Frame Picture

[Karlo]

My assumption is that this is frame they will be using. I notice the the roll hoop will be SCCA / Race compliant.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/F5%20contest%20media/frame4_drawing.jpeg

[Cooluser23]

I hope so. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one that wants to daily drive this on the street and take it to an occasional track day.

I hope the final car has a windshield, so it may be street legal in California.

[Benji]

I thought that might be the frame as well...

Similarity to K1 Attack frame?

http://www.halerconcepts.com/attack/frame6.jpg


I like the centre diagonal braces as well, could give rise to a similar centre tunnel to the K1 Attack:

http://yaxay.com/stuff/k1pics/IMAGE_112.jpg

Not a bad thing in my opinion!! Hmmmm.....

http://www.halerconcepts.com/images/attackwire.gif


Sorry about the HUGE image.

[RedJoker]

There are a couple diagonals missing from that drawing. I know it's not a CAD drawing but I couldn't help but do a few mental load path tracings and diagonal checks. :D

(I know I'm not the only one. Admit it guys...)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Well if that's it there won't be doors 'cause there are tubes where they would be...and there is a tube running from the sides down to the center right about where driver and passenger's legs would be...and there is another tube running fore & aft and downward from the roll bar "X" that is where the shifter would be...so, no, I don't think that is it!

Jeff

[GS guy]

Agreed with your assessment Jeff.
Also, sure doesn't look like enough room to slot the motor behind the cockpit. The Subaru is like a big box that has to fit in there. The engine bay needs to be shaped like a bigger box to accommodate it! Remember too the exhaust comes straight out the bottom, where's it gonn'a go? Under the rear bottom rail? I've already encountered these issues! :-)
Jeff

[Oppenheimer]

Agreed with your assessment Jeff.
Also, sure doesn't look like enough room to slot the motor behind the cockpit. The Subaru is like a big box that has to fit in there. The engine bay needs to be shaped like a bigger box to accommodate it! Remember too the exhaust comes straight out the bottom, where's it gonn'a go? Under the rear bottom rail? I've already encountered these issues! :-)
Jeff

Well FFR is already building the 'go-kart' mock-up, so they obviously have these issues addressed. I think its as Jeff said, this just isn't the real frame.

[spaceywilly]

someone posted this on a thread at the GRM forum and this was Dave's reply:


That drawing IS an early chassis CAD file, however it has evolved a bit since then. The subaru running gear has been scanned and the suspension, drivetrain, steering has been designed. The engineers are working on the "go kart" right now and we will have driving data before the body is done. Once the contest is over and we announce winners, we will decide on the final shape (we may use all of, part of, or simply inspiration from the winners and submissions) and go rapidly to body shaping and molds, which will be made quickly due to our relationship with Solidworks and their 3-D support of this project.

Good luck to all you guys. We MAY release chassis drawings, but the engineering team is concerned (for good reason) that we may want to make changes and we don't want to slow down the team with customer scrutiny and feedback on a design that is undergoing testing. I think I can speak from a position of strength in saying that Factory Five's are known for their chassis design and so lets focus on a fun shape that will prove that a small company, with support from a hard-core racing/performance car community and creativity can do what big companies are unable to do!

[WhirlpoolBrewer]

I guess this throughs out the possibility of having a targa top? Dave did say that the frame is mostly final, but that implies some adjustments can still be made. So do you think the idea of a targa top is out all together or what?

[thebeerbaron]

I guess this throughs out the possibility of having a targa top? Dave did say that the frame is mostly final, but that implies some adjustments can still be made. So do you think the idea of a targa top is out all together or what?

I think it will depend on how the Factory Five and Solidworks teams interpret the winning design. If the winning design doesn't incorporate a targa and can't be made to easily, I doubt they'll restyle the whole thing just to add one. If the winning design leaves an obvious path to a targa, then you'll get your targa.

No design option is left out at this point, except minivan. So you could get your targa, depending on how the wind blows. If you really want a targa, sharpen up your pencils and send in a design!

[WhirlpoolBrewer]

I think it will depend on how the Factory Five and Solidworks teams interpret the winning design. If the winning design doesn't incorporate a targa and can't be made to easily, I doubt they'll restyle the whole thing just to add one. If the winning design leaves an obvious path to a targa, then you'll get your targa.

