My trip to factory five.

[michael everson]

I spent a good hour today at Factory Five on my way home from the paint shop. Had a great talk with Dave.
Spent a lot of time looking over the 3 818s that just rolled off the truck from Sema.
If you have the chance, you have to see these cars in person. The pictures don't do them justice. The S version looks to be very roomy inside. Much bigger than the Roadster. It is. Beautiful car, with great lines. Hard to believe that it's just the prototype. All the people that worked on this car did an awesome job.
For the estimated 15,000.00 build cost, nothing compares.
The 818 bare chassis was a site to see. Very simple design, yet looks very capable of super car performance. I took a hard look at wether a longer 6 cylinder engine would fit. I don't see it happening without a lot of work. The car is definitely designed around the 4. I honestly can't wait to get my hands on one.

This car is going to be a huge step forward for Factory Five. With this kit, the manufacturing changes, computer aided design and knowledgeable employees the sky's the limit. I will not post any specific chassis photos unless it's ok with Dave.
Mike

[Kalstar]

I spent a good hour today at Factory Five on my way home from the paint shop. Had a great talk with Dave.
Spent a lot of time looking over the 3 818s that just rolled off the truck from Sema.
If you have the chance, you have to see these cars in person. The pictures don't do them justice. The S version looks to be very roomy inside. Much bigger than the Roadster. It is. Beautiful car, with great lines. Hard to believe that it's just the prototype. All the people that worked on this car did an awesome job.
For the estimated 15,000.00 build cost, nothing compares.
The 818 bare chassis was a site to see. Very simple design, yet looks very capable of super car performance. I took a hard look at wether a longer 6 cylinder engine would fit. I don't see it happening without a lot of work. The car is definitely designed around the 4. I honestly can't wait to get my hands on one.

This car is going to be a huge step forward for Factory Five. With this kit, the manufacturing changes, computer aided design and knowledgeable employees the sky's the limit. I will not post any specific chassis photos unless it's ok with Dave.
Mike

But the real question.....will it be hard to take a saw to your DD Wrx? And agreed 10000% better in person.

[michael everson]

Not at all. Although I gotta admit, i really like driving it. I'm kinda glad I bought the wagon and not the sedan. I might not want to part with the sedan.
Mike

[Rasmus]

I will not post any specific chassis photos unless it's ok with Dave.

If they let you in to their Factory, with your own camera, and you took photos... they're your photos. Legally, your copyrighted work. FFR has no ownership or rights claim to the photos you took with your camera. There's no industrial espionage here. FFR displayed the prototypes at THE largest car show in the world for the world's auto press to photograph any way they wanted.

Host those *****es and share. Need a host? www.imgur.com is free and easy.

[Turboguy]

The 818 bare chassis was a site to see. Very simple design, yet looks very capable of super car performance. I took a hard look at wether a longer 6 cylinder engine would fit. I don't see it happening without a lot of work. The car is definitely designed around the 4.

:( :( :( not happy to hear this at all, but am very, VERY pleased that such an experienced FFR builder took the time to help size the situation up for us. Thanks, Mike.

[WIS89]

Mike-

Thanks for the update! The factory is terrific isn't it? Plus, the people are just plain awesome and make for a terrific experience. Dave has managed to put together one hell of a team, with some awesome products that I can't wait to get my hands on!!!

Keep on rocking hard Factory Five!!

Regards,

Steve

[Erik W. Treves]

I am going up next week...I can't wait!

[Dave Smith]

If they let you in to their Factory, with your own camera, and you took photos... they're your photos. Legally, your copyrighted work. FFR has no ownership or rights claim to the photos you took with your camera. There's no industrial espionage here. FFR displayed the prototypes at THE largest car show in the world for the world's auto press to photograph any way they wanted.

Host those *****es and share. Need a host? www.imgur.com is free and easy.

Mike, I had a great time talking to you about the 818 and you can post any pics you want.

Rasmus, I wouldn't have shown Mike the cars if I wasn't stoked about them. I 'spose if I didn't want him to post a picture I'd simply ask him not to. Shelby taught me how to exploit legalities and I'm not playing that game ever. I just think Mike was being cool and considerate because I was very candid with him about production plans, details like CAD work done, mold status and more.

Erik! I am STOKED that you'll be out next Thursday. The East Coast Car Warriors car that you built is here as well as your buddy Tony who is making a HUGE difference and really adding a TON of talent to the FFR Team. Can't wait to see you. Of course, after thinking about what Rasmus said, we have to execute a notarized non-disclosure agreement, a mutual confidentiality and non-compete agreement, and we'll have to do a comprehensive background check on you... and after you are fully vetted, passed thru security and sworn-in... then we can go forward with a liability release so that when you see the 818 and 818S, IF your hair bursts into flames, or you die as a result of looking at the car, we are not held responsible. :)

[Mechie3]

Dave lives!

[Racebrewer]

Cool ! ! !

