fun is cleaning grease and grime for some, but I always found that a bore. Even with a newer donor it will have grime, it just depends how the owner treated it.

[veloce2]

It takes skills to build a kit.

That depends on the kit, if the kit is well designed it takes less skill. I think most Kit builders try to make the kits so it takes very little skill. For the most part these types of projects are pretty simple, we as owners make them more difficult because we want them a certain way, but in general they can be slammed together in less than a week if you have all the parts.

[THE ITALIAN]

Taking apart the doner and cleaning/refurbishing the parts was a great part of the roadster experience. Now that I am building the 33 with all new parts I miss the adventure. To each his own.
Doug

I agree.
NEW PARTS FOR A SUBARU ??
what are we talking here? 15 thousand? More
My roadster parts are cheaper than the subaru by a lot

[metalmaker12]

My motor has 27k on it, which is like new,I have new front Sti control arms, new Sti rear lateral links, new centric rotors, new act clutch, new hallman boost controller, etc etc .. Alot of new parts,,oh and a used donor which I rebuilt a small margin of parts. FFR might come out with a 100% store bought kit, but I will not be on that boat. I have a total of 10k in a motor less donor and parts, why would I want to spend even more for a affordable kit car, I would just go buy a Porsche or vette and call it a day. It is a blanking kit car.

[Xusia]

...why would I want to spend even more for a affordable kit car, I would just go buy a Porsche or vette and call it a day.

Obviously YOU wouldn't!! LOL To quote you, this is going to sound harsh: Why can you not understand everyone is different? You have your reasoning; and it's fine - for YOU! I'm not knocking your reasoning and decisions (or anyone else's). If I wanted either of one of those cars I'd go buy them. That said, I don't think your reasoning is sound, however, because even using a complete kit option, I'm fairly sure I could build a better performing 818 for less than either one of those.


It is a blanking kit car.

That doesn't mean it can't be made using new parts. I don't see how the 818 being a kit car is relevant to the topic unless you are suggesting that because it's a kit car it is inherently a lesser vehicle and therefore should be built and treated accordingly. Since you've stated you are using many new parts, I really can't see that being what you are trying to say...

[RM1SepEx]

time to take a breath!

We all make decisions based on whatever perspective we have... we should NOT be disparaging folks for making different decisions...

so back to asking questions, using the information provided and making decisions based on that input... even though it may not be the same decision

As I have described by my posts over the past year... I bought a low mileage donor to avoid a total drivetrain rebuild... I have the expectation that with a stock, one owner, 70k mile donor I should have reliability. I did do all periodic maint items, upgrading to meet my needs. My needs most likely don't meet those of others.

Almost everyone will be building a "different" project. That's the joy of a kit car!!!!

[metalmaker12]

Lol, we just don't see eye to eye, that's all. I just feel certain parts do not matter if they are new or used as long as they are functional, safe and dependable. To go spend so much more on all new parts is not practical in my option. Life is all about individual perspective, so to each there own.

I should have said affordable kit car like 15-25k in the normal range. All new parts will get it in the 30's unless your Matty Sti, which will drop like 80k on his 818.

I was stating if it is a total kit it is a total store bought item like a prodcution car except you build it, where when you get a donor, you rebuild it and build the kit and it has more builder kudos.

And yes where I see fit to by new parts I do, but it is always to improve the exsisting parts. Ex: wrx for sti parts

[bromikl]

Everyone has different skills and priorities. I don't have a garage big enough to strip down a car nor the tools required to clean/recondition the parts. My time is worth something, too. Not everyone works on cars for a living. Some of don't tinker with them even as a hobby. Some of us don't actually enjoy smelling of oil or getting grease out of our hair. (Blasphemy! LOL)

I found FFR while looking for a lightweight frame on which to build an electric vehicle or a hybrid. As I learned more about the 818, I decided I should build two of them - one gas powered and the other a hybrid. The facility I have access to won't allow a gas vehicle inside because of the possibility of oil spills and gasoline fires. A pallet donor with all the parts cleaned/refurbished and no engine would be perfect for my hybrid build. For the gas version, I'll have to get more creative. I may end up moving the rolling frame before installing the engine.

When you assume that everyone here is interested in the 818 for the same reasons you are, and has the same priorities you do, and the same skills and the same access to auto maintenance facilities, it will be very difficult for you to understand why they wouldn't follow the same plan you perceive to be the best.

[BS]

It seems the AJW route would satisfy your issues without the expense of buying new parts. They take the donor apart, clean the parts as they go, replace bad or bent parts, and ship it ready to install. The only difference between the AJW parts and new parts is they are used and a few may be rebuilt, which is basically the same as new, IMHO.
I understand wanting all new parts, as I've bought plenty of new parts for my Cobra build but that was due to my decision to build a scratch build instead of a complete or donor kit so I really didn't have much choice. With a well thought-out kit like the 818, the donor route seems the way to go not only for cost savings (a big factor), but because this kit is designed for it. If a little cleaning is a problem, are you sure you want to build a kit car?

Bob

[Xusia]

I just feel certain parts do not matter if they are new or used as long as they are functional, safe and dependable.

I agree 100%! The problem for me is knowing which parts those are. There is a time investment in doing the research, assessing, and reconditioning/rebuilding if necessary.


To go spend so much more on all new parts is not practical in my option.

With your skills (read: very high compared to my own), I'd bet it's not practical at all! It becomes more practical, however, when your skill level would require a more substantial time investment and when time is a higher priority/consideration than money (see comment above about time investment). Or when the work just isn't pleasant. Also, for the neurotic like me, piece of mind is worth spending some extra money on. (here again, if I had your mechanical skill set, I would probably have that piece of mind rebuilding used stuff!)


