Project Garage Heating options

[Triathletedave]

I've just purchased a new home WITHOUT a heated garage, and I plan to install some sort of heating system. I've heard that the in-floor radiant heating system is excellent if you're standing and working in the garage a lot, but is it worth the added expense over a forced air heating system? I've also heard that infrared systems are not the best because any tools stored inside cabinets will remain cold (or frozen) until you expose them to the infrared source.
What do other Kit-builders have in your garage for heating, and would you recommend it for someone who lives in a colder climate (Calgary)? Once again, any feedback for a newbie is appreciated!

[michael everson]

I put in a natural gas heater. Its mounted on the ceiling. Works perfect.
Mike

[longislandwrx]

I recently insulated the ceiling in my garage and replaced the door with an insulated version. (made a big difference) I use a 30k propane heater to take the chill off and then switch to a 1500w electric so i'm not breathing fumes all day.

[first time builder]

I put this in my 2 car garage with 10 ft ceilings, works great. They make natural gas and propane models. Due to high ceiling, I also added an inexpensive ceiling fan to force the hot air down . I could have lowered the unit when mounting but wanted it up high out of the way.
http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=50&id=117

Kenny

[Turboguy]

For anyone who is cruising this thread for heating ideas for a shop they are building, I can share a friend's experience.


He built a new 2-storey ~900 sq. ft shop in Guelph, Ontario Canada (so a decently cold winter climate) and it stays VERY warm in the winter. He installed a forced-air furnace but has never even turned it on. In the summer, it is nice and cool.

What he did was lay 2" thick styrofoam "pink" brand insulation down before pouring the concrete floor, and framed it up using 2"x6" walls (instead of 2"x4"). He insulated the walls and ceiling with fiberglass, but didn't even bother to install insulated doors. It's still toasty warm - even near the doors! I never thought that a change in construction method could make this much of a difference, but it is how I will be building my shop when the time comes.



Just thought I'd share for any that have these options available to them.

[Oppenheimer]

Is this building free standing, or is it connected to a building that is heated?

Insulation can keep the heat in, but the heat still has to come from somewhere.

[skullandbones]

X2^^^

Insulation is the way to go if you have not. Superinsulation always pays back in increased heat/cool efficiency. In AZ, our garage ambient range is 94 to 62 F year round. So the insulated 3 car garage has paid for itself as a buffer to the house plus the comfort when working there. Insulated fiberglas doors would also be great (mine ore steel insulated with some heat transfer). I have a wall air conditioner that cools the garage in the hotest summer days. But I rarely use heat during the winter. AZ is the opposite to Canada when it comes to heat/cooling process. We also got a foam roof which has tightened the ambient range even more. Spend your resources wisely up front so you don't have to rely so much on the HVAC. Good luck, WEK.

[Erik W. Treves]

OFF TOPIC ya think ???

[Evan78]

I don't have any direct experience, but as someone shopping for his first single family home, I have been trying to educate myself on home construction and remodeling. What I've heard is that in-floor radiant heating is a lot more efficient than forced air, with the down side being that it takes longer to bring up the temperature.

Have you done the math on how long it'll take for the radiant system to make up for the higher initial cost? In a retrofit situation like you're in, it seems like the initial cost would be pretty steep to replace the existing concrete floor, assuming there is one. I think you have to consider how long you'll be there, how much you'll get back on it if/when you move, how much you'll use it, etc, etc.

Wouldn't infrared have about the same effect on tools as a forced air system? Don't they just blow heated air out? Seems like in-floor radiant would be best for warming tools since you're supplying heat from under your toolbox, but I would expect it to take quite a while to warm up solid pieces of metal that are not getting much air circulation and have barriers (drawers) between them and the heat source. Maybe you can mitigate this by hanging more of them on the wall instead of storing in toolboxes. Or perforate your toolboxes ;)

[FFRWRX]

Is this building free standing, or is it connected to a building that is heated?

Insulation can keep the heat in, but the heat still has to come from somewhere.

Agreed. This makes no sense. You have to have a heat source of some sort or the cold eventually goes through the walls and insulation. Insulation changes the heat transfer, it doesn't create heat.

[Evan78]

Maybe they park a daily driver in that well insulated garage. My 2 car attached garage built in 2008 really heats up when I park my car in there.