When do we start filling out the order forms? My $100 deposit is in and I'm ready to go down to FFR and sit down with someone.

Thanks,
John

[Kwizatz-haderah]

I'll be up next week too! I've been dying to see the cars in person. I'm bringing my uncle too. He was jealous of my last build and is dying to also build an 818 but he wants to see it in person before pulling the trigger.

Mirko

Actually, Dave, are you guys going to be open on Monday? I'm a principal and I'd also love to see my students build one of these.

[mikey likes it!]

While visiting my daughter at Quinnipiac University in New Haven, Ct. I took a drive with my 13 year old son to Factory Five. 120 miles later we arrived, Excellent !!!! It was worth the drive in a heartbeat.... When I opened the door, we were met by Dave, and moments later were on a personally guided tour of the facility. I felt the same as the day I received my kit.... like a little kid !! Met the, can't remember names, the man who welded my chassis, assembled my car for shipment, saw the fiberglass shop, smelled great and the new laser cutting machine, and basically the clean side and the working dirty side of the facility. Every employee was more than happy to talk and explain their job. And then... we viewed the cars from SEMA that had just been unloaded from the semi. One thing is for sure, Dave, has some nice cars with his name on the pink slip. His GTM, 33, big block Roadster and Mk4 are very nice... his type 65, really nice. My son was taking pictures along the entire way and was told by Dave to take all the pictures he wanted. And then we went outside to view the 818. The race model and the street model as well as the go kart. Time was extremely well spent !!!! Dave went out of his way to explain Factory Five goings on. So, thanks Dave !! My son and I felt the visit was awesome. The only thing I didn't get to see was Dave's Bus..... Even Jason recommended a place to get some "chowda" that turned out to be outstanding !!! You need to visit Tow Road in Wareham !!!

[mikey likes it!]

Mike, sorry I missed you....

[Benji]

I honestly don't see why a the newer H6's (EZ30/36) wouldn't fit, the EG33 I can understand...

[michael everson]

Next time Mike. I left there at 10:30 what time did you arrive?

[michael everson]

Ok here are a few pictures I took. Please forgive the quality. These were taken with my Iphone.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/601.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/600.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/599.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/598.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/597.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/596.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/595.jpg

[michael everson]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/594.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/593.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/592.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/591.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/590.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/589.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/588.jpg

[michael everson]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/587.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/586.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/585.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/584.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s140/michaeleverson/2002%20subaru/583.jpg

[jimgood]

Mike, those are the most helpful chassis pictures I've seen yet. Really shows how some things are going to go together. Thanks.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Mike, those are the most helpful chassis pictures I've seen yet. Really shows how some things are going to go together. Thanks.

Agreed X 100! Whole different perspective through a builder's eye. I'm seriously starting to think about hopping on a plane for a visit soon.

Jeff

[wallace18]

Thanks for the great chassis photos. Looks great.

[michael everson]

One thing these pictures helped me with, is what donor parts to spend time restoring and what can be used as is because it will never be seen. I already bought a set of aluminum front control arms. Apparently the older WRXs did not come with them. I plan to polish them up just like the ones on this chassis.
Mike

[Mechie3]

One picture concerns me a little, the top down view of the pedals. Mi can't remember what the pedal frame looks like and the tubular piece looks like the front under dash beam....that I junked! Time to check my parts.

[riptide motorsport]

Great picts. Thanks!

[Dave Smith]

FYI The 818 chassis is going to Dino Petrocellis' photo studio for hig res pix. Should help see parts better.

Mike H. GREAT seeing you man and what a compliment to be part of your build log! Especially to be in the company of Dan Gurney and Phil Remmington! My goal remains the same as when you bought your Mk3.1 and that is to build the best cars we can, build a great community, (and personally have a better garage than Tony Stark)...

If you guys want to see the 818, we will have the cars here for another week or so. The 818R is heading out for 3 months of track testing down south as we've put together a team of guys to test it independently from the design team. The red street car is going to the photo studio this coming Tuesday, then it will be undergoing ALOT of testing and we are replacing all the panels with production panels. One of the things I bragged to Mike E. about was that the panels on the 818R and 818S are PROTOTYPE panels yet they are sooo damn good. 10 years ago I would've been on cloud nine to have such tolerances, now they are not good enough as Jim and John (Master shaper) are making small changes to all the panels for even better fitment (remeber no-bodywork means they really gotta be perfect). It was cool hearing feedback from builders like Mike and some other guys at SEMA.

I gotta go downstairs and get the crew going.

[Dave Smith]

Also, I should have updates to anyone on the pre-order list early this coming week.

[Mechie3]

Can't wait!

[RM1SepEx]

FYI The 818 chassis is going to Dino Petrocellis' photo studio for hig res pix. Should help see parts better.

Mike H. GREAT seeing you man and what a compliment to be part of your build log! Especially to be in the company of Dan Gurney and Phil Remmington! My goal remains the same as when you bought your Mk3.1 and that is to build the best cars we can, build a great community, (and personally have a better garage than Tony Stark)...

