Question for Mechie3 on Turbo & Tune

[Xusia]

I'm interested in more details your setup - the one you liked so well (and why you liked it so well). What turbo, which mods, what did you do for a tune, etc? What issues, if any, did you run into?

The reason I'm asking is I'm thinking I'd like something similar. The problem for me is the local tuner is recommending something else. My gut is telling me it's probably more HP than I really want (I know, I know; there's no such thing as too much!). You obviously have experience driving some different setups so I'd like to get your perspective.

For reference, what he is recommending is a 2.5L with a VF39 turbo, bigger intercooler, and fuel pump. His reasoning is that with the 2.5L, the VF39 spins up only about 300 PM later (I assumed, when coupled with the proper tune), but provides a couple thousand more RPM of boost. He says the TD04 is smallish, and "falls off" early. That sounds appealing if true, although I'm a little concerned about the resulting HP and therefore the drive-ability. Mine is destined for daily driver land, and I don't plan on ever doing any competition, though regular spirited driving and the occasional track day will almost certainly be part of the regimen. I don't need this car to be wicked fast to have fun. I've already got a stupid fast bike if I really want serious speed.

Before talking to him, my plan was a 2.0L with the stock turbo (because they are cheap, can rev higher and have less torque so less chance of tire spin - just sound like more fun to drive to me, and fun is my over-riding goal), and stage 2 mods like 818 Donors recommends (catless up, larger intercooler, etc. No internal stuff). I was expecting about 250-260 crank HP, and I honestly think that will be plenty of fun for me.

So anyway, I'm really curious about your post and what you think. Others are welcome to post their thoughts too - I'll just ignore them. JUST KIDDING!!! :) <--Kidding about the ignoring part, that is... LOL

Thanks in advance.

[Mechie3]

It's a secret!!!!!


I used to autocross in ESP which didn't allow you to change your motor or turbo, so I had a stock 2.5 block and the stock TD04 turbo. For autocross I loved it. On a drag strip it wasn't bad (beat stage 2 STI's) but you definitely felt it drop off after 5500rpms. I only drag raced once and didn't do highway pulls so it didn't bother me. I made peak torque around 3100 rpms (350 wtq, ~450btq @21psi) and had a flat power curve from 3300 - 5500 rpms (243 whp, ~312 bhp). I think I hit 18 psi around 2800 rpms? For autocross and getting around town quickly it was great. Lots of corner exits were around the 3k rpm mark. I also enjoyed not having to rev it up or downshift on the highway to get going.

A turbo that spools a little bit later, but gives more top end would be great, but I'm still sticking to the td04 for now until the car is built. If I get bored later, I can easily upgrade. This is in stark contrast too my vf39 2.0 that IS NOT protuned. It has an off the shelf tune. It came with the car, I don't care to spend money to change it and don't tune myself. It requires that you try to make it go fast and make a conscious effort to do so. A protuned vf39 2.0 would do better, how much I don't know. Sti's that I've autocrossed were much better than a 2.0 vf39. One reason was the gearing being low enough that a 3000rpm corner in a wrx would be a higher rpm in an STI. The only downside was STI's often had to shift to third one or twice on course while a WRX wouldn't have to. A think a vf39 2.5L WRX would be fun. Your tuner might've recommended a VF39 becuase they're cheap (~$300 used) but IMO, I think there are better turbos if you really wanted to go for it. I think the VF43 is the same as a VF39 (more or less) but is a ball bearing turbo? Could have my turbos mixed up. I know lots of people that don't like the VF series at all and calls them polished turds, but I don't have much experience with why they feel that way so won't comment and give bad info.

