Gel coat or no paint body?

[wallace18]

How many would accept gel coat instead of no paint? What if gel coat kit would be released earlier? I would prefer gel coat. I want to paint and customize. I am more happy working in fiberglass. I think it is easier and better to repair and touch up in case of damage. What's your opinions?

[Mechie3]

I don't know enough about either.

[VD2021]

How many would accept gel coat instead of no paint? What if gel coat kit would be released earlier? I would prefer gel coat. I want to paint and customize. I am more happy working in fiberglass. I think it is easier and better to repair and touch up in case of damage. What's your opinions?

Great question.

I'm up in the air. I would so like to have a kit where there's no fg and gel-coat dust to contend with as it will keep the kit fun (unless you like to itch) and cut the total build time.

On the other hand I like being able to modify/customize and I would hate to have to do that to a freshly painted panel.

So, right now, I would prefer gel-coated fg panels because there are quite a few items I plan to change.

[Xusia]

This is kinda pointless because Dave has already stated production cars will use the "colored" thermoformed plastic panels. As they sit, those panels can be left unpainted, or paint can be applied easily - the best of both worlds! If you really want fiberglass, perhaps they can make your body out of that as a one off, though I'd imagine they'd have to charge more. Dave has stated the thermoformed panels are a key component in meeting their target kit price, presumably because they are less labor intensive than the hand laid fiberglass they've used up until now.

[VD2021]

Forums are for discussion, right?:confused:

If we limited topics to what's "pointless", we would only have five things to talk about.:D

[Xusia]

True (and I do love discourse!). But Dave has already been very specific about these particular things, so if we aren't limiting ourselves to at least the practical, we should add a "what if the 818 were a truck" to the discussion! LOL

[wallace18]

I remember Dave stating that he was not happy so far with the no paint panels. And I believe he mentioned gel coat may be what is intially offered. I may be wrong. But I will research some threads to see for sure. I was just putting out a question. Since most of what they offer now is gel coat I don't see how it could be more exspensive. But I admit I am not very knowledgeable in the cost vs one or the other. I do know fiberglass is easy for all to fix and get at the local auto parts. Colored panels like I had on some Buells I owned were a pain to fix and match with paint. JMO.

[Xusia]

I could be mistaken, no doubt. As far as cost, there is a larger upfront investment in the tooling to produce thermoformed panels, but once that investment is made, each panel can be made for less cost than a comparable hand laid fiberglass panel. That's how they are going to be able to offer this kit for $9900.

As far as working with the panels, you are absolutely correct. Most of the time you don't repair such a panel, you just replace it. For me, that's perfect - I'd rather have a new panel than repair (and repaint!) an existing one. But of course, to each his own! :)

[VD2021]

True (and I do love discourse!). But Dave has already been very specific about these particular things, so if we aren't limiting ourselves to at least the practical, we should add a "what if the 818 were a truck" to the discussion! LOL

No worries and I like how you stated it.

Gotta love a good discussion. Whether or not it can come to pass :).

[VD2021]

Most of the time you don't repair such a panel, you just replace it. For me, that's perfect - I'd rather have a new panel than repair (and repaint!) an existing one. But of course, to each his own! :)

That's a really good point. That's time and $$ saved.

[metalmaker12]

That's a really good point. That's time and $$ saved.

I like the idea of no paint, but hope a good amount of colors are offered

[Kalstar]

Either way is fine by me so long as there are no seams and it is finish ready, my car is getting wrapped. Do it yourself and $500 is finished product. If you want change, your not locked into a color, pull it off and change to your new fancy.

[carbon fiber]

fiberglass no question. accepts modification, easy to repair.

[timmy318]

All I hope is that they offer a variety of colors when they start shipping the 818 out. I plan on painting my 818 but I just want to see how the thermo-panels will hold up. Gel-coat would be a nice option but no-paint body panels are my favorite due to me not wanting to add anything to the 818. I only want to cut some of the rear portion of the 818 out to make it look more like on of VMan7s' designes: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12963&d=1351811641

[Jo3sh]

I think the difference between gelcoat and no-paint panels is a false dichotomy. Westfield, a UK maker of 7esque kits, offers no-paint gelcoat panels in a variety of colors and you can mix'n'match to your content.

PDF link: http://www.manikllc.com/brochures/Sport_Component_kit.pdf - see page 4 for the color selection.
Here a Colorado-based company that sells the Miata-powered Westy kit - play with the configurator to see the variety of color combinations you can make: http://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/configurator.php

Honestly, I am fine with either gelcoat or thermoplastic panels, as long as they look as good as I know Dave Smith will want them to. At present, my preference is for white, as I plan to add painted or cut-vinyl details, but that's subject to change.