If you guys want to see the 818, we will have the cars here for another week or so. The 818R is heading out for 3 months of track testing down south as we've put together a team of guys to test it independently from the design team. The red street car is going to the photo studio this coming Tuesday, then it will be undergoing ALOT of testing and we are replacing all the panels with production panels. One of the things I bragged to Mike E. about was that the panels on the 818R and 818S are PROTOTYPE panels yet they are sooo damn good. 10 years ago I would've been on cloud nine to have such tolerances, now they are not good enough as Jim and John (Master shaper) are making small changes to all the panels for even better fitment (remeber no-bodywork means they really gotta be perfect). It was cool hearing feedback from builders like Mike and some other guys at SEMA.

I gotta go downstairs and get the crew going.

So Dave, will late this coming week work to see the street version in the flesh at Factory 5? perhaps Wednesday or Thursday? Tuesday it's out for photos... are you open Monday?

Thanks, looks great, can't wait to see it, receive my kit and get it done!

Dan

[Etos]

Very insightful pictures of the chasis.

Some questions do arise:

1. The rear lateral links. Is the forward link a polished aluminum piece from the STi or one provided by FFR?

2. Now that the 818S is complete and SEMA is over- when should we expect some weight measurements?

[Mechie3]

The polished link came on the 05 to 07 wrx. Rear link was steel. STI had aluminum front and rear. Only difference is the steel one has a end link bracket for a swaybar where the front aluminum is just a tube. As there is no swaybar I bought another set of front aluminium links to use in place of the steel.

[PhyrraM]

One picture concerns me a little, the top down view of the pedals. Mi can't remember what the pedal frame looks like and the tubular piece looks like the front under dash beam....that I junked! Time to check my parts.

That is not the dash cross beam, it's just the pedal assembly.

[skullandbones]

Well, I enjoyed my vicarious "trip to FFR" today. Thanks, Mike, for all the great angle shots so I didn't have to crane my neck and head into all those difficult to reach places. But seriously, I'm putting this spot on my next trip to the New England area. Don't get a chance to come up there as much since we moved to AZ but one day soon........ Thanks again, WEK.

[Etos]

The polished link came on the 05 to 07 wrx. Rear link was steel. STI had aluminum front and rear. Only difference is the steel one has a end link bracket for a swaybar where the front aluminum is just a tube. As there is no swaybar I bought another set of front aluminium links to use in place of the steel.

I am fairly certain no WRX came with aluminum rear lateral links. Only STis came with aluminum rear links. Could be mistaken but fairly sure that's the case.

[RM1SepEx]

I am fairly certain no WRX came with aluminum rear lateral links. Only STis came with aluminum rear links. Could be mistaken but fairly sure that's the case.

the two front links on the rear of my 05 WRX are aluminum too... The rears are steel because they include the sway bar bracket.

I replaced my rear lower links with steel adjustable links

I have two aluminum ones for sale on EBay

[mrvwcastner]

I keep reading about how the front end is too this not enough that. I think it is excellent. Not OTT and not too subtle. This angle of the front end on the S shows how nice the lines are in my opinion. Everything on this car is so well executed at a minute detail level. I'm really looking forward to building my first kit car and taking a really long road trip in it. The final selling point for me was NO BODY WORK! I have done it from ground up on many cars and this is worth at least a third of the price alone.

[metalmaker12]

Dave, are you guys open Monday, I would like to come down to see the 818s/r/frame
I am a pre-order guy and want to see it in person. Thank you for such a great car
Chris from R.I

[Mechie3]

Anybody notice the springs say "Factory Five"? Didn't see it earlier when I was looking on my phone.

[jdek]

I'm curious about how long those front lower ball joints are going to last after seeing these pictures. Originally they were designed to be "follower" joints because the vehicles weight was transferred through the struts. Now it looks like they're load bearing, and oriented with the pin up(pulled). I'm sure the guys at F5 are completely aware of this and have taken it into account. These may end up being something to monitor pretty regularly. Just my thoughts as a technician.

http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/Article/694/strut_your_knowledge_of_ball_joints.aspx
scroll down to the heading; TYPES OF BALL JOINTS and you'll see what I mean about follower construction vs loaded.

[Movieman]

If they let you in to their Factory, with your own camera, and you took photos... they're your photos. Legally, your copyrighted work. FFR has no ownership or rights claim to the photos you took with your camera. There's no industrial espionage here. FFR displayed the prototypes at THE largest car show in the world for the world's auto press to photograph any way they wanted.

Host those *****es and share. Need a host? www.imgur.com is free and easy.

You're 100% correct but what I read in michael everson's comment had more to do with honor and trust than legality.

[BipDBo]

...The 818R is heading out for 3 months of track testing down south as we've put together a team of guys to test it independently from the design team. The red street car is going to the photo studio this coming Tuesday, then it will be undergoing ALOT of testing and we are replacing all the panels with production panels. ...

