818s (Nov 2012) Coupe Add-ons

[Vman7]

This is just a mock up for right now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13567&d=1353467716
13567

I am working on a so called "Soft Top option", but it actually has hard side pieces with a soft top that all folds down flat to be stored.

David

[HelluvaEngineer]

That is fantastic!

[MiniVanMan]

That is dead on sexy.

[MST Engineer]

Any chance for a removable hard targa top? I love this roof line but would still love to go top off on occasion.

[terse]

exactly what i would want.

where do i put down my deposit for that?? :D

[timmy318]

Exactly what I would want man! Looks like that hardtop could possibly be made to be removable???? Great job though and dude, that sure as hell isn't a "mock-up", that my friend is a vision!!!

[jlahl3160]

Vman,
As always, a great job & vision for the line.

Thanks,
John

MST,
Look again closley, you may see a line at where the targe would seperate. ( I also would like to see it ina targa.)

John

Any chance for a removable hard targa top? I love this roof line but would still love to go top off on occasion.

[Kwizatz-haderah]

Sexy!

[Xusia]

Holy I-can't-wait-to-buy-it situations Batman! Vman, that's better than I imagined. I seriously hope that shape - or something very close - is realistic for the 818, AND that a targa is an option (as shown on your rendering). Oh, man...

[Vman7]

Thanks everybody! :)

Here is what I like to call a "Quick Top", has hard sides w/a soft top, which can be broken down to be stored.

This is just a mock-up.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13571&d=1353477182
13571

Soft Top mock-up

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13572&d=1353477270
13572

I would do more tonight, but I have to get up early wed.

David

[Hayai]

I love it! WOW!

[timmy318]

"clear!"

[narkosys]

I concur with every one here. I especially like the first picture you posted. i would buy that in a heartbeat!

P

[Turboguy]

Great work as usual, David! My fave would be the first one.


You know - seeing the 818 with a hardtop makes the area forward of the A pillar look -I dunno- different. Either that or perhaps I just haven't seen a profile shot of the 818 roadster before.

I'm not sure what it is, but there seems to be something about FFR designs -- they're bang on from the A-pillar back, but going forward - the car is not at the same level. Looking at the picture again, it almost seems as if there is too much fender and/or hood bulge above the front wheels. In fact, the car has a similar traits in this respect to the GTM, which make it look so awkward from the same view. The unequal front and rear overhang may also be contributing to the awkwardness.

Hmmmmmm.

[narkosys]

I was looking at the rear of the B pillar and thought about putting in some of Shane's NACA ducts (http://vraptorspeedworks.com/wing-window-naca-ducts-pair/) to bring in more air into the engine bay. Mind you if the body if plastic that may take a bit of work O.o

P

[flytosail]

Would roll up/ roll down windows work with this?

[dbjr63]

This is just a mock up for right now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13567&d=1353467716
13567

I am working on a so called "Soft Top option", but it actually has hard side pieces with a soft top that all folds down flat to be stored.

David

sold, take my money. this is exactly what i want.

[carbon fiber]

changes the whole look of the side view with the longer, sharper extentions towards the rear. looks great.

[Gus]

This is just a mock up for right now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13567&d=1353467716
13567

I am working on a so called "Soft Top option", but it actually has hard side pieces with a soft top that all folds down flat to be stored.

David

Holly F**ng Cr*p that is amazing!!!!!!!

Thanks so much for your contribution (again)

That is what I want, don't care if the premium is 3-5k$!!!

[Gus]

Hey Vman7 thanks for the new desktop wallpaper :D

[Nuul]

sold, take my money. this is exactly what i want.

Agreed. This is exactly what I'm looking for out of the 818C.

[Zodiac]

that hard top is exactly what I want. take my money already and give me the kit :p

[Gus]

13573

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13574

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link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4)

[Triathletedave]

Wow, that is beautiful. I really like the first picture. Smooth lines, great flow to the body!

[Xusia]

This is just a mock up for right now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13567&d=1353467716
13567

I am working on a so called "Soft Top option", but it actually has hard side pieces with a soft top that all folds down flat to be stored.

David

I still like this one best. I'm a fan of using the side pillars as intakes (as rendered). It seems like it would increase the air flow over the inter-cooler improving performance. I could be wrong. Still looks cool though!

[shim2]

This is just a mock up for right now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13567&d=1353467716
13567

I am working on a so called "Soft Top option", but it actually has hard side pieces with a soft top that all folds down flat to be stored.

