Track Testing Gallery

[Mechie3]

A new track testing gallery is up!

https://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/project-818/

Things of note:
Black out front of 818S
Black out tail section of 818S
Gas cap added to 818S (looks temporary)
Good pic (on 818R) of space over trans
I dno't see a spacer for the downpipe to turbo anymore
They started runing with the 818S rear hatch off. Wonder if the TMIC wasn't getting enough flow?

[metalmaker12]

staggered wheels look way better on the 818r as i thought they would. I am out to get a set now

[longislandwrx]

A new track testing gallery is up!

https://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/project-818/

Things of note:
Black out front of 818S
Black out tail section of 818S
Gas cap added to 818S (looks temporary)
Good pic (on 818R) of space over trans
I dno't see a spacer for the downpipe to turbo anymore
They started runing with the 818S rear hatch off. Wonder if the TMIC wasn't getting enough flow?

Running hoosiers
Yeah the R seems to be running just an open downpipe
Tons of room in the back for mufflers/custom exhaust routing
The fuel fill on the side of the R. (never noticed this before)

[wallace18]

There seems to be a few changes on the S as well. I think it is still a work in progress. The back is looking better IMO.

[Erik W. Treves]

A new track testing gallery is up!

https://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/project-818/

They started runing with the 818S rear hatch off. Wonder if the TMIC wasn't getting enough flow?

not sure i would conclude anything close to that since it's track testing and spring changes were most likely required to dial in handling and since the back piece is just a cover...more hassle to keep taking it on and off...just leave it off until you're done... done that plenty on the cobra...run it without the hood after a engine change...only gets in the way....

[Rasmus]

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/DSC_0691.jpg
Engine Bay

[PhyrraM]

If the intercooler doesn't have something to seperate and direct air from the top to the bottom, little to no air will flow through it and it will be ineffective. All of the OEM Subaru top mount intercoolers have a seal of some sort to the bottom of the hood to keep the airflow from the hood scoop flowing through, and not around, the intercooler.

Removing the hood (or engine cover) is a fine way to make an intercooler dead weight. I'm sure Jim and FFR know this and appropriate seals and/or ducts will be part of both Street and Race packages.

[Mechie3]

It also didn't look like the 818S rear wheels were tubbed in.

[07FIREBLADE]

What wheel/tire size is the 818R running? Looking for a new set of wheels for my wrx donor right now and those look good. Whats the stagger on those wheels.

[rjh2pd]

That intercooler is pretty banged up. It also looks like there will be a good amount of storage room in the back of the car.

[jaso]

My stupid ipad won't let me see the gallery. Is it possible to upload pictures on the forum (if Factory Five allows it)?

[Samiam1017]

My iPad was kicking off it. Then would do a pic or two then kick off. It took awhile but it did flip thru them some fast some slow and kinda outa control. So I saved a few as it was doing it.?????

[Wayne Presley]

Even from the grave, Steve doesn't want you to see the pics :D

[flytosail]

My iPad was kicking off it. Then would do a pic or two then kick off. It took awhile but it did flip thru them some fast some slow and kinda outa control. So I saved a few as it was doing it.?????

Same here. IPAD unfriendly photo setup. Had to get on a normal computer.

[Turboguy]

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/DSC_0691.jpg
Engine Bay

Hmmm.


Looks like my rear diffuser will have to split around the tranny :(

[Darkpiggy's dad]

My old iPad won't view the galleries, but my newer one will.

[Mechie3]

That first pic in the galley is killing me. I can make out what appears to be an r17 on the tire, and what looks like a 225 or 275, but it's not clear enough to make a call. I'm guessing the rear wheels are 9" plus. If they're rota torques (they look to be) they don't get that concave look until you get a 9" width.

[JeromeS13]

That first pic in the galley is killing me. I can make out what appears to be an r17 on the tire, and what looks like a 225 or 275, but it's not clear enough to make a call. I'm guessing the rear wheels are 9" plus. If they're rota torques (they look to be) they don't get that concave look until you get a 9" width.

