Ford Eco-Boost

[flynntuna]

Has anyone heard if the Ford Eco-Boost is still being considered as a possible drivetrain down the road. I won't be building for a year or two, so I still have time to look at a lot of options.

[wallace18]

Has anyone heard if the Ford Eco-Boost is still being considered as a possible drivetrain down the road. I won't be building for a year or two, so I still have time to look at a lot of options. I think your time frame of about 2 years would be close. Nothing new has come out. My guess is they are too busy with startup on what they have now to put time into the ECOBoost deal right now. If they even do it.

[RM1SepEx]

Yes, Dave mentioned their relationship and desire to work with Ford. The EcoBoost engine is a future possibility for a high mileage 818 coupe in the future. You are correct, they have enough on their plate for now...

[Nuul]

The 999cc 3 cylinder EcoBoost did win engine of the year in 2012, it'd be interesting to see someone use one of those though I don't think it's going to be available from Ford as a crate. The only EcoBoost crate I know of is the 2.0L and I don't think that's even order-able yet. On top of that we have no idea what would fit - though it's still fun from a purely academic standpoint to think about :)

1.0L EcoBoost:
http://i.imgur.com/HvM9t.jpg

2.0L:
http://i.imgur.com/pKK3B.jpg


The "Concept" that kicks off the I-4 lineup is a direct-injection, 2.0-liter engine that features independent variable valve timing and will be available in the spring of 2012. Other offerings will mirror the new line of powerful and technologically advanced engines in production Ford vehicles, including those with "EcoBoost" turbocharging.

All engines will be available as "plug and play" kits that include the necessary interface components for proper installation. The range of applications for this new line of production-based I-4 crate engines is enormous from race cars to street rods, kit cars to off-road buggies and even marine installations. The new four-cylinder lineup will form the widest range of production-based crate engines since the debut of FRPPs successful 5.0 V-8 crate engine program.

Ford Racing Performance Parts 2.0L NA "Concept" Crate Engine Specs:

2.0L Ti-VCT direct-injection I-4, as used in the 2012 Ford Focus
Displacement: 122 cubic inches
Induction: naturally aspirated, gasoline direct injection
Horsepower range: 160 to 175 (estimated)
Torque: 145 to 155 lb.-ft. (estimated)
Compression ratio: 12.0:1
Bore x stroke (in.): 3.44 x 3.27
Valvetrain: DOHC with twin independent variable camshaft timing
Fuel delivery: engine-mounted, high-pressure, direct-injection pump

[RM1SepEx]

Dave talked about Ford's offerings during my last visit but like several other threads I think that the forum is getting ahead of itself... :-)
That 2.0L looks awfullt tall!

[dbjr63]

i am with you, i am planning to build an 818 in about 2 years and i am holding out hope that i can build it with a Ford Ecoboost engine.

[BipDBo]

There has been a lot of talk about using the Ecobost for a high mpg build. I'm thinking that it could also be a very good application for performance. I have heard that they have great tuning potential. Perhaps someone could even shoehorn in the V6, which I've heard is very easy to tune to 600 hp. A V6 might have to settle for an auto gearbox. A definate advantage that the Subaru boxes has, though, is the low cg.

[Mechie3]

What's the benefit of the ecoboost over something like Subaru's newer FA/FB motors? The 1.0L Fiesta weights 2,427lbs and gets an estimated 41mpg highway with 120hp. The 2013 Impreza weighs 2,911 and gets around 36mpg highway and makes 148hp. I would think that if you dropped almost 500lbs off the impreza (and ditched the AWD) it would make as good, if not better, mpg as the 1.0L ecoboost motor. Plus, the newer FA/FB motors are much closer to the EJ motors and a much easier fit with the same low center of gravity and transmission options we get with the EJ.

[dbjr63]

i would look at the 2.5L turbo Eco Boost engine. 250HP with high gas milage. best of both worlds in the 818.

[PhyrraM]

i would look at the 2.5L turbo Eco Boost engine. 250HP with high gas milage. best of both worlds in the 818.

That would be the 2.0 EcoBoost. IIRC there is no 2.5 in the lineup.

[rjh2pd]

Phyrram is right, no 2.5, they have A 1.0 I3, 1.6 I4, 2.0 I4, and a 3.5 v6. Here is a link to the power they put out, just remember when you turn up the boost you lose fuel economy. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EcoBoost_engine

[BipDBo]

What's the benefit of the ecoboost over something like Subaru's newer FA/FB motors? The 1.0L Fiesta weights 2,427lbs and gets an estimated 41mpg highway with 120hp. The 2013 Impreza weighs 2,911 and gets around 36mpg highway and makes 148hp. I would think that if you dropped almost 500lbs off the impreza (and ditched the AWD) it would make as good, if not better, mpg as the 1.0L ecoboost motor. Plus, the newer FA/FB motors are much closer to the EJ motors and a much easier fit with the same low center of gravity and transmission options we get with the EJ.

I don't think that Ford has released EPA tested mpg numbers for the 1.0 liter Fiesta, but I've heard speculations of around 45 mpg. The Euro spec Focus with the 3 cyl probably gets over 40 mpg. The current 2012 Fiesta SFE with a NA 1.6 liter gets 29/40 mpg (city/highway). The Impreza gets an impressive 27/36 mpg, but they had to use a CVT to get this. The 6 speed manual gets 25/34.

