Windshield Installed But Have a Question

[SCFFR]

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I thought I would take a break from trimming and sanding fiberglass and spend the day (and it was ALL day) getting the windshield installed since I need to have it in place before I start on the doors. I had searched all of the forum posts I could find to see what things I needed to do and those things to avoid. All went pretty well once I got the slots cut in the body (my kit came with no cut outs but the slots were marked). I trimmed the ends of the support bars as needed and put some masking tape on the inside of the bars to make them easy to mark for drilling.

As with just about everything on these cars, there are many opinions on exactly how things should be done. I read that the idea angle on the windshield (as measure along the door line) was 53 degrees. I also read that the distance from the top of the frame to the edge of where the body rolls down over the rear bulkhead should be around 36". Regardless, I had several targets to shot for.

The first thing I did notice was that the bottom edge of the windshield frame has a smooth consistent curve which pretty much matches that of the cowl until you get to the ends where the cowl flattens out at the fender tops. No matter what angle I moved the windshield, the ends of the frame were sticking into the fiberglass and holding the rest of the frame off the cowl. I tried the 36" distance idea but when I did this the support bars were at such an angle that they were completely out of line with the 3/4" holes in the support brackets under the cowl. I guess I figured that when the support brackets were designed, that the holes should pretty much line up with the bars attached to the windshield. Certainly at this point, you couldn’t get any type of tool in there to move or make those holes bigger. So, I positioned the windshield so that the ½" holes that had to be drilled in the support bars were pretty much in the center of the bars.

In the end, I ended up with the windshield at about a 52 degree angle and it looks good but I’m really not satisfied with my installation. There are no gaps between the cowl and the rubber seal on the bottom of the frame, but the frame is about ½" above the cowl the whole length of the windshield except at the ends. I even had to grind a little of the fiberglass out at the very ends to help the windshield set just a little lower.

I’ve looked at plenty of pictures of cars and how their windshields sit. Some look like the frame in very close to the cowl and the rubber seal is almost flat. On others you can see a gap between the cowl and the rubber seal but the majority are in between.

Just wondering if I did something grossly wrong during my installation. The installation looks okay but I would really like for the frame to be down and closer to the cowl.

Any suggestions or recommendation?

As always, thanks for your help.

Ron

[SCFFR]

Sorry for the duplicate post. My connection crashed when I first tried to post.

Ron

[michael everson]

That does seem a bit unusual. All my installs (there have been many) seem to be jus tthe opposite of what you have. How much space is there between the body and the curved bar that holds the dash? Check this in the center where the mirror mounts. It should be around a 1/2 inch or so. FFR supplies spacers the go in there to mount the mirror.
Are the windshield arms touching the body at all when you tighten them. There should be no contact that could manipulate the way the body fits.
Mike

[Scott L]

I found this was a two plus person job. I needed someone to apply some down force on the windsield to get it right - Pushing the center of the winshield / cowl down toward the dash hoop. Gravity was not enough to get everything seated correctly.

[SCFFR]

Mike,

Just checked under the cowl and there appears to be about 3/8" of clearance between the top of the dash loop bar and the body. The bulb seal on the firewall is pretty much completely compressed so it appears the body is pushed down as far as it can go. It doesn't appear that if I push down on the windshield that it can go down any further.

Should I add some spacer between the body and the dash loop to push the cowl up closer the the windshield frame???

Also, the bars are not contacting the body anywhere. As a matter of fact, will probably have to do a little filling around one of the opening.

Thanks,

Ron

[Bob Cowan]

I set the windshield angle to match the angle of the side curtains. For my car, that's about 45* at the center of the windshield

[Rootbeer Roadster]

Mike,

Just checked under the cowl and there appears to be about 3/8" of clearance between the top of the dash loop bar and the body. The bulb seal on the firewall is pretty much completely compressed so it appears the body is pushed down as far as it can go. It doesn't appear that if I push down on the windshield that it can go down any further.

Should I add some spacer between the body and the dash loop to push the cowl up closer the the windshield frame???

Also, the bars are not contacting the body anywhere. As a matter of fact, will probably have to do a little filling around one of the opening.

Thanks,

Ron

Ron

I had to open up my holes to prevent the bars from hitting the body. I had to do this after paint due to a poor installation by my painter. If the slot gets too big to cover with the factory trim plates you can make some from .125 aluminum.

Large slot to prevent interference.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc170/silverstreak02/IMG_2540.jpg

Custom trim plate hides it well.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc170/silverstreak02/IMG_2828.jpg

Jeff

[SCFFR]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback and information.

Just to see if there was any impact, I made a 1/2" spacer to go between the cowl and the dash hoop (I did check the mirror box and there were no spacers included). Anyway, the spacer did push the cowl up and take up some of the space between it and the windshield frame and looked better and the seal fit "flatter". However, the spacer did change the arc of the cowl in relation to the dash loop (higher in the middle) so I need to see how this will impact the installation of the dash. I was hoping to have the screws that attach the dash to the loop follow the arc but with the spacer in, the ends of the cowl are below the bottom edge of the loop and the middle is close to the top of the loop if you know what I mean. I temporarily glues some spacers to the back of the dash last night to hold it 1/2" from the bottom of the loop so will see how it sits this morning. Definitely a work in progress.