All of my mods (with comments)

Cobb AP V2 (just a tuning device, any tuning device would work)
Stromung 3" Divorced Wastegate Down Pipe, heat wrapped/sprayed
Maddad 3" Midpipe
Worx Tuning 3" Catback (just a mix match of parts to make a 3" full exhaust)
Worx Tuning crank pulley (any pulley works, this one was just priced right and really light)
XS Engineering CAI
Ebay Slicone Turbo Inlet
P&P Throttle Body
Throttle body coolant bypass mod
X02 Racing TMIC (ebay brand)
Aluminum & Silicone Y pipe, PnP'd (ebayv brand)
Silicone TB Hose
PnP'd/Blue Ceramic Coated/wrapped Manifolds (GrimmSpeed)
Blue Ceramic Coated Up-Pipe/wrapped (GrimmSpeed)
Blue Ceramic Coated/wrapped Cross Pipe (GrimmSpeed)
TGV Deletes (Blue Ceramic Coated, Grimmspeed)
PnP black ceramic coated intake manifold (grimmspeed)
Aeromotive Fuel rails (not needed, did it for learning experience and bling)
Aeromotive FPR
Gruppe-S Flywheel (13.9 lbs)
AC Delete (it stopped working, so I took it out)

One thing I'm changing is no PS for the 818 (little more HP), different alternator pulley (bent the stock one when I dropped the alternator...doh!), and a tubular header. Headers used to be expensive, now they're relatively inexpensive. I bought a used prosport header and uppipe for ~$110 less than what I sold my used grimmspeed exhaust and uppipe for.

[philly15]

vf43 is not ball bearing i believe it is a thrust bearing (im using a vf43 on my build on a 2.5l) the vf34 is ball bearing but basically vf34,43,39,48 will all get you similar numbers as they are very close in design. i ran a vf39 on my last 03 wrx on the 2.0 and ran it in SM for autocross last year. i was running what some might call an "agresssive" tune it was tuned for 23 psi on 93 oct. power was excellent and pulled hard but didnt hit full boost till probably 3800-3900 rpm which might be considered late for a 2.0 but i had sti RA close ratio gears so it worked out for the power band imo the vf series turbos are nice for the 2.0 if you have a good tuner i was over the 300 whp on my vf 39 and it was a blast definitely pulled hard and held 17 psi to redline my set up on the 2.0 was

vf39
ks tech 73mm intake
sti tmic
silicone turbo inlet/after maf
cnt racing catless downpipe
perrin up pipe
grimmspeed 3 port/mbc boost control
deutchwerks 565 injectors
STI RA gears
tuned at 23.5 psi on 93 oct

ive driven a bunch of 2.5's as well with vf series turbos and the torque is just awesome but as stated power does drop off above 5500 rpms granted in an 1800 lb car this might not be as noticeable alot of people dont like the vf series because really there is only a few thousand RPM's of hard pulling power pretty much from 3k-5.5k then you really can feel it taper off but people have hit rediculous numbers on vf series on a 2.5 but not without lots of bolt ons and e85 or racegas my vf43 is ported polished and coated and im going to be running pretty much every possible bolt on with e85 primarily only reason i went vf43 is i got it pretty cheap im probably only going to run it for the first summer. if i had to pick an actual not vfseries turbo i would run something 18g or bigger ideally i would run the twin scroll blouch dom 1.5xtr (might be a future project) point here is mechie is right there are much better choices but vf series is best bang for the buck and money can be spent elsewhere the vf series would be good imo if all you plan on using it for is a fun car and not a lot of track use also i like the 2.0 better than 2.5 just because imo it seems so much more smooth and also has the drive by cable which im a fan of over drive by wire. i plan on using my 818 for the track so the 2.5 might be worth it over the 2.0

im running on the 818:
ej255
turbo xs ewg up pipe
tial 44mm ewg
turbo xs catless dp
bosch id 1000's
ported/polished intake manifold/tgv deletes
wrapped stock exhaust manifold
grimmspeed hybrid boost control (mbc,ewg,ebcs)
ks tech 73 mm intake
aftermarket turbo inlet/post maf
vf43 ported polished and coated
08+ 11mm oil pump
either process west or JDM sti tmic

also i might have to rebuild my heads so thinking about running some aftermarket stage 2 cams while i have em all apart still up for debate yet

[Xusia]

Good info guys. Thanks!

[Mechie3]

My bad. I meant VF34, not 43.

[philly15]

really any turbo is going to make the 818 a fun DD i cant freakin wait! im excited to see all the different setups people run on this thing ive seen some crazy STI setups i cant wait to see em translate over to the 818