[Silvertop]

I remember Dave stating that he was not happy so far with the no paint panels. And I believe he mentioned gel coat may be what is intially offered. I may be wrong. But I will research some threads to see for sure. I was just putting out a question. Since most of what they offer now is gel coat I don't see how it could be more exspensive. But I admit I am not very knowledgeable in the cost vs one or the other. I do know fiberglass is easy for all to fix and get at the local auto parts. Colored panels like I had on some Buells I owned were a pain to fix and match with paint. JMO.

We should keep in mind that even if gel-coated fiberglass is selected for early (or even all) 818 production, this does not necessarily mean that painting will be required. Gel coats CAN be produced in many colors, and can be finish coats.

[skullandbones]

We should keep in mind that even if gel-coated fiberglass is selected for early (or even all) 818 production, this does not necessarily mean that painting will be required. Gel coats CAN be produced in many colors, and can be finish coats.

Exactly! Just remember where you've seen this technology for years: boats, boats,........boats! They've been doing it for years and the finishes are bullet proof when done correctly. I know that FFR has a learning curve for the new process which ever one they choose but they could bring in some help with marine fabrication experience if they go that route. I think this process is the single most critical process to cause FFR to miss the June 2013 release date.

WEK.

[Hammer-Dan]

What is the fit n finish of the no paint body panels? I would hope that everything lines up? With that in mind will this stuff hold up to sitting in the sun.. IE warp/deform.. I don't know enough about any of this so I am just asking. I am not afraid to built these kits, but the body work and fit/finish is what holds me back.

[Xusia]

Hi Hammer-Dan,

Thermoformed panels have been used for years on sportbikes - you should have no fear or trepidation in regards to them. Like any finish, they aren't completely bulletproof and can fade over time if not cared for properly. With proper care they will look very good for a very long time.

As for the kit itself, it is unlikely it will require any body work. Dave has stated he is extremely impressed with the fit of the panels, so I wouldn't worry about this either!

I hope this helps. :)

[Hammer-Dan]

It does... I have been toying with the idea of the cobra mk4 and then the Hot Rod and now the 818.. Every time I think I am ready I refrain because I am afraid of the body work and it looking like crap.. I would end up having to pay someone else to do it and no idea what that runs.

[Xusia]

Based on that comment, the 818 is probably what you should look closely at. Between the it, the Mk IV, and the 33 Rod, it should require the least in terms of body work AND total assembly hours.

[Silvertop]

Based on that comment, the 818 is probably what you should look closely at. Between the it, the Mk IV, and the 33 Rod, it should require the least in terms of body work AND total assembly hours.

For sure. Not counting donor car disassembly and donor parts preparation (which can be largely eliminated with the use of a donor palette rather than a whole car), building a no-paint 818 will be essentially a bolt-together project. The SWAG I remember seeing suggested about 200 hours to put the thing together. And even if it takes twice as long as that -- that makes it is a quick build! And you know it will look good when you're done!

[Hammer-Dan]

Dis-Assembly and Assembly are the fun parts of the project. I have worked on several cars ranging from DSM's, Civic's, S-10s, to drag raced Mustangs. Everything has been tear apart, replace, mod to an extent but nothing was ever body work. I left everything stock appearance.. That said with the 818 as paint-less panels I have a friend who's business I backed a few years ago and he does the digital printing on vinyl. He does everything from signs, cars, trucks, boats, and everything in between. That would be an option to have a very custom look to the car.

I look forward to doing something in the future, just have to make up my mind and dive in.

[carbon fiber]

you can color-sand and buff gel coat panels, but they have to be almost perfect out of the molds and with NO voids. there's no way i could sand and buff the gelcoat on the gtm. hopefully they've spent more time on the 818.

[ccgillett]

I really hope the kit comes with no paint required. We all know that you can "spend as much as you want" on a paint job, but even a crappy Maco-quality paint job will add a couple grand to the final price. There is precedent for no-paint bodies on much higher end kits, see the Ultima for example: http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/Gallery.aspx?f=gtrgallery2#content/gtrgallery/gtr26.jpg (and other photos in that gallery).

I'd really love the 818 to be a pure home-build kit that i can do without needing outside specialists like painters. JMO....

[VD2021]

For sure. Not counting donor car disassembly and donor parts preparation (which can be largely eliminated with the use of a donor palette rather than a whole car), building a no-paint 818 will be essentially a bolt-together project. The SWAG I remember seeing suggested about 200 hours to put the thing together. And even if it takes twice as long as that -- that makes it is a quick build! And you know it will look good when you're done!

I concur.

Judging the data that has been put out thus far. This should be an "~almost bolt together kit" for anyone who has built an FFR kit and close to that for the knowledgeable wrench-turner. Definitely a huge positive and will keep the entire build enjoyable for anyone who is not a body/paint guy.