David

Yes please

[MiniVanMan]

Vman, you mentioned this before in a thread, and it's really prominent with your rendition. The smooth, clean lines of the top add a much smoother, and I'll say elegant feel to the car. However, the circled part keeps distracting me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/glevii/818targa.png

It's really the only critique I have of the car. Hopefully it's punched out for some lights or something.

Overall the car kind of has an Audi S5 feel to it.

[flynntuna]

Great work. I know Dave respects your work and efforts, let's hope its sooner than later.

[07FIREBLADE]

Perfect... Sign me up

[Kwizatz-haderah]

Awesome

[slopoke]

INCREDIBLE!!! V man ... IF I ever win the lottery ... thanks for sharing and where do we send the check? LOL

[Vman7]

Thanks Everybody!!:)

I have been studying the pictures at FFR's website, trying to come up with an idea for attaching the front part of the coupe top as well as a soft top.

As of right now the coupe/targa, and soft top, come out to an overall height of 44.75". Which is pretty close to the Vantage overall height, which if I remember right was at 46". I would like to see if I can figure out a way to tweak out about another .75" in height to get a little more head room, which would give the car an overall height of 45.5". I don't think it will look much different, actually it might look a little better. Be surprised at just how an .5" to an 1" can make a different in head room height.

After studying the "A" Pillar, it looks like it is set up something like the GTM, not just a window frame, but also acts as a "A" pillar, so might not have to add a Pillar "so called" skin to form the shape. Just start at the top with the roof.

I know from this side view you can't really see the overall roofline symmetry. If you look at the the top hardline on top of the front and rear fenders, that same type of symmetry will follow on the roofline and down to the back deck, if that makes any sense.......lol

The rear deck venting is a lot different of course since the 2 seat humps will be gone.

Bunch of thoughts going through my mind right now, way to hard to explain in words to do it any justice.......lol

I tell you this soft top option is a real challenge, not so much the overall design, but the way the frame structure is done. I was thinking of something along the lines of a tent pole system with a few light weight molded plastic frame parts, think of a backpacking, or mountaineering tent system (gee can you tell I am into backpacking....lol). I like the idea since you can create also most any shape you are trying to achieve, that and it would be light weight, easy to store, and if done right can really handle a lot of wind.

Ok enough ranting on.....lol, back to some work...lol

David

[Vman7]

oh btw has anybody been thinking of a rear spoiler or a low wing idea of some kind?

[metalmaker12]

yea I like a low wing idea, Like the one on this elise 13581

[Vman7]

yea I like a low wing idea, Like the one on this elise 13581

Yeah, that's kind of what I had in mind, something along those lines for a spoiler. I was thinking of something that could just be slipped over and attached from the inside, but as of right now the way the rear deck seam and the rear seam meet, not sure how that could be done without changing that.

[wjfawb0]

That's an exige, isn't it?

EDIT: All loti rears look the same I guess. My neighbor has a red one and it seems like the older models don't have such big butts. :D

[FFR-ADV]

Thanks everybody! :)

Here is what I like to call a "Quick Top", has hard sides w/a soft top, which can be broken down to be stored.

This is just a mock-up.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13571&d=1353477182
13571

Soft Top mock-up

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13572&d=1353477270
13572

I would do more tonight, but I have to get up early wed.

David

Hi David,

Great to see your work once again! This is a VERY interesting option! I have always REALLY liked your Targa Vantage version!

BTW can the rear modifications you showed earlier be done with cutouts and inserts in the existing rear clip?

Have a Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

Steve

[FFR-ADV]

oh btw has anybody been thinking of a rear spoiler or a low wing idea of some kind?

Hi David,

DrieStone had posted an interesting low wing concept in the Super-GT thread from earlier this year.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?6550-818-Super-GT-Style

13582

Happy Thanksgiving!

Steve

[Xusia]

Hi David (Vman7),

Forgive me if you have experience with soft tops, but in case you don't I wanted to point out a tent might not be the best thing upon which to base the structure for a soft top. The reason is that a tent structure only bears weight in one direction: Down. At even modest highway speeds, most tops create lift and start to pull up on the supporting structure.

On the positive, I do like the idea of something that breaks down to store easily. It's not as convenient as a folding top, but I don't see a folding top as reality on the 818, and I don't mind some roadside assembly (I've certainly done it before).