If you look at image DSC_0632, you can clearly see the 40ZR17. If you look up the sizes available for the R6/A6, the only 40ZR17 they offer are the 205/40/17, 225/40/17, 245/40/17, and 275/40/17. I'm 99% sure that isn't a 225, 245, or a 275. It does look wider than a 205, though... :-/

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Mechie3,

This Photo might help: ;)

15369

Cheers!

[Xusia]

I read a 205 in that photo.

[fact5racer]

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/DSC_0691.jpg
Engine Bay

Is he checking the oil or is that the pull rope for starting?

[WIS89]

Is he checking the oil or is that the pull rope for starting?

HAHAHA, fact5racer, thanks for the great laugh!! Too funny!! But even better is knowing how many cars that thing is going to blow past on the track!! ;-o)

Regards,

Steve

[PhyrraM]

Is he checking the oil or is that the pull rope for starting?

Neither.

He's checking the transmission gear oil.

[blueafro]

is that the pull rope for starting?

You mean like this car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbS4mVxYD4)? :)

[flynntuna]

too funny lol

[blueoval_bowtie_guy]

I just played the video clip above for my wife. She thinks it was about as interesting as doing dishes... On the other hand, I've watched/listened to it at least 6 times!

[Turboguy]

They just don't "get it", do they blueoval? :)

[C.Plavan]

205 size fronts could explain why some of the pictures have the rear wing off (Understeer)- My guess that 225 or 245 fronts with a 275 rear for a mid engine car with that huge rear wing would work.

[Slatt]

Yep, but understeer or not they prolly would've done a run w/o the wing just to assess it's effectiveness. Also note how the wing supports pass thru the deck, it looks like you cannot remove the deck w/o first removing the wing from the supports. They might've been just getting lazy!

[C.Plavan]

Well- that will kinda suck. I wondered about that rear wing. I hope they come up with an easier solution if that is the case.

[Mechie3]

I wonder if those wing mounts will be there on the S model, or if you'll have to add your own? If you need to add your own, it wouldn't make sense to order it powdercoated. Be quite a waste of money to PC it just to have to take it off and redo it.

[dbjr63]

My stupid ipad won't let me see the gallery. Is it possible to upload pictures on the forum (if Factory Five allows it)?

i have no problem viewing the gallery\pictures with my Microsoft Surface

let the bashing begin. :)

[508wrx]

I would love for the street model to have the same kind of exhaust exit at the R. The only thing I dont like about the street is the exhaust. I know, I know, still a prototype.

Heres to wishful thinking.

[Erik W. Treves]

I would love for the street model to have the same kind of exhaust exit at the R. The only thing I dont like about the street is the exhaust. I know, I know, still a prototype.

Heres to wishful thinking.

then change it on YOUR kit.....

[longislandwrx]

I would love for the street model to have the same kind of exhaust exit at the R. The only thing I dont like about the street is the exhaust. I know, I know, still a prototype.

Heres to wishful thinking.

The R has the side exit exhaust so the rear diffuser didn't need to be chopped up; but there's no reason you couldnt do the same on your S, in fact im sure a few people will throw that optional diffuser on their S to get the race look.

If the dump tube they are using makes it into production as an optional part I see no reason why you couldnt just order it however the "what you get" section on Factory Fives website makes no mention of exhaust so pretty sure you are on your own.

[Mechie3]

I want my exhaust to exit on either side of the license plate like a carrera gt.

[longislandwrx]

I have something special planned as well. not ready to let the cat out of the bag just yet... but it should be quite nifty

[wleehendrick]

I want my exhaust to exit on either side of the license plate like a carrera gt.

Ditto! I photochopped that and it looked great... I also tried moving the license plate to the upper rear facia, and painting that area black (before I saw FFR do it in the recent gallery).

[wleehendrick]

however the "what you get" section on Factory Fives website makes no mention of exhaust so pretty sure you are on your own.

