And now for something different...

[PhyrraM]

We've seen lots of what people would like to see as inspiration.

How about examples of what you don't want to see, and why?

I cannot draw, or really use CAD (even if I could afford a Solidworks licsense), so this is what I'm left with to express myself. ;)


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5093/5493844920_6de9242753.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5493844920/)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5216/5493844782_f0241dfd27.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5493844782/)

These are classic examples of trying to give the car a exotic, sexy look, but failing to understand the limitations of a home assembled car. This must be avoided at all costs. I have faith in FFR that we will not end up with bland "wanna-be" unfininished looking kits like this.



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/5493251183_f9eeb5b84c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5493251183/)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5493844714_8e7d1ff29a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5493844714/)

These are examples of what happens when you take a really good design and try to change the proportions, even slightly sometimes. It makes the whole thing a bit 'off'. This is why I don't think "low and lean" supercar styling will work.



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5092/5493844870_3a4c54b78d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5493844870/)

This is what happens when you have big ambitions and run out of budget ($10K for the FFR kit) to finish the details. This thing looks really good, but the hood latches, side windows, front fender flares and rocker covers let it down as a finished prodect. Scale back the ambitions a bit to add really OEM level details at the stated pricepoint.

And just do folk don't think I'm nothing but always critical, that McLaren F1 replica is just for an example on details. Overall that car still looks AWESOME



http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/5493251111_55f3cb6014.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5493251111/)

This is an example of when a designer has a good thing going but never stopped, stepped back and said "that's enough". Instead they just kept on adding details and features right past the point of too much. Step back every now and again-- don't over do it.

Ok, that's a few from me. What else do you think is 'the wrong way'?

[Olimk2]

I agree with you on everything, just hope it will ended good! Designing a (real nice) car is not an easy task...

[GS guy]

PhyrraM - you hit it right on the head. Very fine line between aesthetically beautiful - and cartoon-ish. A lot of the discussions about the new car revolve around existing designs of new (and a few old) exotic cars and a few prototype show cars. Unfortunately, especially for the existing well liked designs - it is a very difficult thing to alter an existing design enough to make it different without ruining the overall design. Look at all the VW re-body kits from the late 60's and 70's. Caricature cars for the most part, more often than not pegging the cartoon-o-meter! Not limited to those cars either, the new Camaro is another prime example (IMHO).
FFR will have their work cut out to get an original design without it looking "wrong".
In my mind I think a 5/8 scale GTM would be on the right track - just raise the roof a little to keep it from looking so "smashed down" and get a slightly more upright driving (and seeing outward) position.

[riptide motorsport]

All true, good topic.

[Jon A]

Great thread PhyrraM. I agree with you 100%. A lot of us (myself included) keep talking about Ferrari's, Lambo's, the Veyron, etc. The scale of those cars would not translate to the 95" wheelbase, mid-engine roadster well at all. Perhaps some design cues would work but the shape (scale really) of the car, IMHO, has to be closer to the Suzuki concept, the VW concept roadster, the Boxster, etc. Although I do not like a single body panel or the shape of the Suzuki, there is something about its minimalism that appeals to me and, I think, is in keeping with Dave's design directives... especially the $9900 kit price.

As much as I like the idea of a 5/8 scale GTM (even photochopped one when Mark began his G3F project, see below), I don't think it will work for the price-point Dave is shooting for. The GTM kit is ~$20K and the body work needed to finish the car is considerable. I don't see how you could make a mini-GTM and stay within the "no-paint gel-coat body" part of the design goal/directive.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h37/jhakayaker/GTSport-1.jpg

-Jon A.

[Oppenheimer]

In my mind I think a 5/8 scale GTM would be on the right track - just raise the roof a little to keep it from looking so "smashed down" and get a slightly more upright driving (and seeing outward) position.

You mean like the original photoshop image of what the G3F was supposed to look like?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/Mini_Roof_Window-1-500x206.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ridelust.com/smyth-g3f/&usg=__if50npnDUjz3td59kIRqaRL0hAI=&h=206&w=500&sz=22&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=iXibISj4tXCO0M:&tbnh=86&tbnw=208&ei=UKZvTf28OYj2swOWj4DSCw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dg3f%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1276%26bih%3D79 5%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=250&oei=UKZvTf28OYj2swOWj4DSCw&page=1&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=82&ty=70

[Oppenheimer]

An example to avoid of good-but-unfinished looking and maybe don't-know-when-to-stop IMO is the K1 Attack. Its just a little too much Kit, not enough Car. Stuff like the way the shocks are visible through the hood openings, the seats, etc. Its also a very aggressive look, which I think works well for what that car is trying to be, but is probably a bit more edgy than what I'm thinking would work here. Too many angles and notches.

Whoever designed that did a great job at creating a look that is balanced, with a low cartoon-quotient, and achieving a unique, aggressive appearance. I do like it. But I think FFR (and the designers that take up the challenge) can do better.

[PhyrraM]

An example to avoid of good-but-unfinished looking and maybe don't-know-when-to-stop IMO is the K1 Attack. Its just a little too much Kit, not enough Car. Stuff like the way the shocks are visible through the hood openings, the seats, etc. Its also a very aggressive look, which I think works well for what that car is trying to be, but is probably a bit more edgy than what I'm thinking would work here. Too many angles and notches.

Whoever designed that did a great job at creating a look that is balanced, with a low cartoon-quotient, and achieving a unique, aggressive appearance. I do like it. But I think FFR (and the designers that take up the challenge) can do better.

Overall, I also like the K1. I also agree it is a bit overdone. I like the fact it uses a donor windshield, but think it results in a windshield that is too big for the rest of the car. Most builders are not going to reuse a windshield, but instead opt for a new one. So the windshield is a prime candidate for something that can come from any car, not just a WRX. With the amount of interest this car is generating, maybe FFR can use volume to drive down the cost of a custom windshield and find room in the $10K budget for it.

I somewhat like the visible shocks. I think it fits the open-mechanicals, motorcycle look I think the designers were going for.

[GS guy]

K1 +++
Awesome looking but I too didn't care for the exposed shocks or pronounced "nose". I think with a little nip & tuck and some rhinoplasty it would work!
Also Jon's scaled down GTM - neat targa! And the Smithy rendering too looks good (with a little smaller wheel size it would look better IMO).
I'd like to see a scallped Dino style rear roof section & vertical rear window, This would work nicely with a Targa roof and possibly easier to mold with no large rear hatch. You could also integrate a roll bar with this design - and it would look like a hard-top with a molded targa in place. Also, keep the side rear quarter scoops - you'll need those to feed the intercooler fresh air....... :-)

Oops, getting off topic.