I hope that you'll post some video!

[rori]

I'm curious about how long those front lower ball joints are going to last after seeing these pictures. Originally they were designed to be "follower" joints because the vehicles weight was transferred through the struts. Now it looks like they're load bearing, and oriented with the pin up(pulled). I'm sure the guys at F5 are completely aware of this and have taken it into account. These may end up being something to monitor pretty regularly. Just my thoughts as a technician.

http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/Article/694/strut_your_knowledge_of_ball_joints.aspx
scroll down to the heading; TYPES OF BALL JOINTS and you'll see what I mean about follower construction vs loaded.

I've been wondering about this also. The ball joints went from carrying virtually no load to carrying all of the load. Hopefully 3 months of track testing will reveal any potential issues.

[Mechie3]

Will the ball joints be a problem? From what I can see, the main difference is the follower type has the metal ball fully supported top and bottom while the loaded joint seems to be mostly supported on one side (the side opposite the threads on the stud).

FFR might just have you swap them out for a different ones. They did mention they did the same thing on the cobra for years and had no issues.

[metalmaker12]

I asked them today in person of the ball joint concern, None of them seemed to think it was going to be an issue. I second that, and think we are getting worried about something that will not be an issue. The car is more than half the weight of a wrx. Enough said on that, testing and tear downs will show any issues, were in very good hands. I had a half hour tour and got to get up close to the 818r and third frame, the s was already loaded up to go get pics. Heres some loser in the 818 frame lol and a close up of were the axle would go and the part they put in its place1337013371

[wallace18]

How tall is that fellow in the frame?

[jdek]

I hope I didn't come off as being worried! I have complete faith in the team and products from FFR. My Dad built a MK1 in '97 and the quality was excellent! They've come a long way since then.
I 100% plan on building multiple FFRs myself in the future. Just thinking we should be conscious of the ball joints from a maintenance perspective.. not being critical.

MetalMaker; Did you try out the steering wheel? How did it feel?

[metalmaker12]

I am 5,9 and it had good room, it sits low like a gtm and the wheel position and feel were good and solid.
No one sounded critical just stated were all good and we should start learning how to stop our heads from blowing up. it is a cool ride. The new race gtms were there and they were crazy cool and sounded awesome.

[metalmaker12]

The fit of the 818r body was very good in person and it was way more impressive in person. I will be going again for a couple hours to get more high res pics and more Dave inspired info. The 818s will be coming back thurs or Friday, but than it will be torn apart and revised etc etc etc, alot of cool stuff to come

[Mechie3]

Thanks for the updates metal maker. Some of the best updates since the unveil at sema.

[Xusia]

Awesome, thanks! When you return, would you consider taking that list of questions put together for SEMA that (as far as I know) never got answered and asking those?? Pretty please??? :)

[RM1SepEx]

I'm planning on going down Thursday... I'm hoping that the 818S is back... If it isn't it is hard to justify 6 hours of driving...

[longislandwrx]

also, i should have updates to anyone on the pre-order list early this coming week.


thats what i'm talking about!

[RM1SepEx]

Awesome, thanks! When you return, would you consider taking that list of questions put together for SEMA that (as far as I know) never got answered and asking those?? Pretty please??? :)

refresh the questions and I'll make an effort on thursday

[Xusia]

I searched and dug around and here is the list as far as I can find it. I've weeded out questions already answered, and some questions are paraphrased for brevity:


What is the plan for windshield wipers? Will there be a wind shield wiper cowl to hide wipers or was it decided for the beginning to expose them?
The exhaust vents on the hood are smaller than the opening in front (for the radiator). Are those hood vents large enough to accommodate the airflow? If not, where will excess airflow go?
Thoughts on using the airbags from the donor? It's generally thought to be a bad idea, but what's the reality?
There's a some concern about the transmission sticking out the back with no visible protection. Is a protective cage similar to the GTM planned?
General dimensions: Width, height (ground to top of windscreen, roll bar, and door), track (I assume the same as an Impreza, but ?), seat cusion to top of roll bar.
Does the gas tank go between the seats and the frame, or between the frame and the engine?
Have they made a definitive decision on whether or not the 818S will launch with a soft top or hard top option or both?
Will roll up windows be able to be retrofitted to the existing 818S? If yes, will that require new doors, window frame, or ?? If no, will roll up windows be a coupe only option?
Is a targa a possible option for the coupe or not?
What impact protection is planned for the door of the 818S?
Are there any plans for storage (i.e. trunk)? Front? Rear? Both?
Will there be different roll bar options eventually? (I think most people assume only the one option at launch)
Will a "complete kit" option be offered at launch? In the future? Any ideas on price (ball park)?


And a personal request: Can we get a 360 video to better see the shape? For those of us that can't make the trip in person!...