But the same section also clearly states: "The 818 will include everything that is needed to build your car with the exception of running gear and parts from a 2002-2007 Subaru Impreza or WRX."

That to me implies an exhaust is part of the kit, since I don't see how the Subbie exhaust could be used.

[rjh2pd]

I wad thinking about doing a dull tip exhaust on each side of the license plate as well. The one thing that I am concerned about is getting the exhaust to the drivers side without going above the transmission since I think it will be used as a trunk.

[Mechie3]

My main concern is my skills not being able to keep up with my imagination. :D

[RM1SepEx]

Practice...

Just watched an old Top Gear, Mikka Hakkanin gave May some car control lessons. Roads are so crazy in Finland, it takes 3 years to get a full license... the roads are slippery, short humps in the road upsetting balance etc... Practice on the edge "calibrates" your butt. Do it enough that it becomes an automatic response. AWD drive cars now do so much that a monkey can drive one rather well!

I just drove home with my old Miata, Aki... 1991 viscous LSD, cheap snows...

Passed several FWD cars that were stuck... I just drove up the hills, right by them, with a 2200 lb RWD beater! :-)

The one thing that I learned dealing with my MS and numbness from the chest down... PRACTICE. PRACTICE, PRACTICE It's how we get better at everything that we do. I was actually day dreaming on how well a 818 would do... use a gear 2 spots too high and go anywhere with that tiorque. The Miata can be tricky as best traction occurs waaaay down on the rpm curve.

[philly15]

im curious i see they used the 06-07 wrx ej255 for the R version im wondering how noticeable the drive by wire is in such a light car, ive owned 3 different 02-03 wrxs with the drive by cable and when i drove my friends 07 STi i didnt like it, i was always like whats that i guess i dont wanna call it a delay, but its almost what its like not thinking about it my friend was like oh thats just how it is with DBW you can tune it out mostly but its still noticable over DBC im curious if thats as noticeable in an 1800 lb car...

[Mechie3]

Practice...


If that ^^ is in response to this vv I was refering to fabrication skills.


My main concern is my skills not being able to keep up with my imagination. :D


i dont wanna call it a delay, ... you can tune it out mostly but its still noticable over DBC im curious if thats as noticeable in an 1800 lb car...

The cobb AP can tune it out. It has to do with deadspots and the table relating pedal position % to throttle opening %. it's not 1:1 stock.

[metalmaker12]

To me it is still noticeable, it is just how the throttle response is setup. You can make it faster, and damn close, but to me it is still not the same.

[Wayne Presley]

The stock motors in both cars responded very nicely to throttle input and given the light weight the non linear throttle isn't that bad of an idea.

[RM1SepEx]

Most cable actuated throttles use cams, or some other linkage to make it non linear as well. The nice thing about DBW is how easy it is to adjust/change!
and Mechie3 fabrication skills are also improved with practice! :-)

[flytosail]

Is there anyway for more IPAD - friendly photograph option for FFR webpage?

[Wayne Presley]

Is there anyway for more IPAD - friendly photograph option for FFR webpage?

Buy a Surface or Android tablet...:D

[Xusia]

Is there anyway for more IPAD - friendly photograph option for FFR webpage?

That's the problem with trying to force a single utopian vision. When you leave Stepford, all is not idyllic...

[longislandwrx]

Is there anyway for more IPAD - friendly photograph option for FFR webpage?

just browse the directories... all the files are in there. and you dont need the slideshow.

for example the latest gallery:

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/

[flytosail]

That's the problem with trying to force a single utopian vision. When you leave Stepford, all is not idyllic...

No kidding. Apple sometimes does not play well with others.

[flytosail]

just browse the directories... all the files are in there. and you dont need the slideshow.

for example the latest gallery:

https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/

Behold...the WORKAROUND. Thanks!

[apexanimal]

Did I see a fuel cell in the pass side of the 818r?

15441

[Wild Olive]

Did I see a fuel cell in the pass side of the 818r?

