Engines for Type 65

[14indy]

Hello everyone! First time on this forum, usually on the GT500 forum. I own a 2008 Shelby gt500 but am very interested in building a Type 65!!! Two questions:

Which Ford engines will fit into the 65 without modifying chassis or body panels?

A few days before last years Indy 500 I saw a blue with white stripped 65 by the owners motor homes, forgot the race number on the side. Does anyone know who it belongs to?

[RonSchofield]

Windsor 302/5.0 is the one that will fit without modifications. You can get a strong 302 that will be more than enough for such a light car.

[riptide motorsport]

Rons dead on.

[14indy]

Rons dead on.

I thought I read somewhere that the new Coyote was too wide or tall to fit?

[Jacob McCrea]

Wlecome to the forum. To put a finer point on what was correctly stated above, the old Windsor 302 engine, with the 8.2" deck height, fits perfectly, with this very minor caveat: some EFI manifolds will interfere with the hood due to how it slopes between the front fenders. I imagine you'd also have trouble with certain tall intake/carb/air cleaner combos.

The 351 Windsor also fits the frame, but due to the increased deck height of the 351 block, there are additional intake/carb/air cleaner combos which will not clear the hood.

To the best of my knowledge, the various Ford modular engines (SOHC, DOHC, 3-valve, Coyote, etc.) will all fit in the frame just fine. However, you have to widen the aluminum footboxes on each side to clear the massive cylinder heads on these engines. Also, one of the most knowledgeable participants here (Karen S.) has noted that the new Boss 302 intake will probably not clear the hood on a Coupe. So, the long story short is that outside of the 302 Windsor, there are minor, and not-so-minor, fitment issues with other engines.

[Made_In_America]

It wont be until summer but I will be taking on the Coyote install. I planned on modding the frame and hood anyway so no big deal there. Stay tuned.

[Timb]

The SOHC really wasn't that much work. I just used the modular roadster drivers foot box aluminum and slightly modified the passenger foot box. Powersteering, AC and hydroboost all bolt right in place no interference
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_xfbD2QC7xw/T3eAnAhRzLI/AAAAAAAAAK4/-QEzFqJxxkE/s1600/IMG_6139.JPG More photos an video found here http://homeschoolcoupe.blogspot.com/

[ClemsonS197]

I thought I read somewhere that the new Coyote was too wide or tall to fit?

tcoon already dropped a Coyote in his Coupe. Might want to see what he had to modify....

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8400-Coyote-Competition-Coupe

[tirod]

To put a more detail into the height issue, it's really about the Coupe being fitted with the 8.2 deck in the day, with Webers on a low profile manifold. What we are constrained by is state of the art induction of 1965. They hadn't developed high rise manifolds, and styled the hood to fit what they were committed to use.

When air gaps, 4 barrels, and a 4" air cleaner are stacked on top, it's about 6" taller. Factory EFI manifolds are also tall, due to the typical wrap back they employ to make long runners.

The aftermarket offers EFI "tunnel rams" that are no taller than carb throat height, but there are few in the kit world using them yet. Lots of truck and pro touring guys are giving them a shot to fix their hood issues, too. These aren't retro looking, so they turn off some buyers. The trick is to avoid indulging in drag race induction systems, which seem to dominate the market. In a car with 8 to 1 pounds per hp, a peaky high rpm induction may be counterproductive.

[Garry Bopp]

14 Indy,

I have a 351 Windsor stroker motor. With the 351 you are somewhat limited with intake manifolds. I use an Edelbrock Performer, which is a low-rise dual plane manifold. This manifold is only good to about 5,500 rpm. If you are looking for a high rpm screamer, you would be best off going with a 302 stroker and a taller manifold. I'm very happy with my combo ... great low-end and mid-range torque and still runs well on the track, though I limit rpm to 6,000.

Garry

[STLMARSHALL]

There is another all aluminum, lightweight, readily available, FI engine that makes 400 HP bone stock that a few folks have used. It fits in the Coupe as easily as the 302 (but is 50 lbs lighter) with engine mounts and exhaust being the only modification.