[Mechie3]

One more general question: What parts from the 818S and 818R are mutually exclusive without extensive end user modification (ie: Door cards, carpet, etc)

[metalmaker12]

Good questions, I will save them and if your able to wait a month, I will be going again and with my dad and not the fam so I will have more guy talk time.

[Xusia]

I can wait. Prob get more complete answers in a month anyway. :)

[Xusia]

But you can still get the video, right? I think Dave said they'd be gone in a month...

[RM1SepEx]

I searched and dug around and here is the list as far as I can find it. I've weeded out questions already answered, and some questions are paraphrased for brevity:


What is the plan for windshield wipers? Will there be a wind shield wiper cowl to hide wipers or was it decided for the beginning to expose them?
The exhaust vents on the hood are smaller than the opening in front (for the radiator). Are those hood vents large enough to accommodate the airflow? If not, where will excess airflow go?
Thoughts on using the airbags from the donor? It's generally thought to be a bad idea, but what's the reality?
There's a some concern about the transmission sticking out the back with no visible protection. Is a protective cage similar to the GTM planned?
General dimensions: Width, height (ground to top of windscreen, roll bar, and door), track (I assume the same as an Impreza, but ?), seat cusion to top of roll bar.
Does the gas tank go between the seats and the frame, or between the frame and the engine?
Have they made a definitive decision on whether or not the 818S will launch with a soft top or hard top option or both?
Will roll up windows be able to be retrofitted to the existing 818S? If yes, will that require new doors, window frame, or ?? If no, will roll up windows be a coupe only option?
Is a targa a possible option for the coupe or not?
What impact protection is planned for the door of the 818S?
Are there any plans for storage (i.e. trunk)? Front? Rear? Both?
Will there be different roll bar options eventually? (I think most people assume only the one option at launch)
Will a "complete kit" option be offered at launch? In the future? Any ideas on price (ball park)?


And a personal request: Can we get a 360 video to better see the shape? For those of us that can't make the trip in person!...

I'll see what I can do and will attempt a 360 video. Don't know what versions will be there...

Some of your questions I may not get around to asking... My discussions with Dave tend to meander a bit, I will print out your list.

Some of your questions are not really answerable:

Airbags in a car not designed for them... sorry I won't waste my limited time with Dave on the subject. Targa possible with coupe, sure, in the plan who knows, that is a subject again that may be too early in the process. Like many I would like to see a targa option and being able to upgrade my early roadster to be one... that would be GREAT... that's the discussion I'll have vs the question.

What do you mean by complete kit?

I'll bring a tape measure...

He has already stated that a soft top option will be available at launch

being selfish my build questions will come first! :-)

[metalmaker12]

Lol rm1sepex, tape measure lol,
Yea the soft top will be at launch, a targa may come down the road, like a year or two out, most likely a removable hard top. There maybe some sort of impact protection for the tranny, windows may be an option down the road. Gas tank is behind the seats before the engine bay. The rest of the questions I did not ask .

[Jeff F]

I searched and dug around and here is the list as far as I can find it. I've weeded out questions already answered, and some questions are paraphrased for brevity:


What is the plan for windshield wipers? Will there be a wind shield wiper cowl to hide wipers or was it decided for the beginning to expose them?
The exhaust vents on the hood are smaller than the opening in front (for the radiator). Are those hood vents large enough to accommodate the airflow? If not, where will excess airflow go?
Thoughts on using the airbags from the donor? It's generally thought to be a bad idea, but what's the reality?
There's a some concern about the transmission sticking out the back with no visible protection. Is a protective cage similar to the GTM planned?
General dimensions: Width, height (ground to top of windscreen, roll bar, and door), track (I assume the same as an Impreza, but ?), seat cusion to top of roll bar.
Does the gas tank go between the seats and the frame, or between the frame and the engine?
Have they made a definitive decision on whether or not the 818S will launch with a soft top or hard top option or both?
Will roll up windows be able to be retrofitted to the existing 818S? If yes, will that require new doors, window frame, or ?? If no, will roll up windows be a coupe only option?
Is a targa a possible option for the coupe or not?
What impact protection is planned for the door of the 818S?
Are there any plans for storage (i.e. trunk)? Front? Rear? Both?
Will there be different roll bar options eventually? (I think most people assume only the one option at launch)
Will a "complete kit" option be offered at launch? In the future? Any ideas on price (ball park)?


And a personal request: Can we get a 360 video to better see the shape? For those of us that can't make the trip in person!...

6) The gas tank is between the seats and firewall.
7) Jim said the soft top will be available and be costly at around $3000 to do right with soft windows that don't leak.

Personal request: I took a great 360 video of the 818R at SEMA but no clue how to host it. If someone can help with that, I will post it with a link!

Jeff

[Mechie3]

youtube or vimeo for posting video. Photobucket will do it to, but last time I did that they killed the quailty.

[RM1SepEx]

Is the 818R on youtube OK for your request???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgPKz4Ajzs4&feature=youtu.be

[Mechie3]

Something I thought of last night:

Can the oem steering wheel, clock spring, and turn signal stalks be put into the 818R (without lots of modifying by the end user)?