15441

Wow, I did not know that the S was so much smaller that the R.

[timmy318]

Just seemed to notice that........

[Mechie3]

Just noticed that last pic has all of the vent inserts removed on the S too. Wonder if they were testing with/without to get temperature comparisons.

[Erik W. Treves]

Wow, I did not know that the S was so much smaller that the R.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15442&d=1360902444

[timmy318]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15442&d=1360902444

Lol, get your point :p. Don't think that they're that far apart. I sat in the 818 chassis earlier in June (don't know if it was the R or S) but the legroom was AMZING compared to our '33. As long as there's ample leg room I'm going to be happy!

[Erik W. Treves]

" Don't think that they're that far apart " I am sure the lens was or similar to the GoPro lens...wide angle

[Mechie3]

That was my thought too. They're high up, and there seems to be a slight curvature to the entire image.

[Wayne Presley]

Both are the same size and body panels. the only major difference is the color and wing. During the test day when both cars were on track together, it was commented a number of time how much bigger the R look. Neither car had fuel cells. When we ran the R without the wing it looked smaller too.

[Oppenheimer]

Did I see a fuel cell in the pass side of the 818r?

15441

No, that is the wiring harness cover...

[apexanimal]

^glad to hear it... Thanks

[longislandwrx]

No, that is the wiring harness cover...

Dear god I hope not. I see they also ditched the iq3 dash as well.

[Mechie3]

I think the lack of windshield makes the R look bigger. There's no visual break from the front to the rear. The S windshield breaks up a long flat line.

[JeromeS13]

Anyone else notice the 818R in the background while the driver was getting into the Coupe @ LVMS? (7:09 into the video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V96-AQ1FghI

I'm guessing this was filmed during SEMA?

[Darkpiggy's dad]

I think that the blue car might have been a challenge car, not the 818.

[Wayne Presley]

Just noticed that last pic has all of the vent inserts removed on the S too. Wonder if they were testing with/without to get temperature comparisons.

The S had a different body than it wore at SEMA. Again this is just what I saw at the test and subject to changes/revisions as the car heads into production.

[longislandwrx]

I think that the blue car might have been a challenge car, not the 818.

...This...

Graphics and cage are different. Not an 818.

[Xusia]

For those looking, it's at 7:08 in the video...

[timmy318]

Yea, I'm pretty sure that it's a challenge car. FFR brought one down to the Tampa cruise in and the car in the video matched up with the one I remember (cage, color, & graphic wise if my memory is still good :p)!

[SkiRideDrive]

So do you guys think there is a possibility of fitting a passenger seat to the R?

[FFR-ADV]

So do you guys think there is a possibility of fitting a passenger seat to the R?

Sure will be able to add a passenger seat to the 818R but it sure looks like the Petty Bar has to go and whatever (ecu?) is hidden under the panel where the passenger seat would go. Some people planning to buy the 818R with a windshield and jump the bars for street use similar to the street challenge cars.

Both the 818S and 818R have both suspension mount points so you can install for track or street (1 inch higher) on either chassis.

By the way I enjoyed your VIR video.

Cheers!

[flytosail]

Did they run the R with and without the wing? Wondering how big of differences it would make on a S version?

[longislandwrx]

Going to put a second seat in my R. No reason why that ecu box cant be moved. I'll be using one of these to make the cross bar removable...

http://www.appliedracing.com/roll-bars-cages-and-components/swing-out-bar-kits-with-clevis-mount.html

[Wayne Presley]

Did they run the R with and without the wing? Wondering how big of differences it would make on a S version?

We ran the R with and without the wing and the wing is very effective at planting the rear. We still had the splitter on the R with the wing removed. The aero package on the R worked very well.

[flytosail]

We ran the R with and without the wing and the wing is very effective at planting the rear. We still had the splitter on the R with the wing removed. The aero package on the R worked very well.

Thanks Wayne for the reply. So would you recommend a wing for the S?