[timmy318]

Now this is what I like! IMHO, I wish that the side vents would be more stretched out into the door like the one shown here: 13583
I like the one above too (not even sure that there's a difference). Not too keen on the spoiler, would like something more GTM like but that just me..... But yea, those vents would look amazing on the 818!

[Vman7]

Hi David,

Great to see your work once again! This is a VERY interesting option! I have always REALLY liked your Targa Vantage version!

BTW can the rear modifications you showed earlier be done with cutouts and inserts in the existing rear clip?

Have a Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!

Steve

Thanks Steve :)

I will be working on that again, but since Dave Smith kind of wanted a soft top opt. idea for when they start selling them, and a coupe/targa idea for a possible opt. later, I am kind of focusing on those right now. But I will be working on the rear as well as the front, those are my 2 fav. area to work with since you can do a lot with them.


Hi David,

DrieStone had posted an interesting low wing concept in the Super-GT thread from earlier this year.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?6550-818-Super-GT-Style

13582

Steve

Yeah I saw that back then, it's ok, doesn't seem to flow that well with the car. Some kind of spoiler might look better, but then again I might be able to come up with some kind of low wing design that may look good without over whelming the over all design of the car.

[Vman7]

Hi David (Vman7),

Forgive me if you have experience with soft tops, but in case you don't I wanted to point out a tent might not be the best thing upon which to base the structure for a soft top. The reason is that a tent structure only bears weight in one direction: Down. At even modest highway speeds, most tops create lift and start to pull up on the supporting structure.

On the positive, I do like the idea of something that breaks down to store easily. It's not as convenient as a folding top, but I don't see a folding top as reality on the 818, and I don't mind some roadside assembly (I've certainly done it before).

Very good point :), I don't have really any experience with soft tops. Kind of hard to put into words what I have in mind.

If you can kind of picture this, along the door above would be a frame of some kind, some type of plastic shaped piece, a crossbar from side to side both front and just behind the seat. The fiberglass pole would work as ribs to give tension for the top. Hope that kind of make sense.

I have never been a fan of soft tops for sports cars, they always look like an after thought. That's why I was trying to think of a combo hard shell side piece and crossbars with a soft top, like the "Quick Top" idea.

Like you said have to worry about air lifting the top, and that's where the challenge comes in. Make it structure wise strong, but yet light weight, and still be good looking.........oh how I love a challenge :)

[Vman7]

Now this is what I like! IMHO, I wish that the side vents would be more stretched out into the door like the one shown here: 13583
I like the one above too (not even sure that there's a difference). Not too keen on the spoiler, would like something more GTM like but that just me..... But yea, those vents would look amazing on the 818!

Yeah that is one of my fav looks as well, never know it might be in the future :)

[terse]

13573

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13574

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link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4)



i've been thinking of this since day 1. YES!

[el_jefe]

Spot on, that first post has exactly what I want

[Xusia]

Very good point :), I don't have really any experience with soft tops. Kind of hard to put into words what I have in mind.

If you can kind of picture this, along the door above would be a frame of some kind, some type of plastic shaped piece, a crossbar from side to side both front and just behind the seat. The fiberglass pole would work as ribs to give tension for the top. Hope that kind of make sense.

I have never been a fan of soft tops for sports cars, they always look like an after thought. That's why I was trying to think of a combo hard shell side piece and crossbars with a soft top, like the "Quick Top" idea.

Like you said have to worry about air lifting the top, and that's where the challenge comes in. Make it structure wise strong, but yet light weight, and still be good looking.........oh how I love a challenge :)

I think I understand the look you are going for and I like it. I just think you will want to use a material other than fiberglass poles for the ribs. They are flexible and create tension when spring loaded like that (as used in tent applications). The problem is when the top begins to pull up, it is pulling in the same direction as the spring loading and there is therefore no resistance provided. If I may suggest, something not flexible may work better.

If you are worried about tension, that is usually achieved by stretching front to back using some kind of anchor point in back, and a latch along the top edge of the windshield. That latch mechanism usually has a lever that allows you to both pull the top tight and secure it. Although not similar [at all] in design, military ammo can latches are similar in function.

[Vman7]

I think I understand the look you are going for and I like it. I just think you will want to use a material other than fiberglass poles for the ribs. They are flexible and create tension when spring loaded like that (as used in tent applications). The problem is when the top begins to pull up, it is pulling in the same direction as the spring loading and there is therefore no resistance provided. If I may suggest, something not flexible may work better.