Ron

[edwardb]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback and information.

Just to see if there was any impact, I made a 1/2" spacer to go between the cowl and the dash hoop (I did check the mirror box and there were no spacers included). Anyway, the spacer did push the cowl up and take up some of the space between it and the windshield frame and looked better and the seal fit "flatter". However, the spacer did change the arc of the cowl in relation to the dash loop (higher in the middle) so I need to see how this will impact the installation of the dash. I was hoping to have the screws that attach the dash to the loop follow the arc but with the spacer in, the ends of the cowl are below the bottom edge of the loop and the middle is close to the top of the loop if you know what I mean. I temporarily glues some spacers to the back of the dash last night to hold it 1/2" from the bottom of the loop so will see how it sits this morning. Definitely a work in progress.

Ron

Ron -- This is a general comment about this thread and also the other you have about fitting doors. With all due respect to everyone that has replied to you, I would slow down a bit. Adding spacers here and there, adding washers to the hinges (as suggested in the other thread) should be the last resort. These kits are well engineered (and no I don't work for FFR) and any time it seems that I have to add or take away something that's not in the instructions, I stop and try to dig a little deeper. For sure there are variations and differences between builds. But what you're describing here just doesn't sound right. You're trying to get the windshield to fit "better." But shimming the body, and now causing the dash to not fit properly, just shouldn't be necessary. Jeff (a very well recognized contributor to this forum) already said the windshield looks pretty typical. I have to say for my Mk3 it's also about the same as yours.

The bigger question for me, if the windshield and doors aren't fitting properly is whether your body is sitting properly. A very common recommendation is to set the body on the chassis without the bulb seal in place. Then trace around with a felt marker (about 3/8 of an inch or so) on all the aluminum to make sure it's all roughly the same. It's not unusual at all for something to be a little high and cause the whole body to not fit down properly. Your comment that bulb seal is crushed in one area but not so much in another is perhaps a clue. On my Mk3, the firewall to body fit needed a little material removed. Maybe something like that is happening with yours? Hard to say, but this basic check may be something to consider, before shimming and tweaking and causing other unintended consequences.

And adding washers to the door hinges I've never heard of. There is a ton of adjustment in the hinges just the way they're supplied. Washers in the side body mounts, on the other hand, are common to get the body and door alignment as good as possible. Perhaps there's some confusion there? On the other hand, you don't say Mk3 or Mk4. If a Mk4, no washers. Just move the body in and out and pin through the bottom lip.

I've gotten a ton of great information on this and the other forum. It would have been very hard to complete my Mk3 without it. And I'll be using a lot of that information for my new Mk4 build, and probably have a lot of new questions. On the other hand, I received and have seen information that wasn't as good as others. That's the nature of an open forum like this, so nothing wrong with that and certainly not meant to insult anyone. All of us respond based on our own knowledge, experience, etc. But just a general suggestion that when you ask questions, carefully consider the answers, and then make sure the advice is good and fits your situation. As someone told me once (somewhat sarcastically of course) not everything that's on the internet is true. Maybe including the content of this message... But for your consideration FWIW.

[michael everson]

I have have found in most of the kits that I built, the spacers for the rear view mirror are in the side mirror box. Dont ask.
They are white plastic round spacers with a hole in the middle. One for each screw.

[skullandbones]

I like what edwardb said. There are some tried and true ways to go on these builds. Body fitment might be one that requires a little more adherence to those tried and true methods. Personally, I'm glad for the thread and the diversity in the conversation because it is really making me think of things I would not have been aware of without it. So as I approach the point that you ( SCFFR) are at this time, it really should help. It sounds like you are on a mission to finish this in a week. Maybe that's your speed and that's good but I think this is one of the most critical times and will reflect what people see more than many things we have done. So I'm slowing down a little and taking it all in. Hope I can give some good feedback especially on the windshield when I get there. Thanks for the great discussion so far!!! WEK.

[SCFFR]

Thanks again guys for all of the useful information. Edward - you are 100% correct. I try to take all of the information and "test" it and then decide if it's something I want to use. I did try the spacer which made the frame seal fit better to messed up the arc of the cowl in relation to the dash so the spacer is gone.
Also I've been retired for years so I have plenty of time to work on the car. With the weather cooler, I'm spending about 8 hours a day in the garage. Although it might seem that I'm working on one area one day and jumping to something else the next, that's not the case. I try to ask questions several days in advance with the understanding that all of the members on the forum are busy and it might take a few days for a response. Hopefully by the time I do start on whatever mini project I asked about, I've gotten several responses from many of you experts.

It took me two full days just to get the edge on the trunk lid trimmed and a day and a half to get the windshield fitted. The doors will definitely take longer. I asked about the spacers between the doors and hinge since this appears to be an accepted method in many of the articles I have read in Hot Rod, Car Craft, etc. With my hinge pushed out to the very end of adjustment, the front edge of my door is still about 3/16" below the body edge. I would have to either remove the hinge and make the adjusting slot longer, build up the door edge with 3/16" with filler or add a shim between the door and hinge. I tried the shim first and it appears to work fine.

I guess I'm just excited about working on the body after spending 10 months on just the chassis. Also, I built custom sailboats many years ago in Florida so its good to get back to working with fiberglass.

Thanks again,

Ron