[Wayne Presley]

Thanks Wayne for the reply. So would you recommend a wing for the S?

I like the way the car looks with the wing personally. I would put a splitter on it to keep the balance in the car.

[Oppenheimer]

Dear god I hope not. I see they also ditched the iq3 dash as well.

A joke based on development pic of massive un-dieted stock harness stuffed into passenger area of 818R. At that time harness took up so much room that could have been the cover for it.

[Sultan]

buy a surface or android tablet...:d

agreed!!!!

[bbjones121]

Something has got to be done about the terrible fit of the wheels to the wheel wells. It took Factory Five four iterations of the cobra roadster before the wheel wells were sized and curved appropriately. Hopefully it can be done on the first 818.

[Vwsnaps]

Those wheels look so TINY on that 818S - are those 16's ?

[longislandwrx]

17s in the front 18s in the back.. It's a big car.

[RM1SepEx]

I like the way the car looks with the wing personally. I would put a splitter on it to keep the balance in the car.

The wing won't be as effective on an S with a windshield, the airflow will be very disturbed...

[Gus]

Something has got to be done about the terrible fit of the wheels to the wheel wells. It took Factory Five four iterations of the cobra roadster before the wheel wells were sized and curved appropriately. Hopefully it can be done on the first 818.

Agreed!

[Evan78]

Those wheels look so TINY on that 818S - are those 16's ?


17s in the front 18s in the back.. It's a big car.I think you're referring to the R. The S looks to have 17's front and rear to me.

[longislandwrx]

Standing corrected, misread the post.

Those look like 17" Enkeis all around on track day. The big lip makes them look smaller.

In the studio, the S wore 18's all around. It's easy to see in the studio gallery picture 2, and picture 22

[flytosail]

The wing won't be as effective on an S with a windshield, the airflow will be very disturbed...

Was wondering about that.

[FFR-ADV]

This wing might be interesting: :cool:

http://aeromotions.com/products/by-car/r-dynamic-impreza/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=p7l70Q6P-vU

Cheers!

[flytosail]

This wing might be interesting: :cool:

http://aeromotions.com/products/by-car/r-dynamic-impreza/


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=p7l70Q6P-vU&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dp7l70Q6P-vU




Cheers!

As a pilot, that looks incredible!

[Benji]

It looks incredibly expensive.... and surprise surprise, it is :D

[Mechie3]

Believe it got outlawed for autocross use too since it was too good.

[Benji]

Believe it got outlawed for autocross use too since it was too good.

I'm confused, on the video they are claiming 1.29 seconds a lap advantage but all around their website they talk about 0.1 second advantage in a 2 minute lap.....

For $8800 I'll pass.

The more I read their site the more inconsistent they get. 0.1 seconds, 0.2 seconds, 2 seconds, 2.29 seconds claimed at Button Willow when the video claims 1.29....

[Evan78]

$3700 is the price I see.

[flytosail]

I'm confused, on the video they are claiming 1.29 seconds a lap advantage but all around their website they talk about 0.1 second advantage in a 2 minute lap.....

For $8800 I'll pass.

The more I read their site the more inconsistent they get. 0.1 seconds, 0.2 seconds, 2 seconds, 2.29 seconds claimed at Button Willow when the video claims 1.29....


Looks good in the video....so it sells. I see it as one more thing to keep working properly.

[tmpst]

$3700 is the price I see.

That would be for the STI/WRX model linked to above. The split wing model in the video is indeed $8,799.00

http://aeromotions.com/products/by-make/nissan/

The idea of split wings is really cool, but obviously expensive, and certainly ads some weight. Flexible wings, like they used to use in Formula 1, might deliver better bang for the buck.

-t

[veloce2]

one extra servo a special programmed chip and the price doubles?? In 3 years this will sell for under one K.

[Evan78]

Oh, I didn't realize we were talking about 2 different wings. I haven't seen that GTR split wing before. If I hadn't seen it in operation, I might have guessed that it lifts only the outside half instead of the inside half since I think of wings as creating downforce before I think of them as creating drag to help swing the car around a corner.

