Fitting Doors and Door Seals

[SCFFR]

Now that I have the windshield installed (but still adjusting), starting working on the doors. I realize that to properly fit the doors, you need to have whatever type of seal you are using installed. I don’t particularly like the door seals that came with the kit so looking at using the self-adhesive D-shape seal that I got from Mark at Breeze Automotive. Decided to stick the seal on the door instead of around the body opening but am certainly open to other suggestions.

Curious at to what seal you are using, how easy it is to apply and of course reapply after painting.

Thanks,

Ron

[michael everson]

Correct on both accounts. Although I think your better off not using the seal until its painted. The doors should fit properly with out the aid of the seal.
Mike

[rich grsc]

There is no need for the seal to set the door gap and fit. I didnt even think about it till after paint.

[MK4]

Same here you CAN fit the doors flush then after paint you add on the d seal.

Worked realy good for me and gavé a solid sound to the doors also.

Km 4

[AZPete]

When you are adjusting the doors you, of course, loosen the hinge bolts to move the door around. But you can also add washers to the hinge bolts to change the angle of the door front-back and top-bottom. Then, by adding or subtracting washers at the body mounts you can change the position of the body at the bottom of the door. It's tedious to get the doors right so plan one 6-pack per door.
Pete

[SCFFR]

Thanks guys for the information. Will remove the piece of seal I have stuck to the door and go ahead and get it fitted. Because the bottom of the driver's side door sticks out a good amount, will add some washers at the top between the door and the hinge. Definitely a full days job. Hopefully the second door will go quicker.

Does the same apply to the hood? Was going to use the same D-seal around the hood opening lip.

thanks,

Ron

[Jeff Kleiner]

I don't install seals for door fitting bit you will want it or the rubber bumpers in place for doing the hood. I like the D seal that Mike Everson offers for both the hood and door openings. I've always seen it applied to the doors themselves and not the openings. On the hood I've seen it done both ways but my preference is to apply the seal to the hood rather than the opening with the reason being that when the hood is closed the seal is not visible through the body seam. Personal preference though.


Although fitting them is tedious I have never used shims/washers between the doors and hinges. You are trying to strike a balance at 4 different places; the upper front of the door where it meets the cowl, the upper rear where it meets the rear cockpit opening, plus the lower front and lower rear. To further complicate things along the upper part of the doors we're dealing with both horizontal as well as vertical interfaces. Adjusting for one invariably affects at least one other. And people wonder why body men drink... I've had the best luck adjusting for the door tops first. While dealing with the top area of the doors do not completely ignore the lower door edge's intersection with the main body but keep in mind that the lower body can be moved in/out independently with little to no effect to the upper cockpit openings. On both Mk3 and Mk4 the passenger door was easier than the driver's side; once the adjustments were made to get the tops in order it just took a bit of outward movement to the lower body to have it meet the bottom edge of the door. On the other hand with the drivers side once the tops were fitting the bodies had to go in at the lower front corner of the doors and move out a great deal at the rear. Reports from other builders indicate that many have encountered the same. It just takes time and beer :)

Jeff

[skullandbones]

Jeff,

Thanks for the blow by blow detailed account of the door adjustment. I thought it was funny when you mentioned the thing about body men. The first job I ever had was at a small body shop. The guy turned out pretty nice paint and body work but only when he was drunk (seriously). My friend and I would prep the cars and the fellow would be in the office getting ready, so to speak. He would come down and spray it and leave. So I was expecting you to say, "I've had my best luck when........" but you did mention beer at the end (ha). LOL. Thanks, WEK.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Well....

This was just after shooting a gallon of Slick Sand

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2455.jpg

Cheers :)
Jeff

[SCFFR]

Thanks again for the information and drinking program.

Spent the entire day yesterday fitting the driver door - after removing the seal. As Jeff had mentioned in a previous post, you might need to push in the body side under the front of the bottom of the door but pull the body sides out near the rear bottom of the door. I had exactly this situation. Like many, I had cut 1/4" x 1" slots in the flange and drilled and tapped the square tube under the flange and used 1/4-28 x 1" button head stainless screws to hold the flange in place.

Took Jeff's advice and started at the top of the door but whenever I got the top in a decent position, the bottom of the door at the rear was sticking out about 1/2" and the front bottom edge of door sticking in about 3/8". Added to this misalignment, the gap at the bottom of the door was 1/2" even when the top wasn't level at the top rear of the door (see pics).

Will spend the day doing more adjusting. I'm sure I can get it to work but I'm getting the feeling it's going to take quite a bit of filler to get a straight line between the door surface and the body sides. Looks like I’m also going to have to build the bottom edge of the door about 3/8" with glass and then cut it back to the right gap.

Let the fun begin!!!

131361313713138

[Jeff Kleiner]

Yeah Ron, thats what they do. After adjusting to optimize the door to body interface at the top it often leaves the door in at the lower front and out at the lower rear. By pulling the rear rocker panel outward it is possible to make the body meet the door at the rear but that still leaves the door sucked in at the front.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2310.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2299.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2314.jpg

On Steve's #7276 Mk4 these are the general areas that needed work to match contours at the driver's door:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2317.jpg

Here is how it ended up before the second round of Slick Sand:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2403.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2453.jpg

And after:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2459.jpg

Carry on and good luck!

Jeff

[SCFFR]

Thanks Jeff.

Starting filling the low spots on the door today and amazingly I'm putting it in exactly the same spots that you did. I would say that we could swap door and they would fit just about perfect. The door is the lowest at the top where the door meets the cowl. It's going to take some significant filler there. Hopefully I can get all of the filler down before the weekend. Weather should be warm enough for me to get a coat or two of Slick Sand on the doors.

Ron

[SCFFR]

Well, after about three days of work (after it warmed up in the garage), I think I'm pretty much finished with the driver's side door. Took Jeff's advie and got the top lined up with the body as much as possible and worked my way down. The biggest area requiring work was the front lower edge of the door which was sticking inside the opening about 1/4". I did use some washers between the lower door bolts and hinge to help push that edge out without messing up the rear of the door. Also had an issue with the top rear end of the door. The profile of the door was more rounded while the body opening was almost flat on the top. After working it with several coats of Rage Gold filler, I got the two profile to match up pretty good. Will get a couple coats of Slick Sand on the door this weekend since the temperature will be in the 70's.

Thanks again to Jeff, Mike and everyone else for their help. Hopefully the passenger door will be a little less challenging.

13265

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looking good!


Hopefully the passenger door will be a little less challenging.



I bet you'll find that it is.

Cheers,
Jeff

[frank23]

For fitting door, Firstly open the car door . After that pinch the seal with your fingers and pull up. At this stage there is need to clean the door frame where the old door seal had been attached. New seal clips should be sanded lightly with emery cloth. Finally stretched the new door seal around the door frame.