Dash Installation Issue

[SCFFR]

Have pretty much finished all of the panel trimming and fitting for the door, hood and trunk lid so just about ready to take the body off the chassis and put it back on the body buck for storage until the weather warms up and I can get it to the painter. Will spend that time finishing out the chassis, specifically, installing the cockpit and trunk carpet and the dash.

Wanted to get a few pilot holes drilled in the top of the dash panel where it attaches to the dash hoop. Based on the numerous dash pics I have looked at, I expected to have a nice row of machine screws with finish washers below and following the arc of the cowl edge. However, the dash hoop is directly behind the rolled edge of the cowl so I can't any type of pilot holes started. I ran my hand behind the cowl edge and there appears to be about a 1/2" space between the cowl and the top of the dash hoop which I don't think is unusual.

I guess I could put some type of wedge between the cowl and hoop to raise up the cowl edge so I could get a couple of pilot holes drilled but that would mean that all of the attaching screws would lie up and behind the rolled edge.

Has anyone else run into this issue? I guess it doesn't matter if the screws that attach the top of the dash are visible, it just that on all of the cars I have seen, they are clearly visible and lie about 1/2" below the bottom edge of the cowl roll.
As always, thanks for your help,

Ron

[CS14]

Hi Ron

Wait to drill after you have put your body on for the last time. Depending on stipes on the body, you probably want to have the screws centered. You also need to be able to demont the dash panel in the future without lift the body.

Good luck

[SCFFR]

Thanks for the information.
I plan on a single color with no stripes so there will be no issue with any alignment. I plan on putting 5 screws along the top of the dash with the middle one exactly in the center of the cowl as measured between the windshield support arms.
Unless I do something to get the screws lowered, I won't be able to remove the dash once the body is installed for the last time. Also, I'm using the full width lower dash bracket from Michael Everson so I won't have clear access to the back of the dash from underneath either.
One thought was to weld some tabs/brackets on the lower edge of the dash hoop and attach the top of the dash to these instead of the hoop. This would allow me to lower the screws but this seems like a lot of work when I don't think anyone else has had to do this.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Have you finished the dash yet? Hopefully not. Short on time right now but I'll try to dig up some pics and write a description of how I've done a hidden and adjustable arrangement and post it this evening.

Jeff

[edwardb]

Agree with Jeff. And I'm sure he will have great pictures. Mount the dash from behind. You're in a great position in your build to do that. You won't be sorry. Looks cleaner and can be adjusted/removed with the body on. Did my Mk3 that way, and will on my Mk4 as well.

[Gumball]

Ron - is your cowl blocked up a bit off that top hoop? Mine is up just over 1/2" using the FFR rearview mirror spacers, as well as some additional spacers placed evenly across the entire hoop to hold the cowl up uniformly. By doing this, the rolled edge of the body should be just above that hoop.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I thought I had a better photo but if so I couldn't turn it up. While this one doesn't specifically focus on the mounting areas if you look closely hopefully you can see it as I try to describe what I did on Steve's Mk4:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/dash.jpg

The red arrow points to one of two adjustable mounts that I made (the other is in a similar position on the other side just out of camera range). Before covering the dash I countersunk and JB Welded two 1/4-20 x 2" or so flat head screws into the dash which get recieved by the slotted mounts that are riveted to the front edge of the dash hoop. This allows the dash to be adjusted vertically. Additionally it can be moved fore & aft with the nuts that sandwich the slotted mount. When it is in the proper position these nuts are tightened to lock it in place. They can be reached from below and if the dash is dropped below the body lip it can be disengaged from these mounts to remove it altogether. BTW, if you use this method be sure to fill and smooth the countersunk area on the face of the dash using Rage or similar so that the impressions don't telegraph through the pad and vinyl.

The blue arrow is pointing at one of three "legs" made of 1x1x1/8" aluminum angle stock that run from the bottom edge of the dash back to the 2X2 square chassis tube that crosses side to side behind the firewall. These firm up the bottom of the dash. (If you want to close in the entire underside Mike Everson makes a nice panel to accomplish this)

I'm not real crazy about the FFR recommendation to just wedge the ends of the dash in behind the door hinges. The green arrow is pointing to a simple angle bracket attached to the 2X2 tube that secures the dash end using a chrome button head with a nut which can also be reached from below. The other side is done similarly.

Hope that all makes sense. When all is said and done the dash is removeable and no fasteners are visible on the front.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2640-1.jpg

Cheers,
Jeff

[SCFFR]

Chris,

No, there is no spacer between the cowl and the dash loop. I had installed a 1/2" spacer back when I installed the windshield since the rubber seal on the bottom frame barely touched the cowl. Someone else had also mentioned that there were spacers with the mirror but I checked my mirror and there were none in the package. Even with the spacer, the middle of the cowl was raised up but I still had the problem on the ends, i.e. the cowl lip was below the bottom of the dash hoop.

Anyway, I spent the entire day in the garage which was just one degree above freezing but think I got my issue resolved. Since the bottom edge of the cowl lip completely covered the dash support hoop, I knew there was absolutely no way that I could run a screw through the dash and into the hoop. So, I cut some 3/4" x 1" tabs from some 1/8" plate and welded them to the front edge of the hoop where I was going to put the dash screws. I then put the dash in place and marked the bottom edge of the cowl. From that line, I went down 3/8" and made a mark which I then drilled and tapped for a 8-32 machine screw. I took the dash off and used a grinder to remove any excess material from the bottom of the tabs just to make sure it didn't interfere with anything on the back side of the dash.

Other than my fingers going numb, it turned out pretty good. I now have an even arc of screws uniformly below the bottom edge of the cowl lip so removing the dash with the body on will be possible. With the 5 screws at the top and the full width bottom cover, the dash is firmly in place. I plan on using polished stainless machine screws with finishing washers to attach the top of the dash. When I cover the dash, I will let the material run long at the top to fill the gap between the top of the dash and the underside of the cowl. I'm using Russ Thompson's turn signal assembly so I have a little filling in on the oval steering shaft hole.

As always, many thanks for everyone's feedback.

Jeff - I guess we were both posting at the same time. Thanks for the pics you posted. I definitely like your method of mounting the dash especially on the ends. Will use some simple angle brackets like you did. Thanks.

Ron
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[AZPete]

As was said above, you'll want to make the dash removable for repairs and upgrades. I used this adjustable mount with hinged panels at the bottom of the dash so I can swing the bottom panels down and reach this mount with a long allen wrench to adjust the dash up to the body or remove it. Another tip is to leave long enough wires so you can lay the dash on the console without cutting/disconnecting wires.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/AZPeteCobra/Dashmount-adjustable.jpg

[edwardb]

Here's how I did the adjustable rear mounted dash mount on my Mk3. Pretty simple angle aluminum bolted through the dash (under the vinyl), a 10-32 nut plate on the 3/4 hoop, and a 10-32 allen head cap screw hanging the dash. I installed three. One on each end and one in the center.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%203%20Roadster%20Build/Dash%20and%20Wiring/IMG_1157_markup.jpg

X2 on attaching the curved ends of the dash. I used some simple angle brackets from the hardware store. No pictures, but similar to what Jeff did.