[Made_In_America]

Boycott the LS Coupe :p

[Owlknight360]

You got to admit, the factory LS intake manifold will fit under the hood quite nicely. ;)

[jkrueger]

Boycott the LS Coupe :p
Good thing I am putting a LM7 in mine.. :)

JC

[Dan Golub]

The Coupe was designed by us for the 289/302/351W engines as a direct fit, and that is what the kit supports. Now, if you are willing to do or have done some modifications to a Coupe, than engines like the Ford Modular 4.6,5.4, and 5.0 or GM LS-X series engines could fit quite nicely. There is a customer in PA who used all of the MK4 4.6 parts on a Coupe with a 03 Mach 1 donor car and did minor mods to the kit to make it all work, and it looks quite nice.

Dan@FFR

[GThompson]

I've built a 302 with Webers but, after I'm bored with it, I'm going to take a SERIOUS look at an LS to replace it. Less weight, more hp, and American-made?!?! Heck yeah!!! Besides, even Peter Brock wanted to use a Chevy motor but had to use a Ford because of the homologation rules. Mike's done a heck of a job building his. I picked up a book about LS engine swaps and am learning as much from that as I can.

[tirod]

The LS has a lot going for it, in comparison to what Ford offered in the same timeline, I can't throw stones. As the Coyote moves along, tho, I see it being very competitive for exactly the same reasons - weighs less, more hp, and check those crate motor prices right now. Not bad at all.

There's a thread on TOS about carbon fiber bodies, the discussion is basically what price does light weight cost? In the kit world, we can spend a lot of money for some exotic stuff, but that doesn't mean we get 2X the performance for 2X the cost. When you run hp to weight ratios as low as these cars go, it's really incremental - and a serious boost in hp needs the necessary improvements in driveline strength, braking, and a dedicated program to sort out the handling. It's something the 427 was notoriously weak at - barely a second faster on some tracks compared to the older leaf spring front end 289.

It's a complete package when it's done, don't go overboard in one area or paint yourself into a corner. If the car is being built with 50-150 more hp than a donor, it's gonna need a chassis capable of it, and that means things like single piston rear calipers won't make the grade. The factory upgrades with horsier motors, and that's their professional recommendation. Engines are the individual's choice, just sayin, don't lose focus on the whole car.

It seems to be an unstated rule of thumb, spend money on the motor, and you wind up spending just as much to modify the chassis so the horsepower can be used.

[14indy]

Thanks "tirod" , very good points. Probably going with 302 with webers. But sure would be nice to have an all aluminum engine! Must stay with Ford engine though.

[Garry Bopp]

Indy,

You might check with Ford Racing catalogue or Dart ... I'm pretty sure both offer aluminum blocks for the 302.

Garry

[14indy]

Would the engine from FRPP #M6007-X302 which is a factory remanufactured 306 CI engine fit without modifying frame/footboxes? Also, I assume this would work with Weber type FI?

[Made_In_America]

How about this Coyote

[Jeff Kleiner]

Would the engine from FRPP #M6007-X302 which is a factory remanufactured 306 CI engine fit without modifying frame/footboxes? Also, I assume this would work with Weber type FI?

That engine is what the the car was designed around so yes, it fits without mods. For best results with Webers a cam change might be in order; the X 302 has an E cam which is probably not the best choice.

Jeff

[Movieman]

How about this Coyote

I think I just wetted myself! :D

[nailhead]

Anyone know if the 426 Hemi fits in the frame?

I know it isn't Ford, but they are beautiful motors.

[Austexican]

The weight and external dimensions of the 426 Chrysler Hemi are so extremely large that I can think of only one application that incorporated this engine in a sports car application. In the 1970's, Monteverdi of Switzerland produced a mid-engined show car they named the Hai (meaning "shark" in German). That car never went into production. I am reminded of the Kurt Weil-Bertolt Brecht song from "Die Dreigroschenoper".

"Ach der Heifisch hat scharf zahne und er trag ihm im gesicht. Literally the German words translate to: "Oh the shark-fish has sharp teeth and he carries them in his face."