If you are worried about tension, that is usually achieved by stretching front to back using some kind of anchor point in back, and a latch along the top edge of the windshield. That latch mechanism usually has a lever that allows you to both pull the top tight and secure it. Although not similar [at all] in design, military ammo can latches are similar in function.

All great points. I guess the best thing would be to come up with the frame etc., and let FFR out just what material to use etc., since they can have hands with it and do testing etc.

[FFR-ADV]

Hi David,

You are on the right track.

You can overcome the pull in the direction of the bent flat bars by pulling between the center of the bent bar and the center of a bow strap. The only problem with this method is that it can create very large "toggle forces" in the direction of the bar. The length of the tie strap needs to be adjusted correctly and sufficiently stiff so it does not stretch and allow the toggle force to spread the gap by bending the windshield frame or Targa bar. If the soft Targa top could sit rigidized (free like a tent) but stiffened by the center straps, then it could be installed as if it were just a rigid panel (equivalent to staking it down). So the panel is rigidized by toggle forces and then the fabric (such as Sunbrella) stretched over it. The same Dzus fasteners used on the 818S hood could hold such a top down along the edge of the windshield and Targa bar as Xusia suggests.

Much can be learned from the backpacking / mountaineering community about making things simple and light. When someone has to carry something up a big mountain weight matters, but so does reliability since your life might literally be on the line.

Can't wait to see how your modifications develop.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Steve

[carbon fiber]

i like the duck tail spoilers myself. maybe a modern,innovative version.

[Xusia]

Hey Vman7,

I did some digging on the internet and found a good representation of a top frame:

http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/MGBTops/images/454-500_490-tt.jpg

This one happens to be from an early MGB, but that doesn't matter for illustrative purposes. The curvature of the parts can be altered to make whatever profile is desired. What I wanted you to see is the way the parts are connected, and come apart for easy storage. This particular design is also nice in that it attaches at only 1 point on each side: Just aft of the door.

[Vman7]

Hey Vman7,

I did some digging on the internet and found a good representation of a top frame:

http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/MGBTops/images/454-500_490-tt.jpg

This one happens to be from an early MGB, but that doesn't matter for illustrative purposes. The curvature of the parts can be altered to make whatever profile is desired. What I wanted you to see is the way the parts are connected, and come apart for easy storage. This particular design is also nice in that it attaches at only 1 point on each side: Just aft of the door.

Thanks Xusia, that's pretty cool! That sure gives some food for thought. I never even thought about going to Moss' site, I love going there to check out Austin Healey stuff, the mini site is pretty cool too.

[FFR-ADV]

Hi David,

The attached video gives a goal for ease of Soft Targa Top installation:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihtkv8zGi_Y

The frame is really simple:

13638

Cheers!

[07FIREBLADE]

^^^ that was amazing. That's a wrap, cut time to go to production fast easy simple...

[Vman7]

Hi David,

The attached video gives a goal for ease of Soft Targa Top installation:

The frame is really simple:

13638

Cheers!

Steve, that's kind of what I am thinking with the 2 crossbars and the outside frame, light but strong. Now just picture hard side pieces that go all the way back and down in back with a soft top like the Lotus Elise. see post #10 for rendering of "Quick Top"

I'll have to draw something up showing how the "Quick Top" and soft Top all goes together and how they attach to everything.

David

[FFR-ADV]

Hi David,

My personal favorite is still your first post with a soft Targa:

13639

The two side bars likely clamp the fabric with a bolt rope (small rope sewn into hem slid into a slot). The bars could be a custom aluminum extrusion (maybe FFR could work a deal with a small extrusion house for advertising bragging rights in exchange for reduced non-recurring costs) used on both sides (just machined at ends different for left/right) if they are straight. If they are not straight, then they could be molded fiberglass which FFR could do in-house. With the first bar held in place the second bar tensions the fabric across the center bows. The side bars drop into molded slots and latched down.

Looking forward to seeing what you do with the "Quick Top"

Steve

[FFR-ADV]

Hi David,

This thought woke me from my sleep! How about a three piece Targa Soft Top? The central structural bar mounts to the body and roll bar and is shown body colored in the first edit. The soft quick remove Targa Top remains like my edit last evening. However a trat convertible fabric is stretched over the Targa Bar (shown body color) and from the rear would have a rounded U shape cutout with the original seat humps retained. The inner fiberglass Targa Bar has a scoop shape which catches the air and guides it to the TMIC.