It seems the AJW route would satisfy your issues without the expense of buying new parts. They take the donor apart, clean the parts as they go, replace bad or bent parts, and ship it ready to install. The only difference between the AJW parts and new parts is they are used and a few may be rebuilt, which is basically the same as new, IMHO.

AJW is a great route. I have spoken with them several times. The only reason I didn't participate in the beta program was because I wasn't sure when I'd be getting my 818 or exactly what route I wanted to take. In my mind, the only reason to get completely new parts (i.e. complete kit option) vs. AJW is if the cost differential is minimal. But quite frankly, because the 818 is re-using a lot of donor components to keep the kit price low, I expect FFR will not offer a complete kit option (at least not initially), and when/if they do, it will add significant cost, making the AJW route the preferred route for people who want a "ready to build" kit.

[metalmaker12]

Xusia, I understand your view point, sorry if I came off like a jerk. I understand that time is money and you would rather buy the parts than rebuild them. The thing with new parts, like a spindle, you still need the bearings, seals snap ring, hubs,hardware etc. They don't come assembled from Subaru. Or another example is FFR is giving us axle shafts, but you still have to attach the cv joints new or used. Also all the parts that have not seen the elements, like a wire harness, steering column,cluster, etc are not any different new. Do you see where I am going. The Ajw route is good for someone who does not have the experience to do it themselves and it is what I recommend to you, or

I can add up the cost of the needed Subaru parts with my discount, and it will absolutely break 15k and you still have to assemble about 20%, just as you would do on used parts that would run you 3-7k avg donor plus new oem parts total . So ajw..... Or I still think getting a donor and having the needed parts sent out to get restored would be your absolute best bet.

[Xusia]

Metal, I get where you are coming from as well. Thanks for the explanation. I'm not totally committed to going any one particular direction just yet, but $15k would be too high for me personally.

While this conversation has been taking place, I've actually found the one and only local Subaru tuner in my area. They seem competent, and more than willing to help. They actually know about the 818 and are not only excited I'm building one, they actually want to be a part of it. Can't ask for much more than that! This opens up a lot of options for me if I go the donor route, which quite frankly is much more likely now. They know what I'm looking for, and often buy crashed customer cars for parts, so it's just a matter of playing the waiting game for the right donor to come along. They are willing to pull all the parts, and do the reconditioning work, similar to AJW. Price will be similar to AJW as well, but I won't have to pay for shipping and I'll know more about the history of the parts (piece of mind!). And of course, I can take it to him to address any issues or problems once the car is completed. If I wind up finding & buying my own donor, I could work a deal with them to trade their labor for the rest of the parts I don't need.

Very cool people! I'm excited. :)

[RM1SepEx]

The unneeded parts $ can really add up! Just got another $125 this week for some parts

[narkosys]

Where I live the selling of your un-needed parts like you are describing is unfeasible as the cost of shipping alone would negate any money that would come in if there were any market for this kind of thing out here. This is why I am going the AJW route.

MY build, MY modifications, MY decisions and ultimately, MY wallet.

P

[Samiam1017]

Narkosys I don't think where you live effects the selling of parts. most of the parts I've sold went to the west coast and I live on the east coast. As long as you don't mind spending a few min packing up parts and going to the post office.

[metalmaker12]

Nice to see you have found a link to refurbishing

[narkosys]

and my point still stands.

where I live (in the middle of butt **** nowhere, canada) the cost of shipping is high enough, even for small parts, that it would cost more to ship than what I could get for that part.

I am looking at at least 3k for shipping the kit alone never mind customs, brokerage and other fees so that 9.9k kit has now become a 15k kit before I even picked up the phone.) Sure, I can pick up a donor but by the time all is done it will still cost me 10k+ so it makes no difference if I go donor route or get my parts from AJW.

P

[AJW Performance]

Thanks for the kind words everyone.
I think its a cool idea with all new parts, but it would probably add up so quick it might end up costing close to what the entire car cost new! (Slight exaggeration there but using retail prices it will add up very quick). If budget was no issue it is surely possible, but you would need a very very detailed list of Subaru part numbers; assuming you can not get a 100% assembled engine from Subaru brand new (hoses, all sensors, all wiring,intake, timing belt- ALL pre assembled as "1 part number" etc) I am pretty sure it is all broken down into individual parts.

[BrandonDrums]

I picture AJW as somewhere between used & new because they check the donor parts, particularly the wearing parts, and know what's likely to need attention and they replace things based on the maintenance (milage) schedule. I built an FFR roadster with a "pallet" of the donor parts and I got just whatever came from the salvage yard took from the donor car "as is". They did not check anything or replace any wearing parts, but included layers of grease-dirt, mud and shipping damage. Now looking forward to crates from AJW.
Pete

I actually think if you contacted AJW they would gladly build out an estimate for a new parts kit. They inspect all the parts from the donor cars before shipping, anything beyond repair they do replace with either a working used one from another source or a brand new genuine or quality upgraded part. It wouldn't be difficult for them to just put together a kit of all brand new parts and use their wholesale discounts to make it more attractive than buying piecemeal from end retailers I imagine.

Most people are attracted to the 818 because it is an inexpensive donor-car build with very high performance potential. However, it like every other FFR offering is a great platform for people who want to go all-out on a custom build. I'm sure there will be millionaires with unlimited funds that would skip the donor and just source everything new to their own specs to make it more of an ultimate supercar killer than just an inexpensive path to a car capable of keeping up with the big dogs.

A cool car is a cool car, judging by the success of the GTM platform for attracting big budget custom builders, I imagine there will be a sizable market for fully furnished new car donor pallets for the folks less concerned about price and more concerned about build time and quality.