No design option is left out at this point, except minivan. So you could get your targa, depending on how the wind blows. If you really want a targa, sharpen up your pencils and send in a design!

Lol, you just might convince to. I'm no artist, but now that you've mentioned it, this could be my chance to get the car of my dreams... as long as I don't dream of minivans. Actually the idiot in me is suddenly inspired to design the worlds first two door MR minivan and submit it. I'll call it the microvan... Its gonna be the Worst. Design. Ever. :)

[AVIONX]

807Umm..... I might be crazy, but where are our legs suppossed to go? Right where your outboard leg would go there is a diagonal running from the perimeter frame rail diagonally down to the center of the cockpit. It seems impossible that there would not be a leg or a seat there right?

[Oppenheimer]

807Umm..... I might be crazy, but where are our legs suppossed to go? Right where your outboard leg would go there is a diagonal running from the perimeter frame rail diagonally down to the center of the cockpit. It seems impossible that there would not be a leg or a seat there right?

That is just the URV version (Unmanned Road Vehicle) . You drive it sitting at a remote terminal.

[Kc_Shane]

807Umm..... I might be crazy, but where are our legs suppossed to go? Right where your outboard leg would go there is a diagonal running from the perimeter frame rail diagonally down to the center of the cockpit. It seems impossible that there would not be a leg or a seat there right?

That cross bar will be under your knee. Don't stress it.

[Oppenheimer]

That cross bar will be under your knee. Don't STRESS it.

STRESS it, ha, good one!

[Olimk2]

If you follow this image, don't bother designing doors as well...tubing all the way!

[slopoke]

looks like a lesson in mad triangulation

[crackedcornish]

any plans to make the main frame with removable subframes like motorcycles and the WR3 V-Storm have?

this would make it a lot easier to repair any crash damage. It would also make swapping out the rear subframe/drivetrain mount when/if switching to a different powerplant very easy this way

[GS guy]

I like the idea of a "modular" frame too, but the big drawback is it adds unnecessary weight making the section detachable.
I think the better idea is to design the frame in a modular fashion on paper (or on the computer as it were) - such that different aft sections could be substituted during the build process. I'm imagining these different aft sections could be built in isolation and later shipped to repair accident damage, or even stockpiled so that as the main frame sections are rolling down the assembly line, the build sheet dictates which aft structure will be attached. "This first one here gets a Subaru.... The next one a VW TDI... and this last one is for a transverse Honda V6....." :-)

[crackedcornish]

I think the benefits of easily repairable/swappable subframes would outweigh any minor weight penalty that they would add to the chassis, especially if you consider the chassis could be designed now so that it will be much simpler to see different powerplants/drivetrains/suspensions used in the same basic structure in the future of cars that had been built previously.

and say for racing applications, it would also be possible to make such a subframe out of a different material, such as aluminum, making it lighter than the structure it would be replacing

[riptide motorsport]

Interesting and good idea about a sectional frame..............

[Oppenheimer]

I think a bolt on, modular subframes are a good idea, but may only be feasible for things like body mount points (to allow for different body styles, or for crash damage, etc.) I think even just that would be an awesome idea. The Motorcycle exmaple you cite, the subframe is for the seat area, body work, etc.

It just seems like a bolt-on subframe for something like the motor mounts or other stressed frame areas would require such a heavy-duty interface it would have a significant weight penalty.

I like GS guys idea of different subframes being welded in on the assembly line for different drivetrains, and the bolt-on subframes for body mounts and non-stressed areas that are likely fender-bender damage areas.

[crackedcornish]

I'm not familiar with the Subaru engine mounting solution, but if it's like a Porsche/VW style where the engine basically hangs off of the transaxle I'm sure some type of subframe could be built strong and light enough to do the job. In fact no matter what system of mounting is used I'm sure the FFR guys could engineer and build a satisfactory cradle for it.

The real question is...do they want to build the frame as a modular chassis after putting a lot of work into what they have done already?

[PhyrraM]

The Subaru is mounted like a traditional V8. Two mounts under the middle of the motor and on at the rear of the transmission.

Becasue they are FWD/AWD those 3 mounts are augmented by a torque control arm mounted longitudinally over the centerline of the transmission to the firewall.

[crackedcornish]

so Dave, have you given any thought to the use of sub frames, in the construction of the chassis for the 818?