Dave Smith-Say it isn't so

[mrmustang]

The first 289 FIA built by FFR as a test bed :rolleyes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Roadster-/130799401019


Dave, say it isn't so and my trust in you has not been broken

I feel so soiled, used and abused...........Think I now need a slabside instead ;);););)


Yours In Fords,


Bill S.

[Silversmith]

Dave, I would like a true & direct answer as well! Is FFR going to offer a FIA/AC spec. racer/street version kit in the next year or not??? Post the truth Dave! You owe us that!

[timmy318]

Cool!

[Gumball]

Ummmm, that looks like a Mk1 or Mk2 that has a few FIA touches added. Way too many things are out of sync with that car to be called a FIA 289 replica. But, I'd love to hear Dave's take on the seller's assertions.

[couchflyer]

That is a gorgeous car that is in MN, but I am working in Long Island. Bet you its a blast to drive.

[riptide motorsport]

Is a damn nice car.

[Jeff Collins]

Where are da bunnies when you need them?

[rich grsc]

How many time this same ????? going to come around. I do believe Dave as answered it many times. Its no longer funny.

[skullandbones]

Ummmm, that looks like a Mk1 or Mk2 that has a few FIA touches added. Way too many things are out of sync with that car to be called a FIA 289 replica. But, I'd love to hear Dave's take on the seller's assertions.

You're right. Fender flares give it away big time. Seinfeld: Elaine says,"Fake, fake, fake,.........fake!"

WEK.

[tirod]

It's really not Dave's fault. Take a long look at the car linked, it's a great example of why he can't offer a true FIA. The general buying public doesn't get the details right, and doesn't really care. They want the visual similarity to have exclusivity, but all the glitz of the modern high horsepower.

MSD? Edelbrock? Even the Shelby valve covers didn't exist in the day, they came years later. Most of the early cars ran modified stock covers with dual breathers and gold paint. It's a nice car in it's own right, but no more an authentic recreation than the typical roadster.

Most of the Cobras sold were street trim with undercar exhaust and chrome bumpers. These days, that is a rare build, and largely looked down on. Most buyers go all out with an over the top 427 S/C ankle burning rubber ripping monster. That's what sells.

Dave could make all the true 289's he wanted and charge cost for them, they wouldn't sell, and it would drive him into bankruptcy. It's ironic, but the 427 S/C was what killed off Shelby American as a company because the public wouldn't buy it, and the 289 FIA is exactly in the same boat today. Dave's smart enough to know better. The Customer always thinks he's right, but that doesn't mean they buy what's right.

Ditch the chrome, paint the exhaust black, install a LeMans roof, it might be a bit closer. If we really want FIA, Dave should be making optional roofs. That's not going to happen. Nobody wants that car. It's all about big honking noisy roadsters.

[2FAST4U]

It's nice, but still needs changes as noted above. That's why I am going with a Mr. Bruce 289FIA body on an FFR chassis. Best of both worlds. Twenty-six days until I pull the triger

[David Hodgkins]

The FIA body I saw at FFR didn't look like that AT ALL:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4820&d=1317494608

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4819&d=1317494607

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4818&d=1317494606

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4817&d=1317494604

I know that I would have bought the FIA if it was available when I purchased my MKIII.

:)

[timmy318]

So it is alive.......!

[Dave Smith]

Guys,

Let me take a minute and update you all on the FIA program and the photos above (of the in-process mold plugs, are indeed accurate).

I'm not sure about this red 289 car mentioned above, but I believe that car is one of the early experiments we did. I THINK it was the one built by John Bryant locally here. What we did was use the Contemporary Cobra Company 289 molds (we had bought the assetts of Contemporary out of Mamaroneck NY). Anyway, it was a good 8 years ago and we asked a customer (John Bryant) to mount the 289 body to a FFR chassis. John did a nice job on the car, had to trim some aluminum, etc, but in the end the Contemporary 289 body was just wrong in several areas since they used their 427 modified as a substrate and it never really looked right. We had the discipline to NOT make the car because one of the clear design goals that I had articulated was that the car be period correct (one of the big reasons why folks WANT an FIA or slab-side 289 is authentic looks and differentiation from the 427.