[RM1SepEx]

Something I thought of last night:

Can the oem steering wheel, clock spring, and turn signal stalks be put into the 818R (without lots of modifying by the end user)?

why wouldn't they be able to be used? You are using the stock rack, column etc...

[FFinisher]

why wouldn't they be able to be used? You are using the stock rack, column etc...


Answer: Yes.

[PhyrraM]

From the looks of the 818R frame, FFR has chosen to use it's own simple column and have ommited the drilled/tapped plates used on the 818S to mount the factory column.

The question is...what will change in the next 6 months or so?

[Mechie3]

why wouldn't they be able to be used? You are using the stock rack, column etc...

The 818S does, the R doesn't (as of now).


From the looks of the 818R frame, FFR has chosen to use it's own simple column and have ommited the drilled/tapped plates used on the 818S to mount the factory column.

The question is...what will change in the next 6 months or so?

Yup.

[RM1SepEx]

Got ya... I'll put that on te agenda for sure...

[xristianos]

Could you add 1 more question. Will it be available in a right hand drive configuration? If not available initially, some sort of timeframe..

Thanks in advance from the people across the pond :)

[Erik W. Treves]

Well, I just got back to my dad's house after spending the entire morning over at Factory Five with Dave Smith. I sat in the race version and the street version. I also took a really hard look at the rolling chassis. I was already excited about building one before I even saw it for real. I can tell you after today I am not sure how I am going to contain myself until the finished version is released and I get my kit. It really does look EVEN BETTER in person. They drove the street car in from the trailer and into the shop...it looks so cool moving under its own power and sounds amazing! Dave asked if I wanted to go with the rest of tour of the plant with him and the other guys...ha...no way...I got to spend at least 45 minutes with the car and got to speak with Jim and absorbed as much info as my brain could hold. What a great day...i got so excited now I am tired and need a nap... let the fun begin! Thanks DAVE!!

[Mechie3]

got to spend at least 45 minutes with the car and got to speak with Jim and absorbed as much info as my brain could hold. What a great day.

Awesome!


I am tired and need a nap..

Such a tease!

[wallace18]

I envy you being able to visit the cars and factory. Thanks for letting us visit through your eyes.

[RM1SepEx]

13441I was there today too with Eric...
BTW great to meet you, Eric has serious build skills!!!

The 818 variants shown are AWESOME... I can only imagine the buzz that they caused at SEMA

We spent 2 1/2 hrs talking with Dave around the plant and with the three 818s that were there. Amazingly lucky to see the 818S because that is no longer possible. Their team was tearing it apart while we were talking to Dave. Their plans are to scrap that chassis, consider it a development mule.

The 818R is soon on its way down south. What sounds like a great team including GRM, Koni etc... will be thrashing it to further develop the car... warm weather down south will accelerate the projects timeline

Next the 818S that was shown was/is a development mule. It shows what the 818S will look like but many small details may change due to the requirements of such things as the molding process etc... Dave has promised to provide a finished car unlike the kit car world has ever seen. We need to trust them on that re the "questions" First this is an ongoing project and many of those "details" are being worked on. We need to let them do that work without interruption. Dave indicated that even sending the 818S out for photos cost them development days and Jim and his crew need ALL the time available.

1.What is the plan for windshield wipers? Will there be a wind shield wiper cowl to hide wipers or was it decided for the beginning to expose them?

A. working on it, new hood was leaning vs. a table... didn't try to peek or photograph... Either may result but it will look good!

2.The exhaust vents on the hood are smaller than the opening in front (for the radiator). Are those hood vents large enough to accommodate the airflow? If not, where will excess airflow go?

A. not an issue finished car won't overheat, just like all their other cars to date

3.Thoughts on using the airbags from the donor? It's generally thought to be a bad idea, but what's the reality?

A. from me, I would not approach Dave on this one.... Seriously... you are on your own, can you say liability... ;-)

4.There's a some concern about the transmission sticking out the back with no visible protection. Is a protective cage similar to the GTM planned?

A. no

5.General dimensions: Width, height (ground to top of windscreen, roll bar, and door), track (I assume the same as an Impreza, but ?), seat cusion to top of roll bar.

A. Sorry, I forgot my tape, and my camera broke. I may have some photos in the next few days from a friend that came with me. Scale it from a straight on view if you want some general dimensions... to me it looks about the size of a MR2 Spyder that is a bit wider... Dave did mention that the wheelbase may now be 97" but he didn't sound sure


6.Does the gas tank go between the seats and the frame, or between the frame and the engine?

A. Seats and frame, it looks very clean, nice low mass

7.Have they made a definitive decision on whether or not the 818S will launch with a soft top or hard top option or both?