13641

If the Targa bar is colored black (maybe even black fiberglass with CF weave?) is would look like this:

13642

Cheers!

Steve

[FFR-ADV]

Hi David,

Of course Factory Five could as easily (maybe easier even) make two body colored panels (to make the Targa Bar and layered Air Intake) and outsource the Soft Targa Top version from post 55. The Targa panel could also be provided as a single or two piece body colored panel(s). This can probably be done for less cost than a soft top, but with greater profit since it will bring higher value to many people and keep the majority of the value added in house. The Targa panel could also be provided as a single or two piece body colored panel(s).

13644

Steve

[WasAWrx]

Hi David,

The attached video gives a goal for ease of Soft Targa Top installation:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihtkv8zGi_Y

The frame is really simple:

13638

Cheers!

That's exactly what I imagined/wanted. The hard sides would be cool too, might give it a cleaner profile.

[Xusia]

From a weatherization standpoint, it seems to me it would be better to have the solid pieces mounted to the windshield and roll bar. This would help ensure a good weatherization seal. It's difficult to get a good seal on windows when the door lacks a window frame, so a solid piece there is not necessary - and a good seal along the top edge of the windshield (where all the water is hitting directly when driving) is more important than along the windows where the lack of a solid seal can be dealt with using a water channel.

[rjh2pd]

There could be a lip on the to of the windshield that the to would slide under with rubber seals on both sides.

[flynntuna]

Some of the other you-tube videos show other top styles more like Vman discribed.

[miznitic]

If they were to make a coupe, I would definitely be on board. Especially so if it had functioning roll-up/down windows.

[drothe]

I've been looking at the 818 for some time now, but the only thing that is missing is a hardtop version. Just joined in order to give a thumbs up to the OP image - fantastic!

Personally, I could care less about removability - fixed in place with no leaks and no extra attachment hardware would be wonderful (sorry - don't mean to hijack thread. I'd take a hard removable top if nothing else). I understand that roll up windows is a headache (been looking at the "Hardtop?" (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8157-Hard-top&highlight=coupe)thread), but as somebody posted there, FFR has done it before. Pretty please! :D

[flynntuna]

The studio photos of the 818S are up at the FFR site.

[Vman7]

Sorry I haven't got back to this as of late, that time of year ....lol, I will try and get back on it soon as possible.

David

[timmy318]

Sorry I haven't got back to this as of late, that time of year ....lol, I will try and get back on it soon as possible.

David

And I thought this thread was dead.... Shame on me!!!!

[flytosail]

David, since you seem quite familier with the car, your thoughts on a front license plate location and mounting for states like mine. i.e. NH

States like mine:


Alaska
California
Colorado
Connecticut
District of Columbia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Iowa
Maine
Maryland
Minnesota
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
North Dakota
Ohio
Oregon
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington
Wisconsin
Wyoming

[FFR-ADV]

If the Targa bar is colored black (maybe even black fiberglass with CF weave?) is would look like this:

13642


Hi David,

I found an example of an alternative simple quick Bimini ( Just in case/ Get me home top) that gives longer sweeping lines:

13944 13945

These could be made really inexpensively,

Still prefer your pure VMAN7 Vantage influenced true Targa design (hard and soft options)!

Happy Holidays!

Steve

[flynntuna]

+1 This is exactly what I invisioned. Its a lot like the Porsche spyder top. If the targa never comes to pass, I could live with this, but a targa would still be my first choice.

[timmy318]

+1 This is exactly what I invisioned. Its a lot like the Porsche spyder top. If the targa never comes to pass, I could live with this, but a targa would still be my first choice.

ditto

[wleehendrick]

ditto

x3... living in San Diego, this is all I really need/want for a top!

[BS]

The more I look at the pictures of the different variations of tops, I still think the best pic is the first one in this thread. If the panels above the cockpit are removable, they would be easy to make into a T-top configuration.

Now, if we can just get roll up windows, this is a really done deal. Are the doors going to be a two piece affair with an outer and inner shell so we can figure out how to install roll up windows on our own if it comes to that?

Bob

[rjh2pd]

You could always do zip up windows like in some jeeps. You could also have a window with a lip on the inside the you grab to pull up - push down so that you don't have to have anything other than rails in the door.