[FFR-ADV]

The wing is doing some interesting things to maximize traction and minimize drag in the straight sections, adding aero brakes when braking by raising both flaps This also keeps some down force on the rear wheels helping them to contribute more to braking, which is a double benefit Once in the corner, the outside flap lowers, but the inner flap keeps aero load on the inside wheel, while inertial forces are transferring load to the outside wheels. The inner flap lowers as the car leaves the corner, minimizing drag which maximizes speed in the straight sections

I have not looked, but expect there might be patents This might slow the future price drops down.

This has been an interesting diversion from the 818R track testing, but I would love to hear more about the 818R setup and the performance numbers.

Cheers!

[bromikl]

The wing is doing some interesting things to maximize traction and minimize drag in the straight sections, adding aero brakes when braking by raising both flaps This also keeps some down force on the rear wheels helping them to contribute more to braking, which is a double benefit Once in the corner, the outside flap lowers, but the inner flap keeps aero load on the inside wheel, while inertial forces are transferring load to the outside wheels. The inner flap lowers as the car leaves the corner, minimizing drag which maximizes speed in the straight sections

I have not looked, but expect there might be patents This might slow the future price drops down.

This has been an interesting diversion from the 818R track testing, but I would love to hear more about the 818R setup and the performance numbers.

Cheers!

Fascinating concept. How would someone program such a complicated dance? Rear wheel suspension compression vs. throttle/brake position?

[apexanimal]

Steering, brake, mph, and throttle inputs could be used to set it up...

They could be using accelerometers as well to calculate g's as well...

[wleehendrick]

They could be using accelerometers as well to calculate g's as well...

I'm sure it's all done with small MEMS accelerometers; these are used everywhere these days: In your car for stability control, airbag deployment, in GPS devices, your smartphone, etc...

If you think about it, all you need to know is a two dimensional quantity (where you are in the traction circle) to control the wing.

[FFR-ADV]

The S had a different body than it wore at SEMA. Again this is just what I saw at the test and subject to changes/revisions as the car heads into production.

Hi Wayne,

I noticed that partway into the 818 track test video the brake bias knob disappeared from the dash.

Can you tell us more about this and tuning the suspension and brakes?

From yours and others experience, is installing the suspension at track height even viable for the street?

Cheers!

[StatGSR]

one extra servo a special programmed chip and the price doubles?? In 3 years this will sell for under one K.

I doubt that, a functional fixed wing can hardly be had for under 1k and those have been around for many many years. most are $1000-2500. I was happy to find one for my integra that sold for only $600+shipping, and obviously that is not made from CF in any way shape or form.

[Wayne Presley]

The brake bias knob was in the car the whole time. Brakes were great, never touched them. We tried different suspension settings but the set up Jim brought the cars with had good tire temperatures across the tread and we tried different toe, track, ride height to make it even better.


Hi Wayne,

I noticed that partway into the 818 track test video the brake bias knob disappeared from the dash.

Can you tell us more about this and tuning the suspension and brakes?

From yours and others experience, is installing the suspension at track height even viable for the street?

Cheers!

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Wayne,

Thanks, I figured the brake bias knob was just moved from its marked home in the dash. Here is a cropped screen shot from youtube video.

16626


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mwrddKiFYBY#t=123s

I and probably many other 818S builders want to get as much of the 818R into my 818S as we can and still be able to drive it on New England streets and want to learn as much as we can from the track testing and experience forum members have with challenge cars on the street. I personally would like to retain as much track day or autocross fun as I can to create a plated track car 818SR.

Thanks for your updates and insight!

Cheers!

[SkiRideDrive]

From the video it looks like it may understeer a bit. I only saw the driver have to countersteer once on entry.

[gwader]

Nice video!

[metalmaker12]

Hard to say it is understeering, i personally dont think they were pushing it to much.
+1 on 818sr!!!!!

[longislandwrx]

Dat song!