Some years later we bought another 289 FIA and slab side car (molds and plugs). At the time (we were) uncertain of whether or not we would ever actually do a 289, since we had done the experiment on the Contemporary 289 (and I FIRMLY believed at the time that the 289 would simply displace the 427 and there would be no net gain of chassis sold... an example would be that if we launched a 289 we would go from selling 100 427's a year to selling 80 427's and 20 289's- no net change for alot of work and tooling) and without seeing the parts up close. Turns out the shapes were very accurate and we started to make plans for a limited edition 289 offering (thinking a production 289 would erode 427 sales) I think I said this in a 2008 newsletter.

Let me address the matter of the 289 FIA and slab-side cars directly.

I have indeed had plans to make two versions of the cars. We are the world's leader in the Cobra replica market, and even though I don't believe the 289 FIA/USRRC and slab-side, wire-wheel cars will make money, I DO believe they will keep the FFR brand on the leading edge and if we are the best Cobra Replica, we MUST do things that keep us in the lead.

The problem with the car up to now is that there has always been priorities larger. The reception of the 818 demands additional resources, and when I pull the wraps off the operational changes and company changes I've made since buying out my brother you guys are going to take a deep breath and wonder how we pulled it all off in such a short time!

It is a matter of time before we offer an FIA version. We will do it because we are the category leader. WHEN we do it we will do it RIGHT. We will do it in a way that is as well designed and engineered as everything else we do (read: you won't be cobbling together a body and left to your own to make a period-correct petty bar, center gas cap, proper hood scoop and other important details.)

WHEN is the real question. My real answer two years ago would have been right now. I have made some serious changes to our tactical plans as a result of SEMA and so the FIA/USRRC car and slab side models will be delayed yet again. A year, maybe 18 months... that's a good timeline to follow. It's what I thought a year ago and while things can change, I can tell you that at some time within the next 1-3 years we will have this model in our line-up. We may make this a limited production run and my gut is that IF we do that we will offer it exclusively to guys who already have BUILT our cars as a form of loyalty program.

Hope that helps.

[Dave Smith]

It's funny cause the first photo Dave Hodgkins posted above is of me working on the 818 plug in the background!.. The very model that ended up delaying the FIA development.

[2FAST4U]

I sooooooooooo want to build a period correct 289FIA!!

[Gumball]

Dave,

Thank you for taking time to provide a candid response and helping to scratch the itch that many of us have. Those who have built at least one of your cars have typically developed a rabid following of the FFR brand for the reasons you mention above, as well as many other reasons. I'm finally in the closing stages of a three-plus year build on Roadster #7074 and I appreciate that I'll have a couple of years off from building to enjoy this car before diving into another FFR project. When you do offer a 289 (hopefully a slabside), I know it would serve as a perfect follow-up project to my current build.

Again, thank you for being in touch with your customers and keeping us informed. Best of luck with all the changes as you move FFR into the future.

[Dave Smith]

Chris, You are most welcome. The truth is that I HAVE to always fight an inherent conflict that is also one of our greatest strengths. On one hand I must always consider the real world business reasons for each product decision and have the maturity to make tough calls and do what is best for the company and community. On the other hand, if we aren't making cars that we WANT ourselves, we will end up making cars for people we don't understand, or worse yet, we won't be in business for long. The balance is tough and as long as we are doing OK finacially, I should allow the WANT side of the business some additional lattitude and I soooo WANT a period-correct USRRC viking blue street/comp car and I also REEEEEALLY want a wire wheel, slab side, refined gentlemens street car in BRG with rear exit exhaust, understated with an original hi po 289, maybe webers..

The degree to which we can do this is not a question, the balance of selecting the right projects at the right time is alot like playing chess. There is no single winning move, but an overall strategy is required. I have a great job if my biggest challenge is deciding WHICH cool cars to make and when!

[carbon fiber]

british racing green!british racing green! my favorite. thanks for the info dave, and that body double situation sucks. all my future contracts will have a drop of blood from both parties for dna testing.

[Don]

Dave, well said. Although I hope you the best with the 818 project...it looked awesome at SEMA, I also join the ranks of those that sooooo WANT a 289 FIA!