We know the verse recorded by Bobby Darrin and Louis Armstrong as "Oh the shark has pretty teeth dear, And he shows them pearly white, just a jack-knife has MacHeath dear, And he keeps it out of sight."

I think the 426 Hemi is a beautiful engine that deserves to have a dragster or a hot rod designed for it. It has no place in a Daytona Coupe which was designed for optimum performance in endurance racing conducted on a road course. Endurance racing places a premium on light weight, sustainable output for high speeds, and durability for 24 hours of racing. The 426 Hemi excels in quarter mile acceleration.

[Movieman]

^^^^ So here I am nice and mellow at midnight and I read "Officer, I was't speeding. I was qualifying!"
Cracked me up, wish I'd had that line back in August 1975 when a Mass state trooper clocked me at 154.6MPH on Rt 95N...:D

[Austexican]

I'm so glad you enjoyed that line, Movieman. A week ago last Saturday I was returning to Austin from Houston, where I had been invited to participate in the Jaguar Alive event that provided a test drive of the entire Jaguar line-up for 2014 on an autocross, a slalom, and a low-traction hazard course at Sam Houston Race Park. I got stuck on Hwy 290 in about two miles of stop-and-go traffic on an eighty degree day caused by folks exiting the highway to make their way to Kyle Stadium to attend the Texas Aggie football game. The Daytona was approaching overheating and I was approaching apoplexy in my desire to get back to Austin. Now, I don't really have any personal animosity for Aggies. My grandfather graduated from A&M at the age of 19 with a degree in Civil Engineering in 1906 and he was a member of the Corps and played football in the days before helmets were required. That might explain his broken nose and his lack of teeth! However, I attended the University of Texas in Austin and so did my mother and father. Aggies and Longhorns don't normally find themselves in the same social circle. When I escaped the Aggie snarl I opened the throttle and as I approached Bastrop, a county Mountie in the opposite lane lit up his roof rack and made an excellent hand-brake bootleg U-turn. The posted limit was 70 mph and the shoulder was about three feet wide with a steep drop into a weed-filled ditch, so I put on my blinkers and proceeded about a mile and a half until I could pull off into a dirt road leading to some farmer's cow pasture. The deputy said he clocked me at 81 in a 70 mph zone. In Texas this qualifies as obstructing traffic! So, I lifted the hood to display my Connecticut issued VIN, gave him my driver's license, and my insurance card. Then we spent fifteen minutes discussing the virtues of a Factory Five build. I think Dave Smith ought to put me on a retainer for representation activities. The deputy let me go wi. th a warning. I proceeded 12 miles to the Hwy 130 toll road where the posted limit is 85 mph. I was cautious. I don't think I exceeded 100 mph.

[Movieman]

Austin,TX,,Memories..I was invited down there for AMD's Bulldozer rollout I think it was Sept 1,2011..
Now I'm a New England Yankee and the day I got there it was 107F at 4PM and still 99F at midnight but that didn't stop these people.
I was introduced to Texas hospitality ina big way.
Everyone I met greeted me with a smile and an open hand of friendship. Outside of the proceedings at AMD
we were taken on a tour of the new building for "Austin City Limits" downtown and then across the street diagonally to a restraunt( I forget the name) that was built in the early 1800's
They'd booked the room upstairs and Dear Lord the meal they put out.
Name it and it was there and a few things I'd never even heard of..
I will always remember the trip and most of all for the hospitality I was shown..
You could not ask for better from your own family..

Oh, the end of the stop by that Mass trooper was He walked up to my car window, I had my license and registration ready in my hand and the first words out of his mouth was "What the hell you got in this thing? I clocked you at 154.6MPH"
( Now the car was a 1969 Ford Custom ex state police car,428ci,auto,3:00 rear, that I'd replaced the autolite carb with a 800cfm Holley and replaced the ignition with an Accel distributer and coil)
I looked at him and said "It's stock" He said "Your full of sheet" I said" It is, it's an old state police car":
That broke the ice and he smiled.. Wrote me up for 76 in a 55 zone and that cost me $50.00
I was 23 back then, now 61.. Memories..:D