On larger cars, like the Focus, the 1.0 liter engine is a bit overworked, so you don't see such a great real world efficiency advantage. It will be a much better fit in a smaller, lighter car, like the Fiesta, and even more so, the 818. In a smaller car, it will be able to achieve much better mpgs, especially if its given a nice tall final gear ratio. The 1.0 liter 3 cyl with its gearbox will also likely be a bit lighter than the boxer. Its smaller physical size may also lend well to a hybrid build.

I've heard that since it has direct injection, its very easy to tune to much higher power, without sacrifice much efficiency. Check out this application, where this engine is tuned to 202 hp in a car that isn't all that much lighter than an 818 could potentially be:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078921_fast-frugal-fun-ford-1-0-ecoboost-laps-nurburgring-in-race-car

[Mechie3]

I don't think that Ford has released EPA tested mpg numbers for the 1.0 liter Fiesta, but I've heard speculations of around 45 mpg. The Euro spec Focus with the 3 cyl probably gets over 40 mpg. The current 2012 Fiesta SFE with a NA 1.6 liter gets 29/40 mpg (city/highway). The Impreza gets an impressive 27/36 mpg, but they had to use a CVT to get this. The 6 speed manual gets 25/34.



I looked up some magazine test drives to see what they got for the 1.0 ecoboost fiesta. I know the impreza used a CVT, but my main point was that it was also 500lbs heavier and AWD. If FWD drivetrain losses are ~15% and AWD is around 22%, that's a 7% gain in efficiency right there. 500lbs is also ~16% the total weight of the impreza.

Basically, is the ecoboost motor better than the FA/FB motor or is it simply a combination of a good motor combined with a better drivetrain and lower platform weight yielding higher numbers?

[BrandonDrums]

What's the benefit of the ecoboost over something like Subaru's newer FA/FB motors? The 1.0L Fiesta weights 2,427lbs and gets an estimated 41mpg highway with 120hp. The 2013 Impreza weighs 2,911 and gets around 36mpg highway and makes 148hp. I would think that if you dropped almost 500lbs off the impreza (and ditched the AWD) it would make as good, if not better, mpg as the 1.0L ecoboost motor. Plus, the newer FA/FB motors are much closer to the EJ motors and a much easier fit with the same low center of gravity and transmission options we get with the EJ.

That's what I'm thinking. Give it 2-3 years and the next line of Subaru engines will probably come pretty close to the Ecoboost efficiency and the 818 wouldn't need to be re-engineered to fit the gloriously tall I3/I4 tower of power ford ecoboost engines.

I love Ford though, and the Ecoboost engines are AMAZING so I'm sure if there's a will there's a way. I just happen to think the FA engines by Subaru will kinda make re-engineering the 818 to fit the ecoboost mills a bit pointless. They are so tall that I think the 818 would need to have a completely re-engineered rear chassis and rear body.

[Nuul]

On larger cars, like the Focus, the 1.0 liter engine is a bit overworked, so you don't see such a great real world efficiency advantage. It will be a much better fit in a smaller, lighter car, like the Fiesta, and even more so, the 818. In a smaller car, it will be able to achieve much better mpgs, especially if its given a nice tall final gear ratio. The 1.0 liter 3 cyl with its gearbox will also likely be a bit lighter than the boxer.

I believe the 2014 Fiesta is getting the 1.0 liter as an option though it's more expensive than the 1.6 liter. I think you're right about the 1.0L working OK power wise in an 818, it's not going to feel that under-powered (123 HP and 125 lb-ft) in such a lightweight car.

[BipDBo]

That's what I'm thinking. Give it 2-3 years and the next line of Subaru engines will probably come pretty close to the Ecoboost efficiency and the 818 wouldn't need to be re-engineered to fit the gloriously tall I3/I4 tower of power ford ecoboost engines.


There's probably a lot of truth to that. What's seems to be holding back the efficiency of the boxers is the lack of direct injection (DI), which everyone seems to be developing now. This is especially true of turbo'd engines. DI eliminates pre-ignition, so you can force induction without killing your efficiency by lowering compression. Basically, Ecoboost = DI+turbo, which is an idea that was around for a while before Ford cleaverly started maketing the name, "Ecoboost." Part of the partnership between Toyota and Subaru was that the Subaru boxer that went into the BRZ/FR-S was fitted with a DI system developed by Toyota. Subaru is currently working on adding turbo to that engine. When they do, they will essentially have Ecoboost in a lower CG boxer form.

[Mechie3]

The JDM legacy DIT and the USDM 2014 Forester XT have an FA20 (think it's the FA, might be an FB?) that is direct injection turbo (hence, DIT name). It doesn't use the toyota DI though IIRC.

[rjh2pd]

Mechie3 your right, no Toyota di it's Subaru's own. The numbers those engines put out are very Impressive

[Mike N]

It seems to me that the 818 chassis would accommodate a lot of 4 or 6 cyl FWD engine/transaxles without a lot of major work as long as you had reasonable fabrication skills and equipment. Ford Focus, VW Jetta, Honda Civic etc could all be viable powerplant donors. It would probably be easier to use the Impreza hubs etc and fabricate hybrid driveshafts rather than try to transplant the complete FWD sub frame and suspension.