[Mark Dougherty]

Dave and I have talked many times about the FIA and slab models.
He knows how much I would really enjoy building a FIA.

It would be incredible to build a FIA challange car. but Like all others He will make me wait also.
oh well someday.

[Silversmith]

OK! I'm Waiting! :( I understand the reason & congrats to FFR on the 818. Go get'em Dave! FIA Spec/street??? tic.. tic... tic......!!! :)

[LesMurray]

This is a subject that interests me greatly. I have been a lurker/dreamer on this and and the other site for several years now with a high degree of interest in building a roadster (or 818). It has been the clean lines and natural beauty of the street version and slab side 289 that really excite me. The completion of the slabside project by jolsen42 shows me that a slabside can be done using the F5R kit, though not without some modifications. Those modifications (different body, fuel tank, frame modifications, model-correct details) of a basic kit drive the prices up significantly such that an ERA is almost in reach (and without the logistic headaches).

If F5R were to offer the slabside version of their kit, this would become a no-brainer to me. Being a potential customer does not have me as much in touch with the community as those who own an F5R so I cannot provide any sense of the pent-up demand that this would tap in to. I do know that adding this model to the lineup would certainly increase the customer count by 1. Building a 427 street variant is also a consideration, but my options in terms of vendors is greater and does not guarranty a F5R customer. However, a slabside kit would make F5R unique (or more so) over its competitors by again providing a high-quality, accurate kit at a price point not being touched by the current market.

I guess I am just making sure to let Dave know that there are prospective customers out in the market who are very interested in this product (slabside 289 car) and I personally believe more of the vendors are noticing this as well, i.e. Superformance and AC Cars both just releasing slabside models and ERA having a few already sold and delivered.

OK, done with that. Now back to the sidelines...

[CobraDreaming]

It's funny cause the first photo Dave Hodgkins posted above is of me working on the 818 plug in the background!.. The very model that ended up delaying the FIA development.

Stinking 818. :)

[David Hodgkins]

By request, I've cleaned up this thread and am re-opening it.

Carry on.

:)

[mrmustang]

Dave,

As always, a pleasure conversing with you tonight, you have restored my faith in humanity.

Bill S.

PS: Beware, "Da Bunnies" may be visiting you soon :D :D :D

[Dave Smith]

I should not have mentioned the source of the second 289 mold and apologize for adding my personal opinion.

I was simply trying to explain the business and personal reasons behind my thought process and launch plans (or delays thereof) of the 289 FIA and slab-side roadster project that I mentioned as far back as our 2008 Newsletter. I make decisions about products and configurations with such careful thought. I ALWAYS consider the fact that our success or failure affects more than just me and the hard working people at Factory Five, it affects the suppliers and customers, and related companies and community as well. As much fun as it truly is running Factory Five, it is also a serious responsibility to be charged with it's leadership and stewardship and to be fully accountable for the results... Still, I've been doing it for 15+ years and it is a familiar weight and I shoulder it well.

Your candor and ideas have always been a great help to me, and at the most difficult times, the genuine friendship and council given to me so freely by so many of you guys has made a huge difference.

Yeah, we'll have a period-correct 289 USRRC Replica that Dan Gurney would be proud to drive and that will faithfully continue the tradition of these cars. We'll also have a slab-side, wire wheel, 289 street car that'll make the most ardent purist reach for a big tall glass of Factory Five Kool-aid! Oh yeah!

[LesMurray]

We'll also have a slab-side, wire wheel, 289 street car that'll make the most ardent purist reach for a big tall glass of Factory Five Kool-aid! Oh yeah!

Where did I leave my checkbook?

[timmy318]

Where did I leave my checkbook?

I don't know..... You might need to check at FFR near the 289 section :p!

[vinsand]

Where do I send my $99 so I can be first on the 289 list? The 818 is cool but I bet the list will be longer than the pre-orders for the 818!

[timmy318]

Where do I send my $99 so I can be first on the 289 list? The 818 is cool but I bet the list will be longer than the pre-orders for the 818!

It's not out yet :(!!! BUT whenever it comes out, I can say for sure no matter what state my 818 is in my dad and I will definitely order a 289!!!!!! Even if it has to sit in its boxes for awhile while we complete the 818 :D!