[Evan78]

I haven't spent much time over there, but GarageJournal.com has a subforum for Heating and A/C (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=26).

[Slatt]

Insulation is always your friend in a cooler climate, I reckon you know that already. My garage is fairly well insulated but is attached and has the boiler / domestic water heater in it. It stays above 55F in there till it's below maybe -10F outside. If I want it warmer 'cause I'm moving slowly I turn up the TStat for the unit heater. Some insulation and a simple unit heater are prolly your best bet.

Radiant floor heat is a poor choice if you want to get heat on a whim since it provides heat slowly (you risk cracking the concrete if you put heat to it suddenly or too much).

[skullandbones]

OFF TOPIC ya think ???

No.

BTW, the example of the car that was just moved into the garage is a perfect example. In my insulated garage, the heat from my wife's car will bring the temp from 62 up to a comfortable 72 for quite a while. The point is: insulation allows you to use a much smaller heating system and still stay toasty warm while you're working on the car. If you can afford the luxury of radiant heat, go for it. WEK.

[Samiam1017]

It will also keep the noise level down.so you could work later.

[Racebrewer]

If you have local zoning regulations, check those before you go too far. My city won't allow a garage heating system unless it is fully insulated including styrofoam under the concrete. That's why I have a plug in 220 heater. <LOL>

Monitor kerosene heaters work really well as a stand alone heating system.

John

[fastthings]

I'll use an electric unit wired to 220 when I set up my new garage. For the last 10 years probably, Iv'e been using a little 1500, 1300 watt heater. I just set it on the floor pointed at my dog on the 1300 watt setting. Everything insolated except the door. It keeps it at 60 with ease.

[Triathletedave]

Good tips and advice. I'll certainly check the local zoning regulations first before I do anything. I think garage heating systems are allowed in Calgary so long as the system has an isolated combustion chamber fed by an outside air supply. I may be able to add an extra layer of insulation to the 2X4 walls (and the ceiling) prior to installing a heater. I agree that you're better off to insulate more and use less heat to start with, so I think the expensive in-floor system wouldn't be worth the extra cost. That leaves more $$ for the project car anyway!

[Evan78]

Is your garage door insulated? I live in sunny southern California and I have no idea if that's a standard item up there.

[Turboguy]

Have you done the math on how long it'll take for the radiant system to make up for the higher initial cost? In a retrofit situation like you're in, it seems like the initial cost would be pretty steep to replace the existing concrete floor, assuming there is one. I think you have to consider how long you'll be there, how much you'll get back on it if/when you move, how much you'll use it, etc, etc.


Food for thought - my friend in Guelph had installed in-floor radiant heat but has never installed the system or hooked it up given how warm the building has stayed from the construction methods he used. Funny thing is, it was because of the desire to have in-floor heat that he insulated the concrete slab to begin with but in the end he didn't end up needing it operable.



Good tips and advice. I'll certainly check the local zoning regulations first before I do anything. I think garage heating systems are allowed in Calgary so long as the system has an isolated combustion chamber fed by an outside air supply. I may be able to add an extra layer of insulation to the 2X4 walls (and the ceiling) prior to installing a heater. I agree that you're better off to insulate more and use less heat to start with, so I think the expensive in-floor system wouldn't be worth the extra cost. That leaves more $$ for the project car anyway!

You might want to open a wall up too, just to make sure it's insulated. I know a few people who thought their garage walls were insulated, but found out they weren't when they pulled a piece of drywall off.

[billybobracing]

Hey Dave, I have overhead radiant heating in my garage. Everything stays nice and warm. I've used it in three garages now and am very happy with it. I went away from forced air because I didn't like the dust blowing around every time the furnace kicked on. I have a single unit heating my triple garage. Check with Calcana, they often have good deals.
Cheers.
Bill

[Triathletedave]

Bill:

Was the radiant heating system much more $$ as compared to forced air? I was worried about dust problems, but more worried about spending too much. I'll ask Calcana to do a quote for me, thanks!

Evan78:

Unfortunately, insulated garage doors are NOT required (or even the norm) in Calgary, as most garages are not heated either. I have yet to find a good insulating product that can be mounted on the door that is light and can withstand all of the openings and closings. Guess I have more homework to do.