A Soft top but like everything else development work needs to be done. They would like less costly alternative vs. the top like on the 33 Hot Rod

8.Will roll up windows be able to be retrofitted to the existing 818S? If yes, will that require new doors, window frame, or ?? If no, will roll up windows be a coupe only option?

A too early to tell see generic comment below

9.Is a targa a possible option for the coupe or not?

A. all options are possible see generic comment below

10.What impact protection is planned for the door of the 818S?

A doors will be similar to all other Factory 5 kits

11.Are there any plans for storage (i.e. trunk)? Front? Rear? Both?

A. yes see generic comment below

12.Will there be different roll bar options eventually? (I think most people assume only the one option at launch)

A. oops forgot to ask... roll hoop as shown could change slightly just like everything else. see generic comment below

13.Will a "complete kit" option be offered at launch? In the future? Any ideas on price (ball park)?

A. I don't understand the question and asked previously for clairification. Bottom line, one complete Impreza 02-07 + kit + elbow grease and hefty amounts of degreaser = car that's what they promised

General comment: I find it amazing that I'm yet again in the exact position that I was in one year ago... I visited with a specific set of questions concerning the models, people looking for more photos etc... I posted the photo below with Dave partially shielding the 818 models:

Today I'm in a similar position, but I don't have a cute photo to make light of the situation...

Many of us have seen the 818s in person, they have made an AMAZING impression on the public and other automobile fanatics like myself. I was so grateful that the one day I could arrange going down to Factory 5 I was able to watch and hear the 818S come into the shop off the truck. Naturally my camera broke, however my friend Mike took some photos that I can share later. Many photos are available from SEMA and Dave just had the high resolution studio photos done this week.

Those photos are of a car that is "almost" what will be for sale. They are continuing to work on the plastic color body panels and will make sure that they are 100% before they are implemented. The "details" concerning seat belts, heater, wipers, etc... are being worked on diligently by a group of very dedicated and inspired people who live and love automobiles and what they do. Dave has committed the most successful kit/component car company in history to do this and make it awesome. body lines may change slightly, positions change a bit etc to make the car the best it can be. Where right now it is what you might get from many kit car companies Dave has design goals and a vision for a World car (left and right drive, stop asking please) that will be amazingly easy to build. With these body panels it will be a simple align and bolt affair. The interior aluminum panels are laser cut in house now and a ton of drill and pop and cleko work gives you an awesome, stiff frame.

Dave's biggest issue: the kit MUST must be right out of the box as the demand would cause a logistical support nightmare to release the kit before it is ready. The panels must be PERFECT to support no-paint and that is an essential goal.

We need to back off on comments and critiques and provide some insight into what we need/desire so they can factor that feedback into their design & development process. For instance, it is helpful to know that although many want an S version we want to use a belt harness vs the factory 3 point belt. That doesn't mean we will get everything that we want/desire.

As pre order customers... (Eric was first on the list, I took my daily afternoon siesta and posted 7th... :-) ) I'm honored that Dave has committed to begin a comminication program with us to keep us up to date and provide a communication link back to them as well. We spent 2 1/2 hours discussing the 818 and going over changes to their mfg facilities and processes in support of this project.

Many showed both disregard and disrespect for this design and Jim in particular when it was first unveiled. You really need to see it in person and run your hands over some of the surfaces. It looks powerful and fast just sitting there! I'm impressed that their design has taken the foresight to provide body panel breaks that I can envision a coupe or targa retrofit replacing the engine cover only. I may even work up a targa cover for the roll bar and a soft top with vinyl windows to go with it on my own.

I'm chomping at the bit as much as anyone else. (My donor parts are done by next week after Quaife transaxle install is complete) but we must be patient and wait for Dave to follow his project plan and first get the design details done, fabricate mfg equipment and processes and slowly ramp up production to ensure that the car can be easily put together any where in the world.

I always walk away with two overpowering emotions from a Factory 5 visit, first AWE because they have build a great organization enabling building DREAM cars for so many people, second JEALOSY because Dave gets to play with what he loves and I wish that I could do the same.

An old saying is that if you love what you do you never have to go to work...

PS someone asked about the steering wheel/column... yes stock column/wheel into either R or S version

Smiling from ear to ear!

Dan

PPS Dave, my friend Mike was so impressed that now Mark and I can prod at him for a while... he really wants to do the a 65 Coupe now... after his 73 BMW 3.0 CSI coupe frame off is completed

[metalmaker12]

Well said my friend

[Kalstar]

Thank you for the well documented response.

[Mechie3]

Thanks for the good update. Does anyone know what the doors of their other kits look like.

[Erik W. Treves]

Dan, great to meet you too today. I have been trying to come up with a comment to post about all the back and forth posts/comments.... I will just X2 to your very well worded thought.

"We need to back off on comments and critiques and provide some insight into what we need/desire so they can factor that feedback into their design & development process. For instance, it is helpful to know that although many want an S version we want to use a belt harness vs the factory 3 point belt. That doesn't mean we will get everything that we want/desire."

and

"Many showed both disregard and disrespect for this design and Jim in particular when it was first unveiled. You really need to see it in person and run your hands over some of the surfaces. It looks powerful and fast just sitting there! I'm impressed that their design has taken the foresight to provide body panel breaks that I can envision a coupe or targa retrofit replacing the engine cover only."

very well said! great post!!

As far as being #1 in line, the list is quite "unofficial" ...it doesn't matter to me if I get the first kit and quite frankly if I am not in position to execute right away (though I should be) I will happily step aside and let somebody else be first. I am planning a 7 day build! So if I am first or 10th or whatever, no matter, I WILL own a 818 :D Better for everybody if we get these built and out there. My dad now even wants one...so now I may have to order 2 :D

[rjh2pd]

How tall is your dad?

[RM1SepEx]

I had a great time again today, even brought my wife and went to China Town for Dim Sum lunch...

Like Eric I can't wait but 7 days is waaaay faster than my plan, I'm figuring 3-4 weeks... :)

So when the pre-order's start getting updates, lets give them some helpful inputs on what we desire and how to make the car functionally better and understand that the mfg process is a huge step forward and some of the absolute estetics that we may want are probably on our own vs std from Factory 5 (you want a different nose, have at it!) I'm very impressed by the current fit and finish and Dave's indicated it isn't good enough and will be better!!!!

I'm focused on seat rails that get a stock seat lower, simple heating system with defroster, wipers, a harness vs stock belts etc... I'm convinced that the brake bias, power vs boosted, cooling capacity etc will be done by the development team without us questioning them about it all the time.

time for bed, have to get up early and roll my transaxle under my garage's electric winch, lift it up and place it in the back of my pickup so I can deliver it to the shop and get a Quaife installed. I'm thinking I need to do some better organization of my donor parts since they will be sitting in wait for another 7+ months based on a June / July date (keeping fingers crossed)

13442134501344913448134471344613445134441344313451

[wallace18]

Thanks guys for great info. I want to install a belt harness not the stock seat belts. Wipers would be nice as well as heater.

[Mechie3]

^^ Ditto

Wipers
5 of 6 point harness
Heater of some sort.

[flytosail]

13441I was there today too with Eric...
BTW great to meet you, Eric has serious build skills!!!


We spent 2 1/2 hrs talking with Dave around the plant and with the three 818s that were there. Amazingly lucky to see the 818S because that is no longer possible. Their team was tearing it apart while we were talking to Dave. Their plans are to scrap that chassis, consider it a development mule.


-ted

Dave, you may want to save the 818S for the large museum that will be dedicated for you some day.

[Xusia]

My $.02 is to have the OPTION of using the stock seat belts OR a harness. Those using it as a daily driver may not want or need a harness!

[Kwizatz-haderah]

Just saw the car today. The pictures do it no justice. The cars beautiful. I didn't like the front end from the pictures, but its amazing in person, the headlights too. Glad I pre-ordered!

[Etos]

My $.02 is to have the OPTION of using the stock seat belts OR a harness. Those using it as a daily driver may not want or need a harness!

This maybe difficult to use 3 point belts. I don't know what the other FFR cars use but to make a factory 3 point worth more then a ticket deterrent you need to have the airbag control module and sensors hooked up as well. Without them the seat belt will not detract and lock thus just let you go flying into the wheel and maybe even out the car.

[narkosys]

There is a very good discussion about how seat belts work on the 64k thread on the GTM forum on the 'other site'. Here is the link. (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/42-factory-five-gtm-forum/87917-need-tips-getting-seat-belts-work.html#post1702188)

tl:dr you DON'T need air bag control module or sensors to make the seat belts work.

hope this helps.

P

[wleehendrick]

This maybe difficult to use 3 point belts. I don't know what the other FFR cars use but to make a factory 3 point worth more then a ticket deterrent you need to have the airbag control module and sensors hooked up as well. Without them the seat belt will not detract and lock thus just let you go flying into the wheel and maybe even out the car.

Seat-belt retractors have mechanical lockups; weights that rotate out from centripetal acceleration that lock up with a fast tug. Pre-tensionors wouldn't work, obviously.

[Etos]

Well that's good to know. I'm not that familiar with seatbelts, just know that the belt retracts in any accident if the sensor goes off.

[jimbo999]

I have a quick and possibly dumb question.
Before I would build one of these great cars, what needs to be done to ensure that the finished car will be legal.

Examples are:
Going fenderless or cycle fenders on the 33.
Emissions regulations for a MK4 with a 302.
Registration of a MK4 as a 65 Ford, (or whatever).
Insurance.
And some other things I probably don't know about.

I am in Massachusetts.

I have helped build several Race Cars in the past (modified class for paved circle tracks) and have the skills necessary to build one of these FF cars for street use, but am 70 years old with relatively good health.

[305mouse]

There is a whole section for registration and emissions. Do a search under your state, I think there have a been a couple now that have gone through the registration process in Mass.