Cheers,

Dave

[Evan78]

Bill:Unfortunately, insulated garage doors are NOT required (or even the norm) in Calgary, as most garages are not heated either. I have yet to find a good insulating product that can be mounted on the door that is light and can withstand all of the openings and closings. Guess I have more homework to do.Do a search for garage door insulation kits. If you've got the typical modern door with panels that have top and bottom lips on the back side, you can fit foam panels in there. That seems to be a very common approach. If you search on the Garage Journal forum I linked to earlier, you'll find some good info.

[Samiam1017]

I've worked on heated garage floors and its well worth the money spend if you work on them a lot. But I can't see ripping up a existing floor just for that.

[Turboguy]

OFF TOPIC ya think ???

Of COURSE it is.


But until some of get our 818 kits in the garage we need SOMETHING to talk about ;)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Radiant floor heating makes a lot of sense and would be my choice if "cost is no object" but for those of us in true 4 season climates don't forget about cooling as well. Air conditioning requires a completely different system. I've zoned my garage and the house to give me the option of heating & cooling together or independently. Using a forced air natural gas furnace and conventional split system A/C I can supply conditioned air to only the garage, only the house or to both. If I don't have anything happening in the garage I keep it >45 degrees in winter and <85 in the summer but can bring it to 70 degrees from either extreme in less than an hour.

We all know to be aware of carbon monoxide when talking about unvented kerosene and propane heaters but keep in mind a second factor; they put a tremendous amount of moisture in the air which can quickly result in corrosion &/or rust issues.

Jeff

[Turboguy]

I'm curious if a water-based in-floor radiant heating system can be transitioned into an air conditioning system of sort by changing the carrier fluid and adding a refrigeration unit of some kind. Likely wouldn't be very efficient if it even worked.

[Dave Howard]

I'm in the middle of a MkIV build in Fort McMurray. Part of the planning involved an upgrade on the double wide garage. New R16 garage door...added insulation in the roof...installed an overhead forced air heater. Easiest to door for an existing garage. Nice and comfortable but the floor is still cool. Buy a nice creeper, a North Face fleece and happy wrenching.

[Gopher]

I have a radiant system in my garage its was expensive when it was installed 15 yrs ago. Like all things the price has drop if you can afford it do it working on a heated floor is great . There are a lot of web sites about DIY radiant heat. Boiler have came down on price. I can send you the program that will give you tubing layout and boiler requirements. The same boiler can be used to give you domestic hot water as well . I will not go back to forced air heat again my heating bill haved it self with the radiant system is more comfortable .

[Gopher]

I'm curious if a water-based in-floor radiant heating system can be transitioned into an air conditioning system of sort by changing the carrier fluid and adding a refrigeration unit of some kind. Likely wouldn't be very efficient if it even worked.
Yes it can . It can be done using plain water a heat pump used as a chiller or something as simple as a loop of PVC buried at least 6 ft below the ground.

[Oppenheimer]

radient heat water tubing as crude AC has the problem of heat rises. Maybe a ceiling fan would help with that.

[Triathletedave]

Do a search for garage door insulation kits. If you've got the typical modern door with panels that have top and bottom lips on the back side, you can fit foam panels in there. That seems to be a very common approach. If you search on the Garage Journal forum I linked to earlier, you'll find some good info.

I will do just that. Our new(er) attached garage is West-facing, so we will get a lot of wind exposure here in Calgary, which means a lot of heat loss in the winter. Thanks!

[conmech]

Personally, I think that the in-floor radiant heating system could be good. As for "How it works", heated floor means heated room as heat rises. I wish my house was that way.

[Triathletedave]

Personally, I think that the in-floor radiant heating system could be good. As for "How it works", heated floor means heated room as heat rises. I wish my house was that way.

So true. The heated flooring that I have seen in basements and garages is beautiful. Clean, quiet, no dust, no ugly units. The big problem for me is price. I would have to tear out the existing floor and start over. I'm still going to get the quote done, but not much hope of actually going that route.

[rjh2pd]

Instead of in floor heating, what about radiant heating through floor radiators? We have them in our house and the work fine. They are only snouts inches talk at the most and they run along the walls. You just need those a furnace and piping to and from the radiators. I don't know how